Blasters surpurflous?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-11 23:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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It was a damage boost for everyone but the top .00000001% of the population that had purples coming out their ears.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
*bzzzzt* Wrong.
Dominators had domination changed to remove (as it was appropriately described) "Jeckyll and Hyde" gameplay, where there was a vast gulf between performance in and out of domination - *including* the damage boost it formerly gave. Now they get that damage all the time to help even out the gameplay experience (and some sets such as psi got a needed rebalancing.) It's a damage boost compared to what they had outside of domination. For some people (no, I'm not one of them) who managed to stack perma-dom, it was a damage reduction. But what they got was *consistent* damage as opposed to "low if you're not in dom, high if you're not." |
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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You think? ROFL|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
But if you remove the crashes of real nukes, what happens to the poor archery, AR and DP blasters? Suddenly unloved, they'll be forced to wander the land in solitude, their only companion their crashless nuke on a 20 or 40 second timer. Actually, maybe they'll be okay.
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Yeah, it was my archery blaster that made me realize that there is no legitimate game-balance reason to have nukes crash endurance. The fact that the latest blaster set doesn't have one seems to tell me the devs know this deep down. I'm kind of hoping that with dark blast's crashing nuke getting moved to blasters they'll finally knuckle down and fix them.... but then my natural pessimism kicks in.
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There is no legitimate game balance reason for blasters to have the worst hitpoints, and survival buff numbers of any of the primary damage dealing ATs
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Originally Posted by Golden_Avariel
You think? ROFL
Yeah, it was my archery blaster that made me realize that there is no legitimate game-balance reason to have nukes crash endurance. The fact that the latest blaster set doesn't have one seems to tell me the devs know this deep down. I'm kind of hoping that with dark blast's crashing nuke getting moved to blasters they'll finally knuckle down and fix them.... but then my natural pessimism kicks in. |
Looks like the person who began this thread didn't realize that Blasters get as much out of IO sets and Incarnate powers as everyone else.
When you see a Ranged softcapped Fire/Fire Blaster hovering above a group of enemies and unleashing a horrifying death inferno without taking so much as a scratch, then you've seen the face of fear.
My friend made her second build JUST for Ranged combat, eschewing the ultimate blapperdom that the Fire secondary allows for in order to launch long-distance pain and suffering (and a pretty easy s/l softcap).
When she uses her s/l Softcapped build, that's when she goes into melee and begins what she calls "Murder Time," and it has earned the capital letters. With Hot Feet, Blazing Aura, Fire Sword Circle, and Burn adding to her Fireball and RoF spamming, Murder Time when Scrappers and Brutes turn around and say, "Don't you think that's a bit excessive?"
Between her two builds, her blaster outlives almost anything. She working on a third build for Trials now in order to get more energy defense, but she says it's hard going.
...Okay screw it. I'm rolling a Fire/Fire blaster. >.>
Too many alts to list.
I hope you have the few billion Inf you will need to put that build together.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
What if I do have a few billion inf? Instead of making a badass blaster, should I save it for five discount brutes instead as an austerity measure?
For anyone who doesnt have a few billion influence lying around, making a blaster is an exercise in frustration and pain watching other At's do nearly as much damage for half the work.
Not all of us have a few billion lying around.
See my last post about old dominators, dom's who had a few billion influence and purples hanging off every attachment lost damage in the change, everyone else gained.
Blasters are weak at their base, not the purple'd out defense capped, number crunching nerd thing.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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The advantage isn't gone, it's just shifted or applied differently. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The burst damage advantage was gone long before judgement. Against all Odds+buildup, Rage+Fury+Fiery Embrace, etc really just wadded it up and tossed in the trash.
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When on my shield scrapper, AAO requires time to gather a group, in order to get the max effect. The damage boost from BU is also less frequent than my blaster alternating BU and Aim.
In practice, my blaster is preemptively buffing and delivering damage with quite a bit more reach, and making subtle adjustments for less interruption in DPS, while moving.
