CoX Quarter Earnings - Q1 2011
By
0zymandous,
Posted on: 2011-05-17 24:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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In all fairness I meant the game still has life in her; I didn't mean it could maintain the same level of support staff salaries it used to (and I'm the one who openly predicted layoffs months before they came to pass - a fact I'm not entirely proud of). If the current income remains consistent, COH1 could still maintain a relatively small employee base that could keep the game "fresh" for another 2-3 years minimum.|
Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
I'm sure the initial development debt has been paid by now, but it still has recurring costs associated with employees, facilities etc. How much that all costs per month is uncertain since the quarterlies doesn't break down costs per game. So we can't really determine if 1 mil a month (closer to 900k) is good, damn good or just ok. All we can say is continued decline is not preferred since at the near future it tends to mean cost cutting somewhere, either future development and/or infrastructure.
Maybe all the sale promos they're having this quarter will bump it up a bit. |
Trust me, the game isn't going away anytime soon. Be glad.
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Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Honestly, it's pretty clear that Going Rogue failed. The meager bump in subscriber numbers that the game experienced when Going Rogue went live is gone, and now the game has even fewer subscriptions than the period before Going Rogue. Too little, too late I suppose.
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The "meager bump in subscriber numbers" isn't the measure of success for business purposes. The measure is-- did the boost in revenue experienced at and around release exceed the investment made through the expansion?. If so, it was successful. The spike of several million in the third quarter may not seem like much, even if you also have to include the # of people that may have stuck around for the release that otherwise wouldn't, but it may not NEED to be a lot.
The entire original CoH game launched for under $15mil from most accounts (some say under $10mil, one semi-reliable source specified ~$12m) so it isn't unlikely that the expansion-- using existing tools, existing server tech, existing practices, etc- could have come in well under that level, making it a success that's worth repeating.
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Again, it depends on the F2P structure. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
While all those other things you mentioned are considered negatives by many people the biggest thing I think players of sub based games look at is how much more they spend per month on microtransactions when compared to what they used to pay for a monthly sub.
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If the players of an established MMO reaallly hate the F2P structure of another MMO - do you think that established MMO switching to a F2P business model would be smart to copy it - or - try something different?
I don't believe an MMO moving to a F2P business model would be wise to take the "gated approach" - i.e. have to pay to advance - but instead allow the entire game to be accessible on a free account level and the microtransactions involved would have to be something that enhances the gameplay experience instead of "completing" it.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
Again, it depends on the F2P structure.
If the players of an established MMO reaallly hate the F2P structure of another MMO - do you think that established MMO switching to a F2P business model would be smart to copy it - or - try something different? I don't believe an MMO moving to a F2P business model would be wise to take the "gated approach" - i.e. have to pay to advance - but instead allow the entire game to be accessible on a free account level and the microtransactions involved would have to be something that enhances the gameplay experience instead of "completing" it. |
An F2P game that doesn't have monthly sub fees has to make it's money solely off of microtransactions. That means that players will be getting nickeled and dimed for things that used to be included with their sub fee. It's that simple.
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That's the only F2P business model we've seen for an MMO that's transitioned to a F2P (or at least that I'm aware of.)|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
An F2P game that doesn't have monthly sub fees has to make it's money solely off of microtransactions. That means that players will be getting nickeled and dimed for things that used to be included with their sub fee. It's that simple.
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I'm sure there's alternate methods to sustaining a game on F2P that we haven't thought of, or considered, and it shouldn't be assumed that the way it was done (and as some would argued, failed) is the only way to do it. You're assuming that an established MMO would have to eliminate its monthly subscriptions entirely to go to F2P - what if it didn't?
Let me ask you, what do you think an established MMO would have to do to transition to "free to play" without nickel and dime'ing it's established player base? How would it have to make money off of having "monthly subs" and free accounts, without "gating" the advancement of the free accounts or limiting their experience of the game?
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To me, the best transition scenario is where some content is purchased with points, and points are either purchased via micro transactions, and/or accrued over time through varying levels of subscription... let's say $5, 10, and 15 dollar recurring subs (I think this roughly how a certain audio-book company operates, and probably a MMO or two).|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
That's the only F2P business model we've seen for an MMO that's transitioned to a F2P (or at least that I'm aware of.)
