PAX EAST coh live panel feed
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2011-03-12 08:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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That's fine. But telling the story how you want to tell it isn't exactly the story they want to tell.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
They could finish it NOW. The BAF, Lambda sector, some crap with Anti-Matter's reactor, those are filler. Storywise, they're incidental strikes added in so they can stretch out the story for a few more issues. If i18 was our intro to Praetoria, and i19 was the beginning of their invasion, i20 should be us taking the fight to them in a major way, not just stopping some lamebrained mindwashed prisoner plan, and in i21 we should be taking down Tyrant. Meanwhile, people not involved in the Incarnate storyline, like, I dunno, level 20-40 people, should be dealing with all the other stuff that hasn't gone away just because an evil alternate Statesman decided to take over the multiverse.
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EDIT:
More specifically filler is there to set things up the way they want to set it up. They wanted Praetoria from the beginning to be an epic storyline - and epic journey and an epic fight. That you don't find it epic is fine - not everyone will. But cutting out the filler so that they can tell another epic storyline that you want to read is kind of selfish. Especially when there are people like me who actually kind of like them setting up an epic and existential threat - would I have been happier if that threat had been Rularru? No doubt. But just because that threat isn't what I wanted originally doesn't mean I can't appreciate how they're setting up the story they're telling.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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No, it's pretty obvious they're in love with their evil goatee universe and will stretch it out as long as possible, safe in the knowledge that most people don't care what they're fighting or how long they have to keep fighting the same guys over and over as long as they get their shinies.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
That's fine. But telling the story how you want to tell it isn't exactly the story they want to tell.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Am I the only one worried that more servers to choose from is only going to spread the population out even thinner?
Or in other words...
Cross-server teaming please!!!
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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Show me where I said it's "easy." You even quoted the post. You won't find that word or any synonym in it.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
You're right. Revamping an entire zone is easy. When you add two more, 4 Task Forces, Geometry that's not good for all travel powers, it gets even easier!!!! Add in enemies that most consider some of the hardest in the game, and it gets even easier!!!!
Wow, you mean all you have to do is add content!!!! WOW. Seriously. It's a big damn undertaking. |
Now, would you like to cure your CRI issue and pay attention?
It seems every time this is brought up, the devs point to Faultline as "We have to do THAT to the shard! It's a lot of woooooooork!" At which point I want to drop something heavy on them.
The zone doesn't need to be revamped. The art assets don't need to be revamped. There are contacts in zone right now, in all the zones, that are perfectly capable of actually having a purpose besides "um... go beat stuff up in caves to get inspirations."
What the zones NEED is content. SOMETHING TO FRACKING DO besides the horrific task forces that have had a bad name *since introduction.* The zone has needed work for YEARS - and with incarnate powers, well, guess what. Perfect damn target for those that don't want to deal with Cole and his dancing girls taking over the multiverse (which is a lousy storyline to begin with, primarily because of the whole "The well is nuts!" angle. Really. Was someone drunk when they added that in?) Godlike powers to take down a literal dimension-eating god. Want to get the Well's notice? This should damn well do it. And it can be done without relegating you to "You, as one of 755 Incarnates needed for this trial..."
Then again, that would require some decent writing, which has been very spotty the last few issues. Some good stuff, some VEAT-like utter crap.
Easy? It takes work. But it is easier than this dev team seems to like painting it. WW's proud of her faultline revamp, and properly so - but she and the rest of the team have to get it out of their freaking heads that EVERY zone that needs a revamp needs all that same stuff that Faultline did. DA doesn't. Crey's doesn't. The Shard doesn't. (Hell, I'd worry that if they got into the Shard, it'd do what the Shard instances and the Rikti portal room do and start having bits disappear for no good reason.)
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You know, I'm really $%#ing tired of people saying what most people think. You don't know. I don't know. You can say what you assume, but considering the number of people that avoid certain mobs in this game because they're too hard, and the number of people that come here on the forums and talk about writing stories and RPing, and the number of players on Virtue that will spend hours doing stuff for the fun of it that has absolutely no effect on leveling whatsoever, can we come to an agreement not to speak for people that you don't know?|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
No, it's pretty obvious they're in love with their evil goatee universe and will stretch it out as long as possible, safe in the knowledge that most people don't care what they're fighting or how long they have to keep fighting the same guys over and over as long as they get their shinies.
