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I agree with you. But on a sidenote, I don't understand why everyone complains on this, on my Tank I walk around at resistance cap, practically invincible, never once did I go, "God why can't I have omega damage at the same time?!?!" That just wouldn't make sense.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Because he doesn't actually want to give up the mitigation advantage that Tankers have, he likes to say that its irrelevant to make his whole argument sound better.
His ultimate goal, is to basically have a higher Damage cap as well as a Fury like mechanic on Tankers while keeping their current mitigation numbers. If he ever gets his wish, well, then we can all reroll our Scrappers and Brutes as Tankers and call it a day. |
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Thanks I ran out from the last crazy post Johny was doing this on. I just think it is a bit silly, on the other post he kept talking how great a brute is but on this one he thinks they should not be here? Like I said a bit silly.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
<Air Drops popcorn on LSK's house>
There ya go! |
I hate it when people post really ancient image macros as a response.
People who tell others 'if you don't like it quit' should die in a fire. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Those two points clearly stated, I say Johnny Butane, you are complaining for the sake of complaining. The descriptions have been noted long ago to not entirely be 100% accurate about everything in the game, long ago, by several devs who have posted here. People like you complained, their complaints were heard and responded to, you have taken it upon yourself to continue. There is little point to this thread and I wish I could respond without bumping it.
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Originally Posted by comfort
people who tell others 'if you don't like it quit' should die in a fire.
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+
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| comfort |
= ?
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No matter how much you howl at the moon...
It simply cannot hear you....
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Heh.|
Originally Posted by BigBoss Eyepatch
"I gotsta know..." Why should we not have brutes?
 |
While I do not support Johhny's wilder flights, in my opinion, this statement is actually based upon a kernel of truth.
Waaaaay back in the day, Jack Emmert was posting in the forums all excited about this awesome idea he'd had to buff tankers. See, he had decided that Tankers should get a buff to their damage based upon how many times they'd been attacked.
So you see, as Tankers got more and more into the fight, they'd do more and more damage!
This was a great idea, and tankers would have been awesome with it....
Except the entire thing was instead used as the core mechanic for Brutes.
Darn brutes, stole our baby....
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They gave you the option of playing Brutes. And they are awesome. Jeez what more do you want?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Brutes shouldn't exist.
And until the devs make suitable reparations for throwing Tankers under the bus, I'm not going to stop of my own volition. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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Quote:
Hey not true it hears me every time I howl at the moon |
Originally Posted by Airhammer
No matter how much you howl at the moon...
It simply cannot hear you.... |
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<snort> Reparations? LOL!|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
And until the devs make suitable reparations
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Wait, wait . . . let me guess . . . the treatment that tankers have received from the devs is . . . wait for it . . . A SLAP IN THE FACE! amirite?
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Tanker damage caps raised so they deal the same damage at cap as Brutes, minus ~25% to compensate for Bruising and the HP cap difference.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
They gave you the option of playing Brutes. And they are awesome. Jeez what more do you want?
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or
Change the Tanker AT description on the site to be truthful like the first post in this thread says.
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Blaster: The Blaster specializes in taking massive damage at range. They have very little defensive potential, other than the ability to be a vengeance target. A Blaster can solo successfully, if your definition of solo includes having no enemies in the mission, but this archetype really comes into its own in groups, where Defenders, Scrappers, and Tankers can take the brunt of the enemy attacks, freeing the Blaster to use rez inspirations in relative safety.
Controller: The Controller specializes in being Fire/Kinetics. This is perhaps the most challenging archetype to play, except for Peacebringers, Warshades, Masterminds, Stalkers, Blasters, Arachnos Soldiers, and Dominators. Controllers have very little defense against enemies they forgot to mez, aren't being attacked by pets, aren't debuffed to ineffectiveness, and not confused. A Controller who wishes to adventure solo must do so with extreme caution, as petless controllers are laughed at a lot, except for mind controllers.
Defender: The Defender's powers focus on increasing their abilities and decreasing foe abilities, and healing. But they aren't healers, dammit, they aren't. The Defender has little offensive or defensive punch of his own, but can radically increase the effectiveness of even the smallest team - even if that team has only one member. The Defender is a suitable archetype for grouping, though soloing is possible. Difficult, but possible, especially when soloing Giant Monsters or Hamidon. However, the tremendous usefulness of Defenders' powers should guarantee that they will always be able to find a team to adventure with. Just say you have heals, even if its Aid Self.
Scrapper: The Scrapper specializes in hand-to-hand combat and challenge missions. A single Scrapper should be a match for several foes of equivalent level, such as Jack in Irons and the Clockwork King. Scrappers do not deal in ranged damage, except for Claws, Spines, Kinetic Melee, and Electric Melee. Half of all Scrappers do not deal in ranged damage. Their balance of offensive and defensive potential makes Scrappers by far the best suited archetype for solo play. In team ups they still solo. In a league of twenty four, the Scrappers are all still soloing.
