Green Lantern: The Early Reviews Are Bad. Really Bad.
By
Acemace,
Posted on: 2011-06-16 04:32 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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The character as portrayed on screen which is not Hal Jordan would act the way he acted at that second...|
Originally Posted by Nericus
What is he supposed to do? Curl into a fetal position on the ground in fear and suck his thumb? GL's are chosen for their ability to overcome fear/being fearless. If a new GL transported to Oa caved into fear I daresay the guardians would rip the ring right off their finger and send the person back to their planet.
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Hal Jordan wouldn't have though. He would have went looking for answers.
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I think this movie gave us more the Emerald Dawn Hal Jordan rather then the post GL:Rebirth Hal Jordan.|
Originally Posted by Durakken
The character as portrayed on screen which is not Hal Jordan would act the way he acted at that second...
Hal Jordan wouldn't have though. He would have went looking for answers. |
In Emerald Dawn: Hal was so screwed up by his father's death that he was an arrogant jerk who could barely keep a job at Ferris aircraft and got drunk at a bar and caused an accident that left one friend in a hospital and him facing DUI charges when the ring chose him. Tomar Re told Hal that all GL's have a past as it were and that they must overcome it to be a true GL or some such.
Hal's current origins kept a few things from Emerald Dawn such as watching his father's plane go down but he didn't turn into a drunk screwup from it, he was always confident and felt fearless since watching his father die was what he considered his greatest fear and having seen that, what else is there to be afraid of?
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Hal's origin and backstory since GL:Rebirth restored him and the GLC doesn't quite fit with Emerald Dawn.
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Originally Posted by Durakken
That's the thing. Hal ISN'T a screw up or a jackass.
He's angry at the world due to his father's death and that pisses off his older brother. To get away from that he joins the military. His contracts a fatal illness and he want's to go see her before she dies. The military won't allow it so he knock's his commanding officer on his *** and is kicked out, but makes it home too late. So he is angry at Feris and angry at himself when the story starts and he has a "people who get near me die" thing so he's a loner. This leads him to be semi-suicidal and bent on proving his worth, not to others, but to himself... Everyone else considers him the perfect soldier/pilot that is not only willing to do risky things but able to do them. The company he works for is bought by Ferris and everyone quits due to not liking Ferris. He is asked to come work by Carol because she knows he is the best. They get into fights because Ferris is struggling to maintain the company and Hal tends to blow up/crash experimental planes. if I remember right there is something about DUIs in there too, but that is hardly a "screw up" but rather what an average pilot is like so that also is not a "screw up" in that sense. His jackassy appearance has more to do with circumstance than who he is which is coupled with a self hatred and determined focus to do what he wants. I liked that too... too bad it lasted all of 3 minutes or less. |
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Iron Monger
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Ah thank you
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Might be best if we not feed the Durakken. The point is, there has indeed been more than one interpretation of Hal's origin over the years, and the filmmakers borrowed from more than just post-Rebirth for this. I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice the possible inspiration from Emerald Dawn, Nericus.
People who didn't like the movie aren't going to like it. People who did like it will continue to do so. I'm in the latter camp, and hoping they can build on what's been done here toward something better in a potential sequel.
There is an art, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. --The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
I thought it was ok. Not on par with Batman Begins or the Marvel stuff but it wasn't bad. A thing that bugged me was Amanda Waller. It was really out of place.
MisterPiggins!
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That was both stories...|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Hal's origin and backstory since GL:Rebirth restored him and the GLC doesn't quite fit with Emerald Dawn.
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Emerald Dawn takes place after all that stuff...
Emerald Dawn's "I'm such a mess up" thing is actually the DUI I was talking about. He drinks and gets into a car accident... and then despite having the ring fesses up to it and serves his time.
Secret Origin cuts out Legion...and adds other stuff that happens that very well would have worked with Emerald Dawn and i view the two stories as both canon, just slightly focusing on different parts of what is happening.
Oh btw... The Power Ring actually restructures Hal's brain we find out in one story which is which is the explanation as to why he is such a great GL. Abin tells the ring in such a way as to force it to find a successor among humans, it can't find one good enough in enough time so it creates one that is perfect in Hal Jordan...
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Yes, I remember this, not sure if it is still canon though with all the GL:Rebirth and Parallax stuff. Back when GL had no series of his own and was relegated to Action Comics, didn't he appear on the Oprah show and Oprah suggest that he use the ring to allow himself to feel fear? Supposedly that was the door that helped let Parallax into Hal. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
Oh btw... The Power Ring actually restructures Hal's brain we find out in one story which is which is the explanation as to why he is such a great GL. Abin tells the ring in such a way as to force it to find a successor among humans, it can't find one good enough in enough time so it creates one that is perfect in Hal Jordan... |
Of course there was the whole Lord Malvolio incident as well, where Hal ended up with his ring destroyed and was forced to improvise a weapon and use deadly force against Malvolio. Hal then takes Malvolio's ring as his own and flies off and Malvolio reveals he is very much alive and that it is all part of a plan against the Guardians.....
