Incarnates and Homogeneity

I don't have the attention span to worry about stuff that might happen in a year or two. I have enough trouble worrying about what's going to happen in the next 5 minutes.

Personally, apart from the Lore slot ( which I HATE with a passion and will not be slotting it with anything, I'll unlock it but I'll ignore the bugger as best I can, tying it in with Praetorians was freaking stupid and makes me want to smack Posi around the back of the head and go "what the hell man?!") I'm not too fussed.

Apart from Judgement and Lore, the other three slots are stuff that nobody is really going to notice which means I can easily handwave it away as other things if need be and continue to ignore the presence of the Well storyline.

Judgement, well it takes some fudging but you can easily get them to work and I can STILL ignore the Well storyline.

Lore is too much decidely tied in with the Well Storyline and thus gets thrown out the window, never to be used. I honestly don't care HOW powerful the pets are and that it would be essentially cutting of my nose to spite my face by losing out on a buff pet I want my one Incarnate to have sweet bugger all to do with a storyline that is getting stupider with every passing Issue and she believes the old Incarnate schtick anyway, she believes she is an Incarnate of Hercules (hence the +damage Alpha).

The Lore slot not only really can't be put into that storyline.

Now if they added in Battle Maiden's group to the selection then, well yeah, I can use that (the souls of fallen ancient warriors) but it's tech, tech, tech and mutant origin groups...which I can't use let alone want to.

Sorry got a bit rambling there.

Thanks for that post, Arcanaville, that's exactly the kind of response I was hoping to get from you!

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Where's the fun in that?

You might enjoy arguing with me, but arguing with you leads to madness and sweaty palms. Not that it matters, because I can't really disagree with your post at all.

But that doesn't mean we can't have a discussion!

The one thing I feel that is lacking is opportunity cost with respect to the slots themselves. The great thing about Patron and Epic pools is that if you don't feel like they fit you, you can just take more Primary/Secondary/Pool powers instead. With Incarnates, if you've got a character for whom you don't want one of the 4 elemental powers in Judgement, you have to just skip it. In the short run, that means filling other slots faster, which is great, and encourages diversity! In the long run, it means having one less power when all of your teammates have it, and they might be relying on you to have it.

But since it's too late to have the slots themselves require you to choose among them (like, if they'd had us choose 6 out of 10 or something), I'm honestly more interested in having more base options (especially for Lore) than deeper trees, though your ideas are interesting, and definitely provide a form of opportunity cost.

We'll see what happens.

I guess when certain level of power is achieved, Homogeneity just sorta creeps in.

Look at the Justice League. Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel (in the past)... All of them flying bricks - on the same team! Yes, they have some tricks that set them apart (especially Manhunter) but they're all essentially built from the same template. Same with Sentry, Gladiator, Hyperion, etc. from Marvel.

Even so, when Captain Marvel and Superman fought in Kingdom Come, it was still interesting. Their backgrounds and personalities, not their powers, was what made them different from each other.

So, my main is currently an SS/WP Brute. Wow...how original! Well, she is to me. It's an iconic powerset I wanted and wasn't going to not take just because so many others take it as well. But my background is my own, and I'd be willing to bet real money that no other Brute has exactly the same story.

These coming Incarnate Powers. Everyone of them I'll work in to my background, even Lore. Not worried that I'll be superficially powered like many others - That's already the case. My story is what differentiates me anyhow...

I have to agree with the pet thing. WIth the exception of my Bot/Traps MM they don't fit well.

But the Question is on Judgement. Will these powers have an "alternate animation" to work with weapons. Much like Johnny Blaze in the '90's had that shotgun imbued with Hellfire.

Just popping in with my two cents quickly (so, I have not yet read any replies):

I want to say right off the top that (as I've said in a thread I started about Power Customization for remaining power pools and such) Any Incarnate Powers and new Powers better be designed and implemented with Power Customization.

So, any visible powers the Incarnate system should absolutely have color customization.
caveat being with the Lore Pets customization when/if they develop the ability to customize Pets

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Originally Posted by Liquid How do you feel about the powers themselves based on the information that has been released so far, including in the sneak peaks and threads about them (here's a decent one, here's another, there are more), in terms of gameplay and how you feel about your characters having them (regardless of the lore)?

For me, everything is on a case by case basis. And I have not yet really looked into the leaks of what is to come (other than the general information of AoE and pets coming with Judgment and Lore).
So far, I don't have a problem with them... So long as they can be colored to our liking. Power Customization needs to be applied to all existing power pools and the Incarnate System and I am hoping they realize this and are getting that done to coincide with the release of those parts of the Incarnate System (and not afterward). This also has the benefit of escalating all the needed Power Customization UI and development into the Incarnate priority the team is set on.
My feelings will be negative if they are not customizable. Until/unless that happens, I feel good about what they have planned.