Tanker: The Tanker is the "big man" of the hero world, except he isn't always big, isn't always a man, and isn't always in the hero world. He/She/Huge combines too much defense and too little offense. Tankers make effective solo Heroes, at their own deliberate (read: slow) pace, but they are also in demand by teams of players that need to lrn2ply. You know what just play a Brute already.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
With CoH F2P coming up, if the devs aren't going to fix Tankers, for the sake of honesty to new players, they should change/update the Tanker AT description on the official web site to be truthful.
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But... but... my idea of Tankers is right!
No, seriously, drop it. We can't even say you're beating a dead horse anymore since you've taken that horse corpse, beat it, burned it, smashed it, and done unspeakable things with it. All that you're left with is dust.
I'm sorry you don't know how to play this AT and that you still struggle with it and that the only way you feel this problem can be addressed is by having Paragon Studios re-adjust the AT to fit you and your failings.
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I didn't know you were dating Steelclaw?|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Blaster: The Blaster specializes in taking massive damage at range. They have very little defensive potential, other than the ability to be a vengeance target. A Blaster can solo successfully, if your definition of solo includes having no enemies in the mission, but this archetype really comes into its own in groups, where Defenders, Scrappers, and Tankers can take the brunt of the enemy attacks, freeing the Blaster to use rez inspirations in relative safety.
Controller: The Controller specializes in being Fire/Kinetics. This is perhaps the most challenging archetype to play, except for Peacebringers, Warshades, Masterminds, Stalkers, Blasters, Arachnos Soldiers, and Dominators. Controllers have very little defense against enemies they forgot to mez, aren't being attacked by pets, aren't debuffed to ineffectiveness, and not confused. A Controller who wishes to adventure solo must do so with extreme caution, as petless controllers are laughed at a lot, except for mind controllers. Defender: The Defender's powers focus on increasing their abilities and decreasing foe abilities, and healing. But they aren't healers, dammit, they aren't. The Defender has little offensive or defensive punch of his own, but can radically increase the effectiveness of even the smallest team - even if that team has only one member. The Defender is a suitable archetype for grouping, though soloing is possible. Difficult, but possible, especially when soloing Giant Monsters or Hamidon. However, the tremendous usefulness of Defenders' powers should guarantee that they will always be able to find a team to adventure with. Just say you have heals, even if its Aid Self. Scrapper: The Scrapper specializes in hand-to-hand combat and challenge missions. A single Scrapper should be a match for several foes of equivalent level, such as Jack in Irons and the Clockwork King. Scrappers do not deal in ranged damage, except for Claws, Spines, Kinetic Melee, and Electric Melee. Half of all Scrappers do not deal in ranged damage. Their balance of offensive and defensive potential makes Scrappers by far the best suited archetype for solo play. In team ups they still solo. In a league of twenty four, the Scrappers are all still soloing. Tanker: The Tanker is the "big man" of the hero world, except he isn't always big, isn't always a man, and isn't always in the hero world. He/She/Huge combines too much defense and too little offense. Tankers make effective solo Heroes, at their own deliberate (read: slow) pace, but they are also in demand by teams of players that need to lrn2ply. You know what just play a Brute already. |
(I kid, I kid)
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Well I'm a cuddly demon not dating any one |
Originally Posted by je_saist
I didn't know you were dating Steelclaw?
(I kid, I kid) |
Since everyone else is posting to this thread, I thought I'd stop in and say "Hi" and mention that the whole thing is probably a Rangle Plot.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
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RANGLE IS NEMESIS ( have you ever seen them in the same room together?)
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Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
Since everyone else is posting to this thread, I thought I'd stop in and say "Hi" and mention that the whole thing is probably a Rangle Plot.
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So pretty much make tanks as deadly as brutes and scrappers with the same dmg mitigation as each other?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Tanker damage caps raised so they deal the same damage at cap as Brutes, minus ~25% to compensate for Bruising and the HP cap difference.
or Change the Tanker AT description on the site to be truthful like the first post in this thread says. . |
I dont really know what to say
Electric Armour and the Soft cap
Electric Armour and the 1st 20 levels
Thundra Knight
click here for You want the best TANK!? I'll let you decicde!
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As much as it would be entertaining to say this is a Rangle Plot, even I won't stoop this low. I do have some sanity. Not much, but some.
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Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
Since everyone else is posting to this thread, I thought I'd stop in and say "Hi" and mention that the whole thing is probably a Rangle Plot.
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Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I know, we'll give tankers brute damage, but in trade we'll have to reduce tanker damage mitigation to brute levels. We'll also reduce tanker health to brute levels.|
Originally Posted by untoldhero
So pretty much make tanks as deadly as brutes and scrappers with the same dmg mitigation as each other?
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But that would make brutes a little redundant, so we'll also increase brute health and damage mitigation to distinguish them from tankers. But we'll have to take brute damage away if we do that. I think a reduction to about tanker current levels will be about right.
This is kind of a radical change to the two archetypes, though. So we'll grandfather everyone. Everyone playing a tanker or brute now will keep their current numbers. But anyone making a tanker or a brute after that will get the updated numbers.