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Becuase it only does one of two things: Sets you up to be a morally superior martyr, or sets you up with a silent unspeaking majority who believe only the things you say they believe.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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That is the thing I would LOVE to happen. I have so many toons that would see a lot more love if I could just play them with my friends who are on different servers.
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Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
Am I the only one worried that more servers to choose from is only going to spread the population out even thinner?
Or in other words... Cross-server teaming please!!! |
My COX Fanfiction:
Blue's Assembled Story Links
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Show me where I said it's "easy." You even quoted the post. You won't find that word or any synonym in it.
Now, would you like to cure your CRI issue and pay attention? It seems every time this is brought up, the devs point to Faultline as "We have to do THAT to the shard! It's a lot of woooooooork!" At which point I want to drop something heavy on them. The zone doesn't need to be revamped. The art assets don't need to be revamped. There are contacts in zone right now, in all the zones, that are perfectly capable of actually having a purpose besides "um... go beat stuff up in caves to get inspirations." What the zones NEED is content. SOMETHING TO FRACKING DO besides the horrific task forces that have had a bad name *since introduction.* The zone has needed work for YEARS - and with incarnate powers, well, guess what. Perfect damn target for those that don't want to deal with Cole and his dancing girls taking over the multiverse (which is a lousy storyline to begin with, primarily because of the whole "The well is nuts!" angle. Really. Was someone drunk when they added that in?) Godlike powers to take down a literal dimension-eating god. Want to get the Well's notice? This should damn well do it. And it can be done without relegating you to "You, as one of 755 Incarnates needed for this trial..." Then again, that would require some decent writing, which has been very spotty the last few issues. Some good stuff, some VEAT-like utter crap. Easy? It takes work. But it is easier than this dev team seems to like painting it. WW's proud of her faultline revamp, and properly so - but she and the rest of the team have to get it out of their freaking heads that EVERY zone that needs a revamp needs all that same stuff that Faultline did. DA doesn't. Crey's doesn't. The Shard doesn't. (Hell, I'd worry that if they got into the Shard, it'd do what the Shard instances and the Rikti portal room do and start having bits disappear for no good reason.) |
You said, and I quote:
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Shadow shard a "big undertaking" - no, it isn't. It's a large, empty set of zones. Here's a suggestion - practice looking up backstory and lore to put some GOOD content in Dark Astoria, then do the same with the Shard. You don't have to redo the zone. Just PUT SOME DAMN CONTENT IN IT (and update the old, week-long task forces so they're not such a PITA.)
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"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
Aye, I rolled up all my Praetorians on Liberty because I needed an emptier server with my old computer.
Now that I have a new one though I've been slowly moving them to my home servers.
Maestro Mavius - Infinity
Capt. Biohazrd - PCSAR
Talsor Tech - Talsorian Guard
Keep Calm & Chive On!
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The worst part is Praetoria is a massive black hole that sucks everything else in and now runs over all the other story threads like a fungus:|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
"Praetorian story is too good to leave behind" - no, it isn't. Besides, other stories have been "left behind" for a while.
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Apex came back. Something people have been asking for years! And he's got his own TF? Awesome!
Are we helping him find the next War Witch? Revenging against the 5th Column/Requiem? Nope. He's just dispatching us against the Praetorians and his TF has nothing to do with him, his storyline or the characters he was in the comic run with.
SPOILERS:
"The Sky Is Falling" TF in i20? The title would imply it's the Sky Raider's big denouement; why they're not present in the very high levels. Instead they take a backseat almost immediately and don't really show up past the first mission.
Personally, I'm sick of Praetoria because it's been forced on us. 20 levels of Going Rogue didn't make them a credible 'cosmic threat' in my eyes, no amount last second tacked on "Well of BS" flavor text will. In the first place, the 'pay no attention to the giant retcon behind the curtain' stance the devs took in sweeping 'old Praetoria' under the rug left a bad taste in my mouth and still has so many logic flaws; it's a really poor bit of development in respect to most of the story and lore in this game.
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Generally, a threat to the multiverse makes people stop doing what they were doing, and try and stop it |
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Meanwhile, people not involved in the Incarnate storyline, like, I dunno, level 20-40 people, should be dealing with all the other stuff that hasn't gone away just because an evil alternate Statesman decided to take over the multiverse.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
You know, I'm really $%#ing tired of people saying what most people think. You don't know. I don't know. You can say what you assume, but considering the number of people that avoid certain mobs in this game because they're too hard, and the number of people that come here on the forums and talk about writing stories and RPing, and the number of players on Virtue that will spend hours doing stuff for the fun of it that has absolutely no effect on leveling whatsoever, can we come to an agreement not to speak for people that you don't know?
