I think this i20 screwed up the game
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-04-10 10:40 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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I think the idea is to convert the Empyrean merits (when they don't randomly vanish from your inventory) to get the rare stuff rather than paying to craft it.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
And 100 million ? Wow yea I have it, but even for me it's a lot. I surely cannot do this on all my characters. I could do it on maybe 1 or 2 even 3, but that is it. It would take me some time or a bit of luck to get it for anymore of my toons slotted with these powers.
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nitpick i suppose but the entire mac client wasn't down. i'm pretty sure it was just ATI based macs. i'm also on a mac(ironic i know) and i've played some basically every day.
| ( Mac client was down since i20 came out ) |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
I did a baf last night and we won pretty quickly (yeah my first out of many losses). The more people that know what they are doing the easier it gets.
We are all used to the game being so easy that you could sleep through it. A little challenge is nice.
I haven't seen people getting hostile, what server are you on?
Heaven forbid there should be any learning curve to new content!
It hasn't even been a week. Give folks an opportunity to figure out the new trials. For what it's worth, all of the trials I joined in yesterday were successful.
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I'm getting the new abilities so that I can take on more challenging content, which the devs are finally delivering.
| I think these missions are nice, but bad concept. Your just running to get the new powers so you can solo other content much faster or better. |
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Freedom.. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Kingkillaha
I did a baf last night and we won pretty quickly (yeah my first out of many losses). The more people that know what they are doing the easier it gets.
We are all used to the game being so easy that you could sleep through it. A little challenge is nice. I haven't seen people getting hostile, what server are you on? |
I mean I am not gonna give out names of course but I clearly tagged these people. Look I'm no ray of sunshine but I tell you, you can feel the rage of some players come across the screen.
And I agree tougher content and learning curve. All great stuff, but they should maybe make it where you have a bit more choices. Maybe make it where you can pick as an option where everyone in the PUG must be Alpha Slotted ? I've done a few and some players were not Alpha slotted. Again no issue, it is what it is. You get 16 players together on a PUG your bound to have several non alpha slotted.
Overall I think they should give you some sort of tutorial or somewhere you can find info about the new stuff. I read up on what players have posted so I understand some of it.
I think because they went easier over the years and not staying the same everyone expects it now. You could never get to 50 in 3 days when the game first came out. I think in certain games it is pretty much expected if you want to do some particular high end content you need to have the gear to contend to do that content, anything less will not work out. This game has not had anything like that in YEARS. I think that is what made some players come here that you can get to 50 and do 50 content. Eventually they made it where you no longer needed to be a specific tank aka Stoner to be able to contend or be viable. Same goes for Empathy. Which is not a complaint. It is actually a good thing so now everyone can feel useful and your not pigeon holed into getting certain class or AT to be able to do a mission.
Again I have no complaint about the content except it feels short and rushed. I have yet to go either end of BAF I pretty much have stood at the Tennis Courts and at one point where prisoners exit and try to escape.
I have no clue what the glowies do along the wall and I wouldn't dare touch them to find out I screwed something up.
So I basically go in expecting to fail. I go in do what I/we can and see how far it goes. Pretty much there comes a point where players start seeing your dying too much and just bail and attempt get on another PUG. So if you have both Siege and Nightstar left to kill a 2nd time around and if you have 2 minutes to go and they are at full health you know your not going to complete so players bail. I think that is where this whole thing fails.
It doesn't even come down to that point in the Lam mission if you have 8 or 9 players, people being to bail right after the EB fight or play it safe during the Pacifier / Acid acquisition part to soak up a bit xp and drops and then bail.
Maybe make it where you can choose the team size and the longer you wait for that team size the higher the rewards ? This way you can do a PUG of 8 every 10 minutes or wait 30 minutes for a PUG of 16 and get a bit more experience and drops.
Personally I just pick the first available and stick around until it ends unless it is obvious that us 4 cannot fight maurader.