That would probably work for me. Although I'm worried the names aren't the most appropriate after the changes. I'll think about a solution to that, but in the interim lets just switch the two names and see about a more permanent fix down the road.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Quote:
They really should redo all the descriptions come Freedom. Blasters are not heroes, corruptors are not villains. The villain descriptions have the extra "role" descriptor, the Hit Point descriptor is not useful information for a new person, and the style of the descriptions are different (the villains use "You will" or "You are" but the heroes say "He can" or "he does"). Some sample new descriptions follow.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Change the Tanker AT description on the site to be truthful like the first post in this thread says.
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Tanker
The Tanker is an irresistible force combined with an immovable object. This Archetype can withstand the attacks of large groups of foes while still inflicting good damage.
Tankers are not totally invulnerable, but their skills allow the other Archetypes to play their parts, too. Tankers are effective hand to hand combatants and through attacking and drawing enemy attacks upon themselves they are an asset to any group. They primarily engage enemies in melee and through various methods keep many threats focused on themselves, instead of allies.
Tankers proudly stand in the front lines of battle in order to protect their comrades and punish any enemies.
- Roles: Meat-shield, Damage
- Damage Mitigation: Very High
- Damage: Medium
- Support: High
- Primary Power Category - Defense
- Secondary Power Category - Melee
Blaster
The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut. Whether up close or afar, he can deal out tremendous amounts of damage.
In comparison to the other Archetypes, the Blaster is the most damaging to the enemy. With potent attacks that cover a wide area, they can often eliminate many lesser enemies quickly. But the Blaster is quite fragile; this Archetype has relatively little ability to avoid enemy retaliation. Situational awareness is their best method of survival, but they do have some helpful, if limited, means to control foes.
Blasters must be on their guard before getting into combat; while their immense power can overcome most foes, alone they are quite vulnerable. The Blaster can turn the tide of a conflict, but they need their allies to help them succeed.
- Roles: Damage
- Damage Mitigation: Low
- Damage: Very High
- Support: Low
- Primary Power Category - Ranged
- Secondary Power Category - Melee/Utility
Corruptor
The Corruptor is a superb range attacker who can weaken foes and embolden allies with a wide variety of powers.
They have potent debuffs to cripple enemies and solid buffs to enhance the abilities of teammates, making them quite valuable to group. Dealing good damage from a safer distance, the Corruptor can unleash impressive blasts.
Fortunately, Corruptors have Scourge, a special ability that allows them to deal a critical final blow to already weakened enemies. As an enemys health drops, their chances for a critical strike dramatically increase, making the Corruptor a deadly foe.
- Roles: Buff/Debuff, Damage
- Damage Mitigation: Medium
- Damage: Medium
- Support: High
- Primary Power Category - Ranged
- Secondary Power Category - Buff/Debuff
Brute
Brutes are made to fight and revel in hand-to-hand combat.
With strong offensive Power Sets designed to inflict punishment and impressive defenses to take it, they're the best there is in a straight melee fight. Protracted battles only make them more fierce and their attacks gain power because of it. They can draw the attention of enemies, which can be an aid to less durable teammates as well as fuel for their attacks.
They build up Fury as they attack and are attacked, multiplying their base damage potential dramatically. This unique combination of powers makes their strategy one of speed and aggression.
- Roles: Damage, Meat-shield
- Damage Mitigation: High
- Damage: High
- Support: Medium
- Primary Power Category - Melee
- Secondary Power Category - Defense
Scrapper
No lone enemy wants to cross paths with a Scrapper - because odds are that only the Scrapper is going to walk away.
Ferocity and skill make the Scrapper a master of hand to hand combat. Alone or with allies, they will seek out those who oppose them and bring them down. While not as effective as Brutes or Tankers at drawing enemy attacks, they can assist in keeping enemies off less durable allies.
The Scrapper is resilient, only Tankers and Brutes can withstand more damage. They have impressive attacks and on top of that the ability to inflict random critical attacks, which can deliver devastating damage to enemies.
- Roles: Damage, Meat-shield
- Damage Mitigation: High
- Damage: High
- Support: Low
- Primary Power Category - Melee
- Secondary Power Category - Defense
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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No blasters will still be heroes and cors will still be villains, remember that the F2P wil not have the option of switching sides unless they purchase GR.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
They really should redo all the descriptions come Freedom. Blasters are not heroes, corruptors are not villains. The villain descriptions have the extra "role" descriptor, the Hit Point descriptor is not useful information for a new person, and the style of the descriptions are different (the villains use "You will" or "You are" but the heroes say "He can" or "he does"). Some sample new descriptions follow.
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Um. You may wish to read up on the released details as regards the new character generation and tutorial being released in I21/Freedom that replaces the current system.|
Originally Posted by LSK
No blasters will still be heroes and cors will still be villains, remember that the F2P wil not have the option of switching sides unless they purchase GR.
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Your statement is technically accurate at that point, in that free accounts will not have the ability to switch sides ... however, you appear to be missing a few details that matter in this thread's context.
Well, it has nothing to do with this thread, because it took them more than one day to make the changes they did, but there's an entirely revamped character creation process.
They have updated the Tanker description. I assume it's okay to talk about stuff at the SDICC.
Yet another argument, for arguments sake by the OP, soo intellectually stimulating..
Pass.