Reichsman still equal parts tedious and annoying.
By
Atomic_Woman,
Posted on: 2011-02-08 16:49 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Well subjectively, the STF and LRSF might not be hard to some people. If you said, with no experience in the sport, that a basketball lay up is difficult to execute, then you're being perfectly genuine. Now if someone who has been practicing that move since they were a child said it was easy, they wouldn't be wrong either.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
There's nothing wrong with difficult content. What I take issue with is when people pretend that difficult content isn't difficult and that people who can't seem to beat it are somehow stupid or inferior. Hence, "lrn2ply" and "rtfm."
I dislike the Statesman and Recluse TFs, as well as the Tin Mage and Apex TFs, because they are difficult. When I state my reason for not doing them, however, I'm usually told that they're not difficult at all and I'm just not trying hard enough. I tend to then tell people to go to hell. |
It's folks talking over themselves. I recognize that these tasks are hard, but with practice and time they do become easy.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I can play the Metallica song "Master of Puppets" all the way through, correctly and at the proper tempo. But I have been paying guitar for 16 years. For me, that song is easy to play. My saying it is easy is a simple statement of fact. |
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Well subjectively, the STF and LRSF might not be hard to some people. If you said, with no experience in the sport, that a basketball lay up is difficult to execute, then you're being perfectly genuine. Now if someone who has been practicing that move since they were a child said it was easy, they wouldn't be wrong either.
It's folks talking over themselves. I recognize that these tasks are hard, but with practice and time they do become easy. |
A beginning guitar student then says that song is incredibly hard. For them, it IS incredibly hard, because it involves a lot of techniques that a beginning guitarist has not mastered yet, but are second nature to me. Them saying it is difficult is ALSO a simple statement of fact.
A task can be both easy and hard, depending on the perspective of the person attempting it. If someone says the STF is easy and you disagree, it does not automatically mean that one of you is wrong.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I liked him tons.
I was playing my Emp/Psi. He does not like Psi attacks, which meant with my Power Boost from the Epic power pool, I was hitting him pretty hard.
If you pull him to the corner area and the tanks crash him, I can line my Auras (Also boosted by the awesome power) and Adren some one and fort the others and focus on damage and health pools dont go down.
It makes me happy.
I like him.
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Perhaps, but going up to a beginning guitarist and saying, "I don't understand how you can be struggling with 'Master of Puppets', because it's soooo easy" would be a jerk move, and that's exactly how these discussions usually go (see: every Trapdoor thread ever). When someone is being dismissive and insulting, "go to hell" should be the nicest thing they expect to hear back.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
A task can be both easy and hard, depending on the perspective of the person attempting it. If someone says the STF is easy and you disagree, it does not automatically mean that one of you is wrong.
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99458: The Unbearable Being of Lightness
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You changed your mind on that then? |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
The Phalanx are all Hero class, so that makes it challenging. Doesnt make it not fun.
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@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Would it be more or less unkind if the two players had been playing on the guitar for the same number of years?
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Originally Posted by JKCarrier
Perhaps, but going up to a beginning guitarist and saying, "I don't understand how you can be struggling with 'Master of Puppets', because it's soooo easy" would be a jerk move, and that's exactly how these discussions usually go (see: every Trapdoor thread ever). When someone is being dismissive and insulting, "go to hell" should be the nicest thing they expect to hear back.
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Too many alts to list.
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Wouldn't make much difference really. |
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
Would it be more or less unkind if the two players had been playing on the guitar for the same number of years?
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A guitarist who's been playing for 5 years can be better than one who's played for 20 if he practices more.
Same goes for video games. If one person plays all day every day, he's probably going to be better than one who plays a few hours a week, even if they subscribed on the same day.
All I was saying is that 1 person saying to another that TF X is easy, and the other person disagreeing doesn't necessarily mean either one is wrong. I didn't mention the tone or attitude of the conversation because that was irrelevant to the point I was making.
I chose guitar playing as an analogy because it is something I know well.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I can't think of any context where such a comment would be in any way helpful. But then, it's not meant to be, is it?
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Originally Posted by docbuzzard
Would it be more or less unkind if the two players had been playing on the guitar for the same number of years?
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99458: The Unbearable Being of Lightness
191775: How the Other Half Lives
My Webcomics
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Depends if ones being playing it every available waking hour and ones been playing it a few hours in the evenings. It will make a helluva difference.|
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
Would it be more or less unkind if the two players had been playing on the guitar for the same number of years?
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Originally Posted by TrueMetal
You changed your mind on that then?
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By the time we got back, every Phalanx member was Forted and buffed to the gills. Even with Vengeanced Shivans they slaughtered us, so I consider they cheated.After that, despite a slight miss-pull on the final mish of the second attempt, we pounded them down in a much more equal manner, and had fun doing it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Except that the encounter can't be defeated by simply using the temps.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
It's not a sack of HP. Reischman is a scripted encounter on either side. AV Adds at specific HP totals + need to use the temp power for heroes. Adds + AT specific temp powers for villains IIRC (haven't done Cuda in awhile).