I'm sure there's alternate methods to sustaining a game on F2P that we haven't thought of, or considered, and it shouldn't be assumed that the way it was done (and as some would argued, failed) is the only way to do it. You're assuming that an established MMO would have to eliminate its monthly subscriptions entirely to go to F2P - what if it didn't? |
I think having a flexible subscription model combined with micro-transactions helps to get the best of both worlds. I also think that having different tiers of subscriptions would help to get subs from people who are put-off by both MTs and $15/month subs.
"There's villainy ... and then there's supervillainy. The difference is performance."
-Doc_Reverend
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I've seen others.
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
That's the only F2P business model we've seen for an MMO that's transitioned to a F2P
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You have read nothing of the sort posted by me.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
So it's okay for the doomies to make blanket statements but not anyone else. Gotcha.
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How on earth is my posting I think blanket statements of one type are funny some lead-in to make you think blanket statements of an equally silly nature are not?
I think the doomsayers are perhaps the saddest of posters, if you really want to know.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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Wait, what? BAB is gone? Granted, his last post was over a year ago, but still. Shocking news even though it's relatively old. |
Originally Posted by TrueGentleman
Pours out a libation in memory of Back Alley Brawler and the Laid-off Eight.
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Edit - Gah...didn't know Castle was gone either. Damn, is Positron the only one left?
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No... only part of him... just... Posi...
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Originally Posted by Dark One
Wait, what? BAB is gone? Granted, his last post was over a year ago, but still. Shocking news even though it's relatively old.
Edit - Gah...didn't know Castle was gone either. Damn, is Positron the only one left? |
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That was actually the second title that Turbine transitioned to a hybrid F2P model. Both of their MMOs were subscription based at first, then they switched to 'you can have a subscription and get all the story content and most of the classes/races or you can be free and just buy what you want'. I personally think their tabletop inspired game weathered the transition better, because it's so focused on instances it's much easier to group content into purchasable packs.|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
The switch to F2P helped the game overall, right?
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EDIT: Forgot the rest.
Yes, it helped both games immensely. They're VASTLY more popular now. Their operating expenses went up a bit because of the larger population that isn't paying monthly, but people seem much more inclined to spend SOME money as opposed to the "spending every month" or "not playing at all" options.
It seems to be a win for everyone involved IF you have your content and gameplay set up in a way that can support it.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Softcapping an Invuln is fantastic. Softcapping a Willpower is amazing. Softcapping SR is kissing your sister.
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Oh great. We get to keep the part that likes the nerfings. >.<
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Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
No... only part of him... just... Posi...
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So, suffice to say, an established MMO looking to transition to F2P would be wise to take a nod to what worked for Turbine and heed what didn't work for others?|
Originally Posted by Void_Huntress
That was actually the second title that Turbine transitioned to a hybrid F2P model. Both of their MMOs were subscription based at first, then they switched to 'you can have a subscription and get all the story content and most of the classes/races or you can be free and just buy what you want'. I personally think their tabletop inspired game weathered the transition better, because it's so focused on instances it's much easier to group content into purchasable packs.
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Overall, switching to F2P, if done right, can boost an MMO rather than destroy it?
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No, this part just says "Noted."
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Originally Posted by Dark One
Oh great. We get to keep the part that likes the nerfings. >.<
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Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
You have read nothing of the sort posted by me.
How on earth is my posting I think blanket statements of one type are funny some lead-in to make you think blanket statements of an equally silly nature are not? I think the doomsayers are perhaps the saddest of posters, if you really want to know. |
Apparently you didn't see the winking emote I used in my post to let people reading it know it wasn't a serious statement. So sad that your first reaction is assume the worst and get defensive.
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That's the F2P business model the MMO I was talking about has followed with differences to fit it's super hero theme.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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They both have 3 types of accounts. Free, monthly subs, and lieftime subs, and they both offer microtransactions where players now pay for things they used to get included with their monthly sub befor egoing F2P. And both have gated content that free accounts have to buy to access.
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They do have a game launching in 2011. At least projected to launch in 2011. Doesn't mean it actually will, but there ya go.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
...(snippers)...but with no new MMO for 2011 to give another lifetime sub boost, they might think it's not worth hanging on to them.
