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I'm neither. The movie is just mediocre. It's not a matter of "not getting it" (it isn't that deep or difficult to figure out) or too violent or too flashy. It's all style and very little substance. Bad acting, bad casting, bad editing and an only middle of the road story. It's only saving grace were the visuals and music. If that movie were just set in the institution and brothel it would be Showgirls.
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Originally Posted by Serva_Obscura
Other than the squeamish and those who really dislike over-the-top visual sequences I have no idea why people dislike Sucker Punch, I thought it was fantastic.
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@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
For me, the first few minutes are the best part of the film.
***SPOILERS*** (that have already been said, but still...)
The emotion of losing the mother, the scumminess of the stepfather, the loss of the little sister, and then the arrival at the mental institution all play very well and are beautifully shot and genuinly emotional. As soon as they switch to night club/brothel-mode it starts to break-down. The action sequences, while awesome, then feel forced and thrown-in, and just become a distraction from actual plot.
Yes, I know what ZS was trying to do, I just don't think he did it well. The only Sucker Punch was the one to my wallet.
PS - the soundtrack is great, though.
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Personally I just liked the action, I thought the rest was a downer. |
Originally Posted by Night_Fyre
For me, the first few minutes are the best part of the film.
***SPOILERS*** (that have already been said, but still...) |
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| The emotion of losing the mother, the scumminess of the stepfather, the loss of the little sister, and then the arrival at the mental institution all play very well and are beautifully shot and genuinly emotional. As soon as they switch to night club/brothel-mode it starts to break-down. The action sequences, while awesome, then feel forced and thrown-in, and just become a distraction from actual plot. |
Just as you thought the action scenes were a distraction, those like me who went to see it expecting a light-hearted, anime-style action movie probably didn't appreciate the disturbing real-world story with a tragic ending.
I'm not so sure many of us are critical as a matter of personal taste though. It's not just a simple matter of fun/action versus serious, its a matter of execution. (Personally I expected both and it only delivered in one) In my opinion there was very little quality or care in the real world/brothel world aspect of the story (see above) and it made the movie suffer.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
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I read this exact line in a review the other day.
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Originally Posted by Night_Fyre
The only Sucker Punch was the one to my wallet.
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The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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Originally Posted by Dark One
Given the results at the end and the lines of the other orderlies, it is very likely that the head orderly was using the girls in the sanitarium as his own personal harem. Also given the nature of the escapist fantasy, i.e. Babydoll imagining that the workers of the institute as the...customers...of the dance hall, that it wasn't limited to just the head orderly (or whatever that guy was).
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Originally Posted by BrandX
When one of the other orderly's tell Blue they're not going to hurt the girls anymore, I took it be they all had their way with them.
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Originally Posted by Innovator
They just released the the first six minutes of Sucker Punch so you can see for yourself if you want.
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If Sucker Punch had been the movie that had the qualities you just described it would've been a good movie. Unfortunately it only barely scraped the surface of getting as "deep and meaningful" as you described on its own. I respectfully suspect you allowed your mind's eye to add in many of the things you wanted to see by filling in all the gaps that were actually present there.|
Originally Posted by Serva_Obscura
Other than the squeamish and those who really dislike over-the-top visual sequences I have no idea why people dislike Sucker Punch, I thought it was fantastic.
This is a woman suffering through the some of the most horrific things a human can go through. Loss of family, betrayal by family, betrayal by "The System", Sexual abuse, condemned to near-brain-death. Things so horrible that even the imaginary world she escapes to is unsafe and tainted by horrors. The "Dance" (which seem to represent the most horrific happening in the real world, most likely each one is an act of ****, pushing her even deeper into her fantasy) fades into the most cartoonish acts of ultra-violence, visually designed to lambaste us for our enjoyment (much like "Natural Born Killers" did) Watching the "brothel" scenes for clues as to what was happening in the real world makes each set a puzzle as corridors and rooms blend the imaginary theatre with the reality of the asylum. It wasn't oscar material, but I thought the plot, characterisation, pathos and sets were beautifully woven together. |
Except for the few minutes of cool action scenes this movie was flawed and shallow in just about every way imaginable. Both the professional reviewers and the horrible box office are proving that point fairly readily. Sometimes horrible movies somehow manage to make a ton of money regardless (i.e. the Transformer movies) but Sucker Punch isn't even managing that kind of pseudo-miracle.
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One benefit of the bad box office is that we will get the uncut extended DVD much sooner. I'm buying it the day it's available.
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Huh. Squeamish is one way to put it. Or maybe the general movie-going public is tired of Hollywood passing off the gratuitously morbid and/or perverted as art. There are movies that make you laugh, movies that make you cry, movies that make you think -- and some rare few that do all three. Those are all good things. All of them have a place in cinema.|
Originally Posted by Serva_Obscura
Other than the squeamish and those who really dislike over-the-top visual sequences I have no idea why people dislike Sucker Punch, I thought it was fantastic.
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Movies that just make you want to vomit? Not so much.