In some situations/groups, my fire blaster with quick animations is better equipped for the flow of the team, while in others, my scrappers added durability enables smoother offense. Both do quite a bit of burst damage, but it doesn't render either useless.
In all honesty, I'd love to jump on test with a few players to see just how people are qualifying their claims. If we're talking a super team, then yes, bring the force multipliers. If it's a more casual formation, then its more than likely a measure of the player, as opposed to the AT.
All balance has to be purely off the numbers.
You cant just have the dev's saying, Blasters need to be weaker because they are played by better players.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
One of the numbers the devs look at for this kind of thing is the popularity of the archetype. Lacking an exact quote for you, I seem to recall their i19 publicity chart showing that blasters are the most popular archetype at mid levels and still like #3 at 50. Surely they're not exclusively played, or even played well, by players who would call themselves superior.
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Here is a point, for a long time before dominator domination revamp, most players said, Dominators are fine, they dont need anything, but still they were bad enough that the devs had to nearly double their damage.
Blasters are not fine, just because 8 warm bodies can do just about anything in the game does not make them fine. |
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
All balance has to be purely off the numbers.
You cant just have the dev's saying, Blasters need to be weaker because they are played by better players. |
If Blasters' performance did not improve because of that, I'm sure they would be another round of buffage.
And if Blaster's were so superfluous and underperforming, how come side-switching didn't kill them off? How come there's always blasters on every PuG I'm on?
People kept predicting that side-switching would make Scrappers, Defenders, and Blasters go extinct. Are you participating in this thread because you're trying to force that boatload of failed prediction come true?
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
There is no legitimate game balance reason for blasters to have the worst hitpoints...
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Of all the ATs, 3 of the 4 melee ATs (Tankers, Scrapper, Brutes) have more hit points than Blasters. Blasters are *tied* in number of Hit Points with Stalkers. All other ATs have *less* hit points than Blasters.
Blaster do not only not have the worst hitpoints in the game, there are 9 other ATs with lesser hit points.
How could you be so wrong about something like this and then come into the forums and make such forceful statements based on ignorance?
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Absolutely. Blasters make a wonderful 10th member of your 8-man team.
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Originally Posted by PoliceWoman
When I'm team leader, I will pass over a blaster to get the first tanker/brute on a team, support toons if my team is low on support, or scrappers/brutes on events where melee DPS is better (e.g. ITF).
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There is actually a very good reason why blasters didnt go extinct.
Players dont want to give up their characters that they have had for a long time, there is also the situation of players playing a build really having no idea they are playing a bad build.
No one ever thought scrappers would go extinct, there is no reason, there are very very small situational differences between a scrapper and a brute.
Defenders are as good as corruptors.
Stalkers however have nearly gone extinct, I havent seen one stalker in a team in 3 weeks.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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And blasters have more melee attacks in their primary to slot valuable Kinetic Combats.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Your corruptor has better numbers for self defense and debuff.
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My Corr uses his debuffs primarily to do damage on lambda. More damage which the Blaster already has.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
The blaster needs to go for survivability you would have gotten that if you had read
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Everyone who wants to be survivable...needs to go for survivability.
Mind = BLOWN.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
LOL, maybe you aren't very good at baiting people ?
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I take it your assessment is based on your experience as a master baiter.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
How could you be so wrong about something like this and then come into the forums and make such forceful statements based on ignorance?
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My statement
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ala Zombie| There is no legitimate game balance reason for blasters to have the worst hitpoints, and survival buff numbers of any of the primary damage dealing ATs |
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
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Blaster do not only not have the worst hitpoints in the game, there are 9 other ATs with lesser hit points. How could you be so wrong about something like this and then come into the forums and make such forceful statements based on ignorance? |
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Blaster .. have the worst hitpoints in the game, there are 9 other ATs with ... hit points. |
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While I don't completely agree with the idea that you quoted, you're 'ignoring' Another_Fan based on a misquote. |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
See, when you say stuff like that, which is so, very, very wrong, you make yourself very easy to ignore.
