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Here's the thing: Trials are quick.|
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
I'm only speaking for myself, here.
I don't play much; maybe 6-8 hours a week, broken into 3-4 play sessions. I have only ever done two to three Task Forces, back when I had more time to play. I mostly run Tip Missions, because that way I can "save up" my play time (by earning Hero Merits) to get "good stuff". I run solo, or team with my spouse (who plays even less than I do), or with a very short list of friends. Before the Incarnate system, I was excited at the prospect of getting to Level 50 on either of my "mains". I could then fine-tune them with the Invention system, particularly with Hero Merits, and get them to the very upper levels of performance. Even with my quite-limited time investment, I could "max out" a character. And as others have mentioned, CoX is actually pretty good, in general, at making sure you do feel that you're getting better-and-better - you can take on larger spawns of higher difficulty; there was an "awesome level" that I could attain, even playing on a purely casual basis. Now, there's a level of power I'll simply never obtain. It is my feeling - and I understand some will debate the "truthiness" of it, but it's definitely my feeling - that my play-time doesn't suit itself to Incarnate Trials. And I now feel as if the "upper echelons" of gameplay - which I was once able to look forward to reaching, on a "wow, imagine that I can get there someday" - are now out of reach. And it's dramatically altered my interest in playing characters over level 40. I still make new alts, and I still enjoy the game. And yeah, I still run Tips on my 40+ characters, sometimes. But on the whole, the entire game is less engaging, specifically because there's a whole scale of power I know I'm never going to reach. A solo option that I could work on at my own pace - even glacier-slowly - would keep me working towards Incarnate power. But currently, they're essentially unachievable to me. tl;dr - The reason the "fun" drained is that the goalposts moved. I was working on the old goalposts, and comfortable with my rate-of-advancement towards them; I now feel I'll never reach the new goalposts. That changes the "fun quality" of running towards them. |
Seriously. Incarnate trials are very quick compared to TF's. The major time sink tends to be setup time rather than actual playing time.
And the rewards are also significant: Until T4 (which is the equivalent of purple drops, which is still ridicilously rare) you pretty much earn a constant advamcenet: (heck, you don't even have to COMPLETE a trial if you don't want to, simply finishing a few objectives is going to earn you a few threads, enough that you can save up and get your stuff in time)
And as mentioned, the WST's are a perfectly valid way of advancing (at least up to uncommon level, it gets more expensive if you want to get rares) along the incarnate tree as well. Three WST's and you have two Tier 1 powers, for instance.
EDIT: When it comes to "time required to get a return" I'd definitely say the trials are far more efficient than running TF's for reward merits.
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
I play the trials willingly and a lot. It's about all I've been doing since they came out. I am closing on having run about 300 trials split about evenly between the two we have. (I wrote a log parser to gather statistics about my trials, so that's not a guess.)
Now that the "new shiny" effect has worn off, and many people have gotten their favorite/main characters high degrees of incarnate progress, there aren't as many iTrials being run*. Sometimes, I'm on when there aren't enough people to form a league with. Sometimes, I really don't want to play with the only people who happen to be looking for one.
So what happens when I can't find or form a league? Most often, I end up logging off. Pursuing Incarnate progress is what I want to do right now, but I can only do it at a reasonable pace if I can find 12-16 other people or so to do it with. If there was something I could do solo for when there isn't a league that wasn't glacially slow in comparison, I would do that.
Plus, let's be honest here. Before these trails, if there was an issue with two new TFs in them, how many people would run ~300 of just those two TFs? I'm willing to bet not that many. I'm willing to bet not that many people have run 300 of these. But if we want to progress multiple incarnates, that's what's basically what we have to do to achieve that right now. Another trial will help, but then those of us pursuing incarnates are going to descend on that like a swarm of locusts, and then we'll be slavering for the next iTrial and grumbling about thin availability of leagues when the new shiny has worn off the new trial.
That's why I want a solo option. I want something I can do that doesn't depend solely on my ability to find a fairly large number of other people who have the same goals I do.
* Almost everyone forming a league on Justice forms them "by hand" with people in Pocket D, and if there's no one in there, there's nothing forming. I have never been added to a league on Justice via the LFG queue, even though when I use it I always select "first available" and "willing to join in-progress."
