Female Only Server

<sigh> I wish they'd say something now cuz I have to save up for several months if they're doing it.

The whole time I was reading this thread, I was remembering an article I recently saw that surprised even the author.

The tricky business of being a woman on Vent

--NT

Anyone trying to date anyone online is a hassle. There is only one server where I play as my proper gender. On all the rest, I like getting a break, and not having to worry about dating politics.

Even if it's not outright harassment, it can get really awkward if you're in a SG or something, and somebody has misread your ques. ... Which still happens when I'm playing the other gender too..... I may need to rethink this whole strategy.

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Originally Posted by sleestack As someone who got my education in the 70s and 80s and doesn't think the world revolves around Europe, I'd like to ask...overgeneralize much?

You're overgeneralizing my statement.

I didn't say "all old timers" I said "only old timers". There's a difference. "Only" implies that no one outside the group does something (which is ... of course.. still a stretch), however it in no way suggests the number of people inside the group is large.

I said it in answer to another posters overgeneralization that white male history is overwhelmingly taught in schools. I was merely suggesting that the time when that was true has passed. I didn't mean to (inadvertently) imply that those old timers who were taught the other version would not be smart enough to learn better later in life. Just that some of them may have been taught the other version originally.

Yeah, anyone trying to put the moves on someone while in a video game is really being inconsiderate.

I mean... if two people form a connection and a friendship that truly does extend beyond the video game and their characters (beyond a role-played relationship) and enough time has gone by that the two people are really getting to know each other... totally different story...

But to just try and put moves on, hit on, ask out, etc. someone from casual video game playing (or even from only sharing in some role-play together [as I have certainly seen that happen]), is just completely inconsiderate and, honestly, often speaks to some pretty big problems and disconnects with the person in the wrong.

Logging on to a video game is not saying that I am here to find a partner, be hit on, looking for a date or any such thing.
And I find it to be a breach in trust of fellow video-gamers (again, especially role-players) when someone takes that tremendous leap in thinking that it is appropriate.

Half the time, you're probably dealing with a happy spouse, a loving parent or just someone emotionally developed enough to not be looking for love in all the wrong places.

All due respect to those who have found love through playing a video game together. Some have even found it by meeting at bars too... but it doesn't make most of the other attempts any less of utter failures.

On-Topic Rant provided to you by some odd notion to type this that I have no explanation for!

P.S. I am taken.

This thread makes me kinda sad.

tl;dr? YOU MADE ME AGREE WITH GG



Most of the responses have fallen into the standard stuff that I see thrown at the female gender when complaints arise about how they are treated.

"Well, men are just gonna be that way. It's how they are. Get used to it."

"You should just hide who you are"

"Well, what about the MEN who are getting harassed, huh? You can't start a thread about women getting harassed without also talking about the men!"

"Lulz, pics"

"Just report them, there's nothing we can really do about the existence of jerks."

And the best of all.

"Well, it's your fault that you get harassed for letting slip you're a girl."



No. No no nonnonononooo.

What the HECK people!? This is a game about superheroes! How do we let this stuff slide!?

From what I've seen, the entire culture seems to say "You have no right to stand up for yourself. Either flee and hide yourself, sneak around in the shadows and dare not let a sliver of light reveal your true self lest ye be torn apart by the beasts." It's not just a problem on any one internet forum or even gaming as a whole.

How come we don't go after the beasts? How come it's always left on the shoulders of the victims to fight the endless tides alone? Not a single person here(That I saw) offered to help the OP, she was just told that her ideas were stupid and she should deal with her problems on her own. There was no sympathy, no empathy. Just, "No you're dumb. Get over it."

We're creating yet another micro-culture where women who speak out against being treated like garbage get yelled at for speaking out. Not everyone here was doing it overtly, but the majority was at least letting it slide. And letting it slide is even worse in my eye. It means there's no hope.

This sort of thread will pop up again some day. And when it does I bet I will see the same responses. Again telling people that it's your fault you got harassed for being you. Next time, you should change who you are or hide it.