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Originally Posted by Liquid How would you feel about your characters if everyone else had a significant number of extremely effective and visible powers that are similar or identical to yours? (If you are choosing to skip these powers, please instead say how you would feel about everyone else having the same or similar powers)

I think that would be lame and a mistake. This game's customization is a major draw and they need to continue to work on that, otherwise you fall behind. Making those steps in the extreme of what this question asks would be a blunder, as far as my, and like-minded players, interests are concerned.
As great as this game may have been... I don't think I would have stayed if I came before Weapon Customization, Wings and several added elements of customization that were added in. That's the truth. And it is still a huge aspect to me and more-so since we got our color and animation customization. That trend needs to continue and be expanded upon, as far as I am concerned. (I've probably made that clear, hehe)

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Originally Posted by Liquid How do you feel about the lore concept that Incarnate powers are not really yours, but granted by/stolen from an entity that has been stated to be insane (in the issue 20 overview)? How do you feel about your fellow heroes/villains being given/stealing these powers by/from that entity? If you plan to ignore the lore for your characters, go ahead and say so, but give your opinion on it too if you have one, please.

I'm not big on sweeping origin aspects/backgrounds like that.
I would likely ignore it, as far as my own concepts go.
It may or may not be a terrible story, but it's certainly not one I would expect everyone to buy into for their own concepts.
Anyone who wants to be a snowflake, go right ahead. I have zero problems with it and basically laugh at anyone who talks about that being a bad thing.
Also, I'd expect an Issue 48, sometime down the road, where some devil-like character comes along and offers a story arc that ends up wiping that slate clean...

You walk a really thin line in trying to manage and create background stories for a universe designed to entertain thousands of character-creating customers. They have to recognize that their world is sometimes just the backdrop for their users' creativity.
However, they also have to provide content and stories of interest as well as cater to those who simply want the story brought to them.
It is certainly a difficult balancing act.
Options are the greatest option.

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Originally Posted by Liquid Do you believe that character diversity is an important part of this game in general? If so, please say why, and from the information you have so far from the sneak-peaks or the threads about them, what impact do you feel the Incarnate system will have on that diversity, and the game as a whole? If not, why not?

I think the rest of my answers speak pretty loudly on this.
It's greatly important (although, I can't lose myself and act like it was terrible before we had Power Customization).
I do believe that the element of diversity should be improved and pushed forward... Not taken backwards.
If there is color customization, if there are options that match just about any and every power type already in this game (Dark Miasma, Devices, Electricity, Energy, Fire, Guns, Gravity Control, Ice, Psy/Mental, etc.), if the options are well balanced and choices can freely be made based on concept/fun and not the game mechanics... Then I don't think this will negatively impact the game's diversity.

If they leave out power effects from the roster of choices, if they don't allow customization and if these powers are imbalanced... it's not going to be great.
Besides causing some balancing damages and whatnot, it could easily turn off the types of players that play for conceptual reasons, customization reasons and the like.
And, I tend to think that such players are the majority of City Of Heroes players... So, I'd think that'd be a bad thing.

Just my thoughts and opinions.
Thanks for the questionnaire!
Do I get a free pot holder?

The idea of making all Lore pets Praetorian mobs - I would describe it as "terrible". Which is a new word made up by combining "terrible" and "horrible". But this was just a sneak peak so there is still time to change this. And with much/most feedback asking for more generic/custom Lore pets, I have hope.

Also, yes to making new/incarnate powers customizable. At some future point power customization should cover all powers anyway. Better to add in at start than squeeze in later - that's what we learned from the main powerset customization, yes?

I haven't even been able to unlock Incarnate slots on any of my 50s. But they seem like a good idea to me, though the mentioned pets are the least appealing ability I've heard about.

Talking of magic in the game, I wonder if any future Incarnate stuff will shows us what happened to Mu and Oranbega on Praetorian Earth, and why there seems to be almost no magic anywhere in that world?
Like if Tyrant had outlawed it, you'd still expect it to show up in the ranks of the people fighting him - but the resistance and the Syndicate don't seem to have any - and if Tyrant had found a way to make all the maigíc in his world serve him, then you'd expect to see magic users in the ranks of the loyalists.

1. How do you become a god without becoming a Cosmic Tank-Mage?

2. Is "I hate Lore pets!" going to be the new tantrum that derails all Incarnate discussions like "I must have a solo-only path!"

Don't forget that Tyrant is also working with the Rikti, so there could be some Rikti Incarnate content too.

where does the Rikit and Tyrant are working together info come from?

The Apex TF - the Rikti and Hydra in the sewers are massing to help with the attack on Kings Row.