A sack of HP is literally a big AV with big damage that you have to beat down and nothing else is going on. We haven't had a TF like that in awhile. |
To win the tf you need to . . .
beat down on a sack of HP.
it's only scripted encounter when doing those things ENDS the encounter.
Which is not the case for either tf.
Scripted encounters of that sort exist in other mmos, where performing that script ENDS the ecounter, so I know it's doable.
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Untrue. There are plenty of scripted encounters where you have to do X, Y, and Z and then the encounter turns into your standard tank and spank. Like Reischman.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Except that the encounter can't be defeated by simply using the temps.
To win the tf you need to . . . beat down on a sack of HP. it's only scripted encounter when doing those things ENDS the encounter. Which is not the case for either tf. Scripted encounters of that sort exist in other mmos, so I know it's doable. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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My main objection is the tank and spank part.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Untrue. There are plenty of scripted encounters where you have to do X, Y, and Z and then the encounter turns into your standard tank and spank. Like Reischman.
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it's possible to make scripted encounters that do not have the traditional tedium of that part. Other mmos/games have done it, so I know it's possible.
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What do you mean "other MMOs?" This one has done it. Weakened Hamidon, Battle Maiden, the battle at the Kings Row stairs, Mr. I Am NICTUS, Recluse in the STF...they are all scripted encounters and none of them require the AV to have a million billion HP to make them "interesting."
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
My main objection is the tank and spank part.
it's possible to make scripted encounters that do not have the traditional tedium of that part. Other mmos/games have done it, so I know it's possible. |
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LOL. Thanks for that.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
What do you mean "other MMOs?" This one has done it. Weakened Hamidon, Battle Maiden, the battle at the Kings Row stairs, Mr. I Am NICTUS, Recluse in the STF...they are all scripted encounters and none of them require the AV to have a million billion HP to make them "interesting."
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Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Weakened Hamidon ends in a tank n' spank.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
What do you mean "other MMOs?" This one has done it. Weakened Hamidon, Battle Maiden, the battle at the Kings Row stairs, Mr. I Am NICTUS, Recluse in the STF...they are all scripted encounters and none of them require the AV to have a million billion HP to make them "interesting."
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Mr. I Am Nictus ends in a tank n' spank (although a quick one).
Recluse ends in a tank and spank (with adds) and it often takes longer than Reischman because he's locked at 54 which lowers damage to about half.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Do you mean to say anything, and I do mean anything PvE, in this this game requires a skill level gained by playing hours daily for seven years to be easy?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Depends if ones being playing it every available waking hour and ones been playing it a few hours in the evenings. It will make a helluva difference.
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I would beg to differ. I don't play hours daily. I often take weeks off when bored. I don't have any purpled out alts, and I got consistently creamed in my few ventures into PvP. I don't farm, and I really don't think I have any godly builds. I'm certainly no godly, top end player.
I don't tend to find anything in this game unreasonably hard. I've been on teams which have made content too hard, but that's just how it is. Some people just don't like to follow a battle plan, don't care to make their character effective, and don't bother the minimal skills required to be at least good at their AT.
Someone who doesn't make the effort to not suck doesn't garner a lot of my sympathy.
Too many alts to list.
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I honestly don't really see why people get so upset about Reichman. On BSF it's a bit annoying with the phasing, but on Kahn it's quite easy and quick. Even with his "massive pile of hp" he still dies quickly enough for any reasonable team.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Weakened Hamidon ends in a tank n' spank.
Mr. I Am Nictus ends in a tank n' spank (although a quick one). Recluse ends in a tank and spank (with adds) and it often takes longer than Reischman because he's locked at 54 which lowers damage to about half. |
Too many alts to list.
Kahn is so much easier than Baracuda-- but also less enjoyable while granting less rewards (shards, inf/exp, etc). I think they are balanced.
Did Cuda with a random team (Brute and Scrapper leading attack) last night and I think we only had one or 2 deaths (one was me when my Fort got Reich's full attention LOL). Slaughered them all quite handily.
We organized how to use guns so we actually had breaks in the ambushes. Also Fort AoE as a 50+ does a lot of damage and Aura of Confusion also holds up most of a spawn which can really take the pressure off. AoE fear etc are very useful here. This is a good time for those powers you don't normally use a lot because people complain. Waterspout is also fun (and looks really cool on this many foes).
Stacking Leadership made us almost unhittable and header did a good job too. Far as I can tell all big AV fights involve someone with either a million HPs or 10,000X regen or both so I don't see any difference there. Although again stacking Assults and a bunch of 50+'s help increase damage significantly.
I like the unique missions that don't just have an end boss and that's it. Those are the ones I find boring.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
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The only time I've been on a team that failed a Kahn it was because we just didn't have enough damage to drop him in a reasonable amount of time. |
Originally Posted by docbuzzard
I honestly don't really see why people get so upset about Reichman. On BSF it's a bit annoying with the phasing, but on Kahn it's quite easy and quick. Even with his "massive pile of hp" he still dies quickly enough for any reasonable team.
