So Solo Friendly Incarnate Path=Team?

Considering the number of trials required to unlock the A-slot, I'm sure it wont be a case of running a trial once unclocks it for an alt.
And I'm sure you'll need to purchase more than one for more than one character.
So they will be asking to do the trial more than ONCE to unlock it for any other character you create.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I didn't get that sense. How it read to me was that doing a trial opens access to the Incarnate store. Similar to how finishing Penelope Yin's arc opens Yin's market.

If said store only accepts A and E merits, then when need to change Positron's name to Anti-Matter because that's absolutely EPIC trolling of the playerbase.

I just noticed this. And Bill should know by now that this isn't a solo path that will be accepted by the playerbase. Sure it's a solo path for his tricked out characters. Mine too. But a difficult arc locked at +4 (at least until level shifts are added) would get just as much complaining and whining as requiring people to do trials, if not more.

The Ramiel arc, a slightly more difficult than normal arc, seemed to cause outsized levels of complaining. Why would such a content path be any different?

Wouldn't be the first time , and prolly wouldn't be the last time.

A. Merits wouldn't be too bad really, give they rain like candy, but well, I think it may be a bit early to pass judgement on the currency used until we know what it is using. Similarly, I do suspect that the vouchers won't be efficient either, but until we know, really not much point in worrying about it.

On another note, that's not really related to EvilGeko at all, I personally wouldn't expect to see a really 'easy'/"reasonably fast" Solo route for Praetorian Saga abilities until the Trial/Raid climate is on the next target. Although again, I don't really think there's a good point in speculating, until stuff get's announced.

Because throwing alot of heroes into a lag-fest filled mish with the flashy effects creates a sence of grandeur that covers the lack of development/content...but this is par for the course and we should be used to it by now...its a natural part of this or any game. I do wish they would make a "real" solo-friendly path a priority...not only would i like to see my pwrs fire off all the time but i'd like to feel like i make a real contribution...not sure vouchers are the way to go either as a "real" solo-friendly route.

I will remain patient and let the here and now crowd grind on the same content and just wait til there is a better experience for me hopfully in 2-3 issues!

So? At least then you can do trials (and complain about it) or do the arc (and complain about it). See, two different things to complain about.

You need to chill out. You don't like it, I get that. But thousands of people do, including me, and we really appreciate the hard, grueling work that the devs are putting into the game, even when we're not 100% happy with everything they're churning out.

When I run the BAF or Lambda Sector, I do not have these "lag-fest filled mish" problems you are referring to. Have you considered that maybe it's not a problem with the developers but with your own machine? Or (god forbid) that you might need to crank down a graphic setting or two during taxing things?

Have you ever been in the field of software development? Obviously not, if you look at everything that is being churned out of Paragon Studios and the timetable they keep. How often do you get major feature upgrades to, say, Microsoft Office? Every few months? Last time I checked, it was years between releases, and they have a team of dozens, maybe hundreds, of developers probably being paid a lot more than our devs are.

If you don't like something, fine. I don't even mind you exercising your First Amendment right to let everyone know about it, even though I strongly disagree and might argue with you over it. But whatever you think of the end result, they're working their ***** off to entertain you, and that deserves at least enough respect and civility to not be downright insulting to them like this.

ROFL! OK, that was funny.

I don't recall having to subscribe to Microsoft Office via a monthly fee, however. When I purchase the software, I get access to all updates made to it pretty much until the end of the software's lifespan. I have had an XP rig pretty much since that came out, I paid for one copy and I'm still getting free updates for it, even at a time when I'd have honestly thought that XP would be deprecated. It still downloads and installs stuff.

The resentment you see comes from players who feel that they are not just being ignored, but that the game is actively being developed in such a way as to alienate them, not out of malice but because "metrics" suggest that that's the most profitable direction to take. And I can certainly appreciate the kind of resentment that comes from paying a monthly subscription fee to a development team which appears to ignore you as a customer almost entirely.