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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I really don't disagree with you, just pointing out something that the problem you're facing now with fewer people running the iTrials would occur far earlier with a solo path. It would be alleviated in that you could still go down the [slower] solo path for the abilities, but iTrials would slow down.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
That's why I want a solo option. I want something I can do that doesn't depend solely on my ability to find a fairly large number of other people who have the same goals I do.
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Folks can make a very fair argument that if people don't want to do the iTrials don't force them to do them. Make the content worth doing on the content's merit.
Not too sure where you stand on the Alpha Shard Uncommon->Rare conversion, but that is a comparatively far better rate than what you have to deal with on the thread-grade components, but again, I don't think many soloists are that happy with that rate either.
More broadly, I think the problem with lack of iTrials forming could be greatly alleviated if they improved the turnstile so it let you do missions while waiting in the queue. Even without an improved solo path, you could still do something [even something as banal as your 5 tip missions for Alignment merits or whatnot]. And it would provide good synergy for a solo path to pursued simultaneously. I'd be cautious on that because it would tend to lend itself to 'something else you gotta do every day' type deal like the one iTrial/day e-merit feels. But a lot of that depends on specifics and what not. Doing my 25 dailies, my one random heroic every day, and my pvp raid, weekly raid, and current new tier raid once every week is pretty tiring
.Personally, I like to see 'previous' tiers of incarnate abilities become easier to obtain as other newer stuff comes out. Making it so difficult to 'catch up' is a bad thing for a progressive end-game. Especially one that is built around pugs instead of supergroup progression.
Let's Dance!
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I would be OK with that, because we would all have an alternative. When people want to level today, they don't just run TFs all the time. Some people might, but some people run missions, some farm, some solo and some team. The situation with the iTrials isn't comparable to anything we've had before, because they're basically our only path to progress. I would wager that people run them far, far more than other prior new content for that reason alone. I don't see why we should be concerned if formation of a Trial wasn't happening dozens of times a day per server, because that's not what happens with TFs or non-Incarnate trials. We do it now because we have to. If we didn't have to, not being able to would be less of a problem.|
Originally Posted by reiella
I really don't disagree with you, just pointing out something that the problem you're facing now with fewer people running the iTrials would occur far earlier with a solo path. It would be alleviated in that you could still go down the [slower] solo path for the abilities, but iTrials would slow down.
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More broadly, I think the problem with lack of iTrials forming could be greatly alleviated if they improved the turnstile so it let you do missions while waiting in the queue. Even without an improved solo path, you could still do something [even something as banal as your 5 tip missions for Alignment merits or whatnot]. And it would provide good synergy for a solo path to pursued simultaneously. I'd be cautious on that because it would tend to lend itself to 'something else you gotta do every day' type deal like the one iTrial/day e-merit feels. But a lot of that depends on specifics and what not. Doing my 25 dailies, my one random heroic every day, and my pvp raid, weekly raid, and current new tier raid once every week is pretty tiring .
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Quite, although a side point. You could possibly compare it to the Task Force Commander badge. Which is a non-insignificant portion. And I'd also bring up Portal Jockey before the AV downgrades [but as you can conceded, that was toned back |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I would be OK with that, because we would all have an alternative. When people want to level today, they don't just run TFs all the time. Some people might, but some people run missions, some farm, some solo and some team. The situation with the iTrials isn't comparable to anything we've had before, because they're basically our only path to progress.
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].I do get your point though, and t he benefit from the accolade badges is significantly less than the benefit than the comparative Incarnate Abilities.
Let's Dance!
Quote:
This. But also, not this.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
The trials take 30-40 minutes if you don't count the time spent forming them. On a less populated server during off-hours, that time can be significant.
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It's still the fact that if I run a Trial, at (let's say) 45 minutes from "Hey, I should do a Trial" to "Woot, my Reward Table result!", that's between half and all my playtime of one evening, and 1/3rd to 1/8th of my playtime for the week. That's a pretty significant portion of my gameplay.
And, as noted, large-sized team playing isn't a "big thing" for me, for any of my toons, before level 50.
And, I hadn't mentioned it before, but because of my situation, I also have to be able to take occasional 5-7 minute gameplay breaks mid-session. I might not have to at all, on any given night; but I absolutely have to have the ability to do so. I've 'lost' Friends-list people over this before - which I actually completely understand.