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Originally Posted by Bad_Luck
I thought it was ok. Not on par with Batman Begins or the Marvel stuff but it wasn't bad. A thing that bugged me was Amanda Waller. It was really out of place.
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Yeah I was curious why they had Amanda Waller in there...isn't she mainly a bad guy in/against Batman (or just the JL in general? I only know her from the JL/JLU cartoons
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She works for the government/CADMUS which tends to be involved in researching of new weapons, new tech, superhumans and aliens. |
Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Yeah I was curious why they had Amanda Waller in there...isn't she mainly a bad guy in/against Batman (or just the JL in general? I only know her from the JL/JLU cartoons
). |
Afterall, wouldn't the govt. love to reverse engineer Abin Sur's ship, or imagine if they tried to get a power ring for study and reverse engineering?
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It happens in Action Comics when they were doing weekly anthology (i think that's what it is called) issues. Not sure if she said he should do that or if it was oprah but he did appear on an Oprah style show and he said he doesn't feel fear and that he is like a cop...which got a negative reaction due to the perspective that Hal isn't risking his life due to the ring.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
Yes, I remember this, not sure if it is still canon though with all the GL:Rebirth and Parallax stuff. Back when GL had no series of his own and was relegated to Action Comics, didn't he appear on the Oprah show and Oprah suggest that he use the ring to allow himself to feel fear? Supposedly that was the door that helped let Parallax into Hal.
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Originally Posted by Energizing_Ion
Yeah I was curious why they had Amanda Waller in there...isn't she mainly a bad guy in/against Batman (or just the JL in general? I only know her from the JL/JLU cartoons
). |
For those of you who don't know there are 3 GL movie prequel comics...
Tomar-Re which has him chasing down a bad guy and fighting him on the planet the movie opens to.
Kilowog which focuses on how legendary various characters are, establishes some of the "new" recruits, but more so focuses on a psychic telling the guardians something bad is going to happen
Abin Sur which focuses on Abin Sur arresting a criminal for transporting stuff through the Sol System...and he makes a mistake by leaving the cargo behind which crashes to Earth...The rest of this focuses on a young Amanda Waller fighting the machine virus and her winning, and Abin sur being impressed.
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Heh, the instant someone dons a power ring their life is very much on the line. The ring doesn't make one invincible after all. |
Originally Posted by Durakken
It happens in Action Comics when they were doing weekly anthology (i think that's what it is called) issues. Not sure if she said he should do that or if it was oprah but he did appear on an Oprah style show and he said he doesn't feel fear and that he is like a cop...which got a negative reaction due to the perspective that Hal isn't risking his life due to the ring.
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Yeah I remember now, it was that talk show story that prompted Hal to use his ring to make himself feel fear. Many suspect that was the door in which parallax got in.
The whole Lord Malvolio thing could also be said to be a Sinestro/Parallax mind attack on Hal since it got Hal to be without his ring and had to use deadly force on Malvolio.
The alien Priest and all the things he did with Hal could also be seen as a Parallax/Sinestro attack, especially the GL special issue where a Guardian and a Zamaron took a friend of Hal's hostage and made it clear his friend would die unless Hal kills Priest. Turned out it was all an illusion, no Guardian, no Zamaron, even the planet Oa was fake and it was all a mind game of Priest to see if Hal was "contaminated" after his encounter with Malvolio and from using Malvolio's ring.
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Waller is a Justice League and apparently Superman villain type...I've yet to see her in the 7 years of Superman comics I've read so far though >.> For those of you who don't know there are 3 GL movie prequel comics... Tomar-Re which has him chasing down a bad guy and fighting him on the planet the movie opens to. Kilowog which focuses on how legendary various characters are, establishes some of the "new" recruits, but more so focuses on a psychic telling the guardians something bad is going to happen Abin Sur which focuses on Abin Sur arresting a criminal for transporting stuff through the Sol System...and he makes a mistake by leaving the cargo behind which crashes to Earth...The rest of this focuses on a young Amanda Waller fighting the machine virus and her winning, and Abin sur being impressed. |
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She was in the first TPB of Superman/Batman. Luthor ended up kissing her. Pam Grier played her in Smallville. Also played a role in 52 and with the Suicide Squad.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
I think Waller was in one of the Batman/Superman issues where they were going around Earth trying to confiscate/destroy all traces of Kryptonite and Superman was wearing some type of anti Kryptonite armor.
