Blasters surpurflous?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diellan_ View Post
where is it written that in order to do fun things or build to concept, I must play an inferior build?
I don't need to tell you: its written in Excel.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
Two things:Great, then we're on the same page. Blasters are commonly valued by high end teams, as are all the other archetypes.

Do you think grasping at straws helps your position ?

So far in this thread, people have gone from blasters are numerically fine, to it doesn't matter how gimped my toon is I'll force it down a teams throat and they will like it.

P.S. They probably wanted people that could solo cysts,oracles and generals on that ITF.


Quote:
The fact that you'd have to spend sixty dollars or whatever to kit one character out with IO boosters mainly proves that the devs are shrewd and are well aware that they only have to sell to a few big ticket buyers to make the same amount of money as they'll get by selling inexpensive costume pieces to loads of players. Of the two things, which do you think they'll be selling more of?
Proves ? Really ? I suppose the same way epicycles proved that the earth was the center of the solar system.

Anyway, here is a little question for you, about your rationalization, since when is the goal of any business "to make the same amount of money" ? Last time I checked the goal was to maximize profits.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diellan_ View Post
The Devs have regularly stated that powersets in non-Incarnate play is balanced around SOs. If they want to change that decision, then they can and I'll change the basis for my argument (at which point, I've got a whole can of worms to open up about how the ubiquity of defense set bonuses provides an unfair disadvantage to playing Fiery Aura, Electric Armor, and Dark Amor, over other other sets).
Ya know, I didn't finish reading the few more posts in this thread yet, but I had to stop and respond to this immediately. I have never seen, nor has anyone ever showed where it has been said that powersets are balanced with SO's. I remember that upon the introduction of IOs it was said that the GAME was not made any harder do to the introduction of IOs and no playable game content would be designed or redesigned to make IO's necessary.

This has been the only sentiment I can remember every being relayed to the playerbase ever since the introduction of IOs, so players wouldn't have to worry about "keeping up" if they didn't have the funds or want to make the effort to IO there characters.

It regarded the game world in which we play, not the tools we use to play in it.


Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Also even post multipurple, guess what, a Corruptor is STILL a better choice.
Except I don't want to worry about buffing/debuffing, I want to worry about dealing damage, so no a Corruptor would not be a better choice, because I'd need my secondary, to make my primary do more damage, I'd rather just us my primary and secondary to DO damage.


Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
By what measure exactly are dominators better than blasters? They get mez protection, which if we're speaking of the "average dominator" by your own standard isn't permanent so it is in many ways less useful than defiance. Their attacks are universally lower DPA than blaster equivalents and they don't get access to the really huge aoes that allow blasters to destroy full spawns at once. Control powers are all right but largely irrelevant in the late game. The one real advantage doms get is sleet in their epic pool and that's a big advantage, but does the average dom always take that specific pool? Surely not.

Sorry to keep harping on it but it really does seem like you guys just don't know what you're talking about.

Oh right, and dominators as a "ranged AT?" lol
Missed this one.

What are these huge AoE attacks that let blasters destroy spawns all at once ? Last time I checked the only AoE that could concievably knock out an entire spawn with bosses was blizzard, and to do that you would need to be buffed to the damage cap for the duration of blizzard and have every tick hit

Quote:
Their attacks are universally lower DPA than blaster equivalents
Really ?

Quote:
Control powers are all right but largely irrelevant in the late game.
Really ?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MutantX_7 View Post
Ya know, I didn't finish reading the few more posts in this thread yet, but I had to stop and respond to this immediately. I have never seen, nor has anyone ever showed where it has been said that powersets are balanced with SO's. I remember that upon the introduction of IOs it was said that the GAME was not made any harder do to the introduction of IOs and no playable game content would be designed or redesigned to make IO's necessary.
Powersets are balanced around their SO performance with regard to whether or not they are consistent with standard difficulty missions. That is not the *only* balancing criteria placed upon them, but it is one of the foundational ones.

Its pretty obvious this rule had to be true back when there was no other real slotting option (above a certain level) and the devs did say that they used hypothetical SO slotting back then to compare powerset performance. Since then, with the advent of ever more powerful slotting options, the devs have disavowed altering their base balancing criteria to factor in more powerful slotting: from HOs to inventions.

