So I heard you are redoing Citadel...


Ael Rhiana

 

Posted

I hope you are adding something to redside to balance the time spent focusing on the CTF.


 

Posted

Sub out the number of Council cave maps and call it a day. What really bugs me TF wise? For a level 35+ TF, Numi makes little to no sense whatsoever. Let's reward characters level 35+ for taking on level 1-20 mobs. Repeatedly. Let's have zone events happen so those hunts get delayed. A level 35+ TF should feel epic on some level and Numi completely lacks that. What's epic and challenging about hunting down things that are -15, or worse to you? Only the final mission really offers something of noteworthiness. A quick and dirty fix would be have the team do missions against those mobs and have the team exempted down to the mob's level and let them work their way back up to the TF's level requirements towards the end. Citadel is kind of annoying. Numi is just badly done and I think currently the worst built TF we have. Thinks for a second...outside of the Shard TFs.

And yes, please add a redside TF to help balance out the numbers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm View Post
I hope you are adding something to redside to balance the time spent focusing on the CTF.
Heh.

Personally I think redside still could use a little more content, SFs, trials or trial like short SFs while blueside doesn't really need more but some overall refurbishing. Expand one, update the other. Though this may sound lopsided to some, I personally feel it accurately reflects the current state of the game.


 

Posted

You're lucky to have me here, Devs! As one who looks for the best in the game in every bit of content I play, I hereby provide you with a simple guide for revising older content to make it good instead!
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How to Redo an Old Task Force

Rule #1: No Longer Than 90 Minutes

While I personally have the time to finish, let's say, Dr. Quarterfield during the days that Daylight Savings is in effect, I'm going to venture to suggest that most people prefer to be able to complete Task Forces in addition to their ordinary lives, rather than in place of them. I can't count the number of times I've asked someone, "Hey, want to run this Task Force with me?" and they respond "Sorry, I've got a few other things I want to take care of before I retire."

90 minutes is a pretty good number for that. It's not too long that people have to devote their entire weekend to it, but it's also not so short that it's pointless to participate in. Skilled players will nail it down in less than an hour, of course, but your average, capable team should never have to take more than 90 minutes to complete a Task Force.


Rule #2: Go Easy On The Defeat-Alls

Nothing says "we don't know how to extend activity on your end, so we're just going to pull something out of our uninspired keesters" quite like six or seven identical, consecutive defeat-alls. The older content--Task Forces in particular--are veritably chock full of these, and it not only isn't cute, it's downright irritating. That's right: your game, which you put tons of effort into and that people otherwise play to have fun, is downright irritating when it comes to these nonsensical strings of defeat-alls.

Don't get me wrong, though: I appreciate a good defeat-all now and then. Never on super-huge or outdoor maps, though, that's just a no-no. When used in moderation, they truly do add spice to an otherwise objective-driven Task Force, and give all members of the team something to do for a few minutes that contrasts with the usual boss and glowy hunts.

An example of how to not do it, since we're talking about it, is Citadel Task Force. "Go clear out that warehouse. Oh, didn't find anything? Then go clear out another. Still nothing? Man, better clear out one more just to be sure."


Rule #3: Arch-Villains Aren't Climactic Anymore

Back when we had to use these things called Single-Origin Enhancements, the occasional appearance of some purple-conning enemy called an Arch-villain was a big deal, and full teams of 8 weren't entirely certain they'd be able to topple them. Frankly, they used to be difficult and scary! But now they go down in like 20 seconds, and Task Forces made since then (not even Statesman/Recluse) have you fighting multiple Arch-villains simultaneously, so it can definitely be shown that the perception of what makes a climactic battle has changed over the years.

When it comes to the older Task Forces, putting just one such purple-conning enemy at the end of a string of unremarkable missions leaves players with essentially no feeling of achievement. There have actually been times when my team and I--get this--accidentally defeated the Arch-villain while mopping up the ordinary mobs in the room. Yeah, that's not climactic at all.

Take a look at Romulus: you fight him once in one mission and it's nothing. Then you fight him again in the next mission when he has a few more powers, but it's epic because he's backed up by his troops and the Nictus, and transfers the Essences into himself to resurrect three times during the final battle. Now THAT'S how you end a Task Force. And it doesn't stop there. Stuffing Recluse's inner circle into a power machine, then making yourself more powerful to take on the bags-of-HP that is Reichsman? Epic. Defeating the freaking Hamidon so you can steal its power and repel the Rikti invasion beneath their fallen ship and close their portal to their homeworld? Epic.

