Something I want to ask about set Inventions.

To head off a few obvious questions, let me start with a little background on why I need to know this. Over the years, I've stoutly refused to use Set Inventions, and my reasons are many and varied, but I'm feeling adventurous today, so I want to at least know about the subject. I do not, however, know much of anything about Sets, so I'm here to ask, and ask probably not the questions you expect.

My first question here is actually a concern: I looked at the list of all existing Sets and decided to check what I'd need to use if I wanted to go, just for instance, for melee damage. I'm looking for something that's EASILY affordable, which means PvP, TF-only and Purple sets are out, and I'd ideally want something at 50. Well, there really is only one single melee damage set that's like that in the game, namely Crushing Impact. I don't know how expensive this is to buy, but I know I've been getting drops of the recipes a lot, and I can see it only uses common and uncommon salvage, which should be easily doable.

Here's the question, though: Is that it? Am I seriously suppose to use just this one set over and over? Or am I expected to use lower-level sets, as well? I mean, looking a level range lower, Focused Smite looks pretty "affordable" and that goes up to 40. But that's starting to become... Somewhat problematic. You'd think the difference in percentages wouldn't be too great... But it really is, to be honest. By my math, I'd need at least four 50 Set enhancements of the same one effect to achieve what three damage 50 Commons can do for me now, and even then not quite.

Long ago, I discussed dual-aspect enhancements with people, and was told that I could get higher overall percentages with dual-aspects than I ever could with single-aspect ones, but that was assuming I could stack the effects I want, and those don't really recur so much in the one set I have to look at. Mostly, I'm looking to exceed the standard Acc/End/3*Damage slotting, and I'm not sure that's doable with just Crushing Impact. Moreover, trying to get too many of that one set will most likely prove to be problematic, considering a melee character typically has seven powers that can use that one, if not more.

In a way, I suppose it comes down to this: Were I convinced to go with Set Inventions, how much would I expect to HAVE to look for sets and enhancements below my level?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

If you are looking at getting into sets, then you have to remember the rule of 5. This refers to the set bonuses. Of course if you aren't really overly concerned with the bonuses, then frankenslotting would be best suited to you. This would just be grabbing io's that enhance multiple aspects of a power.

You can min max with sets if you choose. But personally, I tend to feel my way through them. I grow concept builds. And sometimes these builds are full of holes.

My approach:

Maybe one character doesn't move fast enough (especially prior to non-inherent fitness).

Maybe one character is a scrapper but in concept should be able to take a hit more like a super man or woman, and therefore could use some more resistance and defense.

Maybe another character, though not regen, should be "healthier" than normal and needs his or her health to be restoring more quickly than it does.

Basically, especially if already playing at 50, identify what feels off about your character, either concept-wise or simply based on play experience.

Then take a look first at just one or two powers you'd like to throw a set in eventually. In your example: melee damage. Take a look at the sets available. As you already asked: which one's go up to 50? What sort of set bonuses exist? +10% on regen? Okay. Does that fill a hole in your character? Or amplify them in a way you think you might appreciate?

Also notice that many sets with proc inventions can only have that proc slotted once. So if you are trying make the most of bonuses that kick in only when all six pieces are slotted in one power, know that you'll only be able to do this once for any given set with a UNIQUE proc in it. It's usually in the top tier where you find resistance bonuses for either toxic or psionic damage types.

Lastly, remember the "rule of 5." The game system will only allow your character to get up to 5 bonuses of any type. So you can only get a damage boost bonus from five different sets. Slot a sixth set with yet another damage bonus and the lowest of all six will be eliminated.

Overall, I tend to diversify. It helps make my squishies less squishy. My tanks do more damage. Certain characters more fleet of foot. Etc. etc.

It certainly can be overwhelming if you try to min max it and the thought of spreadsheets or hero builders turns you off. But know that you can swim through the system quite fluidly, further realizing your most super supers and making feasible some more oddball builds without once opening up a hero building aide. I do it all the time. Concept builder. Role player. Never power leveler. And I feel no need to min max with the system. It's quite enjoyable actually.

