CoX Quarter Earnings - Q1 2011
By
0zymandous,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 24:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Vacancies available: Creative Financial Administrator, Paddle-less Creek Navigator, Reality Distortion Field Engineers (2 posts, 1 part time), Removals Driver, Executive Demolitionist, Undertaker, Senior Create A Distractioner, and CV copywriter.|
Originally Posted by BasilAcid
No one's mentioned the new job listings at Paragon Studio's website. If we were in danger of maintenance mode or shut down DOOOM... I doubt they would be hiring new people.
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Joking, joking!
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
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Don't underestimate the power of the RDF.|
Originally Posted by Dollymistress
Reality Distortion Field Engineers (2 posts, 1 part time),
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EDIT: Editing to avoid spamming a new post.
I have to say I'll be interested to see what the Q2 numbers look like. I'm assuming those will include sales of the steam punk pack, which from the trailer and the reactions I've been seeing look like it's going to be a home run.
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Or at least it can be. One can trot out the counter-example of a struggling but well-received MMORPG that successfully went F2P shortly before the one you didn't mention by name after its parent company had a good experience with another of its MMORPGs switching subscription methods, but that's not the point since we don't have anywhere near the necessary financial information in those cases or, for that matter, CoH's. (Just as we're forbidden to discuss other games on these forums, we are not able to cite the truly germane statistics in this case either.)|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Going F2P is disasterous.
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On a tangential note, whatever the longterm feasibility of F2P as a model for MMOs, nobody can say yet how it affects player community, surely a more important factor for us. Anecdotally, I've seen opinions about this from players in newly F2P games that range from negative to indifferent, but never especially positive. If some posters on these forums are advocating F2P as a way of increasing the size of the community (and not because they're secretly misers), it's worth reflecting that more does not necessarily mean better - and sometimes it means worse.
In any case, as long as NCSoft is posting a profit, the devs are adding content and fixing bugs, and CoH's community is one of the best among MMORPGs, I'm content.
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Shhhh... wouldn't want folks getting the wrong idea what with those fancy consumer indexes saying inflation doesn't exsist, and pay being essentially frozen for the past 15-30 (depending on how you look at it) years by euphemistically calling a COLA a pay raise |
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
With continued unemployment, and the continued decline of average wages and wealth of the middle class
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Anyways back to the doom forecast
------->"Sic Semper Tyrannis"<-------
So, I'm guessing those 67,000 accounts were all active on Virtue last night and that's why there were so many instances of Pocket D, RWZ and Atlas Park? And even Redside was, despite being empty, laggy as all get out?
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Umm, do you work in IT?|
Originally Posted by Daemodand
If I wanted to see if my current population could be supported by less hardware, a stress-test is exactly what I'd do.
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I ask because as technology increases performance it's often much easier to support the same "load" in processing and traffic on smaller and cheaper hardware.
Remember the picture from the 1950's of a "computer" that literally took up an entire room? Some phones have more processing capability than that computer did.
To put it another way, if you had a vehicle whose purpose was only to get you to work and back home, would you still drive the same car 10 years later if it only managed 10 m.p.g. when you could buy a new one that had 30 m.p.g. and still spend less with the car payment and new gasoline costs than just the gas costs in your old vehicle?
Amusing how people cite new server hardware and network traffic utilization as "DOOOOMMMM!!" when I know one of the companies I used to work for managed to shrink their server hardware farm by 50% and achieve the same performance and our IT team was hailed as saving the company money to spend for other things.
Of course, I work in IT and actually like the game so may be biased in applying common sense and business experience, but please if it makes you feel better, go on with your doom-saying. 
If there was a problem with the business it seems highly unlikely the powers that be at NCSoft would have invested so much in unifying the transatlantic communities.
Rather they would have done something like migrate EU accounts to NA servers and reduce their hardware costs by closing the five EU servers down.
They didn't do that. They invested quite heavily and made it happen. That tells me all I need to know about the health of the game.
Thelonious Monk
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Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
If there was a problem with the business it seems highly unlikely the powers that be at NCSoft would have invested so much in unifying the transatlantic communities.