@ The_Spad_EU
Looking at the Tier 3 interface slot I recall seeing 100,000,000 as the price to combine. Similar to when you make an IO. I could have misunderstood it I guess. But I don't see how you don't pay the money part. I sure don't want to pay if I don't have to.
Correction about the Mac client, it was the newer ATI for the most part. But others non ATI did have issues as well.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
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That's one way to get a Rare component. You can also get one from a end-of-trial reward table with a bit of luck. You can use 8 Empyrean Merits to craft one for no inf cost (or 30 to craft a Very Rare). Lastly, completing the "Master Of" badge for a trial will give you a random Rare component.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
looking at the Tier 3 interface slot I recall seeing 100,000,000 as the price to combine. Similar to when you make an IO. I could have misunderstood it I guess. But I don't see how you don't pay the money part. I sure don't want to pay if I don't have to.
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The 100-million-inf option is pretty much there as a last resort.
I'd quote the OP, but I pretty much disagreed with every trend cited. Maybe it's the server, or the weekend bringing in players that haven't played the trials yet, but everything I've seen across several servers as the week has gone on is contrary to the OP.
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Same. Not seeing the hate, other than from some prolific forum posters with an axe to grind. Sorry you are having such a rough go of it plainguy, but things will improve I am sure.
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Originally Posted by brophog02
I'd quote the OP, but I pretty much disagreed with every trend cited. Maybe it's the server, or the weekend bringing in players that haven't played the trials yet, but everything I've seen across several servers as the week has gone on is contrary to the OP.
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Agreed. The first night I20 was live, I did one of each trial. Failed both.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
I'd quote the OP, but I pretty much disagreed with every trend cited. Maybe it's the server, or the weekend bringing in players that haven't played the trials yet, but everything I've seen across several servers as the week has gone on is contrary to the OP.
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Thursday night, did one of each trial. BAF succeeded. Lambda failed due to misunderstanding leader communication.
Saturday, did 7 Lambda's and 5 BAF's. On the third BAF, due to popular request, we did the badge where you keep the 2 AV's separated and I got the "Master of" badge. Moreover, all 12 runs were successes. All recruited through global channels by people who, as it turns out, knew what they were doing.
The learning curve on this is WAY faster than I anticipated. As long as people listen, the iTrials are really not that hard - and they get easier as more and more people get iShifted.
Avoiding random queueing also helps, I think.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
These complaints have not been my experience at all. The first night or two, the teams I was on failed quite a bit. Was initially trying to go in solo via the TUT and Turnstile feature. After a night or two, there were several leagues being formed in the coop zones and then entering the turnstile, thus preforming the group instead of going with random people. That works very very well. The leaders knew what to do and clearly (mostly) communicated and led the team to victories.
Also from what I've seen, with the pre-formed groups, the people who do know what to do and when have gone through, made sure everyone had the League channel in their chat window to see communications, communicated the plan, asked if there were any rookies, or any questions before going into the turnstile. Everyone's cooperated. And the majority have been successful.
Since about Thursday night, I've only failed 2 BAFs and never failed a Lamda. One of the failed BAFs was an attempted master run, where we were off killing one of the AVs by one second, and they rez'd each other, and just overrun us afterwards, and we ran out of time ultimately. Not bad for a lot of first master run attempts. The other failure, some of the teams didn't follow the instructions properly and improperly positioned themselves for the prisoner escape and just missed too many. Was their frustration...yes, but we just regrouped, communicated the changes in strategy, and we were completely successful the next run.
Most other missions in this game (with a few exceptions, usually the newer stuff, but still can take this approach some of the time) can all be completed with simply overpowering a few tougher baddies and still win. These are the first real content in the game that truly depends on team cooperation all the way around in order to succeed. If your team doesn't work together and cooperate and employ strategy you will not beat these trials.
But it only takes one person to know what to do and to be able to communicate that. Suddenly...dozens of people have an idea of what to do to beat these things. Are the more difficult than the rest of the game...yes. Are they so difficult that an average team can't get it, not at all.