Beating up a bunch of Freakshow, then one more Freakshow that happens to con purple, then suddenly receiving Reward Merits? Not so epic. There needs to be more to it. Even if it is just an Arch-villain, make him really big or something, like Bat'zul. That battle was epic even though it wasn't any different mechanically from any other.


Rule #4: Give The Player Some Kind Of Tangible Reward

Player A: "Hey, check out this cool badge I got for defeating Clamor."
Player B: "Oh yeah? Look at this awesome coral-related temp power I got for defeating the Eye of the Leviathan."
Player A: "OMG!!!"

Task Forces where you actually get to take something away from them are Task Forces++ in my book. They give me motivation to keep running them even after I get the badge, and I'm never one to run things for the Merits (I had over 1,200 the other day before I realized how many I had and cashed them in).

But whether it be a Coral power, or a Synthetic Hamidon Enhancement, or Power of Recluse's Cronies or whatever, being able to look at something useful and saying "I got this for doing that Task Force" makes it waaaaaaaaay better.


Rule #5: For The Love Of All Things Good And Holy Stop Putting Missions In Thorn Isle

I think this one speaks for itself. There's little enough reason to go to Nerva Archipelago in the first place; you don't need to keep forcing people to avoid it like the plague.

This, which I will hereby refer to as the "Thorn Isle Rule," applies to practically any location that isn't specifically the endpoint of some epic quest. A good example of this kind of location is Lanaruu the Mad's Storm Palace. A bad example of this is Thorn Isle, where players are often sent because the story designers needed some Circle of Thornsy place and there aren't any others.

Anywhere that makes the player take a long hike all the way across the map, and even just for simple little missions, is bad bad bad bad BAD. Stop doing it. Don't do it again when you revise the older Task Forces. I'm talking about places like Fort Darwin, the northern region of Boomtown, The FAB, Tempest Quay, etc. Just... don't put mission doors there unless that's where the epic battle happens.
__________

So follow these few simple rules and the older Task Forces will become awesome new Task Forces just like that!


 

Posted

I found Citadel to be rather... meh. It's neither exciting or annoying. It's just flavorless, and there's a big bondage fetishist at the end. Bah.

Y'know what task force was really annoying and needs revamping? Synapse. Dear god... cloned map after cloned map of clockwork for hours and hours. AAAAGGHHH!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
You're lucky to have me here, Devs! As one who looks for the best in the game in every bit of content I play, I hereby provide you with a simple guide for revising older content to make it good instead!
__________

Take a look at Imperious: you fight him once in one mission and it's nothing. Then you fight him again in the next mission when he has a few more powers, but it's epic because he's backed up by his troops and the Nictus, and transfers the Essences into himself to resurrect three times during the final battle. Now THAT'S how you end a Task Force. And it doesn't stop there. Stuffing Recluse's inner circle into a power machine, then making yourself more powerful to take on the bags-of-HP that is Reichsman? Epic. Defeating the freaking Hamidon so you can steal its power and repel the Rikti invasion beneath their fallen ship and close their portal to their homeworld? Epic.
Pro Tip; Get enemy names right (It's Romulus)

Personally, however, I'd say;

#) Dont' for the love of all thats freaking sane, make anymore sodding Reichsman's! Even the blueside one is freaking rediculous to fight. The Redside one with the endless ambushes of cheaty hax death and enforced team-makeups or you FAIL....no. Just NO.

AVs should be interesting, yes. Rommy does that perfectly. Reichs doesn't. He's a big, fat, annoying cheaty sack of HP and ludicrous godmode attacks that is far more frustration than fun.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scythus View Post
I found Citadel to be rather... meh. It's neither exciting or annoying. It's just flavorless, and there's a big bondage fetishist at the end. Bah.

