So Solo Friendly Incarnate Path=Team?

It is like that

The devs can't really take into account the shyness levels of some players
But other players can help the shy ones open up a bit

A group of 8 of you could solo missions together.

The percentage of people who shun all other player contact might be tiny minority, but the percentage who don't want to raid in a game that didn't have mandatory progression-by-raiding-drops system until six months ago is probably bigger than you think.

If the issue is JUST raiding you can get the stuff relatively quickly just by doing WST's and the notice and shard conversons. Expensive still, but it's still doable purpling stuff out in a cople of months.

And your point is?

People kept running Hami when it was an absolute slideshow. When "playing" Hami meant "Get the leader targeted, put on follow, and put some power on auto, because you're not going to be doing it yourself in your 5 seconds per frame Hami raid." People kept running the ITF despite the lag. People keep doing Rikti raids despite lag.

What makes you say, other than wanting a strawman about people quitting, that lag makes people avoid anything? They complain, yes, and properly so.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Honestly, the only part of the game I've experienced as excessively laggy is the BAF under certain conditions (last patch seems to have improvd it a bit, although the escape part is till laggy, probably for the same reason ITF is: Eg. OVerlapping auras)

The devs have loads of stats from their datamining - and the Incarnate Traisl continue to be rolled out, along with special rewards attached to them - I think that that should perhaps tell you something

Whatever they did in the last patch, they certainly reduced the lag on the BAF - I did 2 on Freedom last night, and the prisoner phase was very smooth.

Do you have numbers on this? How small a minority?

Are there only 1,000 soloists, total? Is it 15% of the playerbase? 10%? 1%?

Are soloists poorly represented on the Forum because they're, well, soloists, and just "play the game to play the game"? Are they statistically over-represented on the forum?

This isn't a real statistic. We can assume that the Devs have been lead to believe that most people team and most people would / do enjoy Trials.

But the devs have made misguided assumptions about the playerbase before (coming from good places, mind you; that, I do believe).

I hope they have the numbers to back the decisions they're making here - but I'm pretty sure you don't.

Edited to note - Okay, about ten replies came out while I was typing this, and I was left behind in the conversation. And GG already replied to the same point from someone else (in exactly the manner I anticipated). Sigh.

It tells me you're as full of it as TonyV when he says 99% of players are happy with the direction of the game.

Dang but I wish we had a way of finding this out for sure....Golden Girl you sound very sure of yourself that the soloists are a "tiny" minority....clarify, how do you know to say tiny????

Lisa-Wondering

I don't claim any percentage numbers

But the amount of 50s being played compared to pre-Incarnate times suggests that quite a few people are enjoying what the devs have offered us from I19 onwards

I burned out on TFs pretty early on in the game's lifespan. The eight-hour-long Positron TF hellhole I mentioned earlier in this thread? That really happened. And what's worse, it wasn't even a successful TF. We *bailed* at 8 hours. If you like them, that's fine, but no more TFs for me, thanks. The appeal is long gone.

Up until November 2010, my dislike of TFs was just fine. The game didn't require it. I got multiple toons to 50 by doing everything else. All I missed was a couple of badges and an accolade or two. I've even run the Mender Ramiel mission and freed up alpha slots. The game requires TFing or trials to make further progress.

I learned to drive automatic, got really good at it, spent years doing it, and now I have to drive stick or I run out of road. After such a long time - and seeing universal content like auras and emotes tied up in the system - it's very discouraging.

Because the Incarnate system continues to be team focused - if a large section of the player base was soloing, the devs would have designed the system with soloers in mind - or, if they suddenly discovered that a large section of the player base was still soloing after they launched the Incarnate system, they mightn't be continuing to roll out Trials and add new rewards linked to the Trials.

With all the data the devs had available to them from over 6 years of live server play by thousands and thousands of different players, they designed the Incarnate system to be team focused.

Really?

Because around me - me being, me, my spouse, and the 2-4 people I team with - it's gone from 0 to 0.

Perhaps it's a sampling thing. Maybe your sample group, around your level 50 you enjoy teaming on, is biased toward those who enjoy level 50s and teaming.

You don't have the numbers to support the conclusions you're arguing, but you continue to argue them. I'm not arguing "soloists outnumber teamers", or anything - because I freely admit, I have no way to know that.

As has been said before around here, "So you're arguing from a position of ignorance? Always a strong choice."

(Note I'm also not arguing that Incarnate Content isn't a hit. Because I have no way to know that either - and admittedly, reason to believe such an argument is untrue. But I'm not convinced that it has been more successful than solo content would have been. Or that it's wise to pursue more Incarnate Trials to the exclusion of solo content.)

Edit - Arguing that the Devs are producing what the numbers tell them is desired seems ... flawed. It's possible - I think likely - that numbers would seem to tell the Devs that occasional, highly profitable, AE farms are highly desirable. After all, lots of people play them, many times over... ...right?

The Devs have loads of stats...you don't, unless you are the friend of a Dev, a daughter of a Dev, or even are a Dev yourself.

The Incarnate stuff is indeed being rolled out. They spent man hours and lots of money developing it, yes they are going to bring it forth. It tells me that they don't want all that work to go to waste.

Darn, but this thread is an angry one. It has me spitting at Golden Girl....and I enjoy her posts.

Golden Girl I apologize for my tone, but I am curious as to how you are so darn confident that we are tiny.

Lisa-Going back to game

Or that people are doing it because it's the only credible way to unlock the powers.

Either way I like most of what's been put forward. Most, certainly not all.

How does dislike of an 8-hour meat grinder TF apply to trials that are over with in 30-40 minutes tops, win or lose?

I'm genuinely curious.

Also, this.

Until there is a solo option, accurately determining how many would want a solo option would be difficult.

Also, please don't think, GG, I'm picking on you. I'd direct the same or similar disagreements at someone who argued that since people still go on sewer runs, clearly we need more first-level content instead of new incarnate trials.

It's based on the game direction

I'm willing to argue there have been mis-steps in that regard in the past; bases, PVP, and arguably AE. The fact that "it's the direction things are going" is not the same as, "it's the best possible choice".

It might be. I dunno. But you don't, either. And we're both hoping the Devs do.

I just think it's unfortunate that what you propose is the best path for the game is the worse (not worst, mind) path for me - and others.

People like different things. Film at eleven. A company takes a classic turn-based strategy franchise and decides to turn it into an FPS set in a completely different time perid. Some people like it, I certainly don't, and sure as hell won't buy it. But does that mean that no one is going to like it? No.

Hmmm.....I think they would still continue to roll it out as they put in a large chunk of time and money into it.

I hope you are right Golden Girl and it is not a case of marketing declaring that the new end content has to be team oriented because that is what sells in other games.

And a lack of a solo path ensures that players wanting an endgame will have to team or not experience it.

Yes people are playing it. It is new, a novelty...so was Praetoria and that place is empty when I play there now.

I can't help but think though, how healthy will the game be if this "tiny Minority" got fed up and left. I know several people who have done just that.

This game is fed by both soloers and teamers which might be how this game has lasted so long.

I hope this fact is acknowledged by Marketing and the "Powers That Be" in this game.

Lisa.

Big wide grin. I still think you are the daughter of a Dev

Lisa.

Oh hey; no argument. Don't misunderstand me; this course might prove immensely popular and profitable for CoX even as I don't really go for it. And if so, so be it, I suppose; they're under no need to cater to me.