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Waller is more of an all-around bad guy than specific to Superman.
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Corrected for you |
Originally Posted by Dark One
Waller is more of an all-around bad *** than specific to Superman.
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I would argue that Waller is not a bad guy per se, she's generally on the side of right, she just has a very harsh way of going about it, with things like the Suicide Squad, the Eclipso task force, etc.
As for the portrayal of Hal, well, worked fine for me. People have to stop expecting it to be just like in the comics. I've yet to see ANY superhero film that gets it right in matching all the things in the comics, even the Superman movies got it wrong, with things like amnesia kisses and levitation fingers. Recent Batman movies changed a LOT to suit the film and it worked great.
I see the same here. The basic principles of the character are right. Hal was always a flawed man, trying to deal with his life and issues and having amazing power thrust upon him and how he deals with that. Over the years he matured but at first, he was an airforce flyboy, with various origins showing he was a bit of a screw-up mess, with things like DUI's, jail time, being a loner, emotional fallout over his fathers death etc.
For me, they got Hal very right and I liked that. It was Hector Hammond they completely changed, and again, totally worked for the film.
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This movie was not better than Thor or X-Men - First Class. Me and my friends came out of this movie with the like opinion on that. Actually, a lot of comparisons between this and the Thor movie was made as it had similarities, but we all thought that Thor was better film by far. |
Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
As far as the movie itself goes, though, I actually enjoyed it quite a bit. I thought it was better than both Thor and X-Men: First Class.
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To be fair, I saw great potential in the story in Green Lantern, and generally liked the performances of the actors (except on one teary eyed scene). I could see there was supposed to be a good movie there in the scenes, however, that was shreded in the editing process which made the story incoherrent (egads, you could actually see where scenes where supposed to go but didn't, it was that obvious.), and slowed the pacing to boring, so much so you weren't really sure when to be excited when it was supposed to be so, which is weird to say for a Summer Action Film. I can't even classify this movie as a popcorn flick it was so dull, I mean Transformers was bad, but at least it was entertaining. I did not like Green Lantern as shown, but hope in the future there will be a better cut sold when the DVD's are released.
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Uh, yeah.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
What is he supposed to do? Curl into a fetal position on the ground in fear and suck his thumb? GL's are chosen for their ability to overcome fear/being fearless. If a new GL transported to Oa caved into fear I daresay the guardians would rip the ring right off their finger and send the person back to their planet.
In the original Tron, FLynn gets zapped into the computer and his first thought was "this isn't happening, only think it's happening" he soon found out it was happening and he reacted with the Kevin Flynn style of humor that the character had at the time. |
To answer your question: He's supposed to react to these amazing, unprecedented experiences as a real person would (a mature adult--not the never-grew-up "Peter Pan" man-child of this movie); and not behave in a goofy, comical, completely unbelievable manner per a screenwriter's contrivance to set up a cheap, easy, dumb laugh.
They could have used a lot of different folks from DC who would have as much recognition and made more sense, but since she had almost zero impact it's a minor thing.
MisterPiggins!
Comics Shaven Forums
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This basically, but I would also add 'not a scientist' or whatever the movie one was.
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Originally Posted by Coin
I would argue that Waller is not a bad guy per se, she's generally on the side of right, she just has a very harsh way of going about it, with things like the Suicide Squad, the Eclipso task force, etc.
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MisterPiggins!
Comics Shaven Forums
Just a quick note on the movie characterization of Hal-
They tried to stress that he's unique because he feels fear and overcomes it, yes. However, they stressed WAY too much the fact that he feels fear. The specific example is his plane crash early in the film: he "pulls an Iron Man", disobeying orders to win (which is a fine move for Hal) but then while he's spiraling downward and having flashbacks to his father's death (which could have been compressed into about a 6-second montage) he completely locks up and just fails. What SHOULD have happened was he had a quick flashback, then shook it off and pulled up at the last possible second, possibly doing a barrel roll and shooting "Woo Hoo!" You get the flashback, you get the fear, and you get the overcoming of fear. Hal still gets chastised by Ferris, plot resumes, no problem.
i'm blaming this on the writer... and producers... and not a good enough director/editor to screw off. the movie is lacking in Oan parts, but even with that fact you could probably cut together better movie largely by cutting away a lot of the hammond scenes, some of the jokey stuff of hal's and splicing footage and adding some voice overs... though it would probably run shorter by a lot it would be a far superior film
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You can only assume that based off of the comic character, since there is nothing in real life that is equivalent of getting freaking super powers...
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Originally Posted by Todogut
Uh, yeah.