My only complaint about the new trials so far (I've done a mere one Lamba and zero BAF) is the lack of information. You have not even the slightest guess of what's going on short of having teammates that have already run several and feel like informing the team. Gigantic red letters "War Walker powers up it's Orbital Lance!"... OK? So what? What does that mean to me? (To that end.. I still have no idea. Same goes for Marauders Nova Fist or whatever it's called. I just know it one-shots my tank...)
Just a little help and extra information would go a mile towards overall team entertainment and success.
I haven't failed a trial, either lamda or baf, since the night i20 went live. Running them like clockwork on Victory, now that everyone knows what to do and so many people have their incarnate slots working I actually consider them pretty trivial at this point.
edit: I should note that I have not used the turnstyle since the first night either. After sitting in it one day for around an hour when the wait time was an average of "4 minutes" I decided to just go to Pocket D and see if any were forming. Thats the ticket 
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I think you answered your own question. Its an indication and a really big attack is about to hit that is likely to one-shot you, and you should probably move if you doubt you can take it.
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Originally Posted by Scirion
Gigantic red letters "War Walker powers up it's Orbital Lance!"... OK? So what? What does that mean to me? (To that end.. I still have no idea. Same goes for Marauders Nova Fist or whatever it's called. I just know it one-shots my tank...)
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Combined with the giant red target reticle on the ground, I found it a fairly obvious Something Bad Is Happening Be Careful alert.|
Originally Posted by Scirion
Gigantic red letters "War Walker powers up it's Orbital Lance!"...
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| Same goes for Marauders Nova Fist or whatever it's called. |
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And Posi has already said this will be a continuing trend where people can fail and still get partial rewards. Do you honestly think they are going to make the final Incarnate trial and fully expect people to complete it the first time through? The Incarnate stuff should be hard. You should fail. You should have to keep doing it until you can complete it and feel actual satisfaction in doing the hardest thing the game has. This game as a whole has neutered difficulty to such a level I swear people complain if it doesn't feel like the devs are holding their hands. "Man, I need to IO out my build, get def capped, perma (insert power), and whatever else I need so I can blitz through TFs on +0 setting. Wait, they made something where I can actually fail? What the hell are they thinking?" |
Originally Posted by plainguy
People have been getting so pissed off because teams are failing these new Trials.
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If people get emotional because they fail a trial, blame the people not the trial.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
Combined with the giant red target reticle on the ground, I found it a fairly obvious Something Bad Is Happening Be Careful alert.
The Nova Fist warning even specifically says to get away from him, doesn't it? |
Maybe a big red bullseye and a skull and crossbones at your feet would get the message across.... MOVE!!!!
Kyle Al'Mordu - Lvl 50 MA/SR Scrap
Fusion Force!
TRIUMPH
Since day 1 of i20 hitting live i think i've won over 30 lambdas, and about a dozen or so Bafs. my first 2 bafs were failed, but only because the adds were just too nasty and basically steamrolled our faces in. I've been recruiting from both public and private global channels, and getting people i play with on a regular basis. Some know where to do, others don't.
The trials are only as hard as you make them. If you refuse to listen, or don't pay attention to the text in that flashes across your screen, then the trials are going to be a pain. If you pay attention, then you'll be completing these trials in under 20 mins. (my fastest Lambda run is about 22 mins, my fastest Baf is about 13 mins, both getting atlest 1 of the badges required in Master Of, and my fastest Lambda run was while doing the no acids badge, and just zerging marauder down.
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The Orbital Lance warning, and the massive red targeting reticle that comes with it, isn't new. It's been around since i18 or 19 when the entire Praetorian faction was revamped to fit the new lore. Players unfamiliar with it obviously haven't been messing with any of the arcs or TFs that involve them. As for the Nova Fist, it definitely tells you to get away from Marauder. Does that not indicate a nasty PBAoE is coming up?|
Originally Posted by Scirion
My only complaint about the new trials so far (I've done a mere one Lamba and zero BAF) is the lack of information. You have not even the slightest guess of what's going on short of having teammates that have already run several and feel like informing the team. Gigantic red letters "War Walker powers up it's Orbital Lance!"... OK? So what? What does that mean to me? (To that end.. I still have no idea. Same goes for Marauders Nova Fist or whatever it's called. I just know it one-shots my tank...)