I mean, seriously, a young girl gets imprisoned in a mental hospital, serially *****, and then lobotomized? Sounds like an absolutely scintillating Saturday night out.
I'm sure a lot film makers regard that sort of plotline as edgy and daring, but what they don't seem to understand is that a film like that has to do more, not less, to convince people of its redeeming artistic qualities. We should be past the point where edginess for its own sake is a credible production goal. It's lazy, it's childish, and perhaps most of all, it's patronizing.
It's not that we're too stupid or too prudish or too provincial to understand you, Hollywood. If anything, the problem is that we understand all too well. We see through your supercilious facade. We don't appreciate your sophomoric sermons, your ham-fisted use of exposition, your hilariously brazen hypocrisy. And when film critics -- most of whom are so bored with the everlasting geyser of dreck spewing from your studios that they're inclined to like almost anything that has the slightest tinge of novelty -- almost universally pan a film the subject of which is so obviously abhorrent as Sucker Punch's, well then we're really not gonna show up. In droves.
So by all means, continue to believe that we're all clueless hicks who just want sunshine and unicorns and rainbows erupting from pretty movie stars' shapely posteriors. We'll continue to prefer children's films and mindless action/romance candy -- not because those are the best stories ever told, but because they're at least reliably entertaining and inoffensive. Occasionally, they're even inspiring.
Oddly enough, as production budgets and schedules have expanded beyond the wildest dreams of the old studios, the quality of the product has generally and precipitously declined. Maybe that's because the old studios usually remembered to tell an interesting story, with interesting characters, in addition to fulfilling whatever ersatz-artiste fetish du jour -- whether visual or thematic.
/end general Hollywood rant (and apologies to Serva, whose quote was just a jumping off point)
Good read, this thread.
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Well I guess there's always a silver lining to everything. If Snyder cuts out the bad 90ish minutes of the movie and replaces it with better one I might give it another chance. |
Originally Posted by dbuter
One benefit of the bad box office is that we will get the uncut extended DVD much sooner. I'm buying it the day it's available.
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Hmmm...while yeah, the **** is implied, I never really took it as "oh yeah, look ****!"|
Originally Posted by Obitus
Huh. Squeamish is one way to put it. Or maybe the general movie-going public is tired of Hollywood passing off the gratuitously morbid and/or perverted as art. There are movies that make you laugh, movies that make you cry, movies that make you think -- and some rare few that do all three. Those are all good things. All of them have a place in cinema.
Movies that just make you want to vomit? Not so much. I mean, seriously, a young girl gets imprisoned in a mental hospital, serially *****, and then lobotomized? Sounds like an absolutely scintillating Saturday night out. I'm sure a lot film makers regard that sort of plotline as edgy and daring, but what they don't seem to understand is that a film like that has to do more, not less, to convince people of its redeeming artistic qualities. We should be past the point where edginess for its own sake is a credible production goal. It's lazy, it's childish, and perhaps most of all, it's patronizing. It's not that we're too stupid or too prudish or too provincial to understand you, Hollywood. If anything, the problem is that we understand all too well. We see through your supercilious facade. We don't appreciate your sophomoric sermons, your ham-fisted use of exposition, your hilariously brazen hypocrisy. And when film critics -- most of whom are so bored with the everlasting geyser of dreck spewing from your studios that they're inclined to like almost anything that has the slightest tinge of novelty -- almost universally pan a film the subject of which is so obviously abhorrent as Sucker Punch's, well then we're really not gonna show up. In droves. So by all means, continue to believe that we're all clueless hicks who just want sunshine and unicorns and rainbows erupting from pretty movie stars' shapely posteriors. We'll continue to prefer children's films and mindless action/romance candy -- not because those are the best stories ever told, but because they're at least reliably entertaining and inoffensive. Occasionally, they're even inspiring. Oddly enough, as production budgets and schedules have expanded beyond the wildest dreams of the old studios, the quality of the product has generally and precipitously declined. Maybe that's because the old studios usually remembered to tell an interesting story, with interesting characters, in addition to fulfilling whatever ersatz-artiste fetish du jour -- whether visual or thematic. /end general Hollywood rant (and apologies to Serva, whose quote was just a jumping off point) Good read, this thread. |
And going in, one would think the lobotomy was going to be stopped untill the end.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I suppose it could be stripped down to a decent music video.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Well I guess there's always a silver lining to everything. If Snyder cuts out the bad 90ish minutes of the movie and replaces it with better one I might give it another chance.
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Am I the only one who would love to see a full length movie of clockwork, steam-powered zombie Nazis?
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Actually if it hasn't been done already I wouldn't mind seeing the 15-20 minutes worth of Sucker Punch "dance-action" scenes re-cut and set to cool music on YouTube. That'd be one way to salvage some enjoyment from the effort Snyder put into it.|
Originally Posted by Knight_Errant
I suppose it could be stripped down to a decent music video.
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If Snyder was smart he'd do that officially as part of the DVD/Blu-Ray release so that I could watch that instead of the "movie" ever again.