That doesn't mean those things are ignored: it means they are looked at separately. In deciding if a powerset can meet the minimum requirements set for it, obviously the devs look at SO slotting because to look at invention slotting would be contradictory to their statement that inventions are optional for standard gameplay. They also look at SO slotting for powerset intrinsic design strength. But they do look at inventions and HOs when it comes to things like maximum credible strength to make sure its not too easy to get to ridiculous levels of power, and they do game-wide balancing based on player average performance in-game which obviously factors in the average slotting of the playerbase, which includes some (probably small on average) amount of HOs and inventions.

"Powersets are balanced around SOs" is an oversimplification because "balancing" is not a single step process involving a single metric. I once posted that to my knowledge, there were at least fourteen separate individual metrics that go into powerset balancing during design and implementation that I was aware of, and Castle posted in reply that his list was somewhat longer than that. "Powersets are balanced around SOs" is one of the bigger ones, though.


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Posted

Do you honestly believe Blasters are balanced with dominators or corruptors?

Not more fun to play or like it better? Not does it function at minimal levels set forth. Soa's make blasters look so horribly bad, I dont even have the heart to bring that up

Are they balanced?


Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
What are these huge AoE attacks that let blasters destroy spawns all at once ?
What was obvious to everyone other than you who read what I said was that I was referring to the likes of fireball and bullet rain, powers in the range of damage scale where they'll kill minions with two applications (for example, bullet rain and then empty clips) with reasonable enhancement and standard damage buffing. I wasn't even referring to mini-nukes, which kill minions and lieutenants by themselves, but those are another thing doms do not get.

Your pet pool, psi assault, the only one that contains powers that look better than blaster equivalents by any measure (and which are even then worse in other ways), is a good example of this. The dom gets two aoes which simply are not going to kill the minions in a spawn without procs, musculature, some manner of outside assistance. Those two powers for blasters come in a secondary, which means they are in addition to the primary aoes that the blaster gets. The blaster likely doesn't even need them to form a good aoe chain, but if she wants them, there they are. The blaster also gets build up and probably aim, to make the dom look even sadder by comparison.
Quote:
Really ?
Yes, control powers really are irrelevant in the late game in much the same way you're incorrectly suggesting that blasters are. Except correct. You get the idea. Name a TF or trial that is is made or broken with control. The only thing that springs to my mind is the weakened hamidon.
Quote:
So far in this thread, people have gone from blasters are numerically fine, to it doesn't matter how gimped my toon is I'll force it down a teams throat and they will like it.
Yet my position hasn't changed at all. Blasters are numerically fine and they're fun to play and they can get invited to any team easily.
Quote:
P.S. They probably wanted people that could solo cysts,oracles and generals on that ITF
If you think blasters can't do that you've got another thing coming. We should TF some time, it'd be educational for you.

Looking at this post again, I know I can be more civil than this. Sorry for my rudeness. Apologies also to Arcanaville for dumping on the new character you just said you'd made, not that I assume you care what some forum jerk thinks.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shubbie View Post
Do you honestly believe Blasters are balanced with dominators or corruptors?

Not more fun to play or like it better? Not does it function at minimal levels set forth. Soa's make blasters look so horribly bad, I dont even have the heart to bring that up

Are they balanced?
Shubbie, as you haven't even tried to offer a single grain of evidence that dominators or soldiers or whatever else are better than blasters in any way, you should probably give it a rest.


 

Posted

Straight out removing the crash from nukes would be a nice start and no I don't think the damage would have to be modified.


[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Powersets are balanced around their SO performance with regard to whether or not they are consistent with standard difficulty missions. That is not the *only* balancing criteria placed upon them, but it is one of the foundational ones.

Its pretty obvious this rule had to be true back when there was no other real slotting option (above a certain level) and the devs did say that they used hypothetical SO slotting back then to compare powerset performance. Since then, with the advent of ever more powerful slotting options, the devs have disavowed altering their base balancing criteria to factor in more powerful slotting: from HOs to inventions.

That doesn't mean those things are ignored: it means they are looked at separately. In deciding if a powerset can meet the minimum requirements set for it, obviously the devs look at SO slotting because to look at invention slotting would be contradictory to their statement that inventions are optional for standard gameplay. They also look at SO slotting for powerset intrinsic design strength. But they do look at inventions and HOs when it comes to things like maximum credible strength to make sure its not too easy to get to ridiculous levels of power, and they do game-wide balancing based on player average performance in-game which obviously factors in the average slotting of the playerbase, which includes some (probably small on average) amount of HOs and inventions.

