So Solo Friendly Incarnate Path=Team?
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2011-05-25 15:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
The lab isn't too bad, but the warehouse has the same "whiteout" bug that some of the Cimeroran maps had when your graphics settings are low. It's also present in the new warehouse maps in regular missions. Apparently it contributes to lag.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I'm not sure what's going on there, Eva, as I can't say that I've experienced any problems either in the warehouse for crates or the lab for cannisters and I'm usually leading the way or at least racing the leader through either side.
|
Some people get lag in the warehouse, some don't. This one does seem to depend on your computer, although some people who complain about lag also claim to have relatively new machines. If your computer is awesome and optimized for gaming, I'm not surprised you don't have problems.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
Not core standard content, no.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Just focusing a bit on this.
First, is incarnate content "core" content? |
Quote:
| What are we using to determine if it is? |
Quote:
| We've also had difficulty and boss/eb selectors put in, which directly affects "higher end" content such as the Hero's Hero arc and its soloability. Which, to me, weakens the argument that "higher end content does not have to be soloable." Even in a situation such as the Kronos Titan spawn, it's soloable. Meet it in mission, it must be defeated to proceed, but it's weaker. Get the world GM spawn and you can completely bypass it - it's optional. You don't need to do anything special to keep progressing solo. |
Similarly, saying that the invention system had no barriers to progress is a theoretically true but practically false statement. Which is to say, its obviously possible to reach basically the limits of the invention system through invention slotting: people have done it. I've done it. But I suspect you'll find if you datamine the players, the vast majority of the players have never done that, or come close to doing that. The effort is simply too high: its outside what they consider to be reasonable. So they progress only so far, and no farther - if at all. Does this mean the invention system is flawed, because the vast majority of players never see or partake of its full potential? Some might say yes, but the devs disagree: its an optional avenue of progress, so its working as intended if everyone decides to tap it to a different extent.
Core content and core progress are interlinked in this game: core progress can be necessary to core content, but optional progress cannot be. The invention system is considered optional progress, so its power cannot be necessary to any core content: core content is designed and balanced without the presumption of its power. Similarly, if the incarnate system is optional progress then it cannot be necessary to core content which it is not. But it can be non-optional to non-core content. The incarnate system and the end game content are linked in that related sense: the primary intent of the incarnate system is to provide additional power intended to assist with end game content. The fact that most of it is usable outside of that content is a bonus: it allows us to continue to grow more powerful relative to the standard content as well, which prevents the incarnate system from being only a relative treadmill powered by the end game.
"Higher" non-standard non-core content doesn't have to be soloable as a design rule. Its not an "argument." Its a statement of the fact that the "standard core content must be scaled to be soloable" rule doesn't apply to that content, so the devs do not obey it for that content. They don't, and never have. It *can* be soloable, for some definition of soloable. But the devs don't, in general, require it.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I'd say maxing out in the inventions system solo is greatly faster than trying to do so via the current "solo" (bwhahahahah) option that exists for the Incarnate system. I can build the inf i need in a week solo to max out in inventions. I cannot do the same solo for the Incarnate system, especially not for the slots after alpha.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Similarly, saying that the invention system had no barriers to progress is a theoretically true but practically false statement. Which is to say, its obviously possible to reach basically the limits of the invention system through invention slotting: people have done it. I've done it. But I suspect you'll find if you datamine the players, the vast majority of the players have never done that, or come close to doing that. The effort is simply too high: its outside what they consider to be reasonable. So they progress only so far, and no farther - if at all. Does this mean the invention system is flawed, because the vast majority of players never see or partake of its full potential? Some might say yes, but the devs disagree: its an optional avenue of progress, so its working as intended if everyone decides to tap it to a different extent. |
Now I'm not saying that you should be able to max out in the Incarnate System in a week (though via the luck of the draw some players did) but I don't think the comparison in difficulty of progression is equal is close enough to compare the two systems. For one, one is meant to be an end game, lvl 50 only system. The inventions system is not. I see it more as something you can max out on over time. You CAN build up all the inf you need over the 50 levels. You CANNOT build up threads over those same 50 levels simply because threads don't drop from anything pre-50 that you have access to. (At least not yet.)