Becuase it only does one of two things: Sets you up to be a morally superior martyr, or sets you up with a silent unspeaking majority who believe only the things you say they believe. |
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Personally, I'm sick of Praetoria because it's been forced on us. 20 levels of Going Rogue didn't make them a credible 'cosmic threat' in my eyes, no amount last second tacked on "Well of BS" flavor text will. In the first place, the 'pay no attention to the giant retcon behind the curtain' stance the devs took in sweeping 'old Praetoria' under the rug left a bad taste in my mouth and still has so many logic flaws; it's a really poor bit of development in respect to most of the story and lore in this game.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Generally, a threat to the multiverse makes people stop doing what they were doing, and try and stop it
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Theres a multiverse threat?! oh come on you stupid 60 second microwave burger! Come on!
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I'm sure the developers remember the casual theme. However, the developers have also been clear that the Incarnate Content is not for the Casual Theme.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
As for the rest... lots of me shaking my head.
"Bring a stealth member..." Great. So now we're planning stuff around "must have" powers? Or even "Strongly suggested" powers? Really guys? Remember the "Casual" theme? Or is someone drinking the "pity slot" nonsense? |
The developers have been very explicit that incarnate content is going to be harder, and not just every P.U.G. that gets together will be able to do it.
If the developers had said this in regards to sub or regular level 50 content, I'd agree with you. But since this is for Incarnate Content... well... those ground rules... they be changed.
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| "street clothes not very heroic" - so what? We have some anyway, and more are appreciated. How about *not* limiting things? |
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| "Praetorian story is too good to leave behind" - no, it isn't. Besides, other stories have been "left behind" for a while. |
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| "Personal lairs impacting performance" - uh huh. I find this a bit hard to believe. |
Apparently the term Personal Lair was being used to describe something else OTHER than a Supergroup Base meant for one person. Rather, it seems to be a reference to this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?p=3446599
Where I THINK Nate was going with the response was that creating a personal lair for every single player would indeed be... well... it definitely would require a large amount of resources.
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| Shadow shard a "big undertaking" - no, it isn't. It's a large, empty set of zones. |
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| Here's a suggestion - practice looking up backstory and lore to put some GOOD content in Dark Astoria, then do the same with the Shard. You don't have to redo the zone. Just PUT SOME DAMN CONTENT IN IT (and update the old, week-long task forces so they're not such a PITA.) |
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| "Epic ATs are hard to maintain" - WTH does this even mean? Or did someone's brain explode trying to write the crap arcs VEATs got? |
The result is that the E.A.T.'s have some awkward power combinations. For example, Kheldians get shields in their human forms so they can survive in Melee range... but no Mez protection... soo... what was the point of the shields?
Arachnos can get high defenses, and with IO's and pool powers can easily soft-cap to regular content. However, Arachnos get no defense debuff protection... so um... what happens when they encounter an enemy with increased accuracy and a defense debuff whose job is to knock out IO based soft-caps on non-defensive armor players?
I think that balancing awkwardness is what Nate meant by maintenance. The Epic Archtypes, by and large, don't fit into traditional team roles as effectively as archtypes built for those roles.
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Originally Posted by somebody else
you mad?
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Am I mad at Aura and Eva for their We're martyrs for the cause of Too Much Praetoria in the game thing that they are doing? No.
They have a right to their opinion.