Just a little help and extra information would go a mile towards overall team entertainment and success. |
I'll admit there is a lack of info in-game but there are two Dev written guides and a few great player written ones as well. The Incarnate Trials are a major departure from the usual CoX content style. They fall more along the lines of what you'd see in other MMO endgame stuff. The initial difficulty, lack of know how and appropriate abilities to guarantee completion are all things players of those other, more traditionally designed, MMOs are familiar with and expect.
For the time being it sucks but bear in mind that this is probably a one time thing. Once players have the new Incarnate abilities and the associated level shifts the Devs won't be able to make enemies more difficult just by giving them a significant level advantage. No doubt they'll find a way but it won't be as frustrating as the current, "All enemies are +3 at the minimum. You fail."
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Wanna bet? I think there's a good chance we'll see enemies with level shifts of their own in the later trials (i.e. a 54(+2) AV for example).
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Originally Posted by Timeshadow
For the time being it sucks but bear in mind that this is probably a one time thing. Once players have the new Incarnate abilities and the associated level shifts the Devs won't be able to make enemies more difficult just by giving them a significant level advantage. No doubt they'll find a way but it won't be as frustrating as the current, "All enemies are +3 at the minimum. You fail."
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THIS is why I am happy to play in the EU. over here, we understand that this is new and people are going have a few teething troubles getting to grips with it.|
Originally Posted by plainguy
I don't know I really think i20 screwed up this game. People have been getting so pissed off because teams are failing these new Trials. I've been on only 2 days because I'm on a MAC ( Mac client was down since i20 came out ) and I have to tell you as the time goes by people are just getting worse.
You have a new player who never did a Trial as the league leader who has no clue how to move players around. Does not know how to use the new UI. So you have players cursing at the guy as he tries to figure it out. Even when I say I'm explaining it to the person, players are just going nuts. I've had players say I would kick that guy in the face. You guys all F'ing suck and should die.. It's like over the top insane. Basically these Trials have done nothing but foster much more hate against other players. One BAF Trial we had one tank having a slight issue and as usual once the team wipes pretty much everything goes out of control. But it got so crazy during the last part one person cursed out the Tank, again way over the top and of course the tank split. I even jumped on a team I though the guy knew what he was doing and he was picking certain players.. Had 3 teams and even that fell apart. He never did the Trial before. He was just winging it.. On top I don't know I sort of feel like a hamster on a wheel. Pretty much about 90% of the teams are through the auto pick up method. So your doing the mission even though you know you can't complete it for drops. I think these missions are nice, but bad concept. Your just running to get the new powers so you can solo other content much faster or better. Its 2 missions with 10 new widgets. They really don't explain how to use them or where to go to read up on it. Am I doing a bad idea by down converting some of those astral thingy ? Who knows. I understand they didn't want players farming the old stuff and have the new powers the moment this stuff went live, but this stuff is a bit silly. And 100 million ? Wow yea I have it, but even for me it's a lot. I surely cannot do this on all my characters. I could do it on maybe 1 or 2 even 3, but that is it. It would take me some time or a bit of luck to get it for anymore of my toons slotted with these powers. It is as if they are assuming everyone is farming and can do this without even a thought. I might not be getting my point across very well. But I hope I am making some sense. I am much better at public speaker then I am at writing. |
A few years ago, I was on a US trial, and one player who was leading his FIRST hami raid, was the victim of a not very nice thread, decrying his ability to play.
In the EU, I with friends have run Hami raids, and when things don't go according to plan - NO-ONE starts shouting the odds. Sometimes **** just happens.
Obviously I stuck up (supported) for the said player, but I don't think I made many friends that day either.