And further you CAN max out the Inf you need for your full build (purples and all) in a week. I've done it and there multiple people in the market section who have done it.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
Its faster for me as well. But as I specifically said in that post, what you or I can do is essentially irrelevant.
|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I'd say maxing out in the inventions system solo is greatly faster than trying to do so via the current "solo" (bwhahahahah) option that exists for the Incarnate system. I can build the inf i need in a week solo to max out in inventions. I cannot do the same solo for the Incarnate system, especially not for the slots after alpha.
Now I'm not saying that you should be able to max out in inventions in a week (though via the luck of the draw some players did) but I don't think the comparison in difficulty of progression is equal is close enough to compare the two systems. For one, one is meant to be an end game, lvl 50 only system. The inventions system is not. I see it more as something you can max out on over time. You CAN build up all the inf you need over the 50 levels. You CANNOT build up threads over those same 50 levels simply because threads don't drop from anything pre-50 that you have access to. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
It's been proven that it's not all that slow for anyone who simply sells what they get and does a bit of marketing. I really think folks underestimate how easy (and so little) time it takes to make inf in this game.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its faster for me as well. But as I specifically said in that post, what you or I can do is essentially irrelevant.
|
There are guides in the market section about how to go from 0 to 1 billion in a week with very little time spent at the market.
So no, I don't agree that you need to be a player like your or me to max yourself out very easily in the inventions system.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Quote:
I have a number of friends who, despite my help and personally writing a guide for them and (in 2 cases) standing behind them at their computers and showing them how to market, have never accumulated 1B across all their characters combined. They find the market some combination of inexplicable, boring or grindy. None of them like farming for Inf either. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
It's been proven that it's not all that slow for anyone who simply sells what they get and does a bit of marketing. I really think folks underestimate how easy (and so little) time it takes to make inf in this game.
There are guides in the market section about how to go from 0 to 1 billion in a week with very little time spent at the market. So no, I don't agree that you need to be a player like your or me to max yourself out very easily in the inventions system. |
One of those dirt poor friends has T3s or T4s on his main, and got them before I did, because he didn't mind running Trials. Mind you, the only reason he has IOs on that character is because I (and our other mutual marketeering friend) actually BOUGHT all of them for a build we also designed for him.
So I, personally, know people who find marketing and doing IO builds a grind, but don't mind doing Trials. In fact I know more of them then I do of people who use the market and make IO builds (1, besides myself).
Quote:
To the extent that being willing to play the market makes one like you or Arcanaville, yes, a player must be like you or Arcanaville in order to max themselves out in the inventions system. And this has been a source of friction, simply because some players don't want to do that activity. Just as some players don't want to do the Incarnate activities.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
It's been proven that it's not all that slow for anyone who simply sells what they get and does a bit of marketing. I really think folks underestimate how easy (and so little) time it takes to make inf in this game.
There are guides in the market section about how to go from 0 to 1 billion in a week with very little time spent at the market. So no, I don't agree that you need to be a player like your or me to max yourself out very easily in the inventions system. |
Speaking personally, I don't play the market much because I don't like to, and I'm not mad that I haven't maxed out my invention capacity. I also don't run the trials much because I don't like to, and I'm not mad that I haven't maxed out my Incarnate capacity. What I personally enjoy is punching dudes, sometimes alone, sometimes on a team, without a lot of extraneous fussing around. Between Alignment Merits and the Notice to Thread conversion, I pretty much have the means to get what I want, by doing what I want, in an amount of time I don't find objectionable. That is strictly my personal opinion, though.
@SPTrashcan
Avatar by Toxic_Shia
Why MA ratings should be changed from stars to "like" or "dislike"
A better algorithm for ordering MA arcs
Quote:
Who are you not agreeing with? I didn't say one had to be me to earn lots of influence. I said what I did was irrelevant to the issue. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
It's been proven that it's not all that slow for anyone who simply sells what they get and does a bit of marketing. I really think folks underestimate how easy (and so little) time it takes to make inf in this game.
There are guides in the market section about how to go from 0 to 1 billion in a week with very little time spent at the market. So no, I don't agree that you need to be a player like your or me to max yourself out very easily in the inventions system. |
What's more the invention system and the associated markets are a special case few give proper credit for. Its very important to state that most players don't participate, or not participate efficiently, because that is the engine that powers the ability for people to progress quickly. Those of us who progress quickly can only do so collectively because most people don't try. There's only so much influence circulating around, and only so many drops that fall. Everything I buy comes from someone else that decides not to use it. All the influence I earn comes from other players.
