Blasters surpurflous?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-11 23:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Yes people are doing more damage, but so are blasters. Blasters will always do the most damage.
Doesnt really work like that
Made up numbers here, but if a corruptor does 90% of blaster damage but makes even 1 other person 10% better, then they are doing as much damage.
Im not saying blasters dont do the most damage, im saying they dont do enough for doing nothing else.
This doesnt even account for the fact that blasters spend more time faceplanted than any other AT by far.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Did the devs release numbers on this, or are you just going by "I feel?" Because if you're going by "feel" or "common knowledge," well... doesn't really matter.
And still no.
If you don't like them, don't play them. If you don't feel they "add enough" or are "superfluous," don't play them. Nobody is holding a gun to your head saying "You'll play a blaster and like it, or else!" Meanwhile, other people *will* play them - because they want to and enjoy them.
Me, I'm probably more aggressive on my blasters than on any other AT. When I feel like playing them, a Corrupter is not a suitable replacement. That in and of itself renders them "not superfluous" in my book.
Any of the wiki's will give details on exactly how much damage blasters do.
But just feeling like playing something doesnt make it good, or even acceptable.
People played EA because they felt like it, it didnt stop it from being a bad set. So bad they broke the cottage rule to change it.
For me I would take any corruptor, defender or dominator over any blaster any day on any TF Im running.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
So don't play it, and don't worry about how other people feel about it. Because I'll tell you right now - I don't care how you feel about blasters, I have a blast (so to speak) playing mine.
If you're so worried about numbers you can't enjoy it, play Excel.
If you're so worried about numbers you won't invite an AT, well, that's fine with me - we won't be playing together, and while you're agonizing over .000000127dps, I'll be having fun with my team made up of "Hey, bring whatever you want, just don't be a twit."
But from where I sit right now, it sounds like you're trying to look for justification for - well, misplaced elitism, for lack of a better description. Not going to get it from me.
Edit: While you're worrying about that and "not inviting blasters," do you kick people for not having enough set bonuses (or not inviting them?) After all, that can make a difference, too.
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/this | If you're so worried about numbers you won't invite an AT, well, that's fine with me - we won't be playing together, and while you're agonizing over .000000127dps, I'll be having fun with my team made up of "Hey, bring whatever you want, just don't be a twit." |
(and it's really hard to imagine that anyone who has . . . oh say, a blaster and a defender will be tripping over themselves to team with you on your "no blasters allowed" tfs)
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Quote worthy. Lol
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
If you're so worried about numbers you can't enjoy it, play Excel. |
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I didn't see any breaking of the cottage rule with EA.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
So bad they broke the cottage rule to change it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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The essence of this very point has also been brought up in a recent post over on the stalker forum.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
It leaves me wondering whats the role of an At that does damage and nothing else?
Especially with dominators, corruptors and some offender builds are matching blaster damage and add alot more to add to a team. |
It boils down to the balance and the role between buffers and damage-dealers.
A buffer might not be very damaging by itself but it makes everyone else better (for example, a Defender switches on Assault), and thus driving up the overall damage output of the team/league beyond the sum of each members. Some might put it this way: if adding up all the extra damage that is the direct contribution of a buffer's buffing abilities, it does more damage comparing to a damage dealer. So, in order to fill in the shortfall, a damage dealer should do even more damage than it currently is.
But adding more damage potential to a damage dealer will not diminish the contributions of a buffer in the same team/league - in fact, the more damaging a power is, the more effective a buff it has on it, which makes the buffer even more valuable.
Sometimes I wonder if 14 ATs are a bit too many to the point where the differences are whether it has pets, or it does range or melee. Similar topic comes up from time to time saying that an AT is doing a better job than an other AT, which should suppose to do it better by its very nature. Personally, I always favour Corruptors and Defenders over Blasters; and certain combos of MMs over Defenders.
I don't think Blasters are superfluous at all; they are just boring. However, if all Blaster's ranged abilities have a range of at least 100ft (not counting the effect of Boost Range), that would be interesting. Or chance to crit.
Even before incarnates I felt blasters need some kind of help. The damage difference vs the other ATs is no where near enough considering their squishieness. I can say without a doubt getting a blaster to 50 was the hardest thing I ever done. When I look at comparable ATs in other MMOs it makes me wonder why they screwed blasters over the way they did. The whole range thing being their defense is a bold face lie especially since almost all the critter factions will out range you at some point.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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It might be just as accurate to say that with pretty much everyone with incarnate abilities having more survivability than a heavily armored civil war era warship, who needs scrappers or stalkers?|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
With pretty much everyone with incarnate abilities having more damage coming out of every pore than a low grade nuclear weapon.
It leaves me wondering whats the role of an At that does damage and nothing else? Especially with dominators, corruptors and some offender builds are matching blaster damage and add alot more to add to a team. I know this is an old argument, but it seems in the new post incarnate enviroment its worse than ever. |
That said I do think there's some room for Blasters to get a few really nasty high powerd single target res debuffs in their epics or secondaries. Heck, even adding a bruising component (make it stackable unlike tankers) would be enough.