But start small and nibble at it. No need to memorize which sets have a six slot bonus that really helps your controller with status protection. You can always ask. Or simply give it time and you'll discover some of the goodness that is out there.

Good luck Sam and have fun with it should you take the plunge. It really is hard to do anything wrong in this game. Honest.

Something to remember when picking up inventions--if you choose to do so--is that often, some of the best set bonuses are the ones on the lower level inventions. (Note that this is not *always* true)

Example: Kinetic Combat--Raises your SL defense by a whopping 3.75%. Get a couple of those and you're well on your way to softcapping smashing/lethal defense.

Example #2: Shield Breaker--For similar reasons.

Example #3: Decimation--5 slot it for a large boost to recharge, and a small +max end.

The difference in percentages really aren't all that much, any don't forget that we have alphas now to make up for any deficiencies. Frankenslotting also works by getting you the maximum percentages in the minimum slots...you just have to forgo getting the set bonuses.

If all else fails, grab mids (if you don't have it already) and experiment to see what the set bonuses (and slotting percentages) do to your build.

If you're going from six-slotted with common level 50 IOs to six-slotted with set level 50 IOs, you will probably see a decease in enhancement to something (but likely see increase in enhancement elsewhere, likely something you hadn't enhanced before). Most damage IO sets will hit ED-caps on damge six-slotted from level 30 up.

But the real reason to slot set IOs is for set bonuses; if you're not interested in them, there's probably not a lot of reason to start slotting sets (frankenslotting, on the other hand, could be beneficial, if approached correctly.)

This may seem counter-intuitive but on my non-main characters, I have found the simplest way to make use of set IOs is with the unique/special ones.

For example, a corruptor in the low 20s is emailed a few million and spends it on the Karma knockback IO. Or he could use the merits gained from arcs for it. Or do tips in the 20s for an alignment merit. Just a single enhancement, in hover or combat jumping. But the effect of not being knocked around is immediately noticeable and useful.

Note that, depending on secondary effects, most attacks can take non-damage sets. An Acc/End/Rech IO from a stun or knockback set can be quite useful.

Note also that rarity does not always equal cost. An uncommon ranged attack set will probably cost more than a rare sleep set.


Generally, I see three ways one may make use of the invention system.

1. Global/unique IOs in "spare" slots. Like the -KB example above. Also, stealth IOs in travel, Kismet +accuracy, LOTG +recharge, Miracle/Numinas +recovery and so on. Little to no planning needed. With merits, they are simple (if time consuming) to acquire even solo.

2. Replacing commons to reach ED caps on more aspects. For example, take a melee attack with acc/end/3*dam.
At 50, 1 each of acc, end and dam provides +42% to each aspect.
Replace them with Crushing Impact Acc/Dam, Dam/End, Acc/Dam/End.
Combined these provide +47% Acc, +47% End and 74% Dam.
So, one of the 2 remaining damage commons can be removed and its slot moved to another power.
Or one could replace damage commons with Dam/Rech set IOs, to use the power more often - if one of them is from the same set then they also provide +7% global accuracy, which is nice.
Or one could replace a damage common with a Acc/End from another set, to bring those variables closer to ED cap.

3. Gaining set bonuses. This is when one slots sets primarily based on their set bonuses rather than enhancement values. By stacking bonuses of the same type some "interesting" results can be achieved. Softcapped defenses, perma-<awesome click power> and so on. Even without purples, one can do much.


Of course these ways are not mutually exclusive and a combination may well work best, depending on situation.

I hope this gives you, and others interested, some insight.

6 months ago I started looking at invention sets. I made lots of common IOs but I didn't really care about invention sets.

Now, I use IO sets heavily on 3 characters and I am working on getting more sets.

I would suggest reading some of the forum posts about Wentworths. Very helpful for generating funds.

Get Mid's build planner if you don't have it already.

There are lots of different ways to focus on IO sets.

1. Build for max defense. Quite a few sets are still really valuable because they boost defense. Kinetic Combats come to mind.

