What do you like about the Current CoH PvP Experience
By
Alpha_Zulu,
Posted on: 2011-02-28 23:07 in Everything about PvP
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Are you serious? |
Originally Posted by TheXor
Travel Suppression is fantastic too...it would be horribly unbalanced if folks could peg you without any movement penalty non stop.
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If both players have superspeed, what's unbalanced? It's not like anyone from 8-80 without some sort of debilitating condition shouldn't have the reflexes for that.
TS is annoying at best.
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
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1/Dodgy PvP views = Reality
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Originally Posted by Dahjee
No. Just wait until I stop by.
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Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
I hope everyone had a great week/weekend!
So I've spent a lot of time reading, re-reading and digesting this thread. Firstly, thank you to everyone who's participated. I've learned a lot about the current state of PvP in CoH from this conversation. This, combined with the many threads throughout the forums, has given me a greater insight into how people feel about PvP. As a Community Manager, this insight is extremely helpful.
So what's our plan as a Community Team moving forward? well, first off, we're going to continue the open dialog. Why is this important? Well, the more constructive and helpful discussions we have regarding PvP, the more opportunities I have to point the development team towards valuable feedback. The intent is that talk will eventually lead to action.
In the same spirit; There has been a lot of back and forth in this thread between players with varying opinions regarding what works and what doesn't work with PvP in CoH. I woud remind everyone here, that we're all on the same side and working towards the same goal. Please, don't discount someone else's opinion just because it doesn't line up with yours. Respect the fact that even those who have more limited experience with PvP than others still can contribute, and should still be encouraged to contribute. Remember this one truth: PvP is no fun unless you have other people to experience it with.
We'll be leaving this thread open for another day or so until we start a new discussion thread. I do have a new topic in mind, however moving forward, I'm more than open to suggestions on topics for discussion. Everyone is welcome to PM myself, Avatea or Beastyle potential topics for discussion and we'll take it into consideration.
Thanks!
- Z
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
I'll go ahead point this out. You won't see any responses along the lines of "Thank you so much for starting this discussion!!! <3 You're the man now dog!!!oneoenoen111 
" coming from any of the PvPers.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
So what's our plan as a Community Team moving forward? well, first off, we're going to continue the open dialog. Why is this important? Well, the more constructive and helpful discussions we have regarding PvP, the more opportunities I have to point the development team towards valuable feedback. The intent is that talk will eventually lead to action.
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It's good to know that you intend to at least listen to what the PvP community is saying. I feel I need to point out however that one of the more common complaints in the past has been a lack of communication FROM devs and community reps. It has pretty much always been a one sided conversation in that regard. We understand that marketing has your hands tied when it comes to divulging information, but it would be nice if you popped in once in a while and let us know that what we are saying has been passed on and that it has been heard and understood.
For instance, the numerous bugs that have been mentioned. We don't even know if the devs are even aware of them since there has been no acknowledgement that they exist. I have seen threads in other forums that detail bugs and it's not unusual for a red name to pop in and say something about it. That doesn't happen here. I have in the past emailed Castle concerning various bugs. The PvE bugs I reported were always acknowledged promptly with an email. The PvP bugs, never. I don't even know if Castle ever got those emails because I never heard anything about them again, and who knows what happend to them after he left.
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If the action does not involve I12 settings on Arena, or at the very least No base resists and I12 Mez...not really much more to say.|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
So what's our plan as a Community Team moving forward? well, first off, we're going to continue the open dialog. Why is this important? Well, the more constructive and helpful discussions we have regarding PvP, the more opportunities I have to point the development team towards valuable feedback. The intent is that talk will eventually lead to action.
- Z |
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Originally Posted by Alpha_Zulu
I'll go ahead point this out. You won't see any responses along the lines of "Thank you so much for starting this discussion!!! <3 You're the man now dog!!!oneoenoen111
" coming from any of the PvPers. |
I12 or bust.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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look man, I like what you're trying to do but honestly. what is the point? |
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I hope everyone had a great week/weekend!
So I've spent a lot of time reading, re-reading and digesting this thread. Firstly, thank you to everyone who's participated. I've learned a lot about the current state of PvP in CoH from this conversation. This, combined with the many threads throughout the forums, has given me a greater insight into how people feel about PvP. As a Community Manager, this insight is extremely helpful. So what's our plan as a Community Team moving forward? well, first off, we're going to continue the open dialog. Why is this important? Well, the more constructive and helpful discussions we have regarding PvP, the more opportunities I have to point the development team towards valuable feedback. The intent is that talk will eventually lead to action. In the same spirit; There has been a lot of back and forth in this thread between players with varying opinions regarding what works and what doesn't work with PvP in CoH. I woud remind everyone here, that we're all on the same side and working towards the same goal. Please, don't discount someone else's opinion just because it doesn't line up with yours. Respect the fact that even those who have more limited experience with PvP than others still can contribute, and should still be encouraged to contribute. Remember this one truth: PvP is no fun unless you have other people to experience it with. We'll be leaving this thread open for another day or so until we start a new discussion thread. I do have a new topic in mind, however moving forward, I'm more than open to suggestions on topics for discussion. Everyone is welcome to PM myself, Avatea or Beastyle potential topics for discussion and we'll take it into consideration. Thanks! - Z |
if you want a thread to point the devs to for feedback, point them to the stickies that are in the pvp section that say everything anyone could possibly say in these threads, but with more depth and numbers to back up their claims(i would assume that matters to the devs)
starting discussion threads like these from now on are a nice PR stunt but they aren't going to help pvp. its not a matter of how do we fix pvp, or whats wrong with pvp or how do we make pvp more accessible. its a matter of the devs thinking their **** doesn't stink.
there is nothing the players can do from this point on. any hopes for something coming pvp related is entirely dependent on the devs
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| The intent is that talk will eventually lead to action. |
no offense to you, but why is now different from 3 years ago(or 2 years ago, or 5 months ago) in hoping that something gets done for pvp just because you're starting some BS PR threads wanting information and peoples opinions when both have already been given multiple times over. why are these threads different from other community reps pushing for pvp fixes i.e. mod08.
what is the point of these threads? because if you look at this game's history, it suggests that there is none.
NOTE: im not trying to discourage anyone from having these discussions, but Z, you make it sound like starting these threads is going to accomplish something. it isn't. ever. period.
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
Wow PC Guy, how'd you get to be such an optimist? Your half-capacity glass must be OVERFLOWING! =D
I mean look, the Devs/management didn't HAVE to tell Z to open up to us. They wouldn't do that just to get people talking and then NOT take some action. Granted, the changes people are asking for might be out of the Devs scope to give us immediately. Maybe they were looking for ideas for a quick-fix or whatnot. But it's not like Z said "well I'm bored, i'm gonna go ask the PvPers some mindless questions and stir up the hornet's nest!"
Now, I realize you'd rather expect NOTHING and then get a little something, than expect a lot and get nothing or next to it. But really, dial it back a bit, you sound nutty!
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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Have you not been around here for awhile? It is EXACTLY like the Devs to send someone to placate us then do absolutely nothing for a couple of years. This is not the first time this has happened so I really don't expect anything to be different.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Wow PC Guy, how'd you get to be such an optimist? Your half-capacity glass must be OVERFLOWING! =D
I mean look, the Devs/management didn't HAVE to tell Z to open up to us. They wouldn't do that just to get people talking and then NOT take some action. Granted, the changes people are asking for might be out of the Devs scope to give us immediately. Maybe they were looking for ideas for a quick-fix or whatnot. But it's not like Z said "well I'm bored, i'm gonna go ask the PvPers some mindless questions and stir up the hornet's nest!" Now, I realize you'd rather expect NOTHING and then get a little something, than expect a lot and get nothing or next to it. But really, dial it back a bit, you sound nutty! |
Z if you really do care, and I hope you do, most of us really don't care if you do or you don't because in the end we know that nothing is going to change. Hope is gone at this point...
I personally feel that if you guys do revamp PvP it would actually help, I know for a fact that a few of the guys I used to run with would come back if i13 was reverted. If the Devs actually do take another pass at PvP please don't just drop the changes on us, ask for feedback, then ignore it. Or you know...tell us that, "lol these changes aren't for you, so suck it up!"
No relation to Arachnos!
Part Pack: Now the majority of players know how we, PvPers, have felt for years now. Don't want to be so "civil" now that you have been completly ignored, do you?
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
I mean look, the Devs/management didn't HAVE to tell Z to open up to us. They wouldn't do that just to get people talking and then NOT take some action.!
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because thats not at all what GF did when he came in the pvp boards just to specifically tell the pvp community that revamped CoP wouldn't mean they were reactivating base raids(which was completely unwarrented and unnecessary by the way and only served to effectively hit the bee's nest with a stick)
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| Granted, the changes people are asking for might be out of the Devs scope to give us immediately. Maybe they were looking for ideas for a quick-fix or whatnot. But it's not like Z said "well I'm bored, i'm gonna go ask the PvPers some mindless questions and stir up the hornet's nest!" |
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| Now, I realize you'd rather expect NOTHING and then get a little something, than expect a lot and get nothing or next to it. But really, dial it back a bit, you sound nutty! |
Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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That's all cool and all if you want to have that point of view. However, here in the real world, the PvP community and PvP itself has been pretty much ignored since Castle made his inglorious "PvP Changes" thread 3 years ago. If one looks back on history it speaks for itself. Just several weeks ago Positron posts the following...|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Wow PC Guy, how'd you get to be such an optimist? Your half-capacity glass must be OVERFLOWING! =D
I mean look, the Devs/management didn't HAVE to tell Z to open up to us. They wouldn't do that just to get people talking and then NOT take some action. Granted, the changes people are asking for might be out of the Devs scope to give us immediately. Maybe they were looking for ideas for a quick-fix or whatnot. But it's not like Z said "well I'm bored, i'm gonna go ask the PvPers some mindless questions and stir up the hornet's nest!" Now, I realize you'd rather expect NOTHING and then get a little something, than expect a lot and get nothing or next to it. But really, dial it back a bit, you sound nutty! |
The reality of the situation is this.
PvP hasn't see any real changes since i13. lol@thedevsfixingstuff. (yes I've been around for the past 3 years)
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Originally Posted by Positron
DR is a tool that gives a lot more flexibility to designers when they are creating powerful effects. Without it, PVP would just come down to who can buff the fastest to get off their killing blow.
I understand a hatred towards DR, as it really does monkeywrench a lot of builds, but it does give the Powers team a lot more flexibility in what they are allowed to create. |
What that basically tells me is that he and the development team don't have a bloody clue about PvP. Nor do they know anything about the strategies/tactics involved in PvP.
It's also blatantly obvious he wasn't concerned in engaging in any sort of discussion in that thread. These 2 lined responses that basically amount to corporate BS is what frustrated me the most when we were talking to the devs back in I13/I13 beta. No only did they NOT listen, they refused to actually engage in some sort of discussion.
Bottom line, this entire crusade started by Z is just another attempt to keep subs and give players false hope that they're going to do anything about it.
P.S. lol@putting the devs up on a pedestal. "The devs DON'T have to talk to you guys...". Give me a break.
Here is a topic for you. Explain why paying customers keep saying what they want and rather than giving it to us we just keep getting threads like this. The time it has taken for various community organizers to start threads like this could have been contributed to an I12 button in the arena kiosk. I am not a game developer but even I know it can't possibly be so hard it wouldn't be worth doing just to make some customers happy. Hell the time you guys would save on modding the threads in this section alone would probably be worth the time invested in creating an i12 button.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I'm more than open to suggestions on topics for discussion.
Thanks! - Z |
Giving an i 12 button, while nice for arena, would leave zones in the shambles of the crap changes that were forced upon us.
While arena is good for tournament stlye play, and the only thing i ever used it for before the changes, to test builds with friends, open zone is what was always more fun for me.
There should be no difference in how a toon performs from PvP vs. PvE.
Every AT has a role & it needs to be changed back to that.
No one should have to learn a different system to compete, having thier toons play the way they do in PvE IS the first step to getting people to stay in the zones with something they are comfortable already playing.
I can't fathom why but the reality of it is that there are LOTS of people who like i13 pvp. I highly doubt they would ever change it totally back. From a business standpoint it would be just as bad to take away i13pvp from the carebears as it was for them to take away i12pvp from the rest of us.
I think asking for an i12 button in the arena and maybe 1 zone to be i12 is much more feasible than to remotely think they would consider just admitting they were wrong and changing it all back.
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Originally Posted by Voided_Soul
Giving an i 12 button, while nice for arena, would leave zones in the shambles of the crap changes that were forced upon us.
While arena is good for tournament stlye play, and the only thing i ever used it for before the changes, to test builds with friends, open zone is what was always more fun for me. There should be no difference in how a toon performs from PvP vs. PvE. Every AT has a role & it needs to be changed back to that. No one should have to learn a different system to compete, having thier toons play the way they do in PvE IS the first step to getting people to stay in the zones with something they are comfortable already playing. |
I have a great q for the devs to answer. What are their plans to allow getting incarnates through PvP?
I don't know about the other PvPers, but I have about 4-8 active PvP toons depending on whats going on. To be even competitive in the 8v8s the incarnates will be becoming a must with the AoE buff, extra pets, attack procs and 400 damage nukes. I DO NOT want to have to farm the same trails/TFs/raids to get a toon to be at the level it needs to be to even bother using. At this point getting accolades, IOs, and even now the Alpha slot is bad enough to PvE for.
Aside from removing TS, HD and Global Resists from PvP, a working and rewarding PvP IOs/loot/money/incarnate system should be very high priority. If it isn't, at this point, I really don't see me doing any of the I20 stuff (that includes, but isn't limited to the raids and getting the new incarnate abilities)for any real reason other then to say I did it once.
And to all you carebears who come in here and say 'oh but you don't need to have that stuff' and 'but PvE is so hard', obviously your in the wrong forum section.
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Hi,|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I've learned a lot about the current state of PvP in CoH from this conversation. This, combined with the many threads throughout the forums, has given me a greater insight into how people feel about PvP. As a Community Manager, this insight is extremely helpful.
- Z |
Simple question:
Do you have a character in this game, and have pvp with ?
The best way to understand all the "things " discussed is, i think, "to test it by myself", no ?
??? huh there was a red name post? Sorry I was Pvping in dark age of camelot.
Kaoru Nan'drak 50th seasoned Broad sword/regen werewolf scrapper Justice
BOSS UP OR GET TOSSED UP - NURSETTE-
Founder and leader of The Crimson Moon -justice-
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Wow PC Guy, how'd you get to be such an optimist? Your half-capacity glass must be OVERFLOWING! =D
I mean look, the Devs/management didn't HAVE to tell Z to open up to us. They wouldn't do that just to get people talking and then NOT take some action. Granted, the changes people are asking for might be out of the Devs scope to give us immediately. Maybe they were looking for ideas for a quick-fix or whatnot. But it's not like Z said "well I'm bored, i'm gonna go ask the PvPers some mindless questions and stir up the hornet's nest!" Now, I realize you'd rather expect NOTHING and then get a little something, than expect a lot and get nothing or next to it. But really, dial it back a bit, you sound nutty! |
Posts like this are why Ocho never used his Ocho Forum account in the PvP section. All the little fanboi's going to the Dev and Community digests to follow the rednames around a get their noses brown, posting clueless bile in our threads.
PC Guy's posts have been right on and has expressed much of what I have been saying. While I get Z is doing his job, he is not serving the PvP community with these threads. He is damaging it and with it his future reputation with the PvP community.
There are already numerous threads he could have read I would be happy to post them for him. I already suggested he just get in game and talk to PvP'rs directly and just PvP with people.
Regarding the desire for the i12 button well considering the no TS and no HD where done by a dev on his own time I wouldn't hold my breath unless he does that again.
Anyway I am sure he will come post for us to stay on topic as we are not Arcanaville, who's off topic comments seem to be allowed. Ours are probably a bit to close to the truth and are negative. It's convenient to use "stay on topic" when ever you want to but obviously only certain people are held to that. (this is not a poke at Arcanaville or her posts but rather at moderation when it's convenient to you)
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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Keeping in mind that I have Tough Hide 18-slotted ...|
Originally Posted by Phillygirl
PC Guy's posts have been right on and has expressed much of what I have been saying. While I get Z is doing his job, he is not serving the PvP community with these threads. He is damaging it and with it his future reputation with the PvP community.
There are already numerous threads he could have read I would be happy to post them for him. I already suggested he just get in game and talk to PvP'rs directly and just PvP with people. |
The PvP community isn't big; Z risking his reputation within this one subset of CoH's broader community is not a big deal.
