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Oh, hey there. You also forgot about those pesky higher base DEF and RESISTANCE numbers which both work in unison to allow for better protected HP, of which the tanker - as you cleverly noted - has MORE OF to begin with.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Tanker damage caps raised so they deal the same damage at cap as Brutes, minus ~25% to compensate for Bruising and the HP cap difference.
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Hope that helps.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Blaster: The Blaster specializes in taking massive damage at range. They have very little defensive potential, other than the ability to be a vengeance target. A Blaster can solo successfully, if your definition of solo includes having no enemies in the mission, but this archetype really comes into its own in groups, where Defenders, Scrappers, and Tankers can take the brunt of the enemy attacks, freeing the Blaster to use rez inspirations in relative safety.
Controller: The Controller specializes in being Fire/Kinetics. This is perhaps the most challenging archetype to play, except for Peacebringers, Warshades, Masterminds, Stalkers, Blasters, Arachnos Soldiers, and Dominators. Controllers have very little defense against enemies they forgot to mez, aren't being attacked by pets, aren't debuffed to ineffectiveness, and not confused. A Controller who wishes to adventure solo must do so with extreme caution, as petless controllers are laughed at a lot, except for mind controllers. Defender: The Defender's powers focus on increasing their abilities and decreasing foe abilities, and healing. But they aren't healers, dammit, they aren't. The Defender has little offensive or defensive punch of his own, but can radically increase the effectiveness of even the smallest team - even if that team has only one member. The Defender is a suitable archetype for grouping, though soloing is possible. Difficult, but possible, especially when soloing Giant Monsters or Hamidon. However, the tremendous usefulness of Defenders' powers should guarantee that they will always be able to find a team to adventure with. Just say you have heals, even if its Aid Self. Scrapper: The Scrapper specializes in hand-to-hand combat and challenge missions. A single Scrapper should be a match for several foes of equivalent level, such as Jack in Irons and the Clockwork King. Scrappers do not deal in ranged damage, except for Claws, Spines, Kinetic Melee, and Electric Melee. Half of all Scrappers do not deal in ranged damage. Their balance of offensive and defensive potential makes Scrappers by far the best suited archetype for solo play. In team ups they still solo. In a league of twenty four, the Scrappers are all still soloing. Tanker: The Tanker is the "big man" of the hero world, except he isn't always big, isn't always a man, and isn't always in the hero world. He/She/Huge combines too much defense and too little offense. Tankers make effective solo Heroes, at their own deliberate (read: slow) pace, but they are also in demand by teams of players that need to lrn2ply. You know what just play a Brute already. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I know, we'll give tankers brute damage, but in trade we'll have to reduce tanker damage mitigation to brute levels. We'll also reduce tanker health to brute levels.
But that would make brutes a little redundant, so we'll also increase brute health and damage mitigation to distinguish them from tankers. But we'll have to take brute damage away if we do that. I think a reduction to about tanker current levels will be about right. This is kind of a radical change to the two archetypes, though. So we'll grandfather everyone. Everyone playing a tanker or brute now will keep their current numbers. But anyone making a tanker or a brute after that will get the updated numbers. That would probably work for me. Although I'm worried the names aren't the most appropriate after the changes. I'll think about a solution to that, but in the interim lets just switch the two names and see about a more permanent fix down the road. |
That, was fantastic.
BRB getting more pop corn BTW where is the pause button for this? I do not want to miss this comedy show.
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Originally Posted by LSK
BRB getting more pop corn
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That enough..?
ps, I also believe this could be a Rangle Plot.
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No I already ate all of that one.
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Originally Posted by Acemace
That enough..? ps, I also believe this could be a Rangle Plot. |
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OMG please write up the rest and email it straight to Paragon Studios !!!! This I love !!!!
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
They really should redo all the descriptions come Freedom. Blasters are not heroes, corruptors are not villains. The villain descriptions have the extra "role" descriptor, the Hit Point descriptor is not useful information for a new person, and the style of the descriptions are different (the villains use "You will" or "You are" but the heroes say "He can" or "he does"). Some sample new descriptions follow.
Tanker The Tanker is an irresistible force combined with an immovable object. This Archetype can withstand the attacks of large groups of foes while still inflicting good damage. Tankers are not totally invulnerable, but their skills allow the other Archetypes to play their parts, too. Tankers are effective hand to hand combatants and through attacking and drawing enemy attacks upon themselves they are an asset to any group. They primarily engage enemies in melee and through various methods keep many threats focused on themselves, instead of allies. Tankers proudly stand in the front lines of battle in order to protect their comrades and punish any enemies.