"Powersets are balanced around SOs" is an oversimplification because "balancing" is not a single step process involving a single metric. I once posted that to my knowledge, there were at least fourteen separate individual metrics that go into powerset balancing during design and implementation that I was aware of, and Castle posted in reply that his list was somewhat longer than that. "Powersets are balanced around SOs" is one of the bigger ones, though.
Oh I know that and I had spoken with Castle a few years back, I just don't like when people state it the way it was earlier.

Basically Castle told me, a power set has to perform up to a certain level with SO's to be considered playable, and can't be too powerful with IOs. I get that, but in a conversation about AT playability in a world that doesn't need topend builds to play, just irks me the wrong way, when its presented as it was earlier.

Regarding what I bolded, I guess what bother's me is that a lot of players seem to use the word balance in the context of, does x=y, if their answer is no, then its not balanced, but the actual metric that seems to be used is (overly simplified),
does x=y in z.

x= a powerset or AT (also a problem)
y= a different powerset or AT
z= the game
I would really like to see an actual play ability analysis on AT's using only the "average" (SO) play ability. Is x blaster better then y scrapper with ONLY SO's?

I just put together these two "AOE Damage" Builds, One Fire/MM Blaster and the other Fire/SD scrapper, which is better, I suppose I could also throw in a corruptor build as well, but this illustrates what I'm saying I believe.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Blaster
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Mental Manipulation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Flares -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(15), Dmg(21), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(40)
Level 1: Subdual -- Acc(A), RechRdx(50), RechRdx(50), EndRdx(50)
Level 2: Fire Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(15), Dmg(17), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(45)
Level 4: Fire Ball -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(13), RechRdx(29), EndRdx(29)
Level 6: Mind Probe -- Acc(A), Dmg(7), Dmg(7), Dmg(23), RechRdx(36), EndRdx(45)
Level 8: Fire Breath -- Acc(A), Dmg(9), Dmg(9), Dmg(21), RechRdx(31), EndRdx(37)
Level 10: Psychic Scream -- Acc(A), Dmg(11), Dmg(11), Dmg(23), RechRdx(31), EndRdx(37)
Level 12: Aim -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(13)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Concentration -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(17)
Level 18: Blaze -- Acc(A), Dmg(19), Dmg(19), Dmg(34), RechRdx(36), EndRdx(37)
Level 20: Drain Psyche -- Acc(A), EndMod(43), Heal(46), Heal(48), RechRdx(48), RechRdx(48)
Level 22: Tough -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(27), ResDam(45), ResDam(46)
Level 24: Weave -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(27)
Level 26: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 28: Super Jump -- Jump(A)
Level 30: Acrobatics -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(31)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(33), DefBuff(33), DefBuff(33)
Level 35: Assault -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Psychic Shockwave -- Acc(A), Dmg(39), Dmg(39), Dmg(39), RechRdx(40), EndRdx(40)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(42), DefBuff(42), DefBuff(42)
Level 44: Stealth -- DefBuff(A)
Level 47: Invisibility -- DefBuff(A)
Level 49: Phase Shift -- RechRdx(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(43), EndMod(43)



Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Scorch -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(13), Dmg(17), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(42)
Level 1: Deflection -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(5), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(29)
Level 2: Fire Sword -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(15), Dmg(40), RechRdx(42), RechRdx(42)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(5), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(29)
Level 6: Cremate -- Acc(A), Dmg(9), Dmg(11), Dmg(15), RechRdx(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 8: Build Up -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(9)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11)
Level 12: True Grit -- ResDam(A), Heal(13)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(17)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Acc(A), Dmg(19), Dmg(19), Dmg(21), RechRdx(21), EndRdx(40)
Level 20: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff(A)
Level 22: Tough -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(23), ResDam(23), ResDam(27)
Level 24: Weave -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(27)
Level 26: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 28: Super Jump -- Jump(A)
Level 30: Incinerate -- Acc(A), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), RechRdx(34), EndRdx(34)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- Acc(A), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), RechRdx(34), EndRdx(37)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Acc(A), Dmg(36), Dmg(36), Dmg(36), RechRdx(37), EndRdx(37)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(39), DefBuff(39), DefBuff(39)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- Acc(A)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(45), Dmg(46), Dmg(46), EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Acc(A), Dmg(48), Dmg(48), Dmg(48), RechRdx(50), EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(45)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(43), EndMod(45)
Level 4: Ninja Run


Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MutantX_7 View Post
I would really like to see an actual play ability analysis on AT's using only the "average" (SO) play ability. Is x blaster better then y scrapper with ONLY SO's?
While leveling, where the assumption is the vast majority of players are playing mostly or all SOs, blasters were dropping dead a lot more often than scrappers were, before Defiance 2.0 was introduced. I'm assuming D2.0 helped some, but I suspect it did not completely reverse that situation.

