Green Lantern: The Early Reviews Are Bad. Really Bad.


Acemace

 

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Originally Posted by Chrome_Family View Post
GL SHOULDN'T be compared to X-men or Thor.. is GL a god? is GL a Mutant? NO... its different.
"All of my fellow Asgardians are gods."

"All of my fellow Green Lanterns are aliens."

"Ahh, but didst thou know that in my movie the Asgardians are though of as gods AND aliens, or didst Thor just blow thine mind?"


AE Arcs: #10482 N00b Rescue Duty, #164100 The Four Treasures of the Tuatha De Dannan

 

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Originally Posted by Samothrake View Post
Since we're talking all things Hal GL here, refresh my memory with where I have this memory from.
I specifically recall reading a GL story of Hal's early carreer. He was in jail and had just recently gotten the ring. I think he was freshly back from a training session on OA. Well, anyways, the thing that sticks out in my mind is that he made a "Hal" construct in his jail cell so he could go out and do the hero thing. And specifically this construct was not green. It looked just like Hal. Because, as his instructor told him, while the energy used to make the construct is green, the construct doesn't have to be green. This little revelation was used a few times in the comic, but I don't know if this is still canon or not.
That was Emerald Dawn I or II, I can't remember which, and it was a good story written by Gerard Jones, I think. In fact, Willie, Hal's cellmate was so fooled by the construct that he didn't notice it wasn't real until he accidentally stepped through it.

That was back before Geoff "Retcon" Johns pushed me away from the book, y'see.


"America is about speed. Hot, nasty, bad-[censored] speed."
-Eleanor Roosevelt

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Just tossing in that Redbox did their review where the reviewer openly admits they weren't looking forward to the movie and still gave it a 3 star rating.

Link


 

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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
You can only assume that based off of the comic character, since there is nothing in real life that is equivalent of getting freaking super powers...

I know for a fact I sure as hell wouldn't be acting like a mature adult if I suddenly found myself possessing super powers. Hell I don't act like a mature adult without them.


 

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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
I know for a fact I sure as hell wouldn't be acting like a mature adult if I suddenly found myself possessing super powers. Hell I don't act like a mature adult without them.
I'm old enough to be concidered a mature adult, but I'm not anywhere close to being mature. If I was given power, I sure as hell would be hooting like a cowboy in a rodeo. I'd show off to friends definately, and probably would even stop people on the streets to have them check out the cool things I could do.


 

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I have to say I liked it. So did my father (went for father's day) and he collected the Green Lantern comics back in the 40's and 50's so his word is good enough for me

I like Green Lantern, I'm not a big fan, but I'm not a stranger to the story either. I have long since learned to 'turn my brain off' to a lot of the technical aspects of a film and just watch it.

The CGI wasn't bad but in a few places where you could see the 'zippers' so to speak. The acting was good enough... The biggest complaint was a few areas of pacing seemed off somehow, but there was a lot of story to get through.

At the end of the day, it's an action movie about a popular comic book hero. I liked the theme they were trying to present (I actually liked the Parallax origin story and look far better than the comic one). For those who think Parallax looked like a big dust creature, watch carefully for the faces stretched in agony and the skeletons of its victims reaching out to pull others in over the length of its psuedopods. I liked the character of Hal Jordan. Not exactly the way he was presented originally in the comics, but this one fit into the story well with the theme of awakening the courage within himself. I can see the Hal Jordan we know being better represented in sequels, or a JLA movie, if they do either. This was about him maturing and 'coming into his own' responsibilies.

All and all a fun film. I think we need to stop over analyzing these movies for the most part and just enjoy them for what they are, or they're going to stop making them.


"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.

 

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Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
I'm old enough to be concidered a mature adult, but I'm not anywhere close to being mature. If I was given power, I sure as hell would be hooting like a cowboy in a rodeo. I'd show off to friends definately, and probably would even stop people on the streets to have them check out the cool things I could do.
I'd definitely show off to friends, but not in public...don't want the government monitoring me (probably even more) lol


 

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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
I'd definitely show off to friends, but not in public...don't want the government monitoring me (probably even more) lol
Let them try...