That said, "30-40 minutes" is substantially different from the "about an hour" I'd been hearing, and different enough to make a "weekly" Trial roughly do-able, ish; and I appreciate that. I might try one sometime, then.
All of that said, I stand by the thrust of my post - there are people for whom the "moving goalposts" is a factor, and the fact that only one style of gameplay - which is essentially not even possible before level 50 - can be used to advance "beyond" that level.
I realize I'm pretty intensely saying, "TFs and Trials aren't possible for me", and I suspect it'll be pointed out - and I agree - I'm pretty much a minute minority. But it's noteworthy that until the introduction of Incarnate content, there was very, very little I was absolutely excluded from (essentially, the TFs themselves) because of those restrictions - it was just that some things might (would) take much more time.
Edit to add -
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Also, doing the Weekly Strike Target is an absolutely reasonable way to engage the Incarnate system now. You can easily move up towards uncommons on a casual play schedule doing them.
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But your suggestion that the WST provides an alternative to me, when my post is about how I find it difficult to run Task Forces seems ... well, it doesn't actually sync up well with the well-reasoned observations made in the rest of your post.
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I caught that (TFs being hard for you), but again, I want to challenge some of your perceptions. TFs can be a pain, but the WST is usually MUCH easier to get people to do. Especially, if it's a super quick one.|
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
But your suggestion that the WST provides an alternative to me, when my post is about how I find it difficult to run Task Forces seems ... well, it doesn't actually sync up well with the well-reasoned observations made in the rest of your post.
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This week we have a bit of both. The Villain respec is a snap, the hero one a pain. If you have a rogue, vigilante or villain you want to Incarnate, a quick run at 20-30 doesn't seem like it's such a bad thing. But it does require getting to know your servers' global channels and such. It does require some out of game planning that may not be your thing, but is a means to advance if you want.
Finally, if you can catch a Lady Grey or Imperious TF week, those typically have LARGE amount of speed runs going on. Most folks if you just tell them you don't have a lot of experience will be happy to show you what to do. On Justice, many times so long as you don't afk the whole thing, we're cool with new folks.
Good luck.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Some of the task forces can be ridiculously fast if done as a speed run I think may have been his intent. You can see some fast numbers about on these boards, yes, it is largely from folks having incarnate abilities, but you don't necessarily have to be one of those folks for that sort of time. Just need to right WST.|
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
But your suggestion that the WST provides an alternative to me, when my post is about how I find it difficult to run Task Forces seems ... well, it doesn't actually sync up well with the well-reasoned observations made in the rest of your post.
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Or alternatively, if you have a group of folks with similar ideals, you could approach the TFs like some of the initial design and play them over multiple sessions.
Let's Dance!
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Fair enough. I have run TFs, and they were fun; I'm not unwilling to run them (again). I just don't have the hours in the day. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I caught that (TFs being hard for you), but again, I want to challenge some of your perceptions. TFs can be a pain, but the WST is usually MUCH easier to get people to do. Especially, if it's a super quick one.
... Good luck. |
And I suspect that I'm not the only one.
Not directing this at you, personally, Geko, but there are many who are able to trial, trial, TF, trial, and don't understand that others don't have that kind of time - even if they'd like to.
And the most recent set of offerings seems directed more at those with "more time to play" than the previous several years' worth did.
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Just one thing I'd like to point out that popped into my head when reading this: yes the Trials are short by design. An individual trial can be run very quickly. But how many trials does it take? Since I haven't done them I honestly don't know, but my impression is it takes quite a few (as in more than a dozen). So while yes an individual trial is short the overall time investment required is quite large. But then, that's typical of endgame grinds. All the ones I've ever seen are set up that way, so in that regard CoH's is no different.|
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
Fair enough. I have run TFs, and they were fun; I'm not unwilling to run them (again). I just don't have the hours in the day.
And I suspect that I'm not the only one. Not directing this at you, personally, Geko, but there are many who are able to trial, trial, TF, trial, and don't understand that others don't have that kind of time - even if they'd like to. And the most recent set of offerings seems directed more at those with "more time to play" than the previous several years' worth did. |
I think what does give us a slightly different situation is that, as ThatGuy said in his first post, prior to now a solo player could achieve the exact same "level of power" as a team player. That is no longer the case. It is that change that has caused me to question the lack of a solo option in this system.