My progress in the Incarnate system, or the conventional leveling system, is not directly influenced by the amount of progress anyone else makes. XP is not a finite resource that we're fighting over in a zero sum game. Neither are incarnate drops or merits or iXP. But the recipes and influence in the invention system are a finite resource, and the people who progress quickly are basically aggregating more than the average amount of resources by some means. They can only do that because other people have less than the average. Unlike the Incarnate system and the normal leveling system its not true that Everyone can progress quickly. Some can but only because others don't. If everyone followed the guides and farming influence and alignment merits optimally, and tried to get as much out of the system as possible, everyone would be reduced to getting far less than people like me get now. Its simply not possible for everyone to get maxed out builds quickly at the rate I do, or any other min/maxer does, because that would require more influence and more drops than exist, or can exist, given the limitations on play.
That's why its important to look at the averages for the invention system. Because (oversimplifying a bit) everyone above the average implies someone below the average. We cannot all get more than the average. And the average is far, far lower than what I or any other marketeer manages to get. It is a form of PvP where anyone can win, but everyone.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
You're comparing day job responsibility while posting on a game forum at work?
|
Originally Posted by TonyV
Heh, need I point out that TonyV isn't in any particular need of help? I'm the one who's
 , even . It seems to me that the people who are  and  are the ones who need to be worried about helping themselves.Oh, snap. Do you really want to compare day job responsibilities? I'm pretty sure I have you beaten. $2 million is maybe one day's production at one of our smaller plants. My team is directly responsible for the vast majority of all of that equipment. I'm not exaggerating when I say that as I sit here typing this, there are literally over 2,700 Windows, AIX, Linux, Sun, Mainframe, and AS/400 servers within 200 feet of me in production service, and that I am watching monitoring tools that watch over literally billions--that's with a b--of software, services, and production activities. I don't particularly want you to know where I work, but if we can agree on a trustworthy objective third party, I'd be thrilled to compare résumés. Personally, I think it's kind of silly, but hey, you're the one who brought it up by taking pot shots at the wiki. |
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
I just wanted to note that I was wrong about what the devs intended. I had assumed when they said they were creating a system for people who like to play alone, they understood what the term 'alone' meant.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Quote:
I'm guessing that they thought 'alone' meant 'teamed with 24 other people'?
|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I just wanted to note that I was wrong about what the devs intended. I had assumed when they said they were creating a system for people who like to play alone, they understood what the term 'alone' meant.
|
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
Quote:
This is true and false.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Its not an analogy. I'm stating the fact that people have made the claim the game has made about-face changes that undermined all of its prior existence. That statement does not require qualification: its unambiguously true. I'm also stating the fact that gates of all kinds - including teaming - have been stated to be blocking progress. That statement also doesn't require qualification: it is unambiguously true.
In every case, people found ways to state their position in a way that emphasized some detail that made that particular situation binarily different from all previous decisions. This situation is no exception. People have found a new way to state the situation in a way that makes it different. That will *always* be possible. But is this happening in a way that makes the distinction being highlighted fundamentally more important in an objective way? Not so far as I can see. The distinction is important to the people who find it important for no reason other than personal preference, which was also true for every other case prior. If your perspective is significant, its only as significant as everyone else's has been every other time. Which means this game has fundamentally altered itself many times. Now, if you want to make an argument that doesn't just state why this particular change is singularly important and all previous people who asserted the same thing were wrong then if you're convincing I might come to believe this really is a unique event. But if you cannot explain to me why the thing you find important now should be considered more important than all the other things other players found equally important to them, my position is still that this has happened before, and will happen again. You say that inventions make your character "wider" instead of the incarnate system which makes it "taller." But I don't see them that way, and I doubt the devs see it that way. They certainly were not designed that way. So that's a matter of personal perspective. Just like the people who had similar personal perspectives in the past in other situations. Its not that I think your personal perspective isn't valid. Rather, the validity I'm granting it is no more and no less than everyone else who has made this claim in similar situations, which means I don't find your perspective and the people who share it uniquely valid. Whatever else you want to say about the changes and whether they improve or degrade the game, the specific point I don't think you have a leg to stand on is that this problem is unique. To say this is a unique break from the past is to say everyone else who said there was a unique break from the past was wrong. I don't believe you can make that case convincingly, because the primary leverage you have to make your own