 

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Originally Posted by Innovator View Post
I'm old enough to be concidered a mature adult, but I'm not anywhere close to being mature. If I was given power, I sure as hell would be hooting like a cowboy in a rodeo. I'd show off to friends definately, and probably would even stop people on the streets to have them check out the cool things I could do.
The difference between Joe Random Guy getting superpowers and someone who is supposed to be a hero getting them is exactly this point: maturity. There's reveling in the awesomeness of the powers and then there's acting like a goofball frat guy.

The worst aspect of Superman Returns was that Superman used his powers for creepy, inappropriate and therefore non-heroic activities. Sure, many of us would be tempted to play peeping tom if we were given x-ray vision, but the point of Superman is that he's a decent guy who wouldn't do such a thing.

It kind of looks like they were going for Hal being all jazzed by these abilities (because who wouldn't be?), but they handled it incorrectly. I have to assume it's because this is a frankenscript. If rumors are to be believed (and in this case they probably can be), there were 11 to 13 writers who took a pass at the screenplay. It's conceivable that the producers and director decided to take elements they liked from any number of those previous efforts, nevermind the hash they made of the story.


The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction

 

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The worst aspect of Superman Returns was that Superman used his powers for creepy, inappropriate and therefore non-heroic activities. Sure, many of us would be tempted to play peeping tom if we were given x-ray vision, but the point of Superman is that he's a decent guy who wouldn't do such a thing.
The best way I was able to justify that scene is that it was trying to illustrate how much of an outsider he was. He was the protector looking over everyone, however this also allowed him to see a life he could never have, but wanted. Makes it a little less creepy, but I'm not going to try too hard to defend a movie I really didn't like anyway for so many other reasons.


"I play characters. I have to have a very strong visual appearance, backstory, name, etc. to get involved with a character, otherwise I simply won't play it very long. I'm not an RPer by any stretch of the imagination, but character concept is very important for me."- Back Alley Brawler
I couldn't agree more.

 

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Originally Posted by Ironik View Post
The difference between Joe Random Guy getting superpowers and someone who is supposed to be a hero getting them is exactly this point: maturity. There's reveling in the awesomeness of the powers and then there's acting like a goofball frat guy.
All that comes in time for Joe Random Guy if he doesn't go all villany, but in the beginning I very much expect frat boy antics.


 

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The critics are not "nerdraging" or "not getting it"

Let me put it this way...
There are very few movies that are less than passable... and those that are, are often so bad that they provide a laugh at how crappy they are which makes them better then an "average" movie

So to say that "Oh I enjoyed watching it" well no ****... Most if not all movies that are in a genre you like are going to be "enjoyble" to some degree. Does that may it good? No.

But it's good... right? No. Even if I take out the fact that it is GL it is not a good movie. They is crappy cuts and horrible story pacing and far too much focus on things they shouldn't have and far too little on things they should have. The movie based on it's on merits is mediocre at best and bad at worst since most film grads would never make the type of errors in this movie's editing.

But let's add in the fact that it is GL... The characters have none of the characteristics from the comics OR those characteristics are the faux version that can often be mistaken for the right version if glanced at...and when you write from a place you just glanced at the source material it shows. This is why Hal Jordan is not Hal, Sinestro is not Sinestro, The Guardians are not the Guardians, Hector Hammond is not Hector Hammond, and Carol Ferris is not Carol Ferris. And that's just characterization and not the facts of the story like the planet they landed on is supposed to be the home of the Red Lanterns, the Guardians would have told Sinestro it's stupid to form yellow rings because that's not how it works, and there is no more yellow impurity because parallax isn't in the battery any more, Oh and lets not go into the fact that Parallax doesn't look like a bug anymore, which its design is based off the innate fear that man has.. or just how ugly the costumes are...even in comic format.

