Removing Heal Decay & Travel Suppression from PVP
By
Antoinette,
Posted on: 2011-07-12 11:08 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Healing also activates it. If you're an empath trying to run away, don't use Healing Aura or you'll suppress yourself.|
Originally Posted by Rabid_M
The biggest difference is that, in PvP, getting attacked activates it.
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Using inspirations also activates it.
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Removeing Healdecay and travelsupression or altering thier current values should be a no brainer for the devs.
I know when I started playing this game the toonmaker and the travel powers were it's big selling points for me and most of my friends, running around freely in coh was fun, especially with coh's combat system.
Sure they did added PvE travel suppression(which I'm not even is sure is needed and should possible be removed but thats a whole different discussion!) but that's not even comparable to the pvp travel suppresion.
The PvP travel suppression just removes the aspects of what makes coh fun and I was always amazed that the devs did not see that when they added it into the pvp game.
Removeing travel suppression and or tweaking it and heal decay in pvp would go a long way for the devs to show some fait to what's left of the pvp community.
In the issue 12 closed beta Castle used to change/tweak the values on travel suppression. I have no clue if it's a easy change codewise, but the devs silence towards the PvP community in this game is probably because they don't have the time to spend on it, but then atleast throw as a bone and remove/tweak travel suppression.Is it that much to ask for after years of the pvp mess we have had?"Give the players what they want" mantra should apply here!
Being shot at and...
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Ok yeah, that sucks but I assume Sprint is not suppressed? If not then I can see it as a way to introduce some normality to a fight. I know I personally never fight in PvE with any full-fledged travel power toggled on and hardly ever see anyone else using them either. *shrug*|
Originally Posted by Leandro
Healing also activates it. If you're an empath trying to run away, don't use Healing Aura or you'll suppress yourself.
Using inspirations also activates it. |
Since I don't really know what I'm talking about and have had my question answered, I'll bow out now. Thanks!
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Indeed! I did actually say that earlier on that I didn't really feel it. However I disliked the bouncy PvP even more. I am very consistent in not like CoH's PvP!|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
The only conclusion is that you don't actually like PVP as it is.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
All travel suppression does is make it easier for ranged characters to kill someone. This is because melee characters are suppressed by their own melee attacks...so it becomes a crawl for two players. So the melee characters have to crawl to their suppressed opponenet before TS wears off to land another attack. Alternatively: the ranged character, while crawling, just fires ranged blast after ranged blast.
So yes. Travel Suppression does not help melee characters. |
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
I never die in zones on my tank. Back before Issue 13 I used to die a lot more.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
If I walk into broken glass should I step backwards and rethink my path, or should I soldier on, through the broken glass?
Vague metaphors with moralistic leanings aren't useful when it comes to system design. |
Tweaking Travel Suppression, sure. It's a good idea that's flawed as it activated on too many triggers in my mind. Throwing it out returns us to the bouncy PvP style which, as I may have said once or twice, I absolutely hated with the fury of a thousand suns.
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Originally Posted by Xanatos
I've died in hibernate loads.
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There is a period of activation time that you are easily targeted by normal players.
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Originally Posted by Fanservice
I have no idea how you managed this. Aren't you invincible in Hibernate? It's pretty much the point of it.
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Well, yeah...had I actually done more than half their health with that tactic, it would have been a legitimate concern.|
Originally Posted by Fanservice
Fighting people who can instantly get away does not sound very fun to me. Yes you can counter it with Teleport Other, but it's still not all that much fun (And easily countered with a single Insp)
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But I just did it to freak people out that there was a Bane lurking and taunting them
The smart ones realised the limits of my damage output and promptly tracked me down for a curbstomping >_>
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Actually, can I ask what purpose travel suppression serves. At all? PvE or PvP?
Rhetorical, but seriously - IMO a lame mechanic that spoils one of the very best aspects of this game.
Please remove it from the game, completely. Pretty please? 
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To prevent jousting mostly.|
Originally Posted by MayorOfAngrytown
Actually, can I ask what purpose travel suppression serves. At all? PvE or PvP?