case is perspective, and you can't deny everyone else theirs if you do. To make the case this problem is unique, you will have to leave the comfort of personal perspective, and make the case objectively in a way that this change judged objectively is fundamentally different from all previous ones, and that therefore all those other people were wrong in a way you aren't now. Its the same playing field I place myself in when I state my opinion of whether or not a game system is correct or incorrect in the literal sense: whether I like them or not, do they function as they should to satisfy the mandates of the game design. And in that sense, I believe I can make the case unambiguously that this game has never in its past made the design promise not to gate character progression behind teamed content. The devs remove gates, and they add gates. They never specifically do anything that would lead someone to believe they opposed gates. They have always stated their intent to be solo-friendly, but not solo-specific. The reason why you always had a solo path to leveling is due to a completely different rule: core standard content must be soloable. This means things like story arcs. Because story arcs award XP and influence, theoretically speaking so long as you can run story arcs and other core mission content, you can always level and earn influence. However, there is a separate rule that says enhanced or higher end content does not have to be soloable. Task forces, trials, even content with archvillains within it do not promise the players they can solo them. You might, but if you can't that's working as intended. Being able to always progress and always achieve virtually all the rewards was a consequence of the first rule in the absence of a conflict with the second rule. But the end game falls under the auspices of the latter rule not the former rule, and there's no design rule that has ever existed in the game to give the former rule preeminence over the latter rule. There's no historical basis for claiming such a rule, so there's no historical basis for saying all progressionally-related rewards must have a standard content outlet. To the extent that was ever true, and it wasn't always true, it has been a coincidence born of simply not having very much end game rewards to gate. |
There have been changes and yet NEVER have they forced us to farm the same exact missions over and over again in order to progress. The changes are twofold, gating and forced farming. Some gating is always done - you beat the big boss - you gain a level and so on.
But forced farming tied to the gates? Never before in this game.
Quote:
Have they ever forced us to do the same thing over and over again because it was the only avenue that existed to progress our toons? Yes: we call him Hamidon. Although ED significantly devalued HOs, from February 2005 until the release of Issue 9 in May of 2007 farming Hamidon was fundamentally the only way to increase the power of our characters. And between February 2005 and November 2005 that potential power increase was *massive* - higher in some respects than what we can get out of the entire invention system today.|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
This is true and false.
There have been changes and yet NEVER have they forced us to farm the same exact missions over and over again in order to progress. The changes are twofold, gating and forced farming. Some gating is always done - you beat the big boss - you gain a level and so on. But forced farming tied to the gates? Never before in this game. |
In fact, at the moment that Issue 9 came out for most of the history of the game endgame progress was gated primarily behind a single encounter. It wasn't until the beginning of 2009 that you could say that for less than half the existence of this game endgame progress was not primarily gated behind a single piece of content. And I'm not even counting the time before Issue 1 released (when endgame progress was also gated behind the level 40 version of Hamidon).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
How many times have I done a Hamidon raid?
ONCE, after we spent months researching how to take him down. I actually gave my reward away even though it was the first time we had done it - because I was one of the organizers and some people did not get rewards as it was the click one the item on the ground reward and some took more than one.
Hamidon did not confer anything beyond an HO and the Sewer trial was the same. It gave a lower level version of the same thing.
Here is where you are not comparing apples with apples. Making the game easier versus gating actual future content. Hamidon raid could be done once and you have seen the content - future Incarnate stuff is gated behind farming trials. You can't even get to the content unless you do other content farms. So don't jump on your tractor and farm the approved way? No costumes, content and levels for you comrade.
In Russia content does you!
Quote:
Does that even work now? I've tried it a bunch of times and I've never been placed on a team, I even waited for almost 2 hours once.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Good news, we already have that. It's called the team up teleporter. Just ignore those NPCs wandering around with blue names.
|
Regardless, if they're going to allow closed leagues, why not provide some way to earn this stuff solo? There really is no good reason not to. And pretending/implying that team play is really a way to earn stuff solo is a pretty ridiculous thing for this game to try an sell to its customers.
Quote:
What's your point?
|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
How many times have I done a Hamidon raid?
ONCE, after we spent months researching how to take him down. I actually gave my reward away even though it was the first time we had done it - because I was one of the organizers and some people did not get rewards as it was the click one the item on the ground reward and some took more than one. Hamidon did not confer anything beyond an HO and the Sewer trial was the same. It gave a lower level version of the same thing. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
My point is content versus easy of play.
