Why take Devices as a secondary?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gehnen View Post
I have a few reasons...
  1. Downing an EB with nothing but a minefield is awesome.
  2. Smoke Grenade allows me to basically raise the defense of my entire team. Couple that with Cloaking Device, and I can stealth through most mobs in the game.
  3. Web Grenade is a pretty hefty -recharge, even when the immobilize doesn't catch. I just toss it twice on bosses to stop them.
  4. The area denial impact of Caltrops is amazing. With a range-capped blaster (I know this isn't the norm), keeping everything out of melee is basically god-mode.
  5. Gun Drone can take some of the aggro that I don't want, and deal a little bit of damage to boot.
  6. Targetting Drone is amazing...forget Build Up. I can constantly hit my target as long as this toggle is running. CoT ghosts, and +1's mean absolutely nothing to me. Burst damage for 10 seconds is very highly overrated when you consider "never" missing. Of course you could just put the Gaussian's proc in this power like I did.
I've never understood why Devices is so unloved, honestly. I imagine it's just under-utilized since it's so unlike other secondaries. I do agree that Time-Bomb is pretty much useless for a good percentage of the population (but to those that make it work...thumbs-up!).

I've never used Taser
Traps is better..

I have a 50 AR Device.. I have a 50 Traps AR.. My Defender was able to handle both AVs during the incarnate mission in Rikti War Zone.. My Ar Device couldn't dent the AV and it was a bit of a struggle when I had to knock them down to EB status.

Both are IOed out. Both builds are on the respective forums. My defender is fully defense capped my Blaster is Range capped.

FFG beats smoke

Stealth IO and Super Speed beats cloaking device.. I can toe bomb the same way I can with my AR Device guy..

Both have Caltrops..

Poison Traps or Acid mortar out weigh Gun Drone. Poison Traps with Lock down proc is GREAT.. Even after when you think the poison isn't working anymore, mobs still get hit with the lock down proc.

I have both Taser and bean bag 6 slotted and I need both to hold a boss mob. Both are a mag 3 hold. On my Ar Device toon.

I can between poison traps and the proc hold up to 10 mobs.

My Defender has a 20% ToHit bonus and a 41% Accuracy bonus
My Blaster has 51% ToHit bonus and 41% Accuracy bonus
End result I am getting a 30% ToHit bonus difference. But Traps crushes Devices.. My Defender offers a team 25% defense bonus and a 19% damage bonus from Assault..

Add in to this mix that solo my Defender gets a 30% damage increase and double slotted for damage from incarnate.

Device is cute at best. And I say this as I ended up spending 100 million slotting up my AR Device to make him i19 compliant. But the more I play other toons like my Arch EM or when I jump on my Traps AR Defender or even my Sonic Traps Corruptor I can see how much Device is lacking..

The only reason to play Device is for thematic reasons and even then you can use traps for exactly the same concept and be even more massive solo and teams..

Again I have it.. Its one of my oldest toons and I took the time to update him.. But when your comparing him to other toons.. He just stinks in so many ways its unbelievable..

Device has NOT had a decent update in a dogs age..

Why do you think that Target Drone ONLY gives a bonus to AR Sniper Rifle and no other snipe from any other set ? Because AR has no build up, people complained and you could not mix and match the sets the way you can today..

They changed Auto Turret to Gun Drone because people complained that they needed Teleport friend just to move Auto Turret around or where stuck to waiting a long time for the recharge. Basically a T9 power that you rarely used.. They made it gun Drone which now, though decent I will admit still can be annoying pulling aggro if you screw up and get too close to mobs while setting up stuff. If it had one dumb command just to stay or follow it might be a bit better. This way you can have it lay back while you set up and or drop a Toe Bomb similar to the way you did back in the day with Auto Turret..