Rhetorical, but seriously - IMO a lame mechanic that spoils one of the very best aspects of this game. Please remove it from the game, completely. Pretty please? |
I much prefer travel suppression to the previous solution of 20% accuracy nerf while the power was on.
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Phasing and attempting to kill someone in hibernate does not work. Phasing and attempting to kill someone in phase WILL work.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
No you are not invincible, you are phased. Anyone with a phase power may also phase and then proceed to kill you. There is a period of activation time too, that you are easily targeted by normal players.
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The only way to kill a player in hibernate is to activate damage powers with delayed damage or damage that lands at the same time as the player activates hibernate. Psi blast for example is perfect for this, you can essentially fire off three attacks just before/as the opponent activates hibernate and becomes encased in ice and then the blasts land and kill him after he feels safe adn sound as an ice cube.
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Even walk is subject to travel suppression.
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
Being shot at and...
Ok yeah, that sucks but I assume Sprint is not suppressed? If not then I can see it as a way to introduce some normality to a fight. I know I personally never fight in PvE with any full-fledged travel power toggled on and hardly ever see anyone else using them either. *shrug* Since I don't really know what I'm talking about and have had my question answered, I'll bow out now. Thanks! |
Everybody hates to have their prey escape. At the same time, everybody wants the super getaway power.
Sorry for the run-on, but I think it's relevant for what I have to say next.
It appears to me that the devs attempted to change pvp so that all arc-types, all powersets were more or less on a level playing field in terms of effectiveness. What is meant by effectiveness? Defeating your foe. Too bad that that outcome is the only 'reward' in the current pvp system. Now if that were to change, I think pvp would be much more fun.
Heck, you should get that victory if you forced your opponent to turn tail and run. Buffers should be rewarded for buffing their teammates, healers for healing, tanks for tanking, etc.
Now on to the main topic, I would love to see the old system back with a few tweaks (same travel suppression as old pre i13 pvp, no heal decay, no dr):
1. Retain the offensive toggle drop when mezzed, but defensive toggle remain.
2. Rework mez powers a little so that duration's are relevant to the effects. Fear powers used to last a long time and that was OK since the effect was simply a non toggle dropping (pre i13) hold until you were attacked.
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Ok then yeah, it needs to go or be modified. I can support that for sure.
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Originally Posted by GhostOfEliPorter
Even walk is subject to travel suppression.
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I just typed out a long post and then the forums decided to log me out before I submitted.
Basically, heal decay and travel suppression were suppose to help balance things and have failed horribly at that. If you can out heal incoming damage, you should be able to out heal it, plain and simple. Travel suppression on the other hand was suppose to help out melee characters, which it doesn't. Without any suppression players are chasing after each other at the same speed (granted they have the same travel powers). Now, with suppression, they're still chasing after each other at the same speed, just a lot slower.
Removing these two things from the zones would go a long way in making zone PvP more enjoyable. The mechanic is already available for the arena, I doubt it would take any significant development time to change this for the zones.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
My understanding of the purpose for all the I13 changes was for encounters to be resolved by someone dying. No player was supposed to be able to escape forever or be healed forever.
I don't agree with that design goal and I don't think that they achieved their desired goal. But I do think that was what they were aiming for.
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There's a reason I've otherwise stayed out of the thread. I know better.
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Originally Posted by Jagged
I twitched when I read this. I agree with you, but I was remember the arguments
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That's the thing; sure it's available to all but that doesn't mean everyone has the powers.|
Originally Posted by Xanatos
If someone else has taken powers to be fast, why would you not also have to take those powers to be fast? How is that any different to taking healing powers so you can heal or attack powers so you can attack?
My complaint is that the SYSTEM ITSELF is (attempting to) accommodate players who do not have fast characters by slowing down those that do. DESPITE the painfully obvious fact that absolutely ANYONE can be fast because the speed powers are available to every archetype. |
On any FPS, everyone starts out with the same gear (unless you're cheating
), there are more powerful weapons, health packs, etc...to get and available to all. All you have to do is get to x spot before the other person and wa-la you have it. No one has super speed or flight or teleport to get there faster than you do so everyone has an equal chance (of course some people may not know the maps and where things are but...that comes with experience).What I'm saying, and I've said it before when i13 was coming out, I think that the i13 changes were for the most part unnecessary. i13 also introduced the dual build system/ability. I thought that with the dual builds that it was a good 'compromise' for pvp builds. You could have a pve build and then change into your pvp build and go on.