So I'm still of the opinion that its very likely that on average, when played by the statistically average player, any blaster powerset combination slotted with SOs will underperform any scrapper powerset combination slotted with SOs. On paper, a blaster combo might deal more damage but in the real world for most players it will also be dead more often.

When played by experts, sure things change. But the reason why we don't spend a lot of resources balancing for experts is not because their performance is completely irrelevant, but because experts don't need our balancing help nearly as much as the other 90%+ of players do. If an expert says he's offended he can only get ten times average performance out of his blaster build while his friend can get thirty times average performance out of his scrapper build, that just isn't as much of a problem as the average player that says he has trouble getting more than 70% of average on *any* blaster build.


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Posted

True, I suppose player ability will have ALOT more to do with any play ability then an actual build.

Like you said earlier, the more time you spend on a blaster, the less it seems problematic and the more it just is.


Active 50s:
Zero Defex: DP/MM//Mace Blaster
Mutant X-7: Fire/MM//Mace Blaster
Running my Kin/EA gloriously
Come on I21!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Sure, the devs are supposed to listen to their customers, mister business 101 out there. And if I decide to start suggesting that the devs change the game from being about superheroes and supervillains to being about clowns that is my right as well, and technically Paragon Studios is supposed to pay attention to me. But I hope strongly that they assume a meth-head somehow managed to hack into my forum account and make paper airplanes out of my posts, because I hope they recognize stupid when they see it. I assume they will recognize futile just as accurately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post
What was obvious to everyone other than you who read what I said was that I was referring to the likes of fireball and bullet rain, powers in the range of damage scale where they'll kill minions with two applications (for example, bullet rain and then empty clips) with reasonable enhancement and standard damage buffing. I wasn't even referring to mini-nukes, which kill minions and lieutenants by themselves, but those are another thing doms do not get.
So first Dominators don't get powers that have higher DPA than their blaster equivalents, now they don't get Fireball ?

Edit Corrected dominator fireball:
Dominator Fireball: Damage 71.6, cast: 1.18
Blaster Fireball : Damage 79, cast: 1.18



Quote:
Your pet pool, psi assault, the only one that contains powers that look better than blaster equivalents by any measure (and which are even then worse in other ways), is a good example of this.
You do enjoy being wrong don't you ? I'd suggest actually building a dom before saying things like that or this.


Quote:
The dom gets two aoes which simply are not going to kill the minions in a spawn without procs, musculature, some manner of outside assistance.
Fiery Assault AoEs

Combustion
Consume
Fire Breath

^ suspiciously looks like 3

Fire Epic

Rain Of Fire
Fire Ball
^ Seems to be raising the total to 5

Can't Kill minions with 2 applications ?

Embrace of fire + fire Breath + Combustion = dead minions

That doesn't even consider slotting the primary for damage or anything the pets might be doing.


Quote:
Those two powers for blasters come in a secondary, which means they are in addition to the primary aoes that the blaster gets. The blaster likely doesn't even need them to form a good aoe chain, but if she wants them, there they are. The blaster also gets build up and probably aim, to make the dom look even sadder by comparison.
Yep embrace of fire and power boost sadden me


Quote:
Yes, control powers really are irrelevant in the late game in much the same way you're incorrectly suggesting that blasters are. Except correct. You get the idea. Name a TF or trial that is is made or broken with control.
B.A.F. I don't suppose you noticed those prisoners running away ?

S.T.F. Ever notice how dangerous ghost widow is when she is held or slept ?

R.S.F. Ever notice how difficult the freedom phalanx is when you only have to fight them one at a time ?

I.T.F. Rommie - nictus ?



Quote:
We should TF some time, it'd be educational for you.
Not so much, but it would likely be amusing.


 

Posted

Uhhh, what? Dom fireball does 68 damage. Not 136! You doubled it somehow. I didn't mention it because obviously the average dom does not take a specific epic, and the clever dom takes sleet and not fireball in the first place. Dom epic aoes also have either long recharges or ludicrous endurance costs. Look at explosive blast and join me in a hearty chuckle. It's true though that if you do take an epic aoe, you will have a much easier time clearing basic spawns than a dom who has chosen to focus only on primary and secondary. My point is that blasters don't have this problem.