Sure, not everyone gets what he wants with every update. That much is simple truth. But when updates start being made that claim to cater to specific types of players but actually doesn't, this becomes insulting. Not only does it fail to provide what players want, but it also suggests that these players will never get what they want, because a straw man will be added to the game instead, one which the studio can point to as a solution, but one which constitutes no solution at all.

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This "solo" solution is not solo at all. It should not have been called that and it should not have been presented as helping with a problem that it only serves to make worse. As public relations goofs go, this one is pretty damn bad. Call it an Incarnate Store and leave it at that. Calling it solo anything is just a bold-faced lie.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Tony, u may want to take your own chill pill...i dont think i was being direspectful or un-civil...i stated facts that some people experience, and i stated facts of the nature of game development. We have been around this game long enough to understand it takes time to push out enough content to provide a well rounded experience.

As for the rest of your wonderful post...I really dont want to get into throwing around my IT credentials but i do have a greater understanding of application development lifecycles so i'll leave it at that! I also nvr said the dev staff was not "working their ***** off"...they do work hard and they do make a wonderful game but its the nature of the business to push out content knowning that its a nvr ending process and will need further development over time...so I'll conclude the use of my First Admentment and note they we will need to agree to disagree...o and fyi the Red names can defend themselves if needed...trust me i know!

Have a great day!

Off-topic, but that's coming. In fact, before long, it's widely thought that most large software packages will be sold on a subscription basis. Some already are.

"Actively being developed in such as way as to alienate them" != "lack of development/content." The former is saying that they're trying and failing to please Player X. The latter is saying that they're not even trying, and that's insulting and uncalled for, especially given how many hours every day I'm certain the developers are working on this game.

I'm totally dumbfounded that this surprises you. They have repeatedly said that this is a team-oriented system. This genre is predicated on people wanting to play the game together. No matter how much you or anyone else tries to twist this into a single-player game, it's not. It never has been, it never will be. Since day one, task forces have required multiple people to start. Some, with simul-clickie missions, require multiple people to finish. Since day one there have been rewards (souvenirs) attached to completing team-only content. Since September 16, 2004, less than five months after launch, there have been rewards (badges) that you could "wear" gated behind team-only content. Since day one, a very small contingent of people have complained out it. Seven years later, I guess they still just don't get it.

Now, that's not to say that there's not solo-friendly content in the game. The devs understand that even the most team-oriented players will be spending a lot of time on their own doing stuff. Nevertheless, I hate to beat a dead horse, but people still seem to be confusing solo-friendly with solo-only. The former means that you'll still have to team up sometimes to get all of the shiny stuff you want. The latter is an unreasonable expectation for any MMORPG, including City of Heroes.

What the devs are doing is throwing solo-only players a bone. I agree with that. Personally, I think that's kind of generous, considering that this stuff was developed with teaming in mind. Why don't they make an easier solo-only path to all of the Incarnate stuff? Because they don't want people taking that path! It's there for people who neurotically insist on not teaming. It's there for people who want to only run a few trials and get the rest on their own. It's not there to be just as easy or just marginally harder than the team-oriented content, because then people wouldn't be teaming up as much and that would degrade the game experience for most people. Incarnate stuff is supposed to be hard and take a long time to complete. I'm not surprised, and I actually heartily support, making getting Incarnate stuff solo very hard and taking a very long time to complete.

Now, at some point, we'll have even newer and even shinier stuff that will probably be gated behind team-oriented content. At that point, they might circle back and make some of this stuff easier to get for solo players, since it will be kind of old hat by then. But I just don't see the point in continuing to insist, after seven years, that solo-only players must be treated equally. You're more than welcome to, and we can continue having this conversation for the next ten or twenty or fifty years, but it's just not going to happen. You'll always have new fun stuff to do as a solo player, but you will never be able to finish literally everything in the game without teaming.