Another simple comment.. You can make a VEAT Hunter build and have a better cloaking device and get critical hits with the Hunter Attacks which you cannot do with Device.. Mind you though they wanted to do that with Cloaking Device way before VEATs even came out. But scrapped it because they felt it was not balanced.. Sadly they kept the wording in for a long time before finally removing it once again because people erroneously kept picking it up thinking it offered some sort of Crit bonus to attacks and of course complained it didn't. Yea they are different but concept wise you can get there with the VEAT build as well and if your not gonna complain about the redraw you can even pick up a mace attack or two..

Again if we are just gonna talk about concept I have seen some really nice Hunter and Hunter Hybird builds on the VEAT forums..


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Of course Traps is better. It's newer. That's not always a guarantee, but a lot of learning happened between one and the other.

I'm satisfied with my Fire/Devices Blaster. /Devices hasn't hampered Fire/ from putting out ridiculous amounts of damage from long range, and /Devices lets me do things the other Blaster sets can't.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Of course Traps is better. It's newer. That's not always a guarantee, but a lot of learning happened between one and the other.

I'm satisfied with my Fire/Devices Blaster. /Devices hasn't hampered Fire/ from putting out ridiculous amounts of damage from long range, and /Devices lets me do things the other Blaster sets can't.
Beyond the several advantages of fire over Assault Rifle. Just reread your first sentence over and over.. The simple fact is one secondary or even primary should not be BETTER then another.. It should have different advantages when compared to other sets and vice versa.

Sadly after 6 years this game is so beyond Device that they must be thinking whats the point to try to revamp this whole set and lets just stick to what we have and move forward.. Everyone has enough slots to make other toons and they can easily just create an AR Traps Corruptor and go rogue. Those that want to play Device for what is offered know the issues and are playing them willingly knowing those issues( which of course is true ).

I get it, but it is annoying at times.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Beyond the several advantages of fire over Assault Rifle. Just reread your first sentence over and over.. The simple fact is one secondary or even primary should not be BETTER then another.. It should have different advantages when compared to other sets and vice versa.
It should. But experience (usually) leads to better design.

Anyway, Traps and Devices do do different things, if you want to stretch a point. Traps is team buffs/debuffs. Devices has some debuffs, but mostly it's about personal buffs and mobility. Between Cloaking Device and Smoke Grenade, you can move through an entire map without aggroing anything, except maybe Snipers. You can have a constant to-hit buff that allows you to casually hit almost anything without effort.

The utility of those abilities compared to Traps is certainly arguable, although recent mission design has allowed for more stealth options, but those are definitely things Traps can't do. (All this of course ignores the fact that no AT allows for a choice of Traps versus Devices, unless you're choosing between a /Dev Blaster or a /Traps Corruptor.)


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg View Post
For point #3
Trip mines stacked from a decently slotted solo blaster can 'one shot' an EB pulled onto the stack
Everybody knows burst damage is great...especially for Blasters, because they lack the defenses to stand up to sustained pounding. They prefer to lay the hurt down and win.

Trip mines appear slow and useless to some players because they involve delay, but they are a way of shifting damage (and all-important animation time) forward in time and releasing it all in one burst. In effect, trip mines trade setup time to gain bigger burst damage when they do go off.

Rather than animating a long attack chain while being pounded on (and while the enemies are regenerating hit points!) one can animate placing a bunch of trip mines in advance, and while they are going off you are ALSO animating your normal attack chain for the ultimate in stacked-up damage all at once.

That's why trip mines can sometimes let a Blaster do things that would otherwise be completely out of reach.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

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Originally Posted by Starflier View Post
I like Devices because a lot of my blasty-types are meant to be 'natural' origin and Defenders and Corruptors don't get LRM. It's the only real choice. Plus, it has so many crap powers that I don't have to worry about 'finding room' for concept powers.
There are no crap powers in Devices, unless you only think in terms of teaming and speed over safety (I'll gladly take 30s to lay a Time Bomb and follow up with Full Auto just as it's about to explode to wipe out all Minions and LTs, and severely weaken any Bosses, before anything can start to damage me while I'm soloing ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Traps is better..
Yes, we know. But Blasters can't take Traps, so we don't care.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby View Post
There are no crap powers in Devices, unless you only think in terms of teaming and speed over safety.
That's kind of the issue, though. That is a nice aspect of Devices that you can be so safe with it, but most Blaster sets can do what Time Bomb does for a Devices player, and all without the extremely long setup. Devices calls for a very different playstyle than most sets in CoX, and certainly is very different playstyle than most Blasters. Blasters do best when they keep an engagement short and sharp, which Devices can technically do, but other sets can keep things short and sharp without so many powers that require long setups before an engagement.