Blaster The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut. Whether up close or afar, he can deal out tremendous amounts of damage. In comparison to the other Archetypes, the Blaster is the most damaging to the enemy. With potent attacks that cover a wide area, they can often eliminate many lesser enemies quickly. But the Blaster is quite fragile; this Archetype has relatively little ability to avoid enemy retaliation. Situational awareness is their best method of survival, but they do have some helpful, if limited, means to control foes. Blasters must be on their guard before getting into combat; while their immense power can overcome most foes, alone they are quite vulnerable. The Blaster can turn the tide of a conflict, but they need their allies to help them succeed.
Corruptor The Corruptor is a superb range attacker who can weaken foes and embolden allies with a wide variety of powers. They have potent debuffs to cripple enemies and solid buffs to enhance the abilities of teammates, making them quite valuable to group. Dealing good damage from a safer distance, the Corruptor can unleash impressive blasts. Fortunately, Corruptors have Scourge, a special ability that allows them to deal a critical final blow to already weakened enemies. As an enemys health drops, their chances for a critical strike dramatically increase, making the Corruptor a deadly foe.
Brute Brutes are made to fight and revel in hand-to-hand combat. With strong offensive Power Sets designed to inflict punishment and impressive defenses to take it, they're the best there is in a straight melee fight. Protracted battles only make them more fierce and their attacks gain power because of it. They can draw the attention of enemies, which can be an aid to less durable teammates as well as fuel for their attacks. They build up Fury as they attack and are attacked, multiplying their base damage potential dramatically. This unique combination of powers makes their strategy one of speed and aggression.
Scrapper No lone enemy wants to cross paths with a Scrapper - because odds are that only the Scrapper is going to walk away. Ferocity and skill make the Scrapper a master of hand to hand combat. Alone or with allies, they will seek out those who oppose them and bring them down. While not as effective as Brutes or Tankers at drawing enemy attacks, they can assist in keeping enemies off less durable allies. The Scrapper is resilient, only Tankers and Brutes can withstand more damage. They have impressive attacks and on top of that the ability to inflict random critical attacks, which can deliver devastating damage to enemies.
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The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Hate the term "Meat shield" 
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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That was one thing I didn't love either, but I did not want to use the term Tank, since it could be confusing and I had already spent too much time on something that would just be for demonstration purposes. I do think it conveys the needed information, especially for a new person trying to figure out what the various ATs can do.|
Originally Posted by Jagged
Hate the term "Meat shield"
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Protector, Aggro control, enemy engager were all terms I considered and passed by. I am sure there is a better word or phrase, but it is just not coming into my head.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Crowd Control?
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
That was one thing I didn't love either, but I did not want to use the term Tank, since it could be confusing and I had already spent too much time on something that would just be for demonstration purposes. I do think it conveys the needed information, especially for a new person trying to figure out what the various ATs can do.
Protector, Aggro control, enemy engager were all terms I considered and passed by. I am sure there is a better word or phrase, but it is just not coming into my head. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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That works for me. I also hate "meat-shield".|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Crowd Control?
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By the way, Strato, shouldn't Scrappers have "Very High" damage? I thought the one of the complaints about Blasters is that Scrappers do similar levels of damage with much more mitigation.
I think it makes sense to leave Brutes at "High" since it takes buffs or a high sustained level of Fury to reach Scrapper levels, where Scraps get their damage "out of the box".
Other than that, great write up.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
[QUOTE=Finduilas;3757465]That works for me. I also hate "meat-shield".
QUOTE]
I find "meat-shield" a bit of a humorous if not slang term. Crowd controller is appropriate (but conjures up images of Controllers in my mind/ that or the War Mace AoE 
), and just to throw a couple more ideas out, how about "point of impact" or "point of contact".
StratoNexus, I like the overall distinctions made to each AT. Well done.
Ace, I would say that qualifies as a Rangle Plot
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
Im gonna chip in with NuclearMedicine's idea but instead of point of contact... I'd say, "Focal point" which means the same thing and sounds better than "meat shield"
As a Tanker your job is make sure the enemies focus on you not the teammates.
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Maybe Melee Crowd Control to separate from Controllers and Doms, who are probably more traditionally what people will look at for 'Crowd Control'.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Crowd Control?