To answer your question: He's supposed to react to these amazing, unprecedented experiences as a real person would (a mature adult--not the never-grew-up "Peter Pan" man-child of this movie); and not behave in a goofy, comical, completely unbelievable manner per a screenwriter's contrivance to set up a cheap, easy, dumb laugh. |
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Originally Posted by Innovator
This movie was not better than Thor or X-Men - First Class. Me and my friends came out of this movie with the like opinion on that. Actually, a lot of comparisons between this and the Thor movie was made as it had similarities, but we all thought that Thor was better film by far.
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I don't get why people do this... WHY compare? They are two totally different heroes.. Ugh the movie wasn't as bad as people say. I enjoyed it as did many in the theatre (who couldn't stop talking through the damn thing).. the critics see Ryan Reynolds and probably thought this was supposed to be a comedy LOL and didn't laugh since he was serious majority of the movie.
Hey remember a few years back they wanted Jack Black to play GL and this movie was supposed to be a comedy? Maybe they thought the same lol.
Marvel and DC heroes are vastly different.. GL SHOULDN'T be compared to X-men or Thor.. is GL a god? is GL a Mutant? NO... its different.
Maybe comparing GL to Silver Surfer in Fantastic Four 2... since they are both space heroes? maybe...
I am reading a lot of comments from people who haven't even seen the movie.. go watch it and form your own opinions.. instead of following others.
(Above comment not meant for you Innovator by the way)
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We weren't comparing it cause of the heroes. Thor kept being brought up because there were main story elements that were the same: A story set in two different worlds, one CG, one real, and a hero and a villain that similarly felt to be dissapointments to their fathers, and the parallels in motivation between them, as well as we had seen both in 3D. |
Originally Posted by Chrome_Family
I don't get why people do this... WHY compare? They are two totally different heroes.. Ugh the movie wasn't as bad as people say. I enjoyed it as did many in the theatre (who couldn't stop talking through the damn thing).. the critics see Ryan Reynolds and probably thought this was supposed to be a comedy LOL and didn't laugh since he was serious majority of the movie.
Hey remember a few years back they wanted Jack Black to play GL and this movie was supposed to be a comedy? Maybe they thought the same lol. Marvel and DC heroes are vastly different.. GL SHOULDN'T be compared to X-men or Thor.. is GL a god? is GL a Mutant? NO... its different. Maybe comparing GL to Silver Surfer in Fantastic Four 2... since they are both space heroes? maybe... I am reading a lot of comments from people who haven't even seen the movie.. go watch it and form your own opinions.. instead of following others. (Above comment not meant for you Innovator by the way) |
As I said it's not we didn't see a better movie in Green Lantern, but it felt to us the guy who edited it (we looked at the credits and saw it wasn't the director) didn't get the story that was trying to be told or the studio called for re-edits to set-up a second film that caused the proper story flow to be lost. For instance, the stinger in the movie obviously wasn't meant to be a stinger but part of a vision that Hal gets when he touches the ring to Paralax hence why Hal went back to OA. As it stands it makes little sense in the movie in context. Also there were a lot of spectacular epic parts of this movie that got lost as it had no build up before it, or you got a jump cut to it that was so jarring you had to reconcile what just happenned before you can enjoy the action sequence set before you. This movie was just frustrating.
Since we're talking all things Hal GL here, refresh my memory with where I have this memory from.
I specifically recall reading a GL story of Hal's early carreer. He was in jail and had just recently gotten the ring. I think he was freshly back from a training session on OA. Well, anyways, the thing that sticks out in my mind is that he made a "Hal" construct in his jail cell so he could go out and do the hero thing. And specifically this construct was not green. It looked just like Hal. Because, as his instructor told him, while the energy used to make the construct is green, the construct doesn't have to be green. This little revelation was used a few times in the comic, but I don't know if this is still canon or not.
He's angry at the world due to his father's death and that pisses off his older brother. To get away from that he joins the military. His contracts a fatal illness and he want's to go see her before she dies. The military won't allow it so he knock's his commanding officer on his *** and is kicked out, but makes it home too late. So he is angry at Feris and angry at himself when the story starts and he has a "people who get near me die" thing so he's a loner. This leads him to be semi-suicidal and bent on proving his worth, not to others, but to himself... Everyone else considers him the perfect soldier/pilot that is not only willing to do risky things but able to do them.
The company he works for is bought by Ferris and everyone quits due to not liking Ferris. He is asked to come work by Carol because she knows he is the best. They get into fights because Ferris is struggling to maintain the company and Hal tends to blow up/crash experimental planes.
if I remember right there is something about DUIs in there too, but that is hardly a "screw up" but rather what an average pilot is like so that also is not a "screw up" in that sense.
His jackassy appearance has more to do with circumstance than who he is which is coupled with a self hatred and determined focus to do what he wants.