Bring up fiery assault if you want, but you haven't made an iron clad case there. Consume is not actually an attack for any practical purposes. Combustion is, yet it is sadly very poor. Blaster combustion may or may not be better but blaster combustion is one of the worst blaster aoes available.

Only two dom secondaries get anything like buildup. A third gets aim. None of them get power boost AND a damage buff, but even if they did, power boost doesn't do anything for damage. It's nice for controls I guess but I don't see a major need for it since the dominator inherent is basically the same thing, but for mag instead of duration.

Ever notice how dangerous ghost widow is when she's gone from full to defeated in twenty seconds? That's what I'd say for each of those examples, in fact. Now, you could say that on a pick up team that isn't likely to be capable of wiping out content so trivially control is far more useful. I would agree. In general, though, the more powerful your team gets the less control matters, but damage never stops being important.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle View Post


I didn't mention it because obviously the average dom does not take a specific epic, and the clever dom takes sleet and not fireball in the first place.
Then they get ice storm as well. All the epics include at least 1 AoE

Quote:
Dom epic aoes also have either long recharges or ludicrous endurance costs. Look at explosive blast and join me in a hearty chuckle. It's true though that if you do take an epic aoe, you will have a much easier time clearing basic spawns than a dom who has chosen to focus only on primary and secondary. My point is that blasters don't have this problem.
You have never bothered to play a psi blaster , a sonic blaster, or an electrical blaster I see.




Quote:
Bring up fiery assault if you want, but you haven't made an iron clad case there. Consume is not actually an attack for any practical purposes. Combustion is, yet it is sadly very poor. Blaster combustion may or may not be better but blaster combustion is one of the worst blaster aoes available.
Doms have access to other AoEs either from their epics, or their primary, and in the not to distant future from their pool powers as well.



Quote:
Only two dom secondaries get anything like buildup. A third gets aim. None of them get power boost AND a damage buff, but even if they did, power boost doesn't do anything for damage. It's nice for controls I guess but I don't see a major need for it since the dominator inherent is basically the same thing, but for mag instead of duration.
Energy Assault gets powerboost and every dom can get a damage buff with Soul Drain.


Quote:
Ever notice how dangerous ghost widow is when she's gone from full to defeated in twenty seconds? That's what I'd say for each of those examples, in fact. Now, you could say that on a pick up team that isn't likely to be capable of wiping out content so trivially control is far more useful. I would agree. In general, though, the more powerful your team gets the less control matters, but damage never stops being important.
Show me the blaster that can solo ghost widow in 20 seconds


 

Posted

Ice storm would be a poor example if you're trying to demonstrate that doms get powers that enable them to quickly defeat large quantities of things. Fine power but it ain't fast.

You're right, I haven't played psi, sonic or elec blasters. Psi and elec obviously underperform rather badly, except possibly at pvp for all I know. Sonic is quite good but is much better as a defender set, which is why I have two level 50 /sonic defenders. It is low aoe but then it isn't really a set that's designed for spawn clearing.

All three of these sets, of the ten total blaster primaries, twelve next issue, can make up a substantial amount of aoe if they have one of the three of six secondaries that contain lots of aoe. Your odds of randomly rolling a blaster that actually has bad aoe are right now three in fourteen, and will soon be one in eight.

Looking at the dominator sets, the ones that strike me as "good (for a dominator set) for aoe" are plant/, fire/, /fire, and /thorns. Your chances of randomly producing a dominator with good aoe are about one in two. One of these ATs is better than the other at aoe.

If the dom has soul drain, she doesn't have sleet or fireball. Instead she has dark obliteration. Is it a bad power? Well no, 48 DPA on a taoe is perfectly good. Unfortunately it also has a 32 second timer and hits about three fifths as hard as similar blaster attacks.

If you're fighting ghost widow you're either running the Daedalus arc, which literally no one has ever done, or you're on the STF. Since the STF is what we were talking about, I assume we're still talking about that. So, who said anything about "solo?"

edit: I just noticed that you've now implied that an "average dominator" is going to solo ghost widow, pfffff hahaha.


 

Posted

I see again the same 2 people complaining Shubbie and Fan.

30+ pages of a 2 person issue?

It really is simple - if you don't like blasters don't play with them. Don't make them. Don't invite them to your ERP. Don't let them in your SG. You can camp in the PvP zones and assault everyone that enters.

Meanwhile I will somehow find the courage and strength to keep playing my blaster - knowing that somehow I will miss out on the wonder of your company.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Show me the blaster that can solo ghost widow in 20 seconds
Which ghost widow are we talking about here? An EB in a Patron arc or 54 AV from STF.

I can make a video of my Fire/elec blaster doing the first as soon as I find someone with the contact. For the other, I'll dare you to show me ANY character doing it in 20 seconds.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorTractor View Post
Which ghost widow are we talking about here? An EB in a Patron arc or 54 AV from STF.

I can make a video of my Fire/elec blaster doing the first as soon as I find someone with the contact. For the other, I'll dare you to show me ANY character doing it in 20 seconds.
The level 53 AV? Eh, it'll only take a build that can put out about 2000 dps. I'll get Iggy working on one for us.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorTractor View Post
Which ghost widow are we talking about here? An EB in a Patron arc or 54 AV from STF.

I can make a video of my Fire/elec blaster doing the first as soon as I find someone with the contact. For the other, I'll dare you to show me ANY character doing it in 20 seconds.
My point exactly. There is no blaster that can defeat her in 20 seconds but she or sirocco can be removed from the battle.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades View Post
I see again the same 2 people complaining Shubbie and Fan.

30+ pages of a 2 person issue?

It really is simple - if you don't like blasters don't play with them. Don't make them. Don't invite them to your ERP. Don't let them in your SG. You can camp in the PvP zones and assault everyone that enters.

Meanwhile I will somehow find the courage and strength to keep playing my blaster - knowing that somehow I will miss out on the wonder of your company.
You still can't count, and you still can't come up with anything but "I like blasters stop saying things that upset me"

Well buck up, test your "courage and strength" and actually think about what is being said.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
The level 53 AV? Eh, it'll only take a build that can put out about 2000 dps. I'll get Iggy working on one for us.
I got it: all I need is a blaster that could be permanently at the damage cap (500%), constantly apply enough debuff to put the target at the resistance floor (-300%), and cycle energy punch continuously without pauses (103.2 base damage per second). Bingo: 2064 dps.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
My point exactly. There is no blaster that can defeat her in 20 seconds but she or sirocco can be removed from the battle.
No you missed the real point. Nothing can kill them in 20 seconds.

Yeah, I guess you could sleep them but that is completely different than "defeat." Sleep is awesome, but it sure doesn't kill anything.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Punk View Post
Whats upsetting from the opposite end of the spectrum:

Your character is fun but is still mechanically bad. Would it make your character unFUN for it to perform better?

No?

Then why the hell are you arguing?

Elec Blast is horrid for Blasters but I see people arguing its fun and this and that constantly.

Thats fine, but the argument is if your mechanically inferior or not, not if youre fun. My fun is powergaming, your fun is RPing. My fun doesnt make you have less fun, it just makes your fun fun for all because I don't have to deal with yoru subpar concept character while I'm having fun powergaming


Seriously, do you RP being a weaker mechanical set?
In my opinion, and due to MY PLAYSTYLE (how I fight enemies, in case you misunderstood...) my AT fun and strong.

Secondly, from what post did you get the words "role playing" and "concept character"? It couldn't have been mine! ;D The only thing I stated was that, in the end, it's a person's play style that can make an AT mechanically strong, not its base values. Due to my PLAYSTYLE and personality (I mean how i play, not why) I tend to enjoy blasters more than dominators.

I only read the original post, and shared my opinion instead of wasting my breath on a petty argument on who's AT is better. If you have fun with your AT then nothing else matters, I wasn't bashing other ATs. I was showing my love for my AT and stating how useless it is to argue over which one is better. Is it fair to compare a blaster to a perma-hastened MF Warshade? Obviously not. Every AT is made for a specific playstyle and mind set. I've tried dominators and I don't enjoy the "control and blast" play style. I perfer playing on the edge dishing out crazy damage, while knowing that things could go wrong at any instant because my targets actually do things.

How about an analogy for you?
If you like to hunt bears with a rifle, play a blaster.
If you like to hunt immobile wooden targets at the range, play a dominator..

Regardless, all ATs have advantages over others. It's a waste of time to get worked up about who's is better. I know blasters may have their inefficiencies for some players, but for me they are INSANELY efficient.