Oh, and what about the writing. Its bad and doesn't seem to even pay attention to itself. The Omniscient Narrator speaks 2 or 3 times... once at the beginning and once somewhere in the middle. The narrator tells you the wrong information when it says "Green Lanterns are without fear" not once but twice (different ways mind you) and yet the whole friggin point of the movie is not that a GL is without fear, but rather has the ability to OVERCOME fear.

So I'm looking at a bad to mediocre film on its own merits then it gets almost every element of its license wrong and lets tie in the fact it cost, what? 300 million dollars to make? where as I can probably name several low budget high quality movies that are way better in every aspect or perhaps we can compare it to it's own genre family of adaptation superhero movies that are far better with less...in almost every aspect.

The movie has all that against it... and then you look at the potential and how disappointing the movie is to anyone that recognizes good film making and knows the story and the disappointment makes the 1* rating seem generous.



And as far as those saying "it doesn't have to get the elements right" I'm sorry, but I pay money for a Movie of a concept/character whatever. If nothing but the skin of that movie is that, then you are defrauding people in my opinion...and that goes for all media. Movies get away with this crap too much and it is why we don't have good movies coming out any more.

I hate the fact that movies get away with being able to #1 remake the same thing ove3r and over again or make adaptation where as in other mediums that hardly ever happens... and #2 lie about the product that they are delivering to us. They give you a surface experience of this or that license, but the substance is completely lacking and in effect it becomes a completely different product thus making the sales a fraud imo.


And further GL also suffers from the fact it opened against Thor which is at the heart of the matter the same movie done better for the same amount and is true to it's source material.

So when you combine those 6 (i think) things I mentioned you end up with a movie to anyone with a clue that is utter crap from any direction you look at it.


 

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Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
The critics are not "nerdraging" or "not getting it"

Let me put it this way...

There are very few movies that are less than passable... and those that are, are often so bad that they provide a laugh at how crappy they are which makes them better then an "average" movie

So to say that "Oh I enjoyed watching it" well no ****... Most if not all movies that are in a genre you like are going to be "enjoyble" to some degree. Does that may it good? No.


But it's good... right? No. Even if I take out the fact that it is GL it is not a good movie. They is crappy cuts and horrible story pacing and far too much focus on things they shouldn't have and far too little on things they should have. The movie based on it's on merits is mediocre at best and bad at worst since most film grads would never make the type of errors in this movie's editing.


But let's add in the fact that it is GL... The characters have none of the characteristics from the comics OR those characteristics are the faux version that can often be mistaken for the right version if glanced at...and when you write from a place you just glanced at the source material it shows. This is why Hal Jordan is not Hal, Sinestro is not Sinestro, The Guardians are not the Guardians, Hector Hammond is not Hector Hammond, and Carol Ferris is not Carol Ferris. And that's just characterization and not the facts of the story like the planet they landed on is supposed to be the home of the Red Lanterns, the Guardians would have told Sinestro it's stupid to form yellow rings because that's not how it works, and there is no more yellow impurity because parallax isn't in the battery any more, Oh and lets not go into the fact that Parallax doesn't look like a bug anymore, which its design is based off the innate fear that man has.. or just how ugly the costumes are...even in comic format.


Oh, and what about the writing. Its bad and doesn't seem to even pay attention to itself. The Omniscient Narrator speaks 2 or 3 times... once at the beginning and once somewhere in the middle. The narrator tells you the wrong information when it says "Green Lanterns are without fear" not once but twice (different ways mind you) and yet the whole friggin point of the movie is not that a GL is without fear, but rather has the ability to OVERCOME fear.


So I'm looking at a bad to mediocre film on its own merits then it gets almost every element of its license wrong and lets tie in the fact it cost, what? 300 million dollars to make? where as I can probably name several low budget high quality movies that are way better in every aspect or perhaps we can compare it to it's own genre family of adaptation superhero movies that are far better with less...in almost every aspect.


