Issue 20 Patch Notes - Build 2010.201105131851.1.0

Or just make some that aren't all praetorian. Some Clockwork, some Rikti, some Cimerorans, maybe Carnies (in place of Seers), basically anything or anyone the well has "touched" in some manner could basically have an "essence" that functions as a Lore pet. I dislike the entire *idea* of Lore Pets, but at least they'd be more paletable if they fit into (primal) canon more.

If everything dropped threads instead of shards, you'd use the alpha thread recipes to make your alpha.

I find making the tier 1 alpha much easier via threads than shards. I use trapdoor over unlocking with iXP though.

I just tested again. This time playing around with the order I did things, something I wasn't paying attention to the first time.

Attack with Pyronic first, all the dummies got the effect from interface.

Move in with world of confusion after that and only one dummy gets the -to hit.

Fire Rain of Arrows on all the dummies still only one dummy gets the effect.

Ionic Judgment, If I target the dummy that has the effect from world of confusion, only that dummy gets the effect from Ionic Judgement. Targeting a different dummy only that dummy gets it.

And that is about it for me, I'll leave the rest to people that can test in less than 90 seconds per test and can look under the hood while its happening.

I think it's less of a case of "not supposed to happen" and more of a case of "not supposed to happen when the players are in a timed situation or the power cycles so fast as to make it difficult for non optimum teams"

If they go up to and above 100% resists for 30 seconds once every 20 minutes, I think it would probably be quite acceptable. If it happens for 2 mins and you only have 20 mins to finish the fight, so you're loosing 20% of you're time, and the Devs are encouraging it to be done when the rest of the time he has silly high resists also, it can be a big roadbump that needs intervention.

Originally Posted by VoodooGirl [*]Watching out for the Spinning Disco Portal of D00M!*

A simple "Thanks for looking into it" would have sufficed, but that would mean actually being civil.

You do know that Black Scorpion hasn't been around since Issue 7, right? Or at least not the one in charge of powers? Somehow, despite all your volumes of posts about it, the problem probably wasn't very high on the "gotta fix it now" list.

Hard capping AVs to be all the same is NOT the best solution. What's wrong with them being a little different from each other? It's not like a diverse team can't take them all down with ease.

Devs have said they're planning on adding more options. I know for sure they've mentioned Carnies and Arachnos, and there will likely be a couple of more. I believe they want to put them in with I 20.5, but definitely by 21.

That is extremely disturbing.

If this is the case this patch should NOT go live tuesday.
I will test tonight when I get home from work.

They've said (on ustream or chat, can't recall which) that they're bringing us Carnie, Nemesis & Arachnos Lore pets.

Depends, I usually T1-T2 with threads and use a notice from the WST + shards (you usually get enough just from doing a WST) to craft the T3. It's much easier getting a Notice than hoping for randomly rolling a Rare

They're not all different from each other, because it's the same two damage types that are 100% resisted by all of them. This is grossly unfair to many Scrapper, Brute, Stalker, and Tanker powersets, as well as two Blaster, Corruptor and Defender powersets. And it's the same powersets that get screwed over every. Single. Time.

And no, a "diverse team" can't take down Enraged Marauder with ease, especially once they start lagging. A hand-picked team can take him down. Right now, said team doesn't include anyone relying on S/L damage. A diverse team might be able to take him down, if they have enough debuffs and exotic damage to compensate for players with limited utility.

And they're nerfing Marauder, so that's not a problem.

He was arguing against the other AV's, who hasn't really been a problem in that way. (except Honoree, and that's becuase he somehow keeps reapplying his panic button more than he should)

That's a good call on the animation time as it applies to auras, but all of the Rain type powers have a casting time.

Also you can still fire off 2-3 AoEs on some high end builds in the same space of 10s - thus getting more chances to proc.

Its one of the reasons I never bother slotting procs in damage auras (unless I'm wrong, would love to see some math showing that I am, might give me a reason to slot procs).


Obviously the current proc rate is...insane.

I was hoping for something like 5-7s though for rains & auras, RoF for example only has a 15s duration to begin with vs. Fire Ball which I cast every 5s or so (and which has no 10s limit).

I agree with you overall, and as a dedicated melee player at heart this Marauder change is extremely welcome.

However, on the hand picked (all Gfriends/Known Players) team I did MoLambda on (original implementation of MoLambda) - We did have two SS Brutes with no issue.

Finished with 3 minutes on the clock.

That doesn't mean you wanted a dozen melees though.

Oh shush.

Power sets like Regeneration, Shield Defense, Super Reflexes, Willpower and Invulnerability get screwed on Interface as a matter of course. If anything, this bug/nerf fixes a considerable disparity.