That does not grant them the right to say things like:
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| That in and of itself is an unprecedented focus on a single enemy and a single storyline, leaving people who don't care for that enemy or storyline out in the cold for a very very long time, with no end in sight. |
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That's fair. I would have really liked to have seen them wrap up the sky raiders in a good way, and I would really like them to look at War Witch's story.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
The worst part is Praetoria is a massive black hole that sucks everything else in and now runs over all the other story threads like a fungus:
Apex came back. Something people have been asking for years! And he's got his own TF? Awesome! Are we helping him find the next War Witch? Revenging against the 5th Column/Requiem? Nope. He's just dispatching us against the Praetorians and his TF has nothing to do with him, his storyline or the characters he was in the comic run with. SPOILERS: "The Sky Is Falling" TF in i20? The title would imply it's the Sky Raider's big denouement; why they're not present in the very high levels. Instead they take a backseat almost immediately and don't really show up past the first mission. Personally, I'm sick of Praetoria because it's been forced on us. 20 levels of Going Rogue didn't make them a credible 'cosmic threat' in my eyes, no amount last second tacked on "Well of BS" flavor text will. In the first place, the 'pay no attention to the giant retcon behind the curtain' stance the devs took in sweeping 'old Praetoria' under the rug left a bad taste in my mouth and still has so many logic flaws; it's a really poor bit of development in respect to most of the story and lore in this game. . |
I'm not the hugest fan of them subverting the earlier levels to the Praetorian storyline, but I understand why they're doing it - but somehow lost in all this is that it's my opinion that we're kind of viewing some of the old Praetorian stuff with rose colored glasses. I....wasn't impressed with the old storyline. I mean it really was just a generic goatee universe. The world they set up is much richer and much deeper - even if it doesn't interest everyone. I understand that there are plot holes, and making the old arcs cannon muddles things up a little bit (and I kind of understand why they kept those as well, but I don't like that they did). I would like to see an end to the plot holes, I would like to see the entrance into Paragon and the RI from Praetoria be a smoother transition. But overall, I think the earlier stuff lacked character. It didn't feel like another world - it felt like Primal but with different set dressing. The new Praetoria feels like another world with a more fleshed out history and a deeper look into the morality there.
Which is the one thing that I wish was more delved into with the level 50 stuff - there's not a whole lot of moral choice stuff going on - and I don't just mean "Should you side with Cole or not". I mean I would have really like the BAF to be a real moral conundrum; I would really have liked it to be something like - we're in a fight for our lives and we have to do this horrible thing to the Praetorians to survive because otherwise they're going to overrun us. It not only would have been an awesome way to integrate a more villainous tone to Co-Op content, but it would have opened up some of the moral issues that come up with the earlier stuff.
Ah well. there's always the later stuff.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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And if you'd bother to actually pay attention to the rest of the post, you'd see just why I said that, the assumptions they start with (and I CAN say that, because they've USED the faultline rework, the art assets, reworking the zone, etc. as their excuse re: the Shard) being what they use for "It'll take too much work" for everything else. |
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
You just said right there "No it isn't."
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Again, nowhere in there did I say "It's easy." Hell, you seemed to ignore this - here, let me highlight it:
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| Easy? It takes work. But it is easier than this dev team seems to like painting it. |
If the Shard needed the full Faultline treatment, I'd agree that it was an incredible amount of work to do - Faultline had no contacts, no anything, was singularly unfriendly *especially* at the levels people might go in there, had 1/3 or so of the zone completely inaccessible - it needed a full revamp, from story to artwork to geometry.
However, it does *not* need that. The shard needs to have its existing contacts be given reason to exist. Yet, from prior (think it was Herocon) statements, when you mention a zone revamp, that's *exactly* what they point at as "how much work it would take."
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| When they're talking about revisiting the Shard, they're talking about making the whole thing more attractive to visitors. Because right now if they added a lot more content? It would still be empty. Because it's not attractive to anyone who uses SS or SJ, and it's not all that friendly a zone anyway. And it's huge. Seriously, have you ever seen anyone traveling the length of IP for fun? |
And do you know why nobody goes in there? THERE'S NOT A DAMN THING TO DO, aside from the ridiculously long TFs. If it's empty because it's "not friendly to SJ or SS," then what's your excuse for Dark Astoria or Crey's Folly? They're JUST as dead.
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How does saying: The shadow shard is a big undertaking - No it isn't, it takes work!" make any kind of sense? You can say that, and it still remains a statement that is not consistent.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
And if you'd bother to actually pay attention to the rest of the post, you'd see just why I said that, the assumptions they start with (and I CAN say that, because they've USED the faultline rework, the art assets, reworking the zone, etc. as their excuse re: the Shard) being what they use for "It'll take too much work" for everything else.
Again, nowhere in there did I say "It's easy." Hell, you seemed to ignore this - here, let me highlight it: Do you understand now why I say "No, it isn't" to their portrayal of the effort it would take? |
But you know what? Whatever. If we both agree that it takes work then fine. But even with a jetpack, which is by the way a slow way of travel, it takes a really long time to get anywhere in the shard. If they add content I want them to do more than add content - I want them to make it usable content. As it stands right now, it's not all that accessible, even with the Jetpack vendors (which I do use...and I do go to the shard. I like the shard. But it has a lot of limitations to being a usable, and accessible, zone.