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Damnit. That was exactly what I've been trying to say, yeah.
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Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
...prior to now a solo player could achieve the exact same "level of power" as a team player. That is no longer the case. It is that change that has caused me to question the lack of a solo option in this system.
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But you basically did say that in your first post. |
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
Damnit. That was exactly what I've been trying to say, yeah.
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I think I personally have been too concerned with dancing around the issue and pie-in-the-sky game theory debates to be able to just state it that succinctly. Seeing your post made me think "yes! that's what I've been trying to say."
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This will sound odd since it runs counter to what I just said |
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
And the most recent set of offerings seems directed more at those with "more time to play" than the previous several years' worth did.
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.But, I just disagree with you, iTrials are significantly shorter than most content that's come out in this game.
About the only time I'd see differently if you are talking about individual missions. Speed TF/SFs do run pretty fast, but many of those are only really getting that fast thanks to Incarnate abilities now. STF and Kahn come to mind really. As hyperbole, it feels like the fight with Reichsman in Kahn lasts as long as the freaking BAF does.
Unless you're contrasting against individual missions. Which I guess I can understand, but would simply pose that individual missions haven't really been a focus imo.
Let's Dance!
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The precedent was set in the game long before incarnates were concieved. Pretty sure it was Geko that said the reason for increasing mission xp bonus was because the dev team wanted the players to play the missions they had created, and stop street sweeping.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
True story: A dev told me in beta they were afraid people wouldn't run the trials they put so much work into if there was an alternative (even if the alternative was slower).
Instead of just making sure the trials are fun and stand on their own merits, they decided to force play of them by making them the only way to advance. |
Not saying its right. I have never enjoyed being told by the dev team what to play.
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One of the reasons why I love the trials is that they can be done easily in less that 45 mins. Right around the time it takes my sons to nap. Fancy that.
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Originally Posted by reiella
But, I just disagree with you, iTrials are significantly shorter than most content that's come out in this game.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
And? The best way to make money off us is to keep us entertained and happy. What's insulting about it?
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Only it isn't. The best way to make money off us is to get us addicted to an unhealthy degree.
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| That's what the Incarnate system is designed to do, and that is what I find insulting. I'm just getting a little weary of Skinner box design games. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I have, but only once, I think.|
Originally Posted by TonyV
I don't think I've ever personally teamed with Golden Girl,
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Maybe she hates Infinity.
Or maybe she hates New Yorkers.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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the issue is looking at the second half of your post, i dont see saying rational things really affecting your opinion. you already discounted not only the current system but any future system so for you it really probably is the end, and as i said earlier, changes will always count as the end for some people, the best ones also indicate the beginning or the return for others, we will see how things shake out, but i have been here for 7 years, i have seen the general capacity of how much they can produce at any one time, and how willing they are to change things to be more user friendly (do you remember when almost every arc in the endgame ended with an av that only a few at the time could solo? they changed that after getting enough feedback and getting the time to implement it) |
Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
The problem is the system has already been optimised by the current market leader.
But no rather than having y'know a normal TF sized team advancement mode (which might be a little bit slower than the raid (I believe they are called 'heroics')) as well as the raids, they went just with raids and told us there might be pie for us tomorrow. Unfortunately 'tomorrow' appears to be a mixture of condescending parental ‘maybe’ and Valve time. I.E ‘Maybe in two years after subscription numbers have slipped to the point we are worried about our jobs’. |
my view is simply to be realistic, they can put only so much content out at a time, so things work gradually, but i have faith based on prior behavior that it will get better, there will be more and more angles. if you don't, then it probably is time that a line has been crossed and you just don't find it fun here anymore, but i have to stress that from my observations over 7 years this 22nd, is that that is not how they work, you just need a reasonable expectation of how much they can do in an issue.