.

Indeed, they have A casting time. Out of ONE animation you can still get multiple proc chances.

I would be interested in a 5-7 second limit instead of 10 (for all procs, not just Interface). It would be a considerable increase, but not out of bounds, IMO. But if you do a straight comparison to other AoEs you have to really include all factors. Spending 1 to 3 seconds (depending on the animation time of the AoE) and X endurance every 6 seconds to get multiple procs chances vs spending 2 to 3 seconds and X endurance to get multiple proc chances. End cost, animation time (and the opportunity cost associated with it), and even AoE size (rains and patches are often large, although some like Burn and Ignite are not).

That's true, though it does depend on the power in question.

Burn for example is just on the edge at 10s duration, RoF 15s.

Then there is Sleet with its beefy 30s duration.

So some make out well, others not as well.


Fair enough assessment.

I think we agree overall.


Maybe 5s for short duration/short radius/low target cap powers (Burn, Damage Auras)

10s for long duration/large radius/high target cap powers (RoF, Sleet, Hot Feet)


For both regular procs & interface.

It will probably never happen, but it would be nice.

Let's hope Black Scorpion is still reading.

Sleet has a 15 second duration. The debuff lasts for 30 seconds, or at least it's supposed to do. The last time I checked, there was a rather persistent bug with Freezing Rain and Sleet that randomly cancels the debuff on the rain's end if the target is still in the area.

FWIW, on the subject, I have always disliked the 10s-per-proc standard. I think limiting the proc rate of auras/pseudo-pets is a fine idea in principle, but once per 10s seems like too low a limit. That objection is almost purely subjective, though; I have no good numerical argument for any particular value below 10s. Any change I'd suggest would be arbitrary.

Edit:

That might be nice, but it's not clear that the game is even capable of distinguishing between auras emanating from players, and auras emanating from pseudo pets. They have always, AFAIK, been treated as the same by the devs.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Good catch, I always forget about that.

Does anyone know if the procs for Interface (pre-fix) are (were) using the damage duration or the debuff duration?



I agree, I've never liked 10s. And it basically makes slotting IO Procs into these powers a non-option for me.


That's probably true.

So then we just lobby for IO procs and interface to be reduced to 5s and we all go home winners.

Neither: It procs on every damage tick.

Sleet has about 70-tics.

Now, this is mitigated somewhat by the fact that eg. Reactive only stacks five times, but that's still pretty bad.

Note that regular DOT's doesen't do this: Rains actually make multiple attacks, and that's why they (pre-fix) procced a lot.

EDIT: Slotting damage procs into sleet is far more efficient than slotting them with Damage IO's, for instance. Not sure how the math works out on Ice Storm though.

Yes, with a minor quibble: Rains are just pseudo pets with an very wide-area damage aura that ticks every 0.2 seconds. Or so I understand. Blazing Aura would be no less broken if it ticked ten times faster than it does now. (Or would have been no less broken, before today.)

The debuff duration is a discrete, secondary effect of the aura. It just happens to have a duration that (at least on paper, see previous post about the bug) outlasts the pet by 15 seconds. The debuff's duration had nothing to do with Reactive before today's patch, and has nothing to do with Reactive (or any proc) after today's patch.

The fact that Reactive only stacks to 5 was basically irrelevant because fully stacked Reactive is really effing strong, delivering something like 5 * 50 damage over a handful of seconds. As you can imagine, a full 15+ seconds of fully saturated Reactive (3-4 cycles of fully stacked DoT @ ~250 damage apiece) is plenty enough to turn any old Rain power into a quasi-nuke. (A level 50 minion only has about 430 hitpoints. A level 50 Lieutenant only has about 850 hitpoints.)

The intention was pretty clearly that a single player, even one with really fast attacks and the Tier 4 proc, would find it nearly impossible to stack Reactive to the limit consistently, and very hard to stack Reactive much at all in an AoE. As it is, a single application of Reactive is a pretty nice boost to a given attack, and FWIW, I prefer it stays that way. (Edit: To clarify, what I prefer is a stronger DoT that's very hard to stack, as opposed to a weaker DoT that's much easier to stack. Before today's patch, what we had was the strength of the former, and for some few builds, more than the ease-of-stackability of the latter.)

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

I'm also not happy that on some of the pets I'll have to stop at a non combat one + a combat one due to the pets themselves not being in the highest tier as we only get the option of 2 very rares.

On Rains:

These are Incarnate powers and while they should probably not tick on every attack ticking every 10 seconds makes them nothing more then some invention SO, not even a good invention IO at that. They should tick far more often, like every 5 seconds as the stacking is capped anyway.