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I don't think it has so much to do with the LTS, as it has to do with the company in question's business practices.
For some reason, I don't see many folks acknowledging that this company had issues with another F2P transition that many seem to consider a successful transition.
Let's Dance!
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TRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOONNNN!!!|
Originally Posted by voodoogirl
no, this part just says "noted."
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Edit - Stupid anti-capitalizing thingambob.
I would like to remind everyone once again of Rule 8 of the City of Heroes forums, which states:
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I encourage you all to continue the discussion here, but please ensure that in posting, you do not act in contravention to the above-mentioned rule (or any forum rule, ideally).|
8. Compare/Contrast and Off-topic threads. All of these forums fall under the general topic of City of Heroes. However, we do allow a wider variety of discussion topics in the Comic and Hero/Villain Culture forum and on the server forums. We encourage non disruptive off topic discussion in those forums along the line that fits with the community of posters who frequent them.
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Thank you all for your contributions to the City of Heroes community!
~Freitag
Kevin Callanan
Community Specialist
Paragon Studios
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So, for you, an F2P business model that has subscription levels (albeit all ungated in terms of access/content), but also has "microtransactions" that give additional benefits/bonuses/items of things that weren't previously included/available in the game (prior to F2P) would be something you feel the existing playerbase could get behind?
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That's the F2P business model the MMO I was talking about has followed with differences to fit it's super hero theme.
They both have 3 types of accounts. Free, monthly subs, and lieftime subs, and they both offer microtransactions where players now pay for things they used to get included with their monthly sub befor egoing F2P. And both have gated content that free accounts have to buy to access. |
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Originally Posted by Freitag
I would like to remind everyone once again of Rule 8 of the City of Heroes forums, which states:
I encourage you all to continue the discussion here, but please ensure that in posting, you do not act in contravention to the above-mentioned rule (or any forum rule, ideally). Thank you all for your contributions to the City of Heroes community! ~Freitag |
...but... but... violating those rules are the only way I get messages in my inbox!
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And how exactly can we discuss F2P without mentioning another game? |
Originally Posted by Freitag
I encourage you all to continue the discussion here, but please ensure that in posting, you do not act in contravention to the above-mentioned rule
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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We have to speak in hypothetical terms of "other games."
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
And how exactly can we discuss F2P without mentioning another game?
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Yeah, like that one game that has something to do with rings that has made far more money by going F2P than it ever did with subs...|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
We have to speak in hypothetical terms of "other games."
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But this game should just continue as-is, IMO.
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I've read some editorials online about the free to play business model - and honestly, thanks to free social gaming like Facebook - it might very well be the new business model for future MMO's/online games. I have friends who fork out money to play Facebook games - buying those little microtransactions. My mom does it.
F2P could be a good thing - even for an established MMO - because it opens up access to more people who might have wanted to play the game but couldn't afford the subscription or initial investment. Conversely, I understand the concerns where it opens up the gateway to griefers and farmers - but you can't always look at the bad side of things. You need to take into consideration the good as well as the bad, but always try to put your emphasis and efforts into concentrating on the good.
I don't think any established MMO would make the switch without considering where it has failed but also where it has succeed in the MMO genre. They would be wise to understand what factored into those failures and successes. I think they would need to understand their playerbase and their perceptions of the free to play business model and build an unique F2P model that satisfies the concerns of their existing playerbase while at the same time making the game accessible to new "free" players without restricting them severely.
Yes, ultimately what I think what would make or break the transition to free to play for an established MMO is the community reaction - but the community would have choice. They can choose to resist the inevitable change, or they could embrace it and embrace the "new" generation of players into their fold.
Personally, I don't see the free to play business model being an entirely bad thing for an established MMO, but as a chance to build an even more robust social community - if the community is willing to embrace it.*
/end ramble
* diehard soloers will disagree. Noted.
Oh, and to toss some Golden Girl goodness into my thread, here are the winks and smiles.
While all those other things you mentioned are considered negatives by many people the biggest thing I think players of sub based games look at is how much more they spend per month on microtransactions when compared to what they used to pay for a monthly sub.