Even other women who pop in to say "I don't have a problem with this stuff", which is about as useful as saying "Well, I've never seen a polar bear, so NO one must have seen one." Or worse yet, "Suck it up like I do."

No! No. We do not DO that. You do not "Suck it up." When, in the history of history, has "Shut up and be quiet" made harassment stop? All it does is encourage the jerks, 'cause no one ever stands up to them they feel they get to do what they want and get away with it. BECAUSE THEY GET AWAY WITH IT.

Do you know how enraged I am at this thread?! DO YOU?! IT MADE ME AGREE WITH GOLDEN GIRL! ARGH!

Ok, calm down... *sigh*


How about this. A set of guidelines on how to deal with sexism in games. I'll write it right here and now.


If you yourself are harassed? I see two major options. If it is by a random stranger entirely through /tells or some other untraceable random harassment. Tell them that what they are saying is not welcome, do not send further tells. Then /ignore + /petition. If you are instead harassed by /tells inside a team or an SG or a Vent server. Do not let it slide. Make sure that the group knows what this person is doing. And also send in petitions and /ignore as needed. Silence is death. Silence is approval of what is, has, and will be done. That is how it has always been and how it will always be. The silence cannot continue. This applies mostly


If you see someone harassing someone else. Do two things. First? Say something. Tell the bugger to bugger off, tell them they're being a jerk and they need to stop. This shows the victim that they are not alone and it shows the harasser that they can't get away with that. Second? Do something. Petition, kick them from the team, kick them from the SG, kick them from the Vent server. Whatever, but do not make hollow statements you are not willing to back up. The above guideline should never go uncontested. If someone says "Hey, leave me alone." There should be a chorus of voices agreeing. Not silence.


If you hear someone get "outed," and phrasing it that way makes me sad, do not say "Wow, are you REALLY a girl!?" Just say "Okay." Do not, i shouldn't have to explain this, do not oggle or boggle over them. There is nothing magical here. Move on. Don't even make the single off-hand joke. And if you see others going at it? Tell them to stop, that becomes harassment in a nano-second. See the previous guideline for more details.
There's nothing special about being one 50% of the population. If they were hiding it and told you they were something and later became "outed" willingly or otherwise? THEY HAD A REASON FOR HIDING. Respect it, maybe in a casual or private moment you can ask about it. But never pressure, never badger. It's none of your business. And it sure has no place in the actual gameplay situations. It's off-topic and easily causes a cascade of questions, accusations, insults, "jokes" and other fun things that all build an environment that makes people want to flee and never return. Don't start it. Stop it if you see it.

I only have a few points to make here.

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Originally Posted by SDragon "You should just hide who you are"

There is a difference between hiding who you are, and not advertising who you are.

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Originally Posted by SDragon How come it's always left on the shoulders of the victims to fight the endless tides alone?

You are only a victim if you wish to be a victim.

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Originally Posted by SDragon Not a single person here(That I saw) offered to help the OP, she was just told that her ideas were stupid and she should deal with her problems on her own. There was no sympathy, no empathy. Just, "No you're dumb. Get over it."

You were asserting your prerogative of selective reading then.

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Originally Posted by all_hell It's already against the rules to harass people. Report the offender and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by Bright How about we just report and/or ignore list the creeps?

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Originally Posted by Xzero45 Don't give out personal info. Toss creeps on the ignore list and avoid them. Just treat them like you would any other troll, because trolls will go anywhere, including a female-only server.

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Originally Posted by Shadow_Kitty Ignore him. There's an ignore list that will help you in that respect. Petition him. GMs will look into the matter and take action. Find a good gender-mixed supergroup. In a close circle of friends, people rarely overstep like this, because there is a self-policing habit in a group. Educate people. It won't help you now, of course, but the next generation may be more aware of gender issues.