Of all the ATs, 3 of the 4 melee ATs (Tankers, Scrapper, Brutes) have more hit points than Blasters. Blasters are *tied* in number of Hit Points with Stalkers. All other ATs have *less* hit points than Blasters. Blaster do not only not have the worst hitpoints in the game, there are 9 other ATs with lesser hit points. How could you be so wrong about something like this and then come into the forums and make such forceful statements based on ignorance? |
The comment was that there's no reason for blasters to have the worst hit points of any of the damage dealing ATs. Now I don't really agree with that, and it's also still not completely accurate, but it's far less wrong that the picture you paint.
Blasters are tied with one of the damage ATs (stalkers) and have more than dominators, but they have less HPs than the other 'damage' ATs (scrappers, brutes).
Now that aside, I do have a thought based on a comment from earlier in the thread. If it's true that blasters are the most commonly played AT at the mid levels (which is very believable), and yet drop down to the third most played AT at higher levels which kind of coincides with when the other damage ATs performances starts to but in on a blaster's (in my opinion). Doesn't that indicate some level of problem to anyone else?
It's certainly not 'OMG blasters are superfluous' level of a problem or anything, but it would seem to indicate a problem that should be, at some point, at least looked at.
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Except, he's still right. Blasters have tied hitpoints to stalkers, and more than the other primary damage dealing ATs. Corruptors are primarily about damage, as are VEATS, HEATS, and Dominators. Out of all the primarily damage dealing ATs, only Brutes and Scrappers have better HP.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Seriously Zombie if you can't read an entire sentence I have no idea where you get off complaining about others ignorance.
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Where to now?
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Yeah thats about where I had your level pegged at from your first post buckwheat.
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
I take it your assessment is based on your experience as a master baiter. |
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Yeah thats about where I had your level pegged at from your first post buckwheat.
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Then we're finally even.
Since I've had you pegged for exactly what you are long before today ever happened.
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I don't consider corruptors as primarily damage. They are balanced damage team buff/debuff|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Except, he's still right. Blasters have tied hitpoints to stalkers, and more than the other primary damage dealing ATs. Corruptors are primarily about damage, as are VEATS, HEATS, and Dominators. Out of all the primarily damage dealing ATs, only Brutes and Scrappers have better HP.
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Veats can have up to 2400 hp and you can build to get it, heats also can have up to 2400 points and can easily get there with the dwarf form.
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That's not at all what I stated.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
All balance has to be purely off the numbers.
You cant just have the dev's saying, Blasters need to be weaker because they are played by better players. |
Based on your above criteria, we can't argue for any specific re-balancing, until someone provides numbers or some form of dev validation. If the devs have decided that blasters should fall into a given range of performance, then who is to say they aren't performing as intended?
Your point counters your position, actually, as the most you've offered is that incarnate abilities have rendered entire ATs useless. Show that you understand the established intent, then show the numbers.
My only point regarding player ability, was that some of these claims being tossed around, such as being "unable function on a team of 3/TF", were overblown exaggerations. For that, we don't necessarily need numbers, though they can be acquired. A jump to test server can put such claims into perspective, rather easily.
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Tell me, what is a corruptor's primary powerset? And what is its inherent?|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I don't consider corruptors as primarily damage. They are balanced damage team buff/debuff
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Veats can have up to 2400 hp and you can build to get it, heats also can have up to 2400 points and can easily get there with the dwarf form.
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You make no attempt to rebut against the Dominator, which has less HP than a blaster. At this point, your initial statement on the matter is proved completely invalid. Blasters do not have the worst HP of the primarily damage dealing ATs.
For someone so picky about misquotes, I find it odd you don't seem to care about misinformation.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Any somewhat competent team can complete any of the trials with any composition.
Devs balance on does THIS work
Players look at balance how does This compare to That.
Blasters are functional, but I would take any corruptor or any scrapper over a blaster if given a choice.
Its a small difference but an important one.
This is why I said superfluous not Blasters arent functional.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
Blasters can get a +SM/L def shield in their epic/patron pool just like my Corr did.