Give him props for opening a line of communication. Sure, he's a community guy and has zero input on business decisions like what features get dev time. But it's something. And it might lead somewhere. I seem to remember similar comments made about Ex, but she made enough of a nuisance of herself to the devs that she got a bunch of bugs fixed. And she worked at developing the PvP community. I wouldn't risk alienating Z out of hand; this might be the last chance PvPers get an advocate at Paragon Studios.
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I do apreciate an open line of communication we had that with Ocho. My problem is with a redname getting peoples hopes up and dashing them on some jagged rocks yet again. Honestly I am not sure there hasn't been a community rep that hasn't been a voice for PvP yet ex, niv, ocho all where afaik. Problem is they have absolutly no power other than to be our voice. |
Originally Posted by BurningChick
Keeping in mind that I have Tough Hide 18-slotted ...
The PvP community isn't big; Z risking his reputation within this one subset of CoH's broader community is not a big deal. Give him props for opening a line of communication. Sure, he's a community guy and has zero input on business decisions like what features get dev time. But it's something. And it might lead somewhere. I seem to remember similar comments made about Ex, but she made enough of a nuisance of herself to the devs that she got a bunch of bugs fixed. And she worked at developing the PvP community. I wouldn't risk alienating Z out of hand; this might be the last chance PvPers get an advocate at Paragon Studios. |
I made a suggestion one which I think would really be a sincere effort at communication rather than just a post that in all apearences seems very insincere to many. To be blunt it looks like a post to make him look good at the new job. Maybe it's not that and he is sincere but regardless the perception from many is that it's for show. A sincere step would be to come to PvP league nights on freedom, pop into RV on a few servers, and attend various server KB's and stuff like PvP boot camp on victory.
"Play Nice and BEHAVE! I don't want to hear about any more of your shenanigans brought up in our meetings at Paragon"-Ghost Falcon @Tritonfree @Philly's 2nd Convenient CIGAL BoBC/INOANN Arts&Crafts Sporks
Average Joes FAP THE MENTOR PROJECT Justice Events
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I think this would have gone a long way toward making a good impression if it was done before making a post like this. A red name showing up unannounced and participating in KB a few times before one of these posts might lend more credibility than just saying they want to help.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
A sincere step would be to come to PvP league nights on freedom, pop into RV on a few servers, and attend various server KB's and stuff like PvP boot camp on victory.
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Originally Posted by Phillygirl
. To be blunt it looks like a post to make him look good at the new job.
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We have a saying at work.
"A new broom always sweeps well."
Kind of like the new guy that's all gun-ho about fixing EVERYTHING. And he's gonna revolutionize the ENTIRE COMPANY!!!
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I do intend to come out to a few of these PvP nights. A few things have prevented me from spending much time in game, mostly having to do with relocating my family cross country (my house looks more like a box factory than a house currently). Give me some time and I will be out there, embarrassing myself against the best of you as I get curbstomped over and over again |
Originally Posted by Phillygirl
...
I made a suggestion one which I think would really be a sincere effort at communication rather than just a post that in all apearences seems very insincere to many. To be blunt it looks like a post to make him look good at the new job. Maybe it's not that and he is sincere but regardless the perception from many is that it's for show. A sincere step would be to come to PvP league nights on freedom, pop into RV on a few servers, and attend various server KB's and stuff like PvP boot camp on victory. |
. For awhile at least *evil laugh*. I'm not worried about looking good, that's not what being a Community Manager is all about. We need to be visible within the Community so that we have a better understanding of those that we represent.
I've no illusions that I'm going to be some sort of miracle worker with PvP. However I do know that if I want to accomplish anything for the PvP Community, I have to be persistent and knowledgeable about the subject. Hence, these conversations.
Andy Belford
Community Manager
Paragon Studios
heres what i like about pvp
#1.....uhhhh
#2...ummmm
#3...errrrr
#4...hmmmmmm
#5..yeah i got nothing
the 30 second buff timer is so dumb.
if you couldn't keep alive during the first 10 seconds of a match and lost because 4 bad ujl forts psy wailed you, or some fire blaster inferno'd your team, you should go play tetris instead of this game.