Y'know what task force was really annoying and needs revamping? Synapse. Dear god... cloned map after cloned map of clockwork for hours and hours. AAAAGGHHH!
I think most of the old TFs are just horrid. I have no idea how they got put into a game. When I first joined and played Synapse...I wanted to quit the game. Fortunately my good friend who got me into CoX said it gets better. Yikes....the old TFs really need fixing...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm View Post
I hope you are adding something to redside to balance the time spent focusing on the CTF.
I'm so glad to hear it that I almost don't care. Citadel is the worst TF in the entire two sides of the game, with Synapse a close second. Although I have recently been reminded of how much I loathe numina.... All of those old TFs need a quick trip to the scrapheap, and it could happen yesterday for all of me.

One thing about redside SFs is that they're all so much better than these clunky old repetitive blueside warhorses, they don't need a revamp.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Pro Tip; Get enemy names right (It's Romulus)
Pro Tip: I fixed it before you made that post. (-:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence View Post
Citadel is the worst TF in the entire two sides of the game, with Synapse a close second.
Quarterfield FTW. The last of the twenty-two missions is a defeat-all in Oranbega versus Rularuu. It doesn't even treat you with an AV!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy_Amp View Post
What really bugs me TF wise? For a level 35+ TF, Numi makes little to no sense whatsoever. Let's reward characters level 35+ for taking on level 1-20 mobs. Repeatedly. Let's have zone events happen so those hunts get delayed. A level 35+ TF should feel epic on some level and Numi completely lacks that. What's epic and challenging about hunting down things that are -15, or worse to you? Only the final mission really offers something of noteworthiness. A quick and dirty fix would be have the team do missions against those mobs and have the team exempted down to the mob's level and let them work their way back up to the TF's level requirements towards the end. Citadel is kind of annoying. Numi is just badly done and I think currently the worst built TF we have. Thinks for a second...outside of the Shard TFs.
Keep in mind, Numina was, at one time, the highest level TF you could do. I assume the idea behind the huntfest was to say 'look how far you've come'. I used to think of it as a fun concept that was just poorly implemented.

However, since zone events have come along, that portion of the TF has gone from mildly interesting but kinda tedious logistical challenge to completely annoying stall out of the TF.

For this reason, I think Numina is probably the most in need of a revamp, at least as far as the Phalanx stuff goes. While Citadel might win on being the most boring overall, Numina's also got a healthy bit of snooze and, on top of that, shows its age much, much more (Citadel has been tweaked at least once already).


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Posted

Citadel could be revamped to take into account the return of the 5th Column, so they could use the Council-5th Column conflict as part of the storyline.


@Golden Girl

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
Citadel could be revamped to take into account the return of the 5th Column, so they could use the Council-5th Column conflict as part of the storyline.
Great suggestion.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Pro Tip; Get enemy names right (It's Romulus)

Personally, however, I'd say;

#) Dont' for the love of all thats freaking sane, make anymore sodding Reichsman's! Even the blueside one is freaking rediculous to fight. The Redside one with the endless ambushes of cheaty hax death and enforced team-makeups or you FAIL....no. Just NO.

AVs should be interesting, yes. Rommy does that perfectly. Reichs doesn't. He's a big, fat, annoying cheaty sack of HP and ludicrous godmode attacks that is far more frustration than fun.
Funny, that's my favorite AV fight in the game.


"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJazMan View Post
I think most of the old TFs are just horrid. I have no idea how they got put into a game.
The game was much simpler back in the day. It's evolved a lot since then, and the bar's been raised quite a bit. At the outset, I think Positron was the only TF that was truly and widely loathed.

While the uniformity of Synapse was a detraction even back then, it still offered the following novelties:

- A unique and cool-looking end map.
- An AV that was, at one time, one of the more challenging opponents you could face.
- The Babbage ambush.

As the Phalanx TFs go, I think it's weathered the passing of the years better than a couple of the others. But yah, even so, it still falls way short of today's standards.

My own priority list would be:

- Positron (done, and I love the revamp)
- Numina
- Citadel
- Synapse
- Sister Psyche
- Manticore


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Posted

ALL of the old Task Forces are desperately in need of a revamp. What they did with Posi was great. They need to continue the trend. Make the old TFC ones more like Apex, with interesting end fights that are actually a challenge.