I like Devices, don't get me wrong, but I am going to argue that summoning Gun Drone, Trip Mine, and Time Bomb needs to be more fast and simple, like using Cal Trops or the Grenade powers. If they were more on par for animation time, then they wouldn't be quite so slow and people would enjoy the powers more for what they are.


Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc:
Belated Justice, #88003
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Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory

 

Posted

Concept, lack of information, or the desire to be a unique slowflake in a game that has long since evolved beyond the scope of the set.

It's sad, because updating the set while paying respect to the infamous cottage rule doesn't seem like it would be difficult to do at all.


PenanceжTriage

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patient_V View Post
Concept, lack of information, or the desire to be a unique slowflake in a game that has long since evolved beyond the scope of the set.

It's sad, because updating the set while paying respect to the infamous cottage rule doesn't seem like it would be difficult to do at all.
Duuuuh, suddenly I realize my mistake. Devices is duh-umb! I lack information, and desire to be a snowflake! The game has evolved past me and my main character because I adhere strictly to my concept! I take back all the absolutely true things I said about the set (and even the subjective stuff I said about Tactics).

Thank you sir for pointing me in the right direction. Boy have I been wasting my time.../sarcasm

While I agree with the second half of your post, the first half lives under a bridge.


 

Posted

It's an outdated set, but it's not yet obsolete, and it certainly isn't ineffective. It's an old '92 pickup that lacks modern features like power steering and automatic transmission, but it still gets the job done. You're not crazy if you prefer the new hotness, but neither are you crazy if you decide Devices does what you need/want to do.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

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Originally Posted by shaggy5 View Post
I have two blasters (50 Elec/ and 39 AR/) with devices as a secondary.
I will admit, there is a certain novelty to elec/dev having two pets. I've got mine in the low forties now. The only thing keeping me playing is the extra novelty of summoning even more pets from Mace Mastery.


The Bacon Compels You.

 

Posted

When /MM first came out, I had it paired with fire/, on the advice of, oh roughly a thousand people . After giving it every chance to really be something remarkable, I finally called it quits. I was sick of doing that "Fire Blaster Shimmy" trying to get away from whatever was targetting me, that always seemed out of the tanks' taunt range. I died a lot, which is boring, and the powers were just... blah. That toon has now been sitting at lvl 45 for so long that... well, it still has base salvage on it. I finally puzzled it out and realized that /MM doesn't do anything to augment fire primary - it's just sort of more of the same thing. It doesn't mitigate (though I did get some good jokes off about WoC, saying I'd been caught in a horrible accident at a bubble gum factory). These are the two things I want from a secondary for a really powerful primary like fire/ - I want the secondary to make fire/ more survivable, and, if possible, to make the fire blasts work even better.

Some time later, I wanted to try fire/ again, checked the secondaries once more, and came up with /devices. Surprise, surprise, It is AWESOME. The sheer joy of Caltrops + RoF is a thing of beauty which cannot be described in mere words! I have a fire/dark corr., but this is even better, because the fire damage is so much better on a blaster.

I took the Taser, which is helpful for anything that isn't effected by slows, like council wolves. Also took the Cloak and the Targeting Drone, though am not certain if they are still needed at 50. However, they are both toggles, which means I set them and leave them alone, and they do their things while I do mine.