Also, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that this isn't a bad thing. There are things I don't care for about the game, too, such as PvP. There are a bunch of badges that can only be obtained in the arena and PvP zones. There are rewards (nukes, Shivans, Longbow heavies) that gated behind those zones. I love 97% of the game, but that falls into the 3% I don't particularly care for. However, I don't come here and complain constantly about it. If I want some Shivans, I go there and get them. I have some of the PvP badges on some of my characters because I sucked it up and tolerated the content I don't particularly like. Just because I don't care for it doesn't mean that I'm writhing in agony when I do it ("Woe, how those mean devs are to Tony!"), and I recognize that some people do like PvP. Hell, sometimes I'm even in just a funky enough mood that I participate in PvP contests and such just to do something different!

Never have I felt entitled to PvP content-gated stuff just because I don't like it. I do it to get what I want, then I play the other 97% of the game that I like. If they released two or three PvP-oriented issues (actually, they did release one), hey, all the better! I don't want a game full of people who are just like me playing--and a game full of solo-only players would be mighty boring indeed.

It does if it's meant to deal with a specific complaint. Namely, many of the solo focused folk have stated that they don't want to "grind endless trials" for stuff. Well, assuming (and I'm aware I could be making a donkey out of you and me for doing so) that the Incarnate stores allow you buy threads with a currency other than Astrals or Empyreans (which would be stupid admittedly), then this does offer a means for people who like to solo a way to avoid "grinding endless trials."

I.e. unlock the stores, then perhaps you may need to grind out billions of influence or something, but you'll have access to the stuff without having to do the trials over and over.

But hopefully all this stuff will be on beta on the 31st and we can see for ourselves.

Your words, dude, not mine. You can retract your statement if you want because we all say dumb things sometimes in the heat of an argument, but don't insult us by pretend that you never said it.

Add "community management" to the list of stuff you're not familiar with, or else you'd know that they actually can't, especially not as vigorously as they should be defended when someone comments on their "lack of development/content" when they're releasing a major game update just a month and a half after the previous major game update.

Oh, BS, Tony. Everybody lags during the escapee section of the BAF. It's a known issue.

But yea, I'm sure that my pristine quadcore hyperthreaded I7 proc, 6GB of RAM, Win7-64bit rig with an ati 3870 video card is the problem.

EG, I have no doubt that the crying would be fierce. I don't care. I'm not asking for an easy path. I'm asking for a solo path.

You do Ramiel's arc, you unlock alpha. Get alpha slotted and you don't get hit by the -4 evil. Yes, fighting +4s is rough. So what? As you do it more they become +3s. Then +2s. Then +1s. Do the work, get the reward.

After looking at what the "solo option" currently is, I dove right into BAF and Lambda. The current choice isn't a choice at all.

Bill, I already suggested something for soloists that most people agreed with: EvilGeko's Incarnate Strikes

it's based on an idea that was much closer to your idea that generated much arguing in one of the betas. Personally, I know YOU want a difficult good solo path. But most folks do not. When they say solo they mean solo for a Empath/Psi defender on +0/x1. The devs set the line much more harshly for soloists than I would. But some folks, not you, want a solo path that is only slightly slower than the trial path.

It's not going to happen. That's not saying I disagree with it, just that the devs aren't going to do it. At least not until we're well along in the Incarnate system. Probably a year at least after Issue 20.

You mean your high-end pc like mine is experiencing lag...i thought i was the only one saying dumb things and mis-informed about this game...i feel so much better now! It appears this is going to be addressed in the near future and hopfully in time for the upcoming i-content or possibly the next update after that...i do like they are adding more pets and choices for peeps who have concept builds

I'm in a position to be covered either way. My job pays for my Microsoft products.

Tangential argument: While I don't question that the Incarnate system requires massive, costly amounts of hard work, I still see it as the easier option to develop. I've never believed that the development team stuff our dollars down their shirts and spend their entire work day playing crumpled paper basketball. That would be silly. However, the quintessential problem which delayed an "end game" system for close to seven years has not been solved - that it's far too expensive to produce new content brackets sizable enough for players to not run out of content before reaching the end that don't include horrible grind. The quote-unquote "simple" solution to this is to develop very little content in terms of volume, but instead focus on complex systems that incite players to replay said content over and over again.