1. Hamidon raids provided an enhancement that if you were lucky made play easier. Once you did the raid it opened no further content.
2. iTrials are gates. They are being made to stop progression unless you farm the trials. The developers have never before supported farming. In fact Hamidon had a COOLDOWN where he did not respawn in order to NOT FARM IT.
iTrials do not even cooldown you can grind, grind, grind.
This is a major step away from past policy and if you enjoy farming - good, I don't. I fully expect someone who was on Champion server now 5 years ago (it has been that long since I played that server) to now personally attack me again saying yes, I did too farm.
No, I agreed with the Devs thoughts on farming - it sucks. Now I did love to herd and still do and personally I love to street hunt. I still always level 1-12 doing street hunting Atlas/Hollows/Perez. I leave at 12 with 24 badges for exploration, usually over a million in salvage sales and ready for Midnighters in Steel.
Quote:
I didn't run a Hami raid until well after ED, but weren't Hami-Os always tradeable? Granted, trading was a lot harder back then, but it was possible to progress an endgame character without doing Hami yourself.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Have they ever forced us to do the same thing over and over again because it was the only avenue that existed to progress our toons? Yes: we call him Hamidon. Although ED significantly devalued HOs, from February 2005 until the release of Issue 9 in May of 2007 farming Hamidon was fundamentally the only way to increase the power of our characters. And between February 2005 and November 2005 that potential power increase was *massive* - higher in some respects than what we can get out of the entire invention system today.
In fact, at the moment that Issue 9 came out for most of the history of the game endgame progress was gated primarily behind a single encounter. It wasn't until the beginning of 2009 that you could say that for less than half the existence of this game endgame progress was not primarily gated behind a single piece of content. And I'm not even counting the time before Issue 1 released (when endgame progress was also gated behind the level 40 version of Hamidon). |
-D
Darkonne: Pinnacle's (unofficially) mighty Dark Miasma/Radiation Blast enthusiast!
Be sure to check out this mighty Arc:
#161865 - Aeon's Nemesis
They were always tradeable. However, COH's spectrum of loot pre I-9 was very narrow.
1) Hami O's
2) level 51 or better SO's (Could combine up to 53, 50's could only get to 52, to this day I get a little skinneresque brain tingle when a 51+ SO drops, probably more than seeing genuinely good invention drops.)
3) Trial Rewards (Crystal and Hydra enhancements, though these obsoleted past 46 at the latest I beleive? I've literally only done Eden and the Sewer Trial once each ever, and the sewer trial failed.)
4) Large inspirations?
Until inventions, there just wasn't much in the same tier of value as an HO. And the influence trading cap at one point was 10,000, and later 100,000, and though that was laughable it was also irrelevant due to the lack of things to spend it on. I remember pre-I9 there was a contingency of players on the forum convinced that the playerbase would not accept influence as a valid currency, and that we would see the market immediately bypass it and turn into one of bartering, simply because nobody thought influence was worth anything, and they thought no one could be convinced otherwise.
If you didn't have HO's, you were likely out in the cold for acquiring them, with the exception of generous friends. But that's not really trading.
Mission Arc: Metatronic Mayhem (Id 1750): A tale of robots gone wrong, rogue robots gone right, and madmen gone every which way but loose.
Quote:
Gates to what? The only abilities gained in trials which could be looked upon as gating(level shifts) apply only in trials (as the level shift powers themselves say). So the trials are gates only to other trials. If you don't like the trials in the first place, how exactly does this hurt you? You are barred from stuff you don't like anyway? Boo hoo. |
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
My point is content versus easy of play.
1. Hamidon raids provided an enhancement that if you were lucky made play easier. Once you did the raid it opened no further content. 2. iTrials are gates. They are being made to stop progression unless you farm the trials. The developers have never before supported farming. In fact Hamidon had a COOLDOWN where he did not respawn in order to NOT FARM IT. |
Quote:
| iTrials do not even cooldown you can grind, grind, grind. |
Quote:
|
This is a major step away from past policy and if you enjoy farming - good, I don't. I fully expect someone who was on Champion server now 5 years ago (it has been that long since I played that server) to now personally attack me again saying yes, I did too farm. No, I agreed with the Devs thoughts on farming - it sucks. Now I did love to herd and still do and personally I love to street hunt. I still always level 1-12 doing street hunting Atlas/Hollows/Perez. I leave at 12 with 24 badges for exploration, usually over a million in salvage sales and ready for Midnighters in Steel. |
Though there's a question for you, did you bother to get up in arms over the Mothership raid? It's the only realistic means of gathering Vanguard merits in quantity, and it's pretty clearly a farm. It doesn't even have a cooldown.