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Its a tough one to describe for sure, since the AT is already using the name of the role as its own.
I suppose "Threat Absorption" is too wordy.
Also, neither of those actually describes the nature of the Tanker's Primary set which is mitigation focused.
I'm a big fan of "Armored Spearhead", it works well for Tankers, Brutes & Scrappers.
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Try 'heavy melee fighter' for tanks, 'medium melee fighter' for brutes and scraps, and 'light melee fighter' for stalkers and blasters.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
That was one thing I didn't love either, but I did not want to use the term Tank, since it could be confusing and I had already spent too much time on something that would just be for demonstration purposes. I do think it conveys the needed information, especially for a new person trying to figure out what the various ATs can do.
Protector, Aggro control, enemy engager were all terms I considered and passed by. I am sure there is a better word or phrase, but it is just not coming into my head. |
Yes, blasters.
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No comment. |
Originally Posted by NuclearMedicine
Ace, I would say that qualifies as a Rangle Plot
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Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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No, I reject this.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Try 'heavy melee fighter' for tanks, 'medium melee fighter' for brutes and scraps, and 'light melee fighter' for stalkers and blasters.
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'Heavy melee fighter' implies to me that both their offense and survivability are superior because the term 'heavy' can carry such connotations.
In the military, heavy tanks are the most armored, but they also carry the biggest guns.
'Heavy' attacks hit very hard, but are slow. That's not Tankers; their attacks are no slower than anyone else and hit weaker.
In this case, 'heavy' applies better to Brutes who are slower to get their damage out, but it hits like a train once it's brought to bear.
If you wanted to set the heavy, medium and light designations for Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers respectively, that I can get behind.
And the term 'melee fighter' should not be anywhere near Tankers in their current form. Nothing about their offensive capabilities should be played up in the least. You wouldn't boast about Blaster survivability in their description.
Melee Crowd Control, Decoy, Spearhead, Arggo Control. Those are appropriate terms.
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My Ice/Ice would like a word.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Try 'heavy melee fighter' for tanks, 'medium melee fighter' for brutes and scraps, and 'light melee fighter' for stalkers and blasters.
Yes, blasters. |
Ice/Ice Blaster. Dedication to concept is an ugly thing.
Claws/WP Brute. Sex without the angst.
Every CoX character lies somewhere on this spectrum.
Perhaps the term "Aggro Control" is better than Meat shield or Melee Crowd Control.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
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Originally Posted by Tramontane
My Ice/Ice would like a word.
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Yes?
That said, the whole description idea is a pretty cool one, we should try to get a red name to look this over: The AT descriptions are freakin' awful as is.
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You EVER played a stone Tank?
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
'Heavy' attacks hit very hard, but are slow. That's not Tankers; their attacks are no slower than anyone else and hit weaker.
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I agree. I want a term that only discusses that they draw aggro as I already included Damage as part of their role.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
No, I reject this.
'Heavy melee fighter' implies to me that both their offense and survivability are superior because the term 'heavy' can carry such connotations. |
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Melee Crowd Control, Decoy, Spearhead, Arggo Control. Those are appropriate terms.
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So far I think I like Spearhead the best.
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Try 'heavy melee fighter' for tanks, 'medium melee fighter' for brutes and scraps, and 'light melee fighter' for stalkers and blasters.
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It is all moot anyway, since it seems the devs have already taken care of this concern for Freedom launch and will have made their own choices about phrasing and how to communicate the AT roles for new and old players alike.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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It's still more applicable to a /Stone Brute.|
Originally Posted by LSK
You EVER played a stone Tank?
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Ok so you have not gotcha.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
It's still more applicable to a /Stone Brute.
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Brutes are gonna beg to differ at being (presumably) grouped in the Tank category while being a bit of an afterthought in Melee Damage. I think the devs need a reality check unless they've made some changes to Brutes for i21.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It is all moot anyway, since it seems the devs have already taken care of this concern for Freedom launch and will have made their own choices about phrasing and how to communicate the AT roles for new and old players alike.
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Especially since they're using the Brute's logo for the Melee Damage role group icon.
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It's pretty clear that you don't have any semblance of game balance.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Tanker damage caps raised so they deal the same damage at cap as Brutes, minus ~25% to compensate for Bruising and the HP cap difference.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
They have updated the Tanker description.
And anything seen or heard at a public convention is fair game.
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