Have tried most of the other powers in the set during various respecs, but have ended up dropping them all as being far too fiddly for my playstyle. I can, and have seen, the benefit of using the bombs, but I just can't stand the fiddly. Smoke? Well, it works really well on Night Widows, but never did notice it do anything particularly for me, even fully slotted. Also, see: fiddly.

Thus I have all of 4 powers (plus the web you have to take) all of which augment fire/ while giving me much, MUCH more survivability. This allowed me to take everything in the primary - something I have can only rarely achieve on other toons, and all the power pool selections I really wanted. Unheard of!

I hear your complaints about the set, I really do. I would not take it or recommend it for something like Psi or Sonic, which have their own mitigation. For those, I'd likely suggest a high damage secondary. Fire/ doesn't need a high damage secondary, it just needs a few little things that make it function better and help you survive. Devices has those things.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
It should. But experience (usually) leads to better design.

Anyway, Traps and Devices do do different things, if you want to stretch a point. Traps is team buffs/debuffs. Devices has some debuffs, but mostly it's about personal buffs and mobility. Between Cloaking Device and Smoke Grenade, you can move through an entire map without aggroing anything, except maybe Snipers. You can have a constant to-hit buff that allows you to casually hit almost anything without effort.

The utility of those abilities compared to Traps is certainly arguable, although recent mission design has allowed for more stealth options, but those are definitely things Traps can't do. (All this of course ignores the fact that no AT allows for a choice of Traps versus Devices, unless you're choosing between a /Dev Blaster or a /Traps Corruptor.)
Sadly Super Speed and a Stealth IO pretty much counter Cloaking Device and smoke. I will say if there is a sniper or a Rikti Drone then even I will be noticed. But if I am doing a stealth run even without FFG out my defenses are so high that the minor aggro I get from being spotted by these types of mobs is not an issue. Further I think its a benefit to having an IO save me 2 power slots. But if those things are not present I can Toe bomb effectively as would a Device player.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by _eeek_ View Post
When /MM first came out, I had it paired with fire/, on the advice of, oh roughly a thousand people . After giving it every chance to really be something remarkable, I finally called it quits. I was sick of doing that "Fire Blaster Shimmy" trying to get away from whatever was targetting me, that always seemed out of the tanks' taunt range. I died a lot, which is boring, and the powers were just... blah. That toon has now been sitting at lvl 45 for so long that... well, it still has base salvage on it. I finally puzzled it out and realized that /MM doesn't do anything to augment fire primary - it's just sort of more of the same thing. It doesn't mitigate (though I did get some good jokes off about WoC, saying I'd been caught in a horrible accident at a bubble gum factory). These are the two things I want from a secondary for a really powerful primary like fire/ - I want the secondary to make fire/ more survivable, and, if possible, to make the fire blasts work even better.

Some time later, I wanted to try fire/ again, checked the secondaries once more, and came up with /devices. Surprise, surprise, It is AWESOME. The sheer joy of Caltrops + RoF is a thing of beauty which cannot be described in mere words! I have a fire/dark corr., but this is even better, because the fire damage is so much better on a blaster.

I took the Taser, which is helpful for anything that isn't effected by slows, like council wolves. Also took the Cloak and the Targeting Drone, though am not certain if they are still needed at 50. However, they are both toggles, which means I set them and leave them alone, and they do their things while I do mine.

Have tried most of the other powers in the set during various respecs, but have ended up dropping them all as being far too fiddly for my playstyle. I can, and have seen, the benefit of using the bombs, but I just can't stand the fiddly. Smoke? Well, it works really well on Night Widows, but never did notice it do anything particularly for me, even fully slotted. Also, see: fiddly.

Thus I have all of 4 powers (plus the web you have to take) all of which augment fire/ while giving me much, MUCH more survivability. This allowed me to take everything in the primary - something I have can only rarely achieve on other toons, and all the power pool selections I really wanted. Unheard of!