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Originally Posted by Knight_Marshal
Am I the only one who would love to see a full length movie of clockwork, steam-powered zombie Nazis?
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No...i loved that sequence in the movie which they should have extended a bit longer! Moar katana, tomahawk, musket, gernade and machine gun splosians of zombie nazis with the a minor steampunk feel me likey!
I'd seen the ads on TV and I had seen 300 and Watchmen, so I wanted to see Zach Snyder's latest.
I went to the local AMC theater on a Tuesday because that's the day when they give a discount all day long. Unfortunately, the cashier informed me, Sucker Punch is shown in XD (high definition) so there was no discount for that movie. Argh! I got sucker punched on the way in! Maybe paying $10.50 when I expected a discount influenced my enjoyment of the movie?
Yep, it's a ZS movie: extensive use of green screen; super slow-motion action sequences; camera tracking projectiles such as bullets, arrows, spears, and thrown swords; Carla Gugino; and dark, nihilistic, fatalistic story elements. In short, style over substance.
This outing was even worse because ZS didn't even use a graphic novel as source. (Some consider graphic "novels" to be short-thrift source material for a 90-minute movie.) This original "story" (a very distastful original story) was really just a scenario designed to string together several action set pieces, like a special-effects demo reel.
I told my parents, no, don't go to see it. As mature, sophisticated moviegoers, you wouldn't like it. The movie does not offer an artistic expression of the human condition; it's just eyewash entertainment for younger viewers. Dark, nihilistic, fatalistic, brutal, violent, distasteful eyewash entertainment.
Zach Snyder next is developing a Superman movie with Christopher Nolan as a consultant? I hope Nolan can help ZS find a much different tone for their Superman movie.
Traditionally, Superman's world is sunlit, optimistic, and altruistic (in contrast to Batman). I wonder if Nolan's Superman concept will embrace tradition? Maybe Nolan can give needed thoughtfulness and depth to Snyder's technically brilliant but often emotionally/spiritually/intellectually immature work?
I hope there is a Superman story Snyder can directly lift from or else it will suck.
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Uh, what? how do you show a movie in anything else? it's a massive screen it would be a blurry mess if it was shown at standard TV quality, hell, cinema projectors probably show it at better than the proposed "quad HD" standard. |
Originally Posted by Todogut
Unfortunately, the cashier informed me, Sucker Punch is shown in XD (high definition) so there was no discount for that movie. Argh!
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It's really only applies to TV signals since the quality was so low.
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I'm guessing the ticket-taker has zero knowledge of cinema equipment and was told that it's shown digitally by management who likewise doesn't have any information about what their equipment actually is. And of course all digital movies are high definition by...er...definition, so theatre owners can claim "it's HD!" to charge more for the "enhanced" experience.
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Originally Posted by Cass_
Uh, what? how do you show a movie in anything else? it's a massive screen it would be a blurry mess if it was shown at standard TV quality, hell, cinema projectors probably show it at better than the proposed "quad HD" standard.
It's really only applies to TV signals since the quality was so low. |
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
This movie is not worth the hype. The much hyped action was only about 20 minutes of the movie, the rest was like watching an episode of Hellcats on the CW what a waste.
I'd have to agree with the critics,
I saw this, and hated it
the action scenes were pleasent as was the casting,
Then again, I didn't like Brazil either( a very similar movie)
The problem was, it was pretty obvious exactly how it was going to end, and I found the overlayed realities annoying
In this past weekend's box office, Sucker Punch earned only an estiamted $2.1M, a drop of 65% after being dumped by 40% of the screens since its opening. And that's all she wrote.
With a global gross of $66 million on a budget of $82 million plus at least $30 million (probably more like $50 million) in marketing, that's officially a failure.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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In other words, he'll get the chance to direct movies, but it will be on a short leash. I think he does well with a good source for material, but this was vastly his baby and it flopped because of it.
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Originally Posted by Ironik
With a global gross of $66 million on a budget of $82 million plus at least $30 million (probably more like $50 million) in marketing, that's officially a failure.
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Other than the squeamish and those who really dislike over-the-top visual sequences I have no idea why people dislike Sucker Punch, I thought it was fantastic.
This is a woman suffering through the some of the most horrific things a human can go through. Loss of family, betrayal by family, betrayal by "The System", Sexual abuse, condemned to near-brain-death. Things so horrible that even the imaginary world she escapes to is unsafe and tainted by horrors. The "Dance" (which seem to represent the most horrific happening in the real world, most likely each one is an act of ****, pushing her even deeper into her fantasy) fades into the most cartoonish acts of ultra-violence, visually designed to lambaste us for our enjoyment (much like "Natural Born Killers" did)
Watching the "brothel" scenes for clues as to what was happening in the real world makes each set a puzzle as corridors and rooms blend the imaginary theatre with the reality of the asylum.
It wasn't oscar material, but I thought the plot, characterisation, pathos and sets were beautifully woven together.