EDIT:
There's no point in adding stuff to the shard unless they're going to do it right. Which WOULD be a huge, and not easy, undertaking.
I was more annoyed by your mostly dismissive tone about how much of an undertaking it would be. But whatever - we appear to be closer in conclusions than it would first appear, we just disagree on the amount of work it would take tot make the new content attractive for people who haven't been in the shard before.
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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I edited for clarification. Go back and re-read.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
How does saying: The shadow shard is a big undertaking - No it isn't, it takes work!" make any kind of sense?
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Yeah, I edited too. Like I said, we appear to be close in what we want in the shard, just not necessarily how we want it.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I edited for clarification. Go back and re-read.
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"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
My initial impression on what has been posted recently in this thread brings up a point no one has really touched upon. That is, it is said that, a separate dev team has been split off to work on Praetoria, many times by many posters on this board, and the other half is working on something else. But where is the evidence that is the case? Based on what we know, which has been made public to us thus far, it appears the entire dev team is working on Praetoria.
I can understand the frustration with some players that feel Praetoria is not only over saturated at this point, but it is devoting the majority of dev time too. I think it is that combination, not really either one soley, that, is driving such polarization amongst the players.
Anyways, I look forward to what Praetoria brings, and as for stealth, I think, that, unless they are planning a temporary power that can be purchased cheaply from the Market, it would be opening too many cans of worms. It is not like the first time that specific powers have been sought out for a TF. But it would definitely be the first time that the dev team would intentionally design an encounter needing a specific power that is very iffy at best.
Costume pieces being released alongside the release of new enemy groups is a nice touch I must say, and I approve with two thumbs up.
Revamping zones isn't time consuming if done right. As it has been pointed out, graphics revamp isn't necessary with the introduction of Ultra mode. It is the content to fill this new found lush graphics that will mesh everything together coherently to create a smooth gaming experience for vets, and new players a like.
I think the key is that the devs need to embrace options, and diversity, as this narrowed path can only lead to more frustration IMVHO.
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I think the two teams were split off into end game content, and non-endgame content. So it's not just "preatoria" and "non-praetoria".
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
My initial impression on what has been posted recently in this thread brings up a point no one has really touched upon. That is, it is said that, a separate dev team has been split off to work on Praetoria, many times by many posters on this board, and the other half is working on something else. But where is the evidence that is the case? Based on what we know, which has been made public to us thus far, it appears the entire dev team is working on Praetoria.
I can understand the frustration with some players that feel Praetoria is not only over saturated at this point, but it is devoting the majority of dev time too. I think it is that combination, not really either one soley, that, is driving such polarization amongst the players. Anyways, I look forward to what Praetoria brings, and as for stealth, I think, that, unless they are planning a temporary power that can be purchased cheaply from the Market, it would be opening too many cans of worms. It is not like the first time that specific powers have been sought out for a TF. But it would definitely be the first time that the dev team would intentionally design an encounter needing a specific power that is very iffy at best. Costume pieces being released alongside the release of new enemy groups is a nice touch I must say, and I approve with two thumbs up. Revamping zones isn't time consuming if done right. As it has been pointed out, graphics revamp isn't necessary with the introduction of Ultra mode. It is the content to fill this new found lush graphics that will mesh everything together coherently to create a smooth gaming experience for vets, and new players a like. I think the key is that the devs need to embrace options, and diversity, as this narrowed path can only lead to more frustration IMVHO. |
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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There's not a separate Praetorian dev team - there' just Positron's elite secret elite ninja elite endgame content elite team - so while they're working on the 2 new Trials in I20, the others are doing, say, the 2 new TFs, for example, as well as QoL stuff and future non-endgame content for upcoming Issues.
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Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
My initial impression on what has been posted recently in this thread brings up a point no one has really touched upon. That is, it is said that, a separate dev team has been split off to work on Praetoria, many times by many posters on this board, and the other half is working on something else. But where is the evidence that is the case? Based on what we know, which has been made public to us thus far, it appears the entire dev team is working on Praetoria.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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OK. Let's start here. What, to YOU, do they need to do?|
Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
There's no point in adding stuff to the shard unless they're going to do it right. Which WOULD be a huge, and not easy, undertaking. |
They currently have:
- Gravity well paths marked.