There isn't a lack of development, but I would still argue that corners are getting cut nonetheless. I've always seen a PROPER end game as a task too heavy for even large studios, so I can't say I blame the team for cutting corners, but at the same time, I'm not going to look the other way when they do.

What surprises me is the outright dishonest publicity surrounding this system. I'm well aware that it will be a cold day in hell before Matt will allow me to get any meaningful Incarnate progress without being in the direct presence of a throng of other people. I get that. I don't like it, but I get it. But calling this system a "solo" one is just dishonest. Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.

The "solo" system isn't. It's a resource sharing system. It's no different from people who own multiple accounts powerlevelling their alts or, in a broader sense, it's no different from people e-mailing stuff to themselves. It does nothing to save effort. All it does is redistribute it. I don't have to have a billion inf on THIS one character. So long as I have a billion inf across ALL of my characters, this one specific character can have all of it if I so desired. This does not make me likely to have gotten that inf in any more or less of a solo manner.

Just like e-mailing stuff to yourself, however, this "stuff" has to come from somewhere. You need to have gotten the drop you're e-mailing first before you can mail it. As such, this system is not solo IN THE SLIGHTEST, because it involves Incarnate resources, and for those, Trials are still the bottleneck. Whether a particular character of mine has to run the Trials or not is irrelevant, so long as I have to do them. And so long as I have to run the Trials, what difference does it make what character I do them with?

This "solo" solution actually reminds me of suggestions people have made for sharing experience between your characters. This doesn't mean you have to earn any less experience, it just makes it completely meaningless who you earn said experience with. The experience itself, however, still has to come from somewhere.

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This is not an option which should have "solo" attached to it.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Good points Geko...hard solo is a major riddle to solve i do not envy them on this task!..i think the i-stuffs will be lights out once they get a few more i-updates out...its not a matter of "if" its only a matter of "when or win"!

I suppose so. It's funny that someone who is considered a hardware guru would be having such a problem. Maybe you have too many services running in the background or something.

Any lag I've ever experienced has been totally inconsequential to the point where I don't even notice it. I've never failed any of these trials, not one single time, so even if there is some minor lag it's not even close enough to make any difference on the outcome.

If you want, I can send you my system specs when I get home. I don't remember them all offhand, but maybe they'd be helpful in building something you can play with.

Does your machine exceed the recommended minimum requirements? Because if they're not going to design stuff that runs well on machines that meet the recommended minimum requirements, they need to raise those requirements. I hear many many complaints about lag during the trials, and I doubt all those people are playing on relics. A seven-year-old game shouldn't require a top-of-the-line PC to run decently.

What bone, where? Please enlighten me where the bone is for people who only solo, or even for people who often solo.

Let's not forget the warehouse in Lambda. The playerbase seems to be split between "I'm fine," "I'm mostly ok as long as I look at the floor," and "I can barely move."

Oh, and then there's the power-delay lag (can't blame that on your machine) plaguing my entire league once the reinforcements on two MOLambda attempts started piling up, which is probably what cost us the badge.

Lambda and BAF don't have the -4 debuff, and I see no reason for any new content to have it either. It should be removed from Apex and Tin Mage too, because it's stupid.

Yeah, and right now neither of us are getting what we want. A difficult solo path would give at least some of us what we want. (As long as "difficulty" isn't measured in S/L resistance. I am so freaking sick of everything "difficult" having insane S/L resistance. Swords are cool, ok? Claws are cool, guns are cool, axes are cool, jumping up and kicking someone in the face and backflipping off their head is extremely cool. Stop punishing people who want to be cool by making us take twice as long to kill anything. /end rant.)

Oh wow. Excuse me a sec, I'm going to go make popcorn. I'm going to enjoy this....

Yes. I'll throw a question back to you. Do you have your settings and screen resolution cranked all the way down? Because if you don't, if you bump so much as one slider up past "looks-like-crap-but-technically-playable," then you're deliberately taxing your minimum recommended system resources unnecessarily.

Any more strawmen we need to address?