DAMN THOSE DEVS AND THEIR MOTHERSHIP RAID FARM!!!11!!.
Too many alts to list.
Quote:
Your point has nothing whatsoever to do with what you said that I directly quoted and responded to:|
Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades
My point is content versus easy of play.
1. Hamidon raids provided an enhancement that if you were lucky made play easier. Once you did the raid it opened no further content. 2. iTrials are gates. They are being made to stop progression unless you farm the trials. The developers have never before supported farming. In fact Hamidon had a COOLDOWN where he did not respawn in order to NOT FARM IT. iTrials do not even cooldown you can grind, grind, grind. This is a major step away from past policy and if you enjoy farming - good, I don't. I fully expect someone who was on Champion server now 5 years ago (it has been that long since I played that server) to now personally attack me again saying yes, I did too farm. No, I agreed with the Devs thoughts on farming - it sucks. Now I did love to herd and still do and personally I love to street hunt. I still always level 1-12 doing street hunting Atlas/Hollows/Perez. I leave at 12 with 24 badges for exploration, usually over a million in salvage sales and ready for Midnighters in Steel. |
Quote:
|
This is true and false. There have been changes and yet NEVER have they forced us to farm the same exact missions over and over again in order to progress. The changes are twofold, gating and forced farming. Some gating is always done - you beat the big boss - you gain a level and so on. But forced farming tied to the gates? Never before in this game. |
Trying to make the argument that HOs weren't end game progress or that Hamidon wasn't farmed is something I wish I could send through a time machine back to mid 2005.
Now as to the notion that Hamidon didn't gate any content but the Incarnate trials do, what content are you talking about? Your statement that "they are being made to stop progression unless you farm the trials" has no basis in fact that I can see. I'm not even exactly sure that that is supposed to mean. They aren't being made to "stop progression" they *are* the end game content through which progression is being made. There is no progression that the trials can stop. That's like saying the content in Issue 1 was created to stop leveling unless you ran it. That's an incredibly bizarre way of saying "you level to 50 by running the 41-50 content in Issue 1."
The incarnate trials are a major departure from the policy that you made up in your head for the devs to follow, but not any policy the devs were actually following at any previous moment in this game's history. Unless you redefine farming to be "repeating limited content that has no cooldown and rewards something other than enhancements" and content gating to be "appearing to block access to content that doesn't exist yet, but I'm sure is coming eventually."
That's quite a bit more latitude than I'm prepared to extend.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
I gave away many myself. But buying them? The only currency worth an HO back then was another HO. Realistically speaking, to get them you had to run Hami.
|
Originally Posted by Teeto_K
They were always tradeable. However, COH's spectrum of loot pre I-9 was very narrow.
1) Hami O's 2) level 51 or better SO's (Could combine up to 53, 50's could only get to 52, to this day I get a little skinneresque brain tingle when a 51+ SO drops, probably more than seeing genuinely good invention drops.) 3) Trial Rewards (Crystal and Hydra enhancements, though these obsoleted past 46 at the latest I beleive? I've literally only done Eden and the Sewer Trial once each ever, and the sewer trial failed.) 4) Large inspirations? Until inventions, there just wasn't much in the same tier of value as an HO. And the influence trading cap at one point was 10,000, and later 100,000, and though that was laughable it was also irrelevant due to the lack of things to spend it on. I remember pre-I9 there was a contingency of players on the forum convinced that the playerbase would not accept influence as a valid currency, and that we would see the market immediately bypass it and turn into one of bartering, simply because nobody thought influence was worth anything, and they thought no one could be convinced otherwise. If you didn't have HO's, you were likely out in the cold for acquiring them, with the exception of generous friends. But that's not really trading. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I also discovered last night that opening the Incarnate Tree interfaces (the "Create" tab with the power trees) take me from 35 FPS to 12 FPS in Grandville. I can open and close it and it goes up and down accordingly.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)