Rather they would have done something like migrate EU accounts to NA servers and reduce their hardware costs by closing the five EU servers down. They didn't do that. They invested quite heavily and made it happen. That tells me all I need to know about the health of the game. |
<Snark> NO way man! DOOM! DOOOOOOOOOM! Repeat after me! DOOOOOOOOOOM! You are not being negative enough! MOAR DOOM! MOAR DOOM! AUUUUUGH!</Snark>
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Cry Doom! And let slip the noobs of war!
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
<Snark> NO way man! DOOM! DOOOOOOOOOM! Repeat after me! DOOOOOOOOOOM! You are not being negative enough! MOAR DOOM! MOAR DOOM! AUUUUUGH!</Snark>
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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I think it's a bad way to go for a sub based game unless it's a last resort. The reaction from the existing playerbase will make or break the switchover. If a game is designed from scratch to be F2P that's a different story because there won't be a pre-existing playerbase.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
Out of curiosity, though, you seem to think F2P is a bad way to go (trust me, I have my reservations about it too.) But to play a sort of Devil's Advocate here, don't you think any other MMO looking to go F2P would like at the other game that tried it and would learn from their mistakes and player reactions and handle going F2P differently?
Is F2P inherently bad or just a business model that needs time to be understood/developed? |
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Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Or at least it can be. One can trot out the counter-example of a struggling but well-received MMORPG that successfully went F2P shortly before the one you didn't mention by name after its parent company had a good experience with another of its MMORPGs switching subscription methods, but that's not the point since we don't have anywhere near the necessary financial information in those cases or, for that matter, CoH's. (Just as we're forbidden to discuss other games on these forums, we are not able to cite the truly germane statistics in this case either.)
On a tangential note, whatever the longterm feasibility of F2P as a model for MMOs, nobody can say yet how it affects player community, surely a more important factor for us. Anecdotally, I've seen opinions about this from players in newly F2P games that range from negative to indifferent, but never especially positive. If some posters on these forums are advocating F2P as a way of increasing the size of the community (and not because they're secretly misers), it's worth reflecting that more does not necessarily mean better - and sometimes it means worse. In any case, as long as NCSoft is posting a profit, the devs are adding content and fixing bugs, and CoH's community is one of the best among MMORPGs, I'm content. |
To be honest I'm enjoying this bit of news about the other game doing so poorly because we've seen several recent threads since that game announced it was going F2P from people holding it up as a shining example, and we should blindly follow their lead if this game wants to survive.
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I think they more resemble the chihuahua's of annoyance than noobs of war. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Cry Doom! And let slip the noobs of war!
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Bah, that doesn't roll off the tongue quite the same, though.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think they more resemble the chihuahua's of annoyance than noobs of war.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Congrats to Arcanaville and other voices of reason speaking up here. I wouldn't want any of the naysayers to be shareholders in say...investment funds, for example.
'Oh no, we're down in profits for the quarter! We should sell and get out now!'
To quote a WWE wrestler called the Miz: Really? Really?
America has exceeded its gross debt limit and there are countries all around the world still suffering under debt. Greece is just shy of going bankrupt.
I think I can see a lot of reasons why sales might be just a touch down....I don't need to be an economics expert for that.
Doomsayers are doomsayers, no matter what. Let NCSoft handle their finances, you handle yours and ne'er the twain shall meet. 
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
One million dollars a month for a 7 yr old MMO game that still maintains a subscription fee isn't just good - its damn good! And you know the game has more than paid for itself by now. So that's easy money to boot.
I think the old gurl still has a few good years of life in her yet.
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From what I understand of the graph that was posted - that's revenue of new sales (i.e. new accounts or booster pack purchases) and not of continuing subscriptions. OP, correct me if I'm wrong.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I think it's a bad way to go for a sub based game unless it's a last resort. The reaction from the existing playerbase will make or break the switchover. If a game is designed from scratch to be F2P that's a different story because there won't be a pre-existing playerbase.
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I've read some editorials online about the free to play business model - and honestly, thanks to free social gaming like Facebook - it might very well be the new business model for future MMO's/online games. I have friends who fork out money to play Facebook games - buying those little microtransactions. My mom does it.
F2P could be a good thing - even for an established MMO - because it opens up access to more people who might have wanted to play the game but couldn't afford the subscription or initial investment. Conversely, I understand the concerns where it opens up the gateway to griefers and farmers - but you can't always look at the bad side of things. You need to take into consideration the good as well as the bad, but always try to put your emphasis and efforts into concentrating on the good.