If I had my way they'd be short duration melee range debuffs... risk vs. reward and all that.
I'm of the opinion that Blasters should do more melee damage than ranged damage (more melee damage than any other AT) should they choose to put themselves in that position.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
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Of course they will. There's no real question of that at all; The question that's sparked interminable debate is whether their sacrifices in terms of defense compared to their closest damage rivals - Scrappers and Brutes - is worth their damage and range advantage. Burstwise, this damage advantage has proportionally shrunk with the advent of Judgement attacks.|
Originally Posted by Shadowclone
Yes people are doing more damage, but so are blasters. Blasters will always do the most damage.
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I've switched mains (well before I20, from a Fire/En Blaster to a Fire/Shield Scrapper) largely because I've found it not to be the case that Blasters really get a boost from their increased damage and range proportional to the value of an entire defense set. It felt very much like I hadn't tasted power until I finally experienced an omni-positional softcap.
That said, I don't think this performance gap has really gotten any wider since I20. Yes, Judgement has proliferated, but there are countering factors.
First, that we've seen in recent content some new mechanics where that range advantage actually proves significant. Blasters are boss on Apex. They're are also extremely helpful during the BAF Escapee phase, moreso than their melee counterparts; and their range is also useful during the final confrontation in the KIR, especially as Entanglement and Obliteration beams rear their heads.
Second, the Judgement burst damage gap is not the only one that's closed. Now Blasters have Destiny, which either gives them the ability to ignore mez like their non-squishy counterparts, or temporarily achieve their defenses.
So while I think Blasters could use a little help, if you've been fine with how Blasters were balanced before, I don't really see why you'd stop playing them in a post-I20 world.
Every AT in the game is superfluous. That's what makes this game great. You can play what you want.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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If that person they buff is a blaster then they are doing shedloads more damage. And are you pulling these numbers out of your head? |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Doesnt really work like that
Made up numbers here, but if a corruptor does 90% of blaster damage but makes even 1 other person 10% better, then they are doing as much damage. Im not saying blasters dont do the most damage, im saying they dont do enough for doing nothing else. This doesnt even account for the fact that blasters spend more time faceplanted than any other AT by far. |
Also, the only reason I die on my blaster is the same as the reason I die on all my toons, I play reckless. My blaster dies only marginally more than my tank, and it's granite.
Kyria's answer is right on the money.
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* Points to signature* |
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
Quote worthy. Lol
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Superfluous is the word you are looking for. Funny how you shot yourself in the foot coming out of the gate on that one, OP. You probably will only find 1 or 2 people that sympathize with the sentiment you are bringing up right now on the boards. No, just because you are feeling like other ATs are doing more damage than you, other ATs and powers will not be nerfed. As others have stated, perhaps you should try those other ATs and see if you like the way they play. And I still don't believe, outside of perhaps a nuke, a defender will ever match a blasters power output. Not counting in debuff, of course.
Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.
"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
- Vitality
Yes, blasters are superfluous, but that's not the whole story. Please allow me a short moment to list all the superfluous ATs in this game.
Blaster.
Controller.
Defender.
Scrapper.
Tanker.
Peacebringer.
Warshade.
Brute.
Corruptor.
Dominator.
Stalker.
Mastermind.
Arachnos Soldier.
Arachnos Widow.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Kyria - Thanks for stating clearly what I've been thinking for a while but haven't been able to well articulate.
The Devs have actually done a nice job (unintentionally or otherwise) of making range desirable in the trials. Blasters own the BAF. Of course, I think I'd prefer to avoid a Blaster in a certain phase of the Lambda ... heh
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No AT is superfluous |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
With pretty much everyone with incarnate abilities having more damage coming out of every pore than a low grade nuclear weapon.
It leaves me wondering whats the role of an At that does damage and nothing else? Especially with dominators, corruptors and some offender builds are matching blaster damage and add alot more to add to a team. I know this is an old argument, but it seems in the new post incarnate enviroment its worse than ever. |
/end thread
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I play Blasters because I like them. I dont worry about what the scrapper is doing.. what the Dominator is doing.. yadda yadda..
Im to busy Blasting to pay them any mind..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Fix'd.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
Every AT is superfluous
/end thread harder |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Damage and NOTHING else ??
My Nrg/Nrg Blaster helps control the battlefield by using Hovering and Knockback to keep foes pinned on the ground..
My Elec/Elec Blaster actually is one of my best sappers and has three single target holds as well.
Its often HOW you play.. not what you play..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I do not think that word means what you think it means Shubbie.
With pretty much everyone with incarnate abilities having more damage coming out of every pore than a low grade nuclear weapon.
It leaves me wondering whats the role of an At that does damage and nothing else?
Especially with dominators, corruptors and some offender builds are matching blaster damage and add alot more to add to a team.
I know this is an old argument, but it seems in the new post incarnate enviroment its worse than ever.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.