2. Build for max recharge. Many characters benefit from more recharge.

3. Frankenslotting. Trying to max out enhancement values per enhancement slot.

4. One slot wonders. Luck of the Gamblers and other Uniques like Steadfasts and Numinas. Also includes using procs.

5. Mixing and matching. Get as much as you can from recharge, defense, Frankenslotting and one slot wonders.

I'm not big on Inventions either and have only recently started slotting them. Likewise, I've never had vast reserves of inf so I've avoided expensive PvP/Purple sets as well.

My primary is a Mastermind so I've gone for the cheaper Pet Sets (Blood Mandate) and a single ranged set (Thunderstrike). My consideration for taking them was will the Damage and Accuracy be comparable to Basic IO slotting.

I've also substituted a Chance to Hold proc (Devastation) in my ranged attack.

Before this last set of changes, the only IO set I had was a travel set - Freebird in Fly. I've also recently added a Winter's Gift Slow Res into Hover (since they're in season).

Otherwise, I'm still on Basic IO's and perfectly happy!

Crushing Impact is actually a good set that pretty much any character can get use out of. If that's the only set you're willing to slot, who cares; it grants HP, accuracy, and recharge bonuses.

Now, I'm not sure how you slot with SO's, but usually if you slot a set, the accuracy enhancement is lower than the standard 2 accuracy enhancements in a power. In the case of Crushing Impact's, it's 68%.

However, set bonuses will fill up those holes, especially if you slot a bunch of sets. Crushing Impact's grant a 7% accuracy bonus which bumps up that 68% value to 75%. Even if you just use cheap sets, slotted right, you'll definitely see a performance boost in your characters.

If you're coming at this from the angle of "oh god, fine, I'll slot some sets, that'll shut 'em up", then you reallly shouldn't bother. Because as it is, your approach is kind of a non starter - you don't know what's possible, and you don't know what you want, so it's extremely premature to exclude options from the set of acceptable responses.

Sam,

you will see a significant improvement in each character using just crushing impact (melee), thunderstrike (ranged), doctored wounds (heal), red fortune (def) detonation (TAOE) and multi-strike (PBAOE).

Its not fully optimising, but all of those sets have decent set bonuses and are affordable as well as looking after the key parts of each power to enhance.

Mez sets, are generally cheap for a controller, same as pet sets. So feel free to fiddle much more with those.

One thing I don't think has been said yet:

If you don't want to use much inf you should look at recipes between levels 46 and 49, those are usually way cheaper (up to 50% I've noticed) than their level 45 or 50 counterparts for no noticeable loss (25.8% enhancement value vs 26.1%, for example). Crafting a level 49 IO also costs only half of what a level 50 would. Then there's also the thing that because recipes/IOs at levels divisible by 5 are for one reason or another more sought after the 46-49 ones often have better availability, and, as I said, cost less.

Incidentally, Sam: It'll never get you purples or PvP IOs, but if you just keep playing your 50s, you'll get good enough drops to sell on the market well below "Marketeering" prices and still fund the purchase of a lot of recipes. I know you don't run on x8 like me, but if you keep playing your 50s you should get a purple or two at some point, and just one can go a long way towards funding non-purple IO use.

Another example to go with Balanced's right above. Ignore any set bonuses, as we are just interested in enhancement value.

L50 Acc/L50 End/L50 Rech/3xL50 Dmg = 42.4% Acc/End/Rech & 99.08% Dmg

L30 Focused Smite (all 5) + L40 Crushing Impact Dmg/End/Rech
= 56.5% Acc (gain of 14.1%), 58.4% End (gain of 16%), 75.27% Rech (gain of 32.87%) and 95.29% Dmg (loss of 3.79%)

Way better overall enhancement. Focused Smite recipes from L30-L40 are very inexpensive. I regularly buy L50 Crushing Impact D/E/R recipes for 100k or less, so anywhere between 40-50 shouldn't be expensive.

When frankenslotting, don't get caught up on the level of the enhancer. Focus on the overall enhancement of the power. That's all that really matters. Pick the minimum level to achieve your desired enhancement value and then anything above that is just bonus.