What do you like about the Current CoH PvP Experience
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2011-02-28 23:07 in Everything about PvP
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Well, its nice to know I'm only being mentioned specifically because ... I'm first in alphabetical order?|
Originally Posted by Phillygirl
Anyway I am sure he will come post for us to stay on topic as we are not Arcanaville, who's off topic comments seem to be allowed. Ours are probably a bit to close to the truth and are negative. It's convenient to use "stay on topic" when ever you want to but obviously only certain people are held to that. (this is not a poke at Arcanaville or her posts but rather at moderation when it's convenient to you)
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Also, I could have sworn my first post in the thread was about my experiences in zone PvP during CoV beta, and I can't find it now. So my one post that was precisely dead on topic seems to have been either deleted or somehow eaten by the forums. That's ironic.
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You can find out all you need to know about the current PvP situation and players feelings on it by reading through the PvP forums, these threads you're creating are mainly just getting peoples hopes up that something might be done.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I've no illusions that I'm going to be some sort of miracle worker with PvP. However I do know that if I want to accomplish anything for the PvP Community, I have to be persistent and knowledgeable about the subject. Hence, these conversations.
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See, I'm currently playing another recently released superhero-themed MMO. It has fast-paced combat which players are lapping up. The problem is the interface/input was designed for a console, which has left the PC version open to serious exploit as far as combo stringing and animation cancelling go. This is leaving people disillusioned as no matter how much they love that 'fast-paced combat', they cant win against the exploiters, so they're not re-subbing.
If you can get the pace and diversity (they also hate that controllers can't control and DPS > everything, for example) back which was all but destroyed by the I13 changes, you could grab those players that are looking for thier MMO/FPS hybrid fix.
The frustrating thing is that YOU HAD IT BEFORE I13! Why not do what everyone that matters wants and poke the powers that be with a stick til they revert the I13 changes.
It makes so much sense!!!
And by the way, this is coming from a player who was only ever an average PvPer. So you've got hardcore PvPers, casual PvPers and even non-PvPers telling you that these changes sucked! How much more do you need to know???
Stop talking to us, start talking to whoever can get this done, THEN come talk to us when you have a decent foundation to build a better PvP system on.
Luv & kisses... Psianide
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Well, its nice to know I'm only being mentioned specifically because ... I'm first in alphabetical order?
Also, I could have sworn my first post in the thread was about my experiences in zone PvP during CoV beta, and I can't find it now. So my one post that was precisely dead on topic seems to have been either deleted or somehow eaten by the forums. That's ironic. |
You definatly did post just an on topic one first which i can't imagine any reason for it's deletion. And no i singled out you cause you have a close relationship with the developers. I was making a point you where the obvious choice.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I do intend to come out to a few of these PvP nights. A few things have prevented me from spending much time in game, mostly having to do with relocating my family cross country (my house looks more like a box factory than a house currently). Give me some time and I will be out there, embarrassing myself against the best of you as I get curbstomped over and over again
 . For awhile at least *evil laugh*. |
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| I'm not worried about looking good, that's not what being a Community Manager is all about. We need to be visible within the Community so that we have a better understanding of those that we represent. |
Also if being visible to the community is important then why where the few cry outs from the base builders in these threads not heard. I see no discussion thread on the base building forums. You kinda sending a message there. Or is it cause a base building question wasn't asked during that zam interview.
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| I've no illusions that I'm going to be some sort of miracle worker with PvP. However I do know that if I want to accomplish anything for the PvP Community, I have to be persistent and knowledgeable about the subject. Hence, these conversations. |
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Less new and improved threads. Read the pre-existing threads.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Hence, these conversations.
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Originally Posted by Fury161
And by the way, this is coming from a player who was only ever an average PvPer. So you've got hardcore PvPers, casual PvPers and even non-PvPers telling you that these changes sucked! How much more do you need to know??? Stop talking to us, start talking to whoever can get this done, THEN come talk to us when you have a decent foundation to build a better PvP system on. |
Oh look yet *another* player who isn't a "hardcore" arena/test pvper, who hated I13 changes. Who also agrees with most of the PvP community.
I must be onto something here.....
MAYBE THE PLAYERS WERE RIGHT. *GASP*
As long as PvP balance changes don't affect the way the powers work in PvE, I don't give a damn about PvP.
If PvP changes fall into the "death spiral" of affecting PvE play and PvE balance, that's when I'll be leaving the game.
I do NOT want Issue 12 style PvP back if it means unifying PvE and PvP versions of powers. Also, those wanting the "old style" of PvP back seem to have forgotten the serious balance problems that previously existed. Namely, if you weren't a Night Widow, you were hosed in a fight.
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I was on Infinity last night since it's my main storage base and PvE server outside Pinnacle and Champion, and some casual PvP was going on in Arena.|
Originally Posted by CriticalKat
I can't fathom why but the reality of it is that there are LOTS of people who like i13 pvp. I highly doubt they would ever change it totally back. From a business standpoint it would be just as bad to take away i13pvp from the carebears as it was for them to take away i12pvp from the rest of us.
I think asking for an i12 button in the arena and maybe 1 zone to be i12 is much more feasible than to remotely think they would consider just admitting they were wrong and changing it all back. |
They had TS and HD on, it was horrible. I asked for a level 50 engagement and I got my lol Sonic/Sonic and my friend was on his Invuln Brute vs. a Traps Corr and a Inv/something Scrapper. TS and HD still on, we won 8-9 to 2. The two kills were on our Brute who didn't have Phase cos why would he for PvE.
The Scrapper was raging nonstop about Phase, running, popping insps all this stuff. He said he liked the I13 stuff because he could actually fight people now toe to toe without their hopping away, that it wasn't fair that people ran and phased all the time.
I felt bad about it, but this is the type of person that the I13 changes were aimed at. He seemed to enjoy them and I know others do as well, it's still just a huge mess.
@ Z:
All we want is some honest feedback. You can start a million threads but unless some aspects of I13 are repealed or changed, it won't mean much. My alt account is on a monthly sub that I keep just for the bank/storange. My main account recurs next Month, don't plan on cancelling but PvP isn't really fun right now. There's just not a lot of variety and it's hugely annoying/broken in some aspects.
If the Devs just came out and said:
"Look guys, we realize the I13 changes weren't popular but that's where we are now. We'll tweak powers as we go but the base I13 stays."
or
"We have no intention of working on PvP in the foreseeable future."
At least we'd have an idea where to go. No one is faulting you Z or Ocho or Ex Libris or Lighthouse or CuppaJo or...but we just want some real answers.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
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pretty much.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
If the Devs just came out and said: "Look guys, we realize the I13 changes weren't popular but that's where we are now. We'll tweak powers as we go but the base I13 stays." or "We have no intention of working on PvP in the foreseeable future." At least we'd have an idea where to go. No one is faulting you Z or Ocho or Ex Libris or Lighthouse or CuppaJo or...but we just want some real answers. |
i'm really really Really hoping someone grills them about it at pax during the Q&A. and i mean really grill them. like "im not going to let anyone talk and bug the crap out of you guys until I get a definite non PR/legit response" grill them
zam article brought it up, every other game coming out has pvp planned for their games(meaning it makes sense for them to fix it in order to be that much more competative) and they owe the community a response.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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This already exists. The good Psy/EM Blasters lock faster, evade better and kill better than new ones. That's what experience is all about.|
Originally Posted by SpaceNut
1. First and foremost, how do you create a system where the better PLAYER is victorious most of the time, instead of having a rock-paper-scissors powerset choice? |
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| 2. How do you create a system that welcomes PvP newcomers? I feel that the biggest deterrent to growing the PvP population (aside from what players view as a broken system) is that newcomers to the scene get plastered by veterans, and leave rather than having a place to develop their skills. |
but there you go. You can foster PvP through nightly casual kickballs, zone events, and so on. Level 4 Arena PvP for example.Quote:
| 3. On the developer side, how do you make losing fun, so that someone who tries out PvP has an enjoyable experience even when they lose, and are willing to stick around to develop the skills to win? |
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4. On the player side, how do you make the community welcoming to those exploring PvP for the first time, and reign in the vocal minority of PvPers who act offensively (QQ, teabag, carebears, etc) towards their opponents, thus driving away new blood? As a former casual PvPer, these are the big issues in my book. For those of you whole say you like nothing about the current system, what elements would you have in your ideal PvP system? |
In my ideal system?
Holds could be broken by Clear Mind or Clarity. No more stop and go.
There would be a damage scalar based on number of attackers, number of buffers/debuffers on the other team, strength of attack and so on.
Bonus or objective points on maps. For example, if you gather at a certain spot for RAs or buffs you all get a slight +DEF buff.
Cages would be meaningful.
+Speed powers would be meaningful.
Nukes would be meaningful.
Basically I12 with a few I13 elements, DPA isn't bad in concept but it leads to very odd situations, like Ice Blast being DOA.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
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I like the fact that PVP can be almost completely ignored. I'd like it better if people didn't assume that every character has Shivans and Nukes. (I won't enter the PVP zones, at all, ever, for any reason.)
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Originally Posted by Starcloud
As long as PvP balance changes don't affect the way the powers work in PvE, I don't give a damn about PvP.
If PvP changes fall into the "death spiral" of affecting PvE play and PvE balance, that's when I'll be leaving the game. I do NOT want Issue 12 style PvP back if it means unifying PvE and PvP versions of powers. Also, those wanting the "old style" of PvP back seem to have forgotten the serious balance problems that previously existed. Namely, if you weren't a Night Widow, you were hosed in a fight. |
I'm sure no one wants PvP to affect PvE, what the majority want is for the powers to work as they did before, which was the same as PvE.
There is always a counter to every AT night widows were no exception, as they were easily taken down by any high attack willpower scrapper correctly slotted, usually in 2 shots because of the low HP's of night widow/forts.
But then you wouldn't find that now since mezzes are screwed & rise to the challenge was considered an offensive toggle & leaves /wp scrappers as a mezzed bag of HP waiting to be killed.
The only true balance problem before was knowing what to bring for what opponents there were, and how many of what inspirations.
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quiet frankly, you shouldn't try to cater the pvp newcomer or else you end up with the mess of i13. |
Originally Posted by SpaceNut
2. How do you create a system that welcomes PvP newcomers? I feel that the biggest deterrent to growing the PvP population (aside from what players view as a broken system) is that newcomers to the scene get plastered by veterans, and leave rather than having a place to develop their skills. |
the best way to do it is creating a system that makes sense and gives players room to excel.
for instance, there was a poster earlier in the thread(can't remember who it was) but was talking about going into pvp and getting destroyed but s/he knew *why* s/he lost. because the mechanics were similar or you could look up the mechanics and it'd make sense. you could improve your tactics, or learn the mechanics and adapt to them and ultimately fix what got you killed. this system doesn't have that. at all.
it also falls upon the players shoulders as well. RV in its current state is built to discourage newcomers. why? because it is always one sided and if you come in on the wrong side, you're going to get destroyed. its up to the veterans to help the newcomers along and to say "well ya know, you should probably try arena first since its a more balanced instance than zone and you'll learn easier" i think victory(maybe?) is doing something like this with their pvp academy or whatever its called.
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| 3. On the developer side, how do you make losing fun, so that someone who tries out PvP has an enjoyable experience even when they lose, and are willing to stick around to develop the skills to win? |
Also, i'd go on to say that pvp is much more fun when there is a large number of people(obviously) i13 cut down on your pool size and you're hindered by servers. I think what would make pvp more popular, even if you kept the current system in place, would be a pvp version of the league that is coming shortly. a queue system for arena events that would be cross server. I think it'd be easy to accomplish codewise(i'd assume so anyway) and it'd make pvp more accessible, which is the easiest way to making pvp more fun and successful.
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4. On the player side, how do you make the community welcoming to those exploring PvP for the first time, and reign in the vocal minority of PvPers who act offensively (QQ, teabag, carebears, etc) towards their opponents, thus driving away new blood? |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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You answered your own question there. Since a HUMAN PLAYER is ALWAYS going to lose, you have to give them some incentive to take the risk of doing so. In most competition, it's the idea that you CAN win... However, in PvP you might be the equivalent of an amateur suddenly finding yourself up against Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield and Rocky. |
Originally Posted by PC_guy
why does losing have to be fun? l Also, i'd go on to say that pvp is much more fun when there is a large number of people. |
However, I'll concede that the number of players who "would be interested in PvP if they stood a better chance or could get rewarded for wasting their time" (P.S., I'm one of them) is probably even smaller than the actual PvP playerbase. This game has too many carebears >_>
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
Let me get this out of the way first. I'm more or less what PvP'ers refer to as a "carebear". Honestly, I'm good with that.
Over the past 1.5 years or so, I've done some PvP'ing simply because I wanted something different to try.
What I like about the CoH PvP experience is: Most of the people I've met.
In all honesty, I'm not sure what is to be expected from this thread. The cares and concerns of the PvP community have been expressed many times in many threads over the past few years and little to nothing has changed. Also, based on earlier comments, nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future. So I'm not sure there is really a point to this thread right now.
Regardless.
I do have a few things to say to the some of PvP'ers who have commented in this thread. Bear in mind these are observations and opinions and not intended as some sort of call-out.
The only way you are going to have a voice that is listened to by the development team is to have enough people in game that actually PvP. You all know this and yet at times over the years you have acted completely contrary to trying to get people interested in PvP. Some of this has been perpetuated as stereotype but some of it is truth. In this instance, a few bad apples have definitely caused a good portion of the PvE player base to take a very jaundiced view of PvP'ers and PvP in general.
The only way I see for PvP to expand (and possibly change in a way PvP'ers see as positive) in this game is if the PvP'ers themselves make it happen. This means making it more accessible and enjoyable to the PvE community. If that would happen then there is a much greater possibility of the development team taking notice and expending resources toward PvP.
On Victory an attempt is being made toward that end. Masque put together something called PvP boot camp. It was an effort to teach people some of the basics of the current PvP system in a relatively low cost and low pressure fashion. He managed to recruit Philly, Smallz, and Ra to help and there have been other PvP'ers that have aided as well (my apologies to the ones not named).
This was very positive and was well done. Particularly in view of what it was: a first effort. There were 15-20 "students" involved in this and I believe that all of them found it enjoyable and instructive. I know that I did.
There is a boot camp 2 currently in the formation stage. It will be an expanded and modified version of boot camp 1.
The point I am laboriously trying to make here, is that at this juncture, it appears the time to expect the developers to do something for PvP without giving them a reason is long past.
Talk is cheap and making a list, while useful in some regards, is not going to change anything.
I know that some of you hold various PvP events on some of the servers. Unfortunately, the entry point and learning curve for PvP is much higher than the casual player may want to invest (at least initially). As a result, they try and fail and never return to these events.
Baby steps are needed.
Some of you will say that this is a lot of work and why should I do it?
You would be correct. It would/will be a lot of work. Unpaid work. And people will ***** at you constantly. Just like what happens to the Devs because you can't please everyone.
However, you have to ask yourselves whether or not you are just content to sit back, make lists of what you don't like/would change, and ***** about PvP issues. Or if you'd rather try to make a go of it and attempt to make things better within the existing framework and perhaps garner enough support to truly make your voice heard amongst the developers.
*Gets off soap box*
Take care folks
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.
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Originally Posted by _Flux_
fluff
The only way I see for PvP to expand (and possibly change in a way PvP'ers see as positive) in this game is if the PvP'ers themselves make it happen. This means making it more accessible and enjoyable to the PvE community. If that would happen then there is a much greater possibility of the development team taking notice and expending resources toward PvP. more fulff |
i typed out a long thing explaining how this was wrong but my browser crashed so...
the tl;dr of it was that trying to get pver's interested in pvp isn't going to accomplish anything. you shouldn't need players from another community to help you warrant changes. base builders shouldn't need pvpers to come in there and start base building to get fixes. pvper's shouldn't need badgers to come in and start pvping to get a bigger community to get pvp changes. the simple fact that the system is broken and the devs are the ones who broke it should be enough. any voice that pvp had was driven off by their changes.
trying to get pver's interested in pvp is the equivalent of putting a band aid on large wound. you are not accomplishing anything.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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Do you mean forts *after* the changes ? >.>
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Originally Posted by Starcloud
As long as PvP balance changes don't affect the way the powers work in PvE, I don't give a damn about PvP.
If PvP changes fall into the "death spiral" of affecting PvE play and PvE balance, that's when I'll be leaving the game. I do NOT want Issue 12 style PvP back if it means unifying PvE and PvP versions of powers. Also, those wanting the "old style" of PvP back seem to have forgotten the serious balance problems that previously existed. Namely, if you weren't a Night Widow, you were hosed in a fight. |
Shenanigans
LotD - JaL - POWT/SMD - SoCo - AJs
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A bunch of us have done this and are still doing so.|
Originally Posted by _Flux_
You would be correct. It would/will be a lot of work. Unpaid work. And people will ***** at you constantly. Just like what happens to the Devs because you can't please everyone. However, you have to ask yourselves whether or not you are just content to sit back, make lists of what you don't like/would change, and ***** about PvP issues. Or if you'd rather try to make a go of it and attempt to make things better within the existing framework and perhaps garner enough support to truly make your voice heard amongst the developers. *Gets off soap box* Take care folks |
Deep down, the player needs to want to compete against and beat another person or all the hand-holding in the world won't do a thing.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
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I have no idea what those guys are talking about. |
Originally Posted by Mirage_Mage
Do you mean forts *after* the changes ? >.>
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Originally Posted by Voided_Soul
There is always a counter to every AT night widows were no exception, as they were easily taken down by any high attack willpower scrapper correctly slotted, usually in 2 shots because of the low HP's of night widow/forts.
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I like that pve and pvp powers can operate differently. HOWEVER, they should still function very very closely so as to lessen the jarring experience of crossing over game systems.
PvPers new and old have to learn what amounts to an entirely different system to play pvp. In terms of making pvp more accessible to new players that is a non-starter, or epic fail if you will.
I liked (currently not subbed) arena options that let us cancel poor developer decisions. They have already been mentioned.
The speed of pvp and a full 3D environment (which is not utilized at all in pve) is what made this game attractive. Find a way to bring those aspects back to the forefront and you are set.
Pick a balance point and go for it. You can't be all things to all people. The old point was "balanced around a team" and honestly it wasn't far off the mark.
All my best to CoX,
Frosticus
PVP'rs have been struggling to get pve'rs interested in pvp. Several leagues on a few different servers have been ran. There are several in the community who run regular zone or kickball events.
The fact that people insinuate that pvpr's infamous attitudes is what keeps people from wanting to pvp is ********. If that were the case then the pve tards that bless this game with their ability to make any tf or team not fun due to their horrible attitude or gaming skills would run people away from pve. Or that annoying level 53 random NPC that 2shots players over and over again making it not fun would run the pver's away from the game.
PVPr's have had a reputation of smack talking since this game started. Yet it used to be a thriving community none the less. PVPr's have run community events for pvp since this game started. It used to work to organize events, more and more people joined and enjoyed it. PVPr's haven't changed nor has their focus on building up the community. What has changed is the fun factor due to the pvp gaming mechanics.
People like variety, they want to play different toons. However there are all of maybe 3-5 builds that are even remotely competive in pvp nowadays. People want to use inspirations just like in pve and have them actually do something. People want to buff, debuff, trow holds or stuns and have them effective like they are in pve. People want their travel powers to work in pvp like they do in pve.
I can't tell you how many times people have joined the pvp community all gungho about it to then get frustrated because none of those fabulous toons they dumped a bunch of money in to are competitive in the current pvp system. Yeah you can play any toon in pvp, but them being effective and competitive is a different story.
I have a total of 37 level fifty toons. Almost all of which I leveled through pve content. Out of 37 toons that are level 50 I actually enjoy playing about 20 of them. Out of those 20 toons that all have pretty expensive builds on them I have all of FOUR that are viable for team pvp. Before i13 probably about 16 of them were viable pvp toons.
There is nothing that the pvp community can do to build up the pvp community that it isn't or hasn't already been done. We can paint a pretty picture of how fabulous it is and how everyone should jump in and try it. We can walk around being all polite and painting pictures of carebears and wishing everyone a jolly good day after each match. However the fact still remains that once they jump in and their feet get stuck in the stinky slime that we currently call pvp they will go back to the fabulous world of pve where their buffs actually buff, their heals actually heal, their damage actually damages and their holds actually hold. Where they can play ANY toon and be effective. Why in the world would anyone trade all of that in to spend time being ineffective...and pay a monthly fee to do it too?
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Originally Posted by _Flux_
The only way you are going to have a voice that is listened to by the development team is to have enough people in game that actually PvP. You all know this and yet at times over the years you have acted completely contrary to trying to get people interested in PvP. Some of this has been perpetuated as stereotype but some of it is truth. In this instance, a few bad apples have definitely caused a good portion of the PvE player base to take a very jaundiced view of PvP'ers and PvP in general.
The only way I see for PvP to expand (and possibly change in a way PvP'ers see as positive) in this game is if the PvP'ers themselves make it happen. This means making it more accessible and enjoyable to the PvE community. If that would happen then there is a much greater possibility of the development team taking notice and expending resources toward PvP. Take care folks |
Nothing.
The current state of PvP? Ignored.
You started with Arena PvP and it is only defeat opponents. You have no escort, capture the flag, destroy item, etc. Open zone PvP is a waste of time and effort. Your powers do not work as they do in the rest of the game.
You could have an AE style setup for US to create and balance PvP, then we choose the maps, power limits and effects.
{Disclaimer: Becasue I have to now-a-days... If you have a problem with my two cents... Then have the guts to start a thread about it. I will be happy to show up in it. Just say my name... Otherwise... don't mention it.}
I'd place my self somewhere in the middlie betwen the carebears and the hardcore PvP'ers. I live in the middle. As I've PvP'ed about 80% of my in-game time since PvP was introduced in CoX... but technically. I've never really rolled a PvP toon. I start with a concept, I find a purpose, I then roll, level, learn, and respec toons until I find builds that do both rather well. I like that this game allows me to do so, and be just as competetive, effective, and successful as people who build strictly for PvP. This is what love the most about my CoH PvP experience.
I don't know if it's my not-so-serious approach to hardcore pvping, but I strangely have very little to complain about the CoH PvP experience. Sure, I could write a very long list of specific changes that affected my toons in a negative way, but even with those changes I've always enjoyed PvPing in this game. For example, my Ill/FF troller has had to change playstyles more than any other toon I know due to AoE mez nerfs... Max number of Pets changes... toggle dropping changes... defenses changes... actual power changes... and so on... yet to this day thrives... due to the adaptation of the current system. (Ill/FF has the big four mezzes which do not conflict with each others' timers: hold, confuse, KB, and cage... and placate via day job temps) This Ill/FF was my first toon. Not my first PvP toon... but the first toon I ever rolled almost 7 years ago. Like all my toons after it. it has NEVER been dependant on a system to thrive.
I also like the way changes to PvP have happened in the past few years. Without the hype and expectations. Subtle changes that aren't labeled as PvP changes... but offer reasons to try something new, and fill in a gap... or play a bit differnetly than before... or changes that add to a playstyle already perfected.
-New and useful temp powers
-Defender damage buff
-Dom rebalancing
-Hibernate for Defenders
-Epic pool proliferation
-Side switching
-PvP IOs
-Incarnate slotting
-Inherent Stamina
-Bug Fixes
-Arena options
-arena match from anywhere
-Shard drops from players
-Alignment Powers
-The realization that Teaming solves everything
-and lots more to come in I20!
Sure. Most will shrug off this list. Some will ignore it because none of it addressed HD or TS or DR... but I addressed those things about 2 weeks after I13... everyone else it seems quit, ran to hide in the arena, or came to the boards on a quest to convince the devs of this game that they know better.
The quality of PvP in this game has improved over time in the last year or two. Sadly though... the quality of PvPers has gotten worse at a faster rate. Once stuck doing the same things the same way... One will never see positive change unless it affects their way of doing things. If a deer somehow became capable of killing a hunter unless two shots were put in each eye (crude and random I know, sorry) Most hunters would rage about it and quit the sport... others would rise to the challege. Those against such a change would only applaud a change if it made what was already easy to do... easier. Think about that deeply and you'll have an idea of why I13 was both a success and a failure.
I like the complexity of CoH PvP. The fact that DR numbers are cryptic in a way. It encourages me to learn from trial and error. The way mez works make me feel smarter and acomplished when I'm able to use it effectively to control situations. The skill most will agree is required for insp management is the same as the skill required for insp use and power activation when TS is on, and the same skill required for using heals when HD is on... I like that. Having think about when to do what... as opposed to just doing it because you can or because that power is recharged.
I like that this game was smart enough to seperate the PvE and PvP systems in way that made PvP feel like an exclusive club, and keep in tact the basic roles and requirements of ATs. The fact that doin so allows for PvP'rs to get new powers changes and new powers without affecting balance is cool too... but not really "in my face" noticable heh, but I give props anyways. I'm not a numbers guy, so fortunately I wasn't affected much by changes to duration, or rech, or DPS and DPA. Nah i'm a tactics guy. A strategy guy. A guy that used /Psy on a dom long before Psy/came to blasters and knew that delayed damage and inherent range of psy would be OP if left in tact for blasters heh...
I like that this PvP system encourages and allows someone like me to shine, and enjoy everything allowed.
Sadly and/or surprisingly... what I dislike about PvP in this game has nothing to do with PvP is this game. What I dislike has to do with the fact that I have no desire to be a active participant or leader in the PvP community... and that the result of my personal dersire leads me to depend on leaders and respesentatives that choose not to express any other wishes and wants for PvP other than their own or those that agree with thier wishes and wants.
Real Talk.
As a PvP community. Our morale is at an all time low right now. Blaming others is easiest to do. Waiting for someone to fix it is a lazy man's game. Ignoring everything and anything except our personal wants and wishes is a sure way to prevent posistive change from affectting us (personally). Coming togetheras a wisercommunity (that is left despite the opinions that were programed into us from those that have left) is the path towrads balance... towards unity... and towards a better PvP experience for us all. Our ability to do so has become more important than ever before.
Highlighting and sticking to the parts we find the most fun is the most effective way to stay as paying customers, and because of this, it's easy for me to recoginize and commend the point of the OP, obviously because we are being prompted to deatil our favorite parts.
If the true purpose of this thread is to start a dialog with the PvP community that will hopefully lead to a summarized copy being set a dev's desk... I sincerely hope that you Zwillinger, will not be too poilite with us. I hope that you have the guts to tell us where we have messed up along with expressing the thoughts of the devs messing up. Continuing to allow us to think we know all there is know in regards to PvP (In this Game) is a mistake. I encourage you to strive for honesty... for that, most often is what clears one's shoulders of burden of truth...
TY for listening.
{Disclaimer: Becasue I have to now-a-days... If you have a problem with my two cents... Then have the guts to start a thread about it. I will be happy to show up in it. Just say my name... Otherwise... don't mention it.}
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
{Disclaimer: Becasue I have to now-a-days... If you have a problem with my two cents... Then have the guts to start a thread about it. I will be happy to show up in it. Just say my name... Otherwise... don't mention it.}
I'd place my self somewhere in the middlie betwen the carebears and the hardcore PvP'ers. I live in the middle. As I've PvP'ed about 80% of my in-game time since PvP was introduced in CoX... but technically. I've never really rolled a PvP toon. I start with a concept, I find a purpose, I then roll, level, learn, and respec toons until I find builds that do both rather well. I like that this game allows me to do so, and be just as competetive, effective, and successful as people who build strictly for PvP. This is what love the most about my CoH PvP experience. I don't know if it's my not-so-serious approach to hardcore pvping, but I strangely have very little to complain about the CoH PvP experience. Sure, I could write a very long list of specific changes that affected my toons in a negative way, but even with those changes I've always enjoyed PvPing in this game. For example, my Ill/FF troller has had to change playstyles more than any other toon I know due to AoE mez nerfs... Max number of Pets changes... toggle dropping changes... defenses changes... actual power changes... and so on... yet to this day thrives... due to the adaptation of the current system. (Ill/FF has the big four mezzes which do not conflict with each others' timers: hold, confuse, KB, and cage... and placate via day job temps) This Ill/FF was my first toon. Not my first PvP toon... but the first toon I ever rolled almost 7 years ago. Like all my toons after it. it has NEVER been dependant on a system to thrive. I also like the way changes to PvP have happened in the past few years. Without the hype and expectations. Subtle changes that aren't labeled as PvP changes... but offer reasons to try something new, and fill in a gap... or play a bit differnetly than before... or changes that add to a playstyle already perfected. -New and useful temp powers -Defender damage buff -Dom rebalancing -Hibernate for Defenders -Epic pool proliferation -Side switching -PvP IOs -Incarnate slotting -Inherent Stamina -Bug Fixes -Arena options -arena match from anywhere -Shard drops from players -Alignment Powers -The realization that Teaming solves everything -and lots more to come in I20! Sure. Most will shrug off this list. Some will ignore it because none of it addressed HD or TS or DR... but I addressed those things about 2 weeks after I13... everyone else it seems quit, ran to hide in the arena, or came to the boards on a quest to convince the devs of this game that they know better. The quality of PvP in this game has improved over time in the last year or two. Sadly though... the quality of PvPers has gotten worse at a faster rate. Once stuck doing the same things the same way... One will never see positive change unless it affects their way of doing things. If a deer somehow became capable of killing a hunter unless two shots were put in each eye (crude and random I know, sorry) Most hunters would rage about it and quit the sport... others would rise to the challege. Those against such a change would only applaud a change if it made what was already easy to do... easier. Think about that deeply and you'll have an idea of why I13 was both a success and a failure. I like the complexity of CoH PvP. The fact that DR numbers are cryptic in a way. It encourages me to learn from trial and error. The way mez works make me feel smarter and acomplished when I'm able to use it effectively to control situations. The skill most will agree is required for insp management is the same as the skill required for insp use and power activation when TS is on, and the same skill required for using heals when HD is on... I like that. Having think about when to do what... as opposed to just doing it because you can or because that power is recharged. I like that this game was smart enough to seperate the PvE and PvP systems in way that made PvP feel like an exclusive club, and keep in tact the basic roles and requirements of ATs. The fact that doin so allows for PvP'rs to get new powers changes and new powers without affecting balance is cool too... but not really "in my face" noticable heh, but I give props anyways. I'm not a numbers guy, so fortunately I wasn't affected much by changes to duration, or rech, or DPS and DPA. Nah i'm a tactics guy. A strategy guy. A guy that used /Psy on a dom long before Psy/came to blasters and knew that delayed damage and inherent range of psy would be OP if left in tact for blasters heh... I like that this PvP system encourages and allows someone like me to shine, and enjoy everything allowed. Sadly and/or surprisingly... what I dislike about PvP in this game has nothing to do with PvP is this game. What I dislike has to do with the fact that I have no desire to be a active participant or leader in the PvP community... and that the result of my personal dersire leads me to depend on leaders and respesentatives that choose not to express any other wishes and wants for PvP other than their own or those that agree with thier wishes and wants. Real Talk. As a PvP community. Our morale is at an all time low right now. Blaming others is easiest to do. Waiting for someone to fix it is a lazy man's game. Ignoring everything and anything except our personal wants and wishes is a sure way to prevent posistive change from affectting us (personally). Coming together as a [b/wiser[/b]community (that is left despite the opinions that were programed into us from those that have left) is the path towrads balance... towards unity... and towards a better PvcP experience for us all. Highlighting and sticking to the parts we find the most fun is the most effective way to stay as paying customers, and because of this, it's easy for me to recoginize and commend the point of the OP, obviously because we are being prompted to deatil our favorite parts. If the true purpose of this thread is to start a dialog with the PvP community that will hopefully lead to a summarized copy being set a dev's desk... I sincerely hope that you Zwillinger, will not be too poilite with us. I hope that you have the guts to tell us where we have messed up along with expressing the thoughts of the devs messing up. Continuing to allow us to think we know all there is know in regards to PvP (In this Game) is a mistake. I encourage you to strive for honesty... for that, most often is what clears one's shoulders of burden of truth... TY for listening. {Disclaimer: Becasue I have to now-a-days... If you have a problem with my two cents... Then have the guts to start a thread about it. I will be happy to show up in it. Just say my name... Otherwise... don't mention it.} |
its gonna rain . . .
Quote:
Nah, probably not. I think everyone knows by now.
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Originally Posted by lll Phoenix lll
its gonna rain . . .
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I'm not a current PvPer, but I have fond memories of a Fight Club formed among friends many moons ago. The way I see it, there are a number of possibly conflicting goals and ideas about how to change PvP, which I think would provide a lot of insight into the system:
1. First and foremost, how do you create a system where the better PLAYER is victorious most of the time, instead of having a rock-paper-scissors powerset choice?
2. How do you create a system that welcomes PvP newcomers? I feel that the biggest deterrent to growing the PvP population (aside from what players view as a broken system) is that newcomers to the scene get plastered by veterans, and leave rather than having a place to develop their skills.
3. On the developer side, how do you make losing fun, so that someone who tries out PvP has an enjoyable experience even when they lose, and are willing to stick around to develop the skills to win?
4. On the player side, how do you make the community welcoming to those exploring PvP for the first time, and reign in the vocal minority of PvPers who act offensively (QQ, teabag, carebears, etc) towards their opponents, thus driving away new blood?
As a former casual PvPer, these are the big issues in my book. For those of you whole say you like nothing about the current system, what elements would you have in your ideal PvP system?