The movie has all that against it... and then you look at the potential and how disappointing the movie is to anyone that recognizes good film making and knows the story and the disappointment makes the 1* rating seem generous.




And as far as those saying "it doesn't have to get the elements right" I'm sorry, but I pay money for a Movie of a concept/character whatever. If nothing but the skin of that movie is that, then you are defrauding people in my opinion...and that goes for all media. Movies get away with this crap too much and it is why we don't have good movies coming out any more.


I hate the fact that movies get away with being able to #1 remake the same thing ove3r and over again or make adaptation where as in other mediums that hardly ever happens... and #2 lie about the product that they are delivering to us. They give you a surface experience of this or that license, but the substance is completely lacking and in effect it becomes a completely different product thus making the sales a fraud imo.



And further GL also suffers from the fact it opened against Thor which is at the heart of the matter the same movie done better for the same amount and is true to it's source material.


So when you combine those 6 (i think) things I mentioned you end up with a movie to anyone with a clue that is utter crap from any direction you look at it.





Words to live by..


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"Green Lantern" is enjoyable overall, and I had a good time. Quite frankly, I was primarily relieved that it was not a sneering camp-fest take on GL. Hollywood does not look kindly on anyone who sets themselves up a as a foe to "Evil," but fortunately this was not another Batman TV series or something worse.

Super hero films that do very well seem to have one or more of the following: 1) a riveting performance 2) an engaging/compelling story 3) a sense of fun and some "wow." Green Lantern could have easily had more of the last two if the creative team had done just a bit better.

Story: As others have noted, there are scenes that are too short, and others that do not logically flow into each other. Plot holes show up. Logic lapses. There are FOUR writers, and it shows. (If I see one more super hero with "Daddy Issues," I am going to scream, and not only do those get wedged into the plot, our intrepid writers add some "Daddy Issues" for one of the baddies, too. Geez Louise.) The resolutions of the challenges posed by the villains seem pretty sudden and perfunctory. I was not too happy with the notion that Hal Jordan does not appear to know how to use the Ring, and his "training" seems to be having other Green Lanterns tell him that he does not know how to use the Ring while beating him up. And as in most super hero movies where the protagonist is not invulnerable, Hal takes enough injury to incapacitate several ordinary humans and yet keeps on functioning, unless we need him helpless for an involuntary mind-meld. In short, there are annoyances of varying degree in the story overall and in divergence with the GL canon that are bothersome. They are ultimately just that, however, annoyances.

Fun and Wow: A Green Lantern can construct literally ANYTHING, and now with CGI, such flights of fancy can finally be depicted onscreen. I for one was hoping to see something "fun" in the constructs. For example, I was REALLY hoping we would see GL do an Ice Slick in green, complete with baddies slipping and falling as they try to escape. I think audiences would have liked that. Alas, there was nothing really as fun as that, nor any construct that was a WOW, either. There are some reasonably good ones, but not any that you will leave the theater wanting to tell your friends about, and that is too bad. It did not have to be that way.

There is also going to be the same frustration with GL as I have with Superman: If they use their powers to full potential, the fight is over in seconds. There is no dramatic tension. (There is a cartoon in which the Joker tells Batman that he can save either Rachael or Harvey Dent, but he cannot possibly get to both of them, and then Superman suddenly appears carrying the both of them. He then tosses the Joker into outer space and asks Batman if he wants to go get a beer. THAT sort of thing.) GL does not show us what he has very much here, and is more "under-powered" than usual.

HOWEVER

I liked it overall and am glad I saw it.