Sometimes some people need to take a step back and realize that this is just a game.
LLAP
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Originally Posted by Scirion
My only complaint about the new trials so far (I've done a mere one Lamba and zero BAF) is the lack of information. You have not even the slightest guess of what's going on short of having teammates that have already run several and feel like informing the team. Gigantic red letters "War Walker powers up it's Orbital Lance!"... OK? So what? What does that mean to me? (To that end.. I still have no idea. Same goes for Marauders Nova Fist or whatever it's called. I just know it one-shots my tank...)
Just a little help and extra information would go a mile towards overall team entertainment and success. |
I used to grouse about the lack of information too, especially for the casual players. But then I realized I was trying to be one step above casual (below the elite 15 billion build guys though) but doing it the hard way. So I looked up Paragon Wikki and did some homework.
When the phrase 'Powering up' anything is coupled with a big red glowing circle on the ground common sense tells me not to be there. Sorry, got me on that one.
I still don't understand Lamda (done one, badly led, didn't learn much) but after half a dozen or so BAFs I feel like I could almost run one. Last time I was helping the leader give advice to new players.
Anyone who just jumps into ANY TF and tries to lead it without following someone at least once in in for trouble. I don't see the vitriol you've experienced but then I haven't seen a league built with the Queue either. Mostly built up of friends and people the leader has teamed with before.
Good luck on finding better teams.
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This is what I keep thinking.|
Originally Posted by Mr ?
Sometimes some people need to take a step back and realize that this is just a game.
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Some folks are playing to get these rewards as if the game is going to go offline tomorrow and is they don't have them, they are going to lose their house and job.
Some folks are just taking all of this WAY too seriously.
Humans do so love their hyperbole.
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exactly this
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Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
Agreed. The first night I20 was live, I did one of each trial. Failed both.
The learning curve on this is WAY faster than I anticipated. As long as people listen, the iTrials are really not that hard - and they get easier as more and more people get iShifted. Avoiding random queueing also helps, I think. |
defiant only
@amartia
my public list : http://cit.cohtitan.com/profile/9355
I don't know I really think i20 screwed up this game. People have been getting so pissed off because teams are failing these new Trials. I've been on only 2 days because I'm on a MAC ( Mac client was down since i20 came out ) and I have to tell you as the time goes by people are just getting worse.
You have a new player who never did a Trial as the league leader who has no clue how to move players around. Does not know how to use the new UI. So you have players cursing at the guy as he tries to figure it out. Even when I say I'm explaining it to the person, players are just going nuts. I've had players say I would kick that guy in the face. You guys all F'ing suck and should die.. It's like over the top insane.
Basically these Trials have done nothing but foster much more hate against other players. One BAF Trial we had one tank having a slight issue and as usual once the team wipes pretty much everything goes out of control. But it got so crazy during the last part one person cursed out the Tank, again way over the top and of course the tank split.
I even jumped on a team I though the guy knew what he was doing and he was picking certain players.. Had 3 teams and even that fell apart. He never did the Trial before. He was just winging it..
On top I don't know I sort of feel like a hamster on a wheel. Pretty much about 90% of the teams are through the auto pick up method. So your doing the mission even though you know you can't complete it for drops.
I think these missions are nice, but bad concept. Your just running to get the new powers so you can solo other content much faster or better.
Its 2 missions with 10 new widgets. They really don't explain how to use them or where to go to read up on it. Am I doing a bad idea by down converting some of those astral thingy ? Who knows. I understand they didn't want players farming the old stuff and have the new powers the moment this stuff went live, but this stuff is a bit silly. And 100 million ? Wow yea I have it, but even for me it's a lot. I surely cannot do this on all my characters. I could do it on maybe 1 or 2 even 3, but that is it. It would take me some time or a bit of luck to get it for anymore of my toons slotted with these powers.
It is as if they are assuming everyone is farming and can do this without even a thought.
I might not be getting my point across very well. But I hope I am making some sense. I am much better at public speaker then I am at writing.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives