Blasters surpurflous?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-07-11 23:09 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
What you call temporary powers are on demand and capable of being made permanent. Dominators also have the ability to cap their hitpoints and keep them there.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Tell me, what is a corruptor's primary powerset? And what is its inherent?
Soldiers of Arachnos can get a temporary +HP power, if they don't mind a backpack. All blasters can also get a similar power. Widows of course cannot. Kheldians likewise can have extra hitpoints, temporarily, but that also very much limits their offensive abilities. Not all Kheldains choose to use dwarf at all. You make no attempt to rebut against the Dominator, which has less HP than a blaster. At this point, your initial statement on the matter is proved completely invalid. Blasters do not have the worst HP of the primarily damage dealing ATs. For someone so picky about misquotes, I find it odd you don't seem to care about misinformation. |
You view a corruptor as primary damage, when in the bulk of situations its force multiplication will be dominant.
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Fix'd. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
What you call temporary powers are on demand and capable of being made permanent and available to blasters. Dominators also have the ability to cap their hitpoints and keep them there, just like blasters, except the Blaster has higher base HP.
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Your initial statement on this matter is still invalid and still completely false.
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You're not supposed to see the Stalkers!|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Stalkers however have nearly gone extinct, I havent seen one stalker in a team in 3 weeks.
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/vanishes
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Quote:
Actually, no, making a blaster is fun. Period. I don't need "a few billion in influence lying around" for that. |
Originally Posted by Shubbie
For anyone who doesnt have a few billion influence lying around, making a blaster is an exercise in frustration and pain watching other At's do nearly as much damage for half the work.
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I don't *care* what other people or other ATs do. If I want damage with a side order of damage, I make a blaster. If I don't want to sleepwalk through a mission and actually want to have to pay attention, I roll a blaster.
Perhaps you're just no good with blasters, which is why they're an "Exercise in frustration" to you.
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Let me get this straight you are upset about my supposed spreading misinformation |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
And so do blasters, and they have higher base HP. Your statement is still invalid and still completely false.
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BUT !!!
You are saying that an AT (heats) that can set its hitpoints at 2100 and keep it there as long as it wants has less hitpoints than an at that tops out at roughly 1600 hp ?
I suppose we shouldn't count High pain tolerance as part of willpowers benefits because not everyone will have it.
Then you toss in AT that overwhelmingly derives its power from its buff/debuff and call it a primary damage dealer ?
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Ok, now you're even misquoting. We were talking about base HP, for one, and further, a Kheldian that "keeps its HP there as long as it wants" is not a damage dealer.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
You are saying that an AT (heats) that can set its hitpoints at 2100 and keep it there as long as it wants has less hitpoints than an at that tops out at roughly 1600 hp ?
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You don't count High Pain Tolerance when comparing Scrappers to Tanks, unless you're only talking about Willpower versions of each. Base HP to base HP, Blasters are not the worst of damage dealing ATs. It's that simple.
And of course a Corruptor's primary purpose on a team is to deal damage. It's primary powers are damage and it's inherent is a way to deal more damage.
You're really starting to fall all over yourself, here. It's just making things worse.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
He asked you what the Corruptor Primary Powerset andthe Corruptor Inherent are.
Those answers are Ranged Blast and Scourge.
Without addressing Dominator's and the fact that they have lower HP than Blasters, you've invalidated your statement about Blasters having the lowest HP of Damage dealing AT's.
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I don't think it's out of line to call an AT that has a primary that is damage, and an inherent that deals even more damage a "primary damage dealer." Yes, it can buff/debuff, but it is primarily a damage dealer. Most of it's time should not be spent buffing/debuffing, but killing the enemy. Sure, you can play it the other way around, but that was not its design.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
L
Then you toss in AT that overwhelmingly derives its power from its buff/debuff and call it a primary damage dealer ? |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Is there any archetype that shouldn't be spending it's time making things dead so you can get those tasty little bunches of reward?
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lolPBs. Because they can't.*|
Originally Posted by Chuckles07
Is there any archetype that shouldn't be spending it's time making things dead so you can get those tasty little bunches of reward?
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*This post is sarcastic. Mostly.
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don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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Among other criteria, sure. I notice when they ask for feedback, it's both objective and subjective. Beyond that, I don't claim to understand the extent of their current intentions, unless they specifically state them.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
Devs balance on does THIS work
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Blasters are functional, but I would take any corruptor or any scrapper over a blaster if given a choice. Its a small difference but an important one. |
No offense, but as stated, it's an arbitrary preference, without any specific context.
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| This is why I said superfluous not Blasters arent functional. |
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You were talking about base HP, I was talking about max. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison;37382 26
Ok, now you're even misquoting. We were talking about base HP, for one, and further, a Kheldian that "keeps its HP there as long as it wants" is not a damage dealer.
You don't count High Pain Tolerance when comparing Scrappers to Tanks, unless you're only talking about Willpower versions of each. Base HP to base HP, Blasters are not the worst of damage dealing ATs. It's that simple. And of course a Corruptor's primary purpose on a team is to deal damage. It's primary powers are damage and it's inherent is a way to deal more damage. You're really starting to fall all over yourself, here. It's just making things worse. |
Just an example on corruptors
Cold domination, will do 60% of its total damage from its secondary by debuffing enemies, that is not including the additional damage from the rest of the team. So when an at is deriving most of its damage from debuffing the enemies you call it a primary damage dealer.
Good to know where the goalposts are set in this discussion
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I don't think it's out of line to call an AT that has a primary that is damage, and an inherent that deals even more damage a "primary damage dealer." Yes, it can buff/debuff, but it is primarily a damage dealer. Most of it's time should not be spent buffing/debuffing, but killing the enemy. Sure, you can play it the other way around, but that was not its design.
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The power of the AT is overwhelmingly in buff/debuff. Cold/Dark,Kin, Traps are all going to generate most of their damage and or survivability (read as ability to live to do the damage) from their secondary even when solo. On any team larger than 2 or 3 the bulk of the damage of all the sets is going to come from either buffing the team or debuffing enemies.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Cold domination, will do 60% of its total damage from its secondary by debuffing enemies, that is not including the additional damage from the rest of the team. So when an at is deriving most of its damage from debuffing the enemies you call it a primary damage dealer.
Good to know where the goalposts are set in this discussion |
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It really doesnt matter is every other At is overpowered or blasters underpowered
Its the same
A corruptor or scrapper is better in any situation than a blaster.
Remember its not do blasters work
Its are blasters as good a choice as the alternatives.
Hence superfluous as in not needed because the role is already filled.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Do you have any way to demonstrate this, because your anecdotal evidence is easily countered by other player's anecdotal evidence stating the opposite.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
It really doesnt matter is every other At is overpowered or blasters underpowered
Its the same A corruptor or scrapper is better in any situation than a blaster. Remember its not do blasters work Its are blasters as good a choice as the alternatives. Hence superfluous as in not needed because the role is already filled. |
If you managed to scrap together some factual empirical evidence, that would be a lot harder to dismiss.
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#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
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Yes, they're set by someone who will compare apples to elephants to make his argument appear valid.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Good to know where the goalposts are set in this discussion
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When you can be objective or maybe just honest, I'll rejoin this discussion.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Damage-centric characters taking a backseat to buffers and debuffers in CoH? Someone alert the presses. Re: endgame and trials, if anything incarnate powers have helped blasters and stalkers because no one cares what you are when everyone is rocking Barrier, Rebirth, Lore pets, and a level shift or three.
PenanceжTriage
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Actually, if you have a tanker/brute, some support and/or control on the team, I'm trying to think of a situation where in a pure number perspective a blaster isn't better than a scrapper. :-/
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
It really doesnt matter is every other At is overpowered or blasters underpowered
Its the same A corruptor or scrapper is better in any situation than a blaster. Remember its not do blasters work Its are blasters as good a choice as the alternatives. Hence superfluous as in not needed because the role is already filled. |
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Whats funny to me is you probably believe that I am making the unreasonable comparisons.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Yes, they're set by someone who will compare apples to elephants to make his argument appear valid.
When you can be objective or maybe just honest, I'll rejoin this discussion. |
When all you have to do to make your argument is ignore, what the various ATs can do, what is readily available to them, and turn a blind eye to even the simplest math that contradicts you.
edit:Let me ask, because I have seen this elsewhere here and it repeatedly crops up. Is this a religious issue for you ? Is the idea just not able to process for you ? And to be clear, it crops up on the forums.
I know in the the cottage rule thread, you couldn't deal with the idea that blasters weren't doing the most damage. I also recall you bringing a tank to fullmens thought experiment thread concerning scrappers and defense debuff resistance. But you think other people aren't making fair comparisons ?
really no way to put together factual numbers without access to data-mining.
I dont think ive ever seen anyone say Controllers, defenders, scrappers, brutes, corruptors are underpowered or not needed....
MM's are often mentioned in overpowered threads, except for mercenaries....oh well every AT has its bad sets.
Dominators are generally well regarded now. Tanks have been knocked, but generally seem well regarded at the moment.
Soa's are so loloverpowered its not even funny.
Kheldians seem to alternate between overpowered and underpowered depending on the day, time of day, weather, general state of the universe, whims of fancy or whatever else happens to be going on, Ive stopped trying to figure this one out.
So that leaves Stalkers and blasters.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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There hasn't been any math done to contradict anything that's been said against your opinion. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Whats funny to me is you probably believe that I am making the unreasonable comparisons.
When all you have to do to make your argument is ignore, what the various ATs can do, what is readily available to them, and turn a blind eye to even the simplest math that contradicts you. |
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
really no way to put together factual numbers without access to data-mining.
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Murphys Military Law
#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.
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Again, no offense, but then it may be best to stop making such claims, if they can't be supported.|
Originally Posted by Shubbie
really no way to put together factual numbers without access to data-mining.
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But, as I stated earlier, there is the possibility of copying over to test server and running herostats for the course of an ITF or something, then exporting the data. You'd get a fair idea as to who and which power is contributing what, so far as the damage contribution goes. Set up and agree on the criteria, and move from there.
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I disagree. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
"Hey, bring whatever you want, just don't be a twit."
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You should bring the twits too, they're entertaining!
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Superflous no, room for buffing, possibly.
I agree with the people who said the place to start is the crashing nukes. The penalty exceeds the utility. This would also hopefully make nukes a bit more attractive for Defenders.