A Task Force should be a different type of content with unique, memorable aspects to it. They shouldn't be just a series of miscellaneous maps strung together by a plot that no one on a merit-hungry team of 8 is going to even bother taking the time to read. If we wanted something like that, we could just run papers or radios instead.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJazMan View Post
I think most of the old TFs are just horrid. I have no idea how they got put into a game. When I first joined and played Synapse...I wanted to quit the game. Fortunately my good friend who got me into CoX said it gets better. Yikes....the old TFs really need fixing...
The rationalizaion i have heard is that posi is an oldschool pnp gamer, to a pnp gamer the concept of multi-day encounters that you played with the same group made a bit more sense, but given coh's pug friendly atmosphere, long tfs soon were shown to be a poor fit for the game, synching up with 7 randon strangers for a 2-3 day set just wasn't realistic.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
Quarterfield FTW. The last of the twenty-two missions is a defeat-all in Oranbega versus Rularuu. It doesn't even treat you with an AV!
I will admit that Quarterfeld is a really, really bad TF and I refuse to run it again until its looked-at by a development team set on revamping it. However I think Cit is actually worse for the following reasons:

*Quarterfeld is actually [I think] a level 50 TF, so at least you have the chance to get some shards.

*You're not exemped down, so the rewards/cash are/is better.

*Cit takes place - all of it, as I recall - on that &%$!! underground Council fish-farm map with its undulating floor and general claustrophobia-inducing cramped hallways. I hate that map worse than any other I can think of, including the CoT dougnut-cave one. At least Synapse takes place in a bunch of warehouses where you have room to move!


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence View Post
on that &%$!! underground Council fish-farm map
I call it the Nazi bath house.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence View Post
*Quarterfeld is actually [I think] a level 50 TF, so at least you have the chance to get some shards.

*You're not exemped down, so the rewards/cash are/is better.
Joke's on you, I guess. It's not a level 50 Task Force. With the exception of not having to lose all your abilities just to play it, there's virtually no positive aspect to it at all.

And when you beat it?

"That's it. It's done. Great work, Task Force Name. You saved the day and who knows how much more."

Thanks, Quarterfield. Way to wrap it up. I really feel great for helping you out with this.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
When it comes to the older Task Forces, putting just one such purple-conning enemy at the end of a string of unremarkable missions leaves players with essentially no feeling of achievement. There have actually been times when my team and I--get this--accidentally defeated the Arch-villain while mopping up the ordinary mobs in the room. Yeah, that's not climactic at all.
*** Citadel Task Force Spoilers ***

Yea, but at the end of Citadel, the guy has a CANNON ARM! I mean, seriously, what are we supposed to do against that? It's a freakin' CANNON ARM! I've lost track of the number of times I was in a Citadel and we get to the end and the whole team just goes "omg look at that CANNON ARM! WTF HAX!" and then everyone just quits. His right arm is completely imbalanced with his left arm (literally).

One time, after everyone else quit I walked up and brawled him just to see what would happen. And then he used it as a club on my forehead! He's such a basadd, he doesn't even need to shoot the thing at me. He gave me boot to head with a CANNON ARM! I immediately pulled the plug on my PC just to avoid seeing what would happen next. It still gives me nightmares just thinking about it.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm View Post
I hope you are adding something to redside to balance the time spent focusing on the CTF.
It came in I18. It was called "going rogue".


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Posted

Let's face it they all need the Posi facelift . Once the weekly TF for shards runs it course , will there be any reason to run these ? Unless you have toons that don't have he badges or need the low merits that bad for some of these , I don't see the point but what do I know


 

Posted

I actually enjoy Citadel. But if they revamp it to be as good as Hess, then I'll be happy.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPerfect View Post
Joke's on you, I guess. It's not a level 50 Task Force. With the exception of not having to lose all your abilities just to play it, there's virtually no positive aspect to it at all.

And when you beat it?

"That's it. It's done. Great work, Task Force Name. You saved the day and who knows how much more."

Thanks, Quarterfield. Way to wrap it up. I really feel great for helping you out with this.
Sometimes being a hero is a thankless job.

That said, glad to see Citadel getting a revamp (but I guess I missed this announcement, where was it announced?)

Synapse I wish got the revamp first myself. Synapse is more...gah! Citadelis just...well bland and boring, but at least it doesn't drag on and on.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaFactor View Post
Let's face it they all need the Posi facelift . Once the weekly TF for shards runs it course , will there be any reason to run these ? Unless you have toons that don't have he badges or need the low merits that bad for some of these , I don't see the point but what do I know
XP and merits!


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