The movie gets a LOT of things right. The Oath is presented in a straightforward manner with no sniggering. Sinestro looks great and is well presented. The notion that the Ring could seek out one who would combat Evil and have no fear is seen as reasonable, and indeed, correct. (Although I would have laughed if after Abin Sur tells the Ring to bring him "someone without fear" if Daredevil had returned in that green bubble. )

The acting is acceptable, not as terrible as the critics would like to let on. Now, there are no compelling performances. But if you switched Ryan Reynolds and Robert Downey Jr. between their films, would Iron Man be as good without the Downey Personna? Would his personna even work as well in "Green Lantern?" Everyone does a reasonably good job, and Ryan Reynolds is fine given what he has to work with.

This is an easy film for critics to turn their noses up at. I think a basically Noble hero will have rough sledding critically unless a lot of things hang together just right.

If you go in not expecting greatness and willing to enjoy the things that are done right, you will have a good time I think. I did.


"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

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Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
The acting is acceptable, not as terrible as the critics would like to let on. Now, there are no compelling performances. But if you switched Ryan Reynolds and Robert Downey Jr. between their films, would Iron Man be as good without the Downey Personna? Would his personna even work as well in "Green Lantern?" Everyone does a reasonably good job, and Ryan Reynolds is fine given what he has to work with.
The acting is the best part of the movie by leaps and bounds... it's just that hat they were told to act like isn't what they should have been.

One of the worst scene in my opinion to this effect is actually the scene where Tomar-Re says "We're going to fly now" and Hal falls down and then comes back up... This isn't Hal Jordan. This is a Parody of Hal Jordan. Why?

The ring is based on will power, and even though it would be a bit of a copy cat emulation of every super hero with flying heroes ever... the first thing Hal Jordan should have done IS fly, by accident. They should have had Ferris suspend him and then have him "long to fly" after seeing Abin Sur's crashed space ship... and then he just starts floating up... They then could have had a scene where he buzzes by people on the streets and has a good time, because if there is one defining characteristic of Hal it is that he love to fly.

RR would have pulled this off easy but it wasn't what he was given... All the Actors did a great job with what they were given. Everything else...falls on it's *** though.


 

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Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
One of the worst scene in my opinion to this effect is actually the scene where Tomar-Re says "We're going to fly now" and Hal falls down and then comes back up... This isn't Hal Jordan. This is a Parody of Hal Jordan. Why?
I think you are spot on there. Which of the four writers thought this was funny? That scene was in the motif of "Hal does not know how to use the Ring" which was a detraction. The acting cannot be blamed for such things.


"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

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Seeing as how the ring was sent out to find someone without fear and is worthy in the DC universe...why didn't it go and grab Bruce Wayne?


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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Seeing as how the ring was sent out to find someone without fear and is worthy in the DC universe...why didn't it go and grab Bruce Wayne?
According to earlier canon, Guy Gardner was supposed to get the ring but Hal was simply closer, so that rationale could be extended to your question as well.


- CaptainFoamerang

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Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang View Post
According to earlier canon, Guy Gardner was supposed to get the ring but Hal was simply closer, so that rationale could be extended to your question as well.
Correct. Hal was on the west coast and Guy was on the east cost so that would also put both Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent as too far away given the fact that Abin Sur's time was running out.

There was a later story that showed Abin's crash and the ring selected a candidate and brought him to him but it was Clark Kent. Upon scanning him and seeing that he was Kryptonian, Abin told him that only natives of the planet/sector could be chosen. Clark gave him some first aid to prolong his life and Abin memory wiped him and sent him back. The ring then detects Hal and Guy and Abin chose Hal since time was running out and Hal was closest.

(Krypton was in Tomar Re's sector and there was a tale about how Tomar failed to save Krypton but the Guardians forgave him for that as Tomar's failure still gave rise to Superman)

In Superman TAS: Abin's ring went to the Daily Planet and latched onto Kyle Rayner, however had Clark been there at the time and not out as Superman I suspect the ring would have gone to him.