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The thing was though, the accolades aren't your only means of progressing your character. You don't have to wait until 50 to earn TF Commander. You can run around racking up XP, and if there are other people interested in doing a Posi, you do a Posi. If there aren't you go back to getting XP, and keep progressing that way, while keeping yourself available if someone does want to do a Posi later. But if you're 50, have all the accolades and a complete IO build, the trails are the only way you can progress that character, which means if you don't have enough people online who also want to do trials your progress grinds to a halt. Time to log off. Which makes you unavailable if someone does decide to do a trial.|
Originally Posted by reiella
Quite, although a side point. You could possibly compare it to the Task Force Commander badge. Which is a non-insignificant portion. And I'd also bring up Portal Jockey before the AV downgrades [but as you can conceded, that was toned back
]. |
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
The precedent was set in the game long before incarnates were concieved. Pretty sure it was Geko that said the reason for increasing mission xp bonus was because the dev team wanted the players to play the missions they had created, and stop street sweeping.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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for lambda, i have seen it take between 4-5 runs for me to get interface and about the same for destiny. bafs take longer, maybe 10 runs if you arent on the ambush team and just focus on the avs. it takes less time if you are good with the market and have extra cash, 2.5 mill really sint that hard if you just cash in 2 aligment merits, get something like a kinetic combat and pop up 100+million. lesss if you actually are savvy with the market, im not, an 88 or even my one sgmate can make several times that in a few minutes, but im going for the foolproof way. that can chop off significant amounts of ixp needed.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
Just one thing I'd like to point out that popped into my head when reading this: yes the Trials are short by design. An individual trial can be run very quickly. But how many trials does it take? Since I haven't done them I honestly don't know, but my impression is it takes quite a few (as in more than a dozen). So while yes an individual trial is short the overall time investment required is quite large. But then, that's typical of endgame grinds. All the ones I've ever seen are set up that way, so in that regard CoH's is no different.
I think what does give us a slightly different situation is that, as ThatGuy said in his first post, prior to now a solo player could achieve the exact same "level of power" as a team player. That is no longer the case. It is that change that has caused me to question the lack of a solo option in this system. |
trials can stack pretty fast, so i have had nights where in a 2 hours i have run 4 successful bafs with no prisoners escaped(more astral merits), you are on lb, right, i know you are a liberty-ite. You will undoubtedly say that 20 runs is too many for judge and lore(about 10 each if you dont cash in or get on ambush teams), but that really is only 10 hrs, and on lb we tend to run 3-5 at a time, so you will have little standing around and much quick, competent teams.
one other thing i have to address, soloist could achieve the same amount of power technically as teamers during the io era(back when hamis buffed more, teamers had a distinct advantage unless they had a teaming alt or a sg sugardaddy to give them ho's) it was not as easy, several recipes were locked behind running tfs, so you had to either be fantastically lucky with a boss(they had a low drop rate), or got preternaturally lucky and got a full purple set from drops,you had to farm, or you had to buy them at inflated rates from the market. none of those were particularly "fun-speed" for a dedicated solist, a teamer always had a distinct advantage, and if you had a good number of alts you wanted to power up, it really became significantly difficult to run at parity with a teamer for a non farmer/marketeer. so while your statement was technically correct, you would be hard pressed to say it was realistic for a good portion of players who would be dedicatedly soloing because of shyness, time or system issues.
I see everyone keeps saying "the iTrials are quick, just do them!". The problem for me is that they are simply NOT fun. I've tried them and words can't describe my utter lack of enthusiasm when I try to think about doing them again. Having my teeth pulled would be a more enjoyable experience.
Right now, I'm waiting to see if the Dev's will give us a viable alternate path, which the current Shard conversion path isn't. I can average about 1 hour of play per day, and in that hour I'm lucky if I see one Shard drop. I'm currently estimating that it'll take me a bit over a year to unlock and common slot the current 4 post-Alpha Incarnate branches on a single character. That is a bit slower than even "glacial" in my book.
I play games to have fun. When a game stops being fun, I take my money elsewhere. At the moment, I'm still having fun. But the Dev's need to stop focusing exclusively on a single play style. For those out there who enjoy the Trials I say Great! Enjoy yourselves, have fun! Just keep in mind not everyone likes the same things you do or can play as long or as often.