- Jetpack vendors for the vertically challenged.
- A more-than-fair number of contacts just standing around.
- A portal system in place to mole points, etc. as well as the other zones.
- A pretty decent variety of enemies.
- Good backdrop/backstory to investigate further.
In-game, we have so many different teleporters and travel options it's dizzying. So, no, I don't see getting around as a big issue. I don't think we'll end up agreeing on this. (I do see needing beacons added potentially.)
I'd say that's a fairly solid place to start, and eliminates a LOT of potential work.
What does not need doing:
- Artwork revamp. The shard's already visually stunning.
- Mob revamp. They're appropriately difficult for those level ranges, with a fairly good variety of powers/resists. And IIRC there are even art assets for aspects of Ruularu that we haven't seen.
- Longbow does not need to be introduced. Neither does Arachnos. Unfortunately, both have been established as having presences there via instanced missions. Not seeing them would be nice.
- Zone geometry revamp. Yes, this took a lot of work in Faultline. Doesn't need one at all in the Shard.
- Interiors... there are already a fair number of maps barely/not used. (I'll throw this as a "maybe" for doing/not doing.)
What DOES need doing:
- Task force revamp. Smaller start size, shortening the mission list. Make them more attractive to run and more accessible.
- Mission arc creation. What we have now is, essentially, a group of proto-newspaper missions that pay off with inspirations. REAL arcs that go into the lore and have you dealing with (positively or negatively) Ruularu's aspects. While Ruularu himself is likely "too big" to deal with (as an entity in game,) there's still much that could be done.
- Investigation into Darrin Wade's activities. Yet another plotline left dangling.
What we mostly need is *writing time.* We have for years, for this and the other zones mentioned - which is part of what I find so *irritating* with this sudden focus on Praetoria and the out-of-left-field "The well is nuts!" bit.
Priority list that every development company follows (from highest to lowest):
1. New content
2. Fixing things that are broken and unplayable
3. Fixing things that are broken, but playable
4. Fixing things that aren't broken, but need some more fleshing out; updating legacy content to mesh better with newer content
5. Wish list content (i.e. "Wouldn't it be nice if...)
In this game, new content is gonna focus on Praetoria and Incarnates for the most part because those are the newest items. They will spend the majority of their resources on this, until they're finished. Since we're getting it piecemeal over several Issues, it's gonna take a while. Then they'll try to get to the other things on the priority list. Sometimes they have time and a plan to fix some things, or give us QoL features, sometimes they don't. If you're not getting the content you want, chances are your wishes are further down the priority list, and they'll get to them as they can, if there's nothing new that takes up their time. That's the way all games are made.
As others have pointed out, focusing on one area for an Issue or two has happened in the past. Villains got several Issues of attention when they came out, which is no different than Praetoria. Inventions, the AE system, and Ouroborus were all Issues that focused on game systems more than the content that utilizes them. In these examples, there were a few bones thrown out to satiate those that didn't care for the content being focused on, just as there will be things in the coming Issues that get thrown in that don't have much to do with the Issue's theme. Don't see anything you like? Wait an Issue and keep playing the same way you've been up to now or stop your sub and renew it when you see things you do like. Complain about it, as long as you have something more constructive to add to the discussion than "This sux!" or "Devs are ignoring (insert group)."
If you're really that bored with the content up to now, and you don't see anything in the horizon to make you change your outlook, why are you still giving NCSoft your money? I'd rather play with less people if the ones that stay are generally happy** with the game they're paying for, than play with those people plus a group that has nothing but negative to say about anything that's coming down the road, and have been repeating their displeasure for months and sometimes years.
**note: "Generally Happy" doesn't mean they don't have problems with the game. It also doesn't mean they don't voice their displeasure. What it does mean is that those people know how to explain their point with examples, and with better ideas if they're slamming the ones the Devs have come up with. Positron, et al will listen to people that have ideas, not just vitriol. If you don't give them something better, why would they change?
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
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I would like to see a revamping of the zone. Yes, the shard is gorgeous, and yes it's huge, but it's also incredibly uniform. While it's gorgeous, one small island looks much the same as another small island so even though you're traveling it doesn't feel like you are. It's like staring out at Ohio and realizing you're looking at corn. And you've been looking at corn for the last 300 miles. They're big and they're gorgeous, but it's also really easy to fall into the idea that they're also really boring and not just because it lacks content. So yeah, a revamping of the zone - that's what I mean by accessible to the playerbase.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
OK. Let's start here. What, to YOU, do they need to do?