If everyone (no matter what build), when they entered a pvp zone, automatically got Super Speed, Super Jump or any other "required" power then I wouldn't have an issue with most of it (I still don't like run and gun just for run and gun's sake).
Obviously that's not happening any time soon but...that's where I'm going.
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| I know the idea of any type of PVP having a barrier for entry is a bad one as it excludes new players. But any competitive game will have a "best gun" or "best car". You can't complain that Jedi Knights keep beating you when you refuse to use anything but the hand blaster because you're "RPing as Greedo". ... |
Pfft, Greedo shot first!
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People still get **** on in those situations. Now they have a smaller chance to escape since inspiration use gets punished.
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Originally Posted by TehHippeh
The real problem I think with all of this is the devs went out of their way to try to make the solo player who wanders into the zone and runs into a team of 5 on the other side more survivable. . |
Please remove PvP travel suppression and Heal Decay.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
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Deciding that jousting was a bad thing that needed to be removed, instead of somehow incorporated into the game was one mistake amongst many.|
Originally Posted by reiella
To prevent jousting mostly.
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Echo what others have said, CoX PvP needs to be about objectives and not defeats.
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Agree with the rest of your post but not this. If your opponent is able to evade you then you have not been victorious. Survival is something that should be rewarded, not discouraged.
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Originally Posted by Necromatic
Heck, you should get that victory if you forced your opponent to turn tail and run.
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Well yes. But here's the thing; every player has the FREEDOM OF CHOICE to select those powers. Meaning that if they are unable to keep up with faster players IT IS THEIR FAULT ENTIRELY.|
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
That's the thing; sure it's available to all but that doesn't mean everyone has the powers.
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This is just a case of players wanting to have the cake and eat it too.
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You misunderstand.|
Originally Posted by Fanservice
Or not! Wait what? Travel Suppression makes it easier for Ranged so now your Tank is doing better? I am confuse.
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My tank being more survivable is not is mutually exclusive with the fact that travel suppression favours ranged characters over melee ones when it comes to attack dynamics. Travel Suppression favouring ranged over melee when it comes to attack dynamics does not imply that the person being attacked is any more/less vulnerable than they were before. The comparison is between two attackers, not attacker and attackee.
Hope that cleared it up.
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Originally Posted by Fanservice
I thought the point was fairly obvious. The old system sucked, the new system sucks. Going back to the old system doesn't fix anything. Because it sucked. So let's not do that and instead try something else.
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Originally Posted by Fanservice
Tweaking Travel Suppression, sure. It's a good idea that's flawed as it activated on too many triggers in my mind. Throwing it out returns us to the bouncy PvP style which, as I may have said once or twice, I absolutely hated with the fury of a thousand suns.
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Originally Posted by Fanservice
I have no idea how you managed this. Aren't you invincible in Hibernate? It's pretty much the point of it.
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This. Games get slower and dumber each year which is why i loved how fast CoH is.
| Most people preferred it because it was fast paced in terms of movement. No other MMORPG came close. |
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FWIW, haven't PVP'd.|
Originally Posted by Jagged
Echo what others have said, CoX PvP needs to be about objectives and not defeats.
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I expected an objective-based PVP from my expectations of the "superhero genre", with clever 'plots' and window-dressings surrounding "capture the flag", "king of the hill", and "race to the finish" type scenarios. In fact, I thought that sounded pretty cool.
Then I saw our lolpvp.
I think PVP has been poorly executed, and for PVP'rs sake, I hope Freedom offers and wakeup, a recharge of the mechanics, and a "second golden age". Specifically, I hope for opportunities for objective-based PVP, but I'm not holding my breath.
I do support removing travel suppression, for what the opinion of someone who doesn't PVP is worth (I believe the expression goes, "...and spit in the other"?).
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