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While it wasn't AS easy to get purpled and IOed out while solo, it was nowhere near the gap that currently exists for incarnate buffs. I farmed and paid inflated prices for my build, yes, but was able to do so by what I did solo in game. I was done with that first build in what I felt was a properly comparable time to the time spent by my team-minded brother.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
one other thing i have to address, soloist could achieve the same amount of power technically as teamers during the io era(back when hamis buffed more, teamers had a distinct advantage unless they had a teaming alt or a sg sugardaddy to give them ho's) it was not as easy, several recipes were locked behind running tfs, so you had to either be fantastically lucky with a boss(they had a low drop rate), or got preternaturally lucky and got a full purple set from drops,you had to farm, or you had to buy them at inflated rates from the market. none of those were particularly "fun-speed" for a dedicated solist, a teamer always had a distinct advantage, and if you had a good number of alts you wanted to power up, it really became significantly difficult to run at parity with a teamer for a non farmer/marketeer. so while your statement was technically correct, you would be hard pressed to say it was realistic for a good portion of players who would be dedicatedly soloing because of shyness, time or system issues.
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As for the HO period... I was one of the evil punks that would show up during the hold phase.
Be well, people of CoH.
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In regards to the number of trials required, are those numbers you're stating to completely get all the way to Tier 4 in all the currently available slots? The reason I ask is I have seen people claim they have done 100+ trials and STILL aren't "done" with the slots currently in game. Not contesting your numbers, just confused because the numbers you're stating seem quite low compared to what I've seen others say. Again, I don't know, because I won't touch the trials myself with a 10 foot pole. |
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
for lambda, i have seen it take between 4-5 runs for me to get interface and about the same for destiny. bafs take longer, maybe 10 runs if you arent on the ambush team and just focus on the avs. it takes less time if you are good with the market and have extra cash, 2.5 mill really sint that hard if you just cash in 2 aligment merits, get something like a kinetic combat and pop up 100+million. lesss if you actually are savvy with the market, im not, an 88 or even my one sgmate can make several times that in a few minutes, but im going for the foolproof way. that can chop off significant amounts of ixp needed.
trials can stack pretty fast, so i have had nights where in a 2 hours i have run 4 successful bafs with no prisoners escaped(more astral merits), you are on lb, right, i know you are a liberty-ite. You will undoubtedly say that 20 runs is too many for judge and lore(about 10 each if you dont cash in or get on ambush teams), but that really is only 10 hrs, and on lb we tend to run 3-5 at a time, so you will have little standing around and much quick, competent teams. one other thing i have to address, soloist could achieve the same amount of power technically as teamers during the io era(back when hamis buffed more, teamers had a distinct advantage unless they had a teaming alt or a sg sugardaddy to give them ho's) it was not as easy, several recipes were locked behind running tfs, so you had to either be fantastically lucky with a boss(they had a low drop rate), or got preternaturally lucky and got a full purple set from drops,you had to farm, or you had to buy them at inflated rates from the market. none of those were particularly "fun-speed" for a dedicated solist, a teamer always had a distinct advantage, and if you had a good number of alts you wanted to power up, it really became significantly difficult to run at parity with a teamer for a non farmer/marketeer. so while your statement was technically correct, you would be hard pressed to say it was realistic for a good portion of players who would be dedicatedly soloing because of shyness, time or system issues. |
As for time required to outfit a character solo in the IO system: my Warshade is my absolute favorite character. If I had to declare any one character my "main" it would be him. As a result, he's the one I've spent the most effort into outfitting. I don't know how much in total the IO's in his build would "go for" on the Market, but at a guess I would say at least a billion, possibly more. I've known people to immediately roll up Warshades themselves after seeing him in action. I achieved this on him in a little over a month of dedicated play after he hit 50. Now granted, that was not 100% solo, but the vast majority of it was. So I guess I disagree with your contention that truly maxing out a character through solo play is prohibitively time intensive. I will concede though, that back before the merit rewards system it would have been much worse than it is now.
Quote:
Hmm isn't it easyioer to get purpled out as Solo? At least as a farming build?
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
While it wasn't AS easy to get purpled and IOed out while solo, it was nowhere near the gap that currently exists for incarnate buffs. I farmed and paid inflated prices for my build, yes, but was able to do so by what I did solo in game. I was done with that first build in what I felt was a properly comparable time to the time spent by my team-minded brother.
As for the HO period... I was one of the evil punks that would show up during the hold phase. |
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