They currently have: - Gravity well paths marked. - Jetpack vendors for the vertically challenged. - A more-than-fair number of contacts just standing around. - A portal system in place to mole points, etc. as well as the other zones. - A pretty decent variety of enemies. - Good backdrop/backstory to investigate further. In-game, we have so many different teleporters and travel options it's dizzying. So, no, I don't see getting around as a big issue. I don't think we'll end up agreeing on this. (I do see needing beacons added potentially.) I'd say that's a fairly solid place to start, and eliminates a LOT of potential work. What does not need doing: - Artwork revamp. The shard's already visually stunning. - Mob revamp. They're appropriately difficult for those level ranges, with a fairly good variety of powers/resists. And IIRC there are even art assets for aspects of Ruularu that we haven't seen. - Longbow does not need to be introduced. Neither does Arachnos. Unfortunately, both have been established as having presences there via instanced missions. Not seeing them would be nice. - Zone geometry revamp. Yes, this took a lot of work in Faultline. Doesn't need one at all in the Shard. - Interiors... there are already a fair number of maps barely/not used. (I'll throw this as a "maybe" for doing/not doing.) What DOES need doing: - Task force revamp. Smaller start size, shortening the mission list. Make them more attractive to run and more accessible. - Mission arc creation. What we have now is, essentially, a group of proto-newspaper missions that pay off with inspirations. REAL arcs that go into the lore and have you dealing with (positively or negatively) Ruularu's aspects. While Ruularu himself is likely "too big" to deal with (as an entity in game,) there's still much that could be done. - Investigation into Darrin Wade's activities. Yet another plotline left dangling. What we mostly need is *writing time.* We have for years, for this and the other zones mentioned - which is part of what I find so *irritating* with this sudden focus on Praetoria and the out-of-left-field "The well is nuts!" bit. |
Doesn't need a mob revamp, an art revamp or most of the other things you mentioned - I would like to see more interesting mission maps. I seriously hate all the caves not because they're caves, but because they're boring caves. I love the Leviathan cave in the villain SF I can't remember the name of (the one with Calystix), I love the crystal cave in Ice Mistral on the last map. I love the cave in Eden. But those are interesting. yet another cave map with no distinguishing features that look much the same as the rest of the caves in the game? Bleh.
It does need more content (Darrin Wade, a coherent Non-TF storyline, a revamp of the TF's, etc).
All of those things will take a really long time to accomplish.
"Be a beacon?"
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Quote:
Couldn't have put it better myself Bill. i20 looks like it's going to have little for me in it other than the server list merge, but as I said before, I can wait, I've got other things to do. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Reading through this -
Server list merge - Yay. Good. About time. Hey, you Euro-altaholics, guess what... more slots! As for the rest... lots of me shaking my head. "Bring a stealth member..." Great. So now we're planning stuff around "must have" powers? Or even "Strongly suggested" powers? Really guys? Remember the "Casual" theme? Or is someone drinking the "pity slot" nonsense? "street clothes not very heroic" - so what? We have some anyway, and more are appreciated. How about *not* limiting things? "Praetorian story is too good to leave behind" - no, it isn't. Besides, other stories have been "left behind" for a while. "Personal lairs impacting performance" - uh huh. I find this a bit hard to believe. Shadow shard a "big undertaking" - no, it isn't. It's a large, empty set of zones. Here's a suggestion - practice looking up backstory and lore to put some GOOD content in Dark Astoria, then do the same with the Shard. You don't have to redo the zone. Just PUT SOME DAMN CONTENT IN IT (and update the old, week-long task forces so they're not such a PITA.) "Epic ATs are hard to maintain" - WTH does this even mean? Or did someone's brain explode trying to write the crap arcs VEATs got? |
In answer to previous questions though, there are stories still left standing such as: Rularuu, Dark Astoria, the low level drugs ring, the low level magical artefact trafficking, Shiva, Ouroboros, The Council vs The Fifth Column, Kheldians, Cimerora... I could go on.
I have no problem with them expanding on Praetoria, I'm just disappointed that it can't be done while advancing the storyline in other areas. It's also a shame that the Incarnate system is so closely tied to this (in my opinion) lacklustre story. Hey ho.
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