Just to list a few of the helpful suggestions put forth on the first page of this thread. The one I used a lot when I was harassed in high school for being different was /ignore. They got tired of attempting to annoy a person and getting no reaction in response and went away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDragon We're creating yet another micro-culture where women who speak out against being treated like garbage get yelled at for speaking out. Not everyone here was doing it overtly, but the majority was at least letting it slide. And letting it slide is even worse in my eye. It means there's no hope.

What I saw was a person, who was informed that their suggestion for a segregated server was not the best idea. Granted, it wasn’t phrased in a politically correct manner. But then, color, gender or religion is not the first thing I look at when judging the merits of a suggestion, or a person for that matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDragon If you yourself are harassed? I see two major options. If it is by a random stranger entirely through /tells or some other untraceable random harassment. Tell them that what they are saying is not welcome, do not send further tells. Then /ignore + /petition. If you are instead harassed by /tells inside a team or an SG or a Vent server. Do not let it slide. Make sure that the group knows what this person is doing. And also send in petitions and /ignore as needed. Silence is death. Silence is approval of what is, has, and will be done. That is how it has always been and how it will always be. The silence cannot continue. This applies mostly

That was already suggested, multiple times. Also, there is a difference between ignoring someone, and being silent. I’ll give you a hint. One of them is a passive response, the other is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDragon Do you know how enraged I am at this thread?! DO YOU?! IT MADE ME AGREE WITH GOLDEN GIRL! ARGH!

This will probably enrage you even more, but this thread didn’t make you do anything. You had the free will to agree or disagree with anyone you wish. You chose to agree with Golden Girl all on your own. You ignored the many helpful suggestions put forth in this very thread. Ones that you put into your “guide”, I might add.

Have you ever stopped to think why bullies (or people that harass others) do what they do? Nine times out of ten, it is because they are looking for a reaction. If you refuse to give them that reaction, then they lose. The first time they do something that you find disagreeable, inform them, politely, that you find it disagreeable. After that, just ignore them. Blowing up at them will just be giving them what they want, and they will harass you even more. You might think about that the next time you are offended.

Also, my dad used to tell me that you can only be offended, if you accept the offense.

edit: punctuation and formatting corrections.

The point you COMPLETELY missed in all your ranting is that the OP was saying we should get a server that ONLY females can play on.

Couple problems with that:

A) Creating a server that only females can play on does not SOLVE the problem, it only allows people to RUN AWAY from the problem.

B) Creating a server that only a specific group of people can play on is DISCRIMINATORY. It doesn't matter what that group of people is. If you exclude people based on their gender, ethnicity, religion, social caste or sexual preference, you are discriminating against them. Plain and simple. And you can't say that men cannot be discriminated against because they are men. If you exclude men from playing on a server simply because they are men, you are discriminating against them, plain and simple. There is a HUGE difference between excluding people based on their account status and excluding them based on any of the above criteria. One is okay, the other is most definitely NOT.

C) There is absolutely NO way short of webcam verification to ensure that only females are playing on the server. There are men named Kerry, and Kelly, and Shannon. The name attached to the account means nothing.

D) Relating to C) Since there is no way to ensure that only women are playing on the server, you are setting up a situation where harassment will be MORE likely. People who like to harass others tend to flock to a place where they know their harassment will have the most effect on ther targets. Create a female-only server and you are sending up a flag that says "Come HERE if you want to harass women and get them really offended!"

F) The problem the OP had is the EXACT REASON the /ignore feature exists. If you /ignore the person who is bothering you, your problem goes away without resorting to demanding the devs make it go away FOR you (which, as I explained here, wouldn't work). If you /ignore and /petition those people, your problem is solved.

That was a heck of a necropost. Resurrect a thread that all involved are glad died by constructing a gigantic straw man and acting irate about it. It's not even worth weeding through that necro mess to piece-quote and explain everything that's wrong. Next time, actually read the thread before you comment on what is and isn't in it, Dragon, because you're being pissed off at imaginary people.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.