I don't think any established MMO would make the switch without considering where it has failed but also where it has succeed in the MMO genre. They would be wise to understand what factored into those failures and successes. I think they would need to understand their playerbase and their perceptions of the free to play business model and build an unique F2P model that satisfies the concerns of their existing playerbase while at the same time making the game accessible to new "free" players without restricting them severely.
Yes, ultimately what I think what would make or break the transition to free to play for an established MMO is the community reaction - but the community would have choice. They can choose to resist the inevitable change, or they could embrace it and embrace the "new" generation of players into their fold.
Personally, I don't see the free to play business model being an entirely bad thing for an established MMO, but as a chance to build an even more robust social community - if the community is willing to embrace it.*
/end ramble
* diehard soloers will disagree. Noted.
Oh, and to toss some Golden Girl goodness into my thread, here are the winks and smiles.
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I'm sure the initial development debt has been paid by now, but it still has recurring costs associated with employees, facilities etc. How much that all costs per month is uncertain since the quarterlies doesn't break down costs per game. So we can't really determine if 1 mil a month (closer to 900k) is good, damn good or just ok. All we can say is continued decline is not preferred since at the near future it tends to mean cost cutting somewhere, either future development and/or infrastructure.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
One million dollars a month for a 7 yr old MMO game that still maintains a subscription fee isn't just good - its damn good! And you know the game has more than paid for itself by now.
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Maybe all the sale promos they're having this quarter will bump it up a bit.
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This was mentioned earlier in the thread, it is total income (which includes subscriptions).
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
From what I understand of the graph that was posted - that's revenue of new sales (i.e. new accounts or booster pack purchases) and not of continuing subscriptions. OP, correct me if I'm wrong.
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My understanding is that generally accepted international accounting rules require NCSoft to account for subscription revenue as realized upon delivery of the service: i.e. your sub money gets amortized across the duration of your subscription. Every player subscribed for the month of May counts towards the revenue for the month of May. If you're paying annually, one twelfth of your sub is being counted as a "sale" in this month.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
From what I understand of the graph that was posted - that's revenue of new sales (i.e. new accounts or booster pack purchases) and not of continuing subscriptions. OP, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Ah, gotcha.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
This was mentioned earlier in the thread, it is total income (which includes subscriptions).
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I am so not an accounting/math person.
Look at costs:
DS3 - about $500 a month give or take each line
Monthly server costs - lets be really extravagant and say $25k a month
Staff monthly - again lets be extravagant - $400k a month
So let's say to round it off $500k a month to run the show.
$500k a month profit every single month, not too shabby.
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Pours out a libation in memory of Back Alley Brawler and the Laid-off Eight.
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Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
All we can say is continued decline is not preferred since at the near future it tends to mean cost cutting somewhere, either future development and/or infrastructure.
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Spoilsport. You would have to ruin my having fun with the doomcrying F2P advocates. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's actually factually false in a number of ways. First of all the numbers say that Cryptic itself as a line of business generated a net 17.9 million Euro loss over the last two fiscal years (apparently many internet reporters have difficulty with the funny squiggly e-looking thing).
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Two ways to look at it here:|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
I'm sure the initial development debt has been paid by now, but it still has recurring costs associated with employees, facilities etc. How much that all costs per month is uncertain since the quarterlies doesn't break down costs per game. So we can't really determine if 1 mil a month (closer to 900k) is good, damn good or just ok. All we can say is continued decline is not preferred since at the near future it tends to mean cost cutting somewhere, either future development and/or infrastructure.
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1) Our revenue is declining, so let's wind down production to match the declining revenue and let it gracefully, but profitably dwindle away.
2) Our product is aging, but the IP has been well-received over its lifespan, and that makes this intellectual property valuable, and worthy of a new product that can take advantage of its popularity. It will require a fresh cash investment in excess to the existing revenue stream, but one that could be drawn from the revenue of a successful launch, much as the initial investment was.
You should add points on the graph to show the launches of Conan, CO, STO, DCUO, Rift and (just for the lulz) APB.
That might add more context, each of those games took a section of my global friend list with it.
Except APB of course.
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!