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We got stuck in a cycle where we'd whittle him down until he was almost dead and he'd pop his Unstoppable and regen back up. Then by the time we'd whittled him down again his Unstoppable had recharged and he'd pop it again.
Wasn't anything wrong with the encounter, we just didn't bring enough damage that time.
He's been fairly easy every other time I've run it, some went quickly, others took longer, but there was only the one failure, and people alted out so we could run it again and we dropped him pretty fast the second time through.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I don't think Reward merits have lost their luster at all. It's how I still purchase my LotG +7.5% Recharge IO's. Yes, I could just run tips or just buy them on WW's. But it's nice having an additional source of income in game other than inf., especially since they can be earned easily tying into the process of getting your Task Force Commander Accolade. I think they're still very useful depending on how you use them.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I wonder. The last time they did a merit rebalancing it was to increase all rewards. Merits have lost some of their luster. I doubt there will be any nerfs, but hopefully buffs. At least that's what I tell myself as I plot ways to speed through Sister Psyche!
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So essentially then, folks aren't telling us to lrn2ply. You're telling us to practice.
That would be all well and good, if you could just practice the part you're having problems with. Need to practice Rommy? Fine...after you deal with freeing the sybils, destroying a bunch of shards, dispatching dozens of giants, generals, and minotaurs. Oh yeah, and Requiem. You can't just skip to LR and practice, you can't just skip to Reichsman to practice. You have to slog through the rest of the stuff first.
Well, you can zip through some of the rest of the stuff, if you're lucky and you have a team that is experienced. But then you may not be really learning much. It took me a few runs of the ITF before I even knew what the heck was going on (ok - I've been teleported to...somewhere with some big 5th robots. Where? Who knows. Romulus? Requiem? Ok, no idea where they came from, but whatever!) I've been on successful ITF, but I didn't learn much strategy. A couple of times I was told to stay on a rooftop and wait. Others we just beat him down. Still didn't prepare me to be able to defeat him the latest time when the team was hopelessly lost. I've been on a Lady Grey, but I still couldn't tell you first thing about what to do with the Hamidon, I was too busy just trying to keep up and to keep folks buffed/healed.
Practice is time. And some of that time is spent doing things other than the encounter you really want/need to practice. Set up an instance where you can go to the final fight, just to take a look at things and try things out, cool. But needing practice on a TF, that if it doesn't go well *could* go three hours? And if your uninterrupted free time starts at 10:30PM? That's daunting. Especially if you end up failing, learning little, get nothing for a reward, and find yourself tired and angry at 1:30AM.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Hero side, Khan seems to come in two flavors.
* I've been on teams that have handily beat him down pretty fast
* I've been on teams that have taken two hours or longer (my longest was almost 3 hours, and the team were all well organized members of an SG that played together regularly, before everyone gave up).
I sympathize with the disgruntled players that get the three hour team the time or two they try it. Completing this one is like passing a kidney stone, so glad it's gone, but you never want to experience it again.
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Bull-****|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Weakened Hamidon ends in a tank n' spank.
Mr. I Am Nictus ends in a tank n' spank (although a quick one). Recluse ends in a tank and spank (with adds) and it often takes longer than Reischman because he's locked at 54 which lowers damage to about half. |
I personally found the STF finale a helluva lot more do-able AND fun while still being a challenge than the ball of Cheat and Hax that is the last Cuda mish. No stupid, endless waves of super-sight homing Nazis, no AV that is perma-'I have my own Class' mode.
Beating up Recluse and Co is fun because it envolves (for me anyway) tactics and teamwork. Single out the Patrons and kick them to the curb, avoiding their nasty tricks. Deal with the flier. Then managed Recluse while destroying his boosters. When he's down to normal status, curb stomp him.
Or you can, y'know, Leeroy them. It's a valid tactic, if your pumped up enough.
Rommy can be as complex or as simple as you like. You can simply Leeroy him, or you can try and pull his Nictus away, you can seperate certain Nictus...hell, you can even do what we did one run (albeit by accident) and kill him out of LoS of his minions, thus meaning he doesnt respawn, and then pick of the Nictus one by one.
Reichs? You have to you the temps. You cannot avoid the ambushes. They will see through stealth, hunt you to the entrance door, and spawn on top of you in the tunnels.
And there is NOTHING that stops Reichs from being a big, fat, hard hitting sack of HP.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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And even if the answer to that is "No, I love stuff like that." Can you not see how some players would enjoy difficult content that they have to practice and learn?
I dislike the Statesman and Recluse TFs, as well as the Tin Mage and Apex TFs, because they are difficult. When I state my reason for not doing them, however, I'm usually told that they're not difficult at all and I'm just not trying hard enough. I tend to then tell people to go to hell.
*edit*
And, thanks, but I'm not sure I want American police where I live.