 

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Originally Posted by Durakken View Post
And further GL also suffers from the fact it opened against Thor which is at the heart of the matter the same movie done better for the same amount and is true to it's source material.
Green Lantern is rumored to have cost the studio $200M, so Thor, having cost "only" $150, is in a somewhat better position (stronger opening weekend, less competition, better timing). Matthew Vaugan, director of X-Men: First Class (also doing better than Green Lantern, but not great), is calling this summer the beginning of the end of the big-budget superhero movie. Of course, we shall see how Captain America does in July, then the Avengers and Dark Knight Rises next year.


 

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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman View Post
Green Lantern is rumored to have cost the studio $200M, so Thor, having cost "only" $150, is in a somewhat better position (stronger opening weekend, less competition, better timing). Matthew Vaugan, director of X-Men: First Class (also doing better than Green Lantern, but not great), is calling this summer the beginning of the end of the big-budget superhero movie. Of course, we shall see how Captain America does in July, then the Avengers and Dark Knight Rises next year.
Beginning of the end of big-budget superhero movies? They're already planning Thor 2 and Captain America 2, and I have full faith in seeing Captain America be this big hit.

X-Men (while I enjoyed the movie) had a few things going against it, and it was going to be hard to break past it. First there was X3. Then there was the fans (face it, some fans were not going to give X-Men FC a chance with how far off from comics that it was). And third, which I havent seen mentioned, it was set in the 60's. This will likely not be a problem for Captain America. But for X-Men, I think it may have caused some issues for one reason or another.

And we've already seen a few ont he forums say "Rotten Tomatoes rated it at 20%, so I'm skipping it" now add to that for wider population, and more so with the economy and some people not wanting to risk seeing a movie based purely on critics.


BrandX Future Staff Fighter
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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
And we've already seen a few ont he forums say "Rotten Tomatoes rated it at 20%, so I'm skipping it" now add to that for wider population, and more so with the economy and some people not wanting to risk seeing a movie based purely on critics.
Rotten Tomatoes often lauds movies I scorn and bombs movies I enjoy. It should not be taken as holy writ unless it usually is in line with your own assessments.

Things are crazy when the RT rating gets as much press as it does. Heck, it even shows up in Roger Ebert's negative review of Thor:

"Here is a film that is scoring 79% on Rotten Tomatoes. For what? The standards for comic book superhero movies have been established by "Superman," "The Dark Knight," "Spider-Man 2" and "Iron Man." In that company "Thor" is pitiful. Consider even the comparable villains (Lex Luthor, the Joker, Doc Ock and Obadiah Stane). Memories of all four come instantly to mind. Will you be thinking of Loki six minutes after this movie is over?"

I would not agree with his assessment of Superman being a great film nor Gene Hackman's Luthor a great villain, but I liked the others. I therefore do not rely on Ebert's rating, either. He hated Green Lantern, and I had a good time overall. Not in the category above, more's the pity, but still enjoyable.


"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"

"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."

 

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Originally Posted by Melancton View Post
Rotten Tomatoes often lauds movies I scorn and bombs movies I enjoy. It should not be taken as holy writ unless it usually is in line with your own assessments.

Things are crazy when the RT rating gets as much press as it does. Heck, it even shows up in Roger Ebert's negative review of Thor:

"Here is a film that is scoring 79% on Rotten Tomatoes. For what? The standards for comic book superhero movies have been established by "Superman," "The Dark Knight," "Spider-Man 2" and "Iron Man." In that company "Thor" is pitiful. Consider even the comparable villains (Lex Luthor, the Joker, Doc Ock and Obadiah Stane). Memories of all four come instantly to mind. Will you be thinking of Loki six minutes after this movie is over?"

I would not agree with his assessment of Superman being a great film nor Gene Hackman's Luthor a great villain, but I liked the others. I therefore do not rely on Ebert's rating, either. He hated Green Lantern, and I had a good time overall. Not in the category above, more's the pity, but still enjoyable.
Agreed. I don't see how Superman is the standard. And personally, I enjoy Thor WAY more than I do Superman. And agreed on Lex Luther. Gene Hackman is awesome, but his Lex was...sadly didn't feel like Lex.


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