I hear your complaints about the set, I really do. I would not take it or recommend it for something like Psi or Sonic, which have their own mitigation. For those, I'd likely suggest a high damage secondary. Fire/ doesn't need a high damage secondary, it just needs a few little things that make it function better and help you survive. Devices has those things.
Sorry, I got lost in here. When /MM came out? I am trying to figure out what it could mean besides Master Mind, and I can't do it. Help? If you did mean Mastermind, I am still lost. Sorry.


Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers

 

Posted

OH! Mental. Yeah, give me 20 minutes, and I can figure out anything.


Global Name: Denver Nugget
Playing since i3 on 8 servers

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
Sadly Super Speed and a Stealth IO pretty much counter Cloaking Device and smoke. I will say if there is a sniper or a Rikti Drone then even I will be noticed. But if I am doing a stealth run even without FFG out my defenses are so high that the minor aggro I get from being spotted by these types of mobs is not an issue. Further I think its a benefit to having an IO save me 2 power slots. But if those things are not present I can Toe bomb effectively as would a Device player.
Great, you don't play the way I do, so Devices doesn't serve your needs. Frankly I find Super Speed to be a huge pain indoors; the stealth on the power is a convenience while traveling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy5 View Post
Sorry, I got lost in here. When /MM came out? I am trying to figure out what it could mean besides Master Mind, and I can't do it. Help? If you did mean Mastermind, I am still lost. Sorry.
Mental Manipulation.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD_Gumby View Post
There are no crap powers in Devices, unless you only think in terms of teaming and speed over safety (I'll gladly take 30s to lay a Time Bomb and follow up with Full Auto just as it's about to explode to wipe out all Minions and LTs, and severely weaken any Bosses, before anything can start to damage me while I'm soloing ).



Yes, we know. But Blasters can't take Traps, so we don't care.
Ahh OZ has spoken. Luckily you don't speak for everyone.

unless you only think in terms of teaming and speed over safety ?

Let me remind you I have a AR Device.. So the reality is your only placing a Time Bomb or Trip Mine at the start of a fight.. Not during a fight..
Whereas my Traps AR Defender or my Sonic Traps Corruptor are placing Time Bombs and Trip Mines at will during any phase of the fight.. I'm soloing 8 setting missions with my Traps toons, so what would be the difference if I am in a team of 8 of players ? It's the same thing.. The only difference is I have 7 other players who are contributing DPS.

While your pulling 1 group at a time, my traps is pulling several. I fire off aoe attacks at other groups just so I don't have to move my lazy backside.

So your point is moot. But you would know that if you weren't kicking and screaming on the floor getting upset that I said something negative about your precious device set.

We should not be sugar coating and trying to pour awesome sauce over a set that just isn't cutting it anymore.. As I already mentioned if your playing device from an Role playing stand point and Traps really can't cut the mustard for you in that department for some strange reason.. Then I get it.. Otherwise game play wise traps delivers what device should be.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

I prefer cloaking device to super speed for most purposes -- better control.

I am not aware of anything in blast sets or elsewhere that does what Time Bomb does, which is let me kill most of a spawn without allowing anything in the spawn to attack me. Time bomb, couple trip mines, and me around a corner = no hassle, just shoot the stragglers.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
I prefer cloaking device to super speed for most purposes -- better control.

I am not aware of anything in blast sets or elsewhere that does what Time Bomb does, which is let me kill most of a spawn without allowing anything in the spawn to attack me. Time bomb, couple trip mines, and me around a corner = no hassle, just shoot the stragglers.
I do agree with you on the control issues of SS indoors in cave missions. Building have a bit more room and visibility that allow SS to traverse it a bit better.. But either way I can agree. But in the face of saving 2 power slots for me its a sacrifice I am willing to take.. Again this is only for stealth runs.. I only stealth run when finishing up the last 3 Tip missions. Otherwise I do the full run for the drops..

Aim Build up and ROA / exploding arrow ( the aoe one ) and the archery cone attack. Sorry I don't recall the names of the powers. But that combo does what time bomb and trip mine(s) does together.. The cone attack is similar to get rid of any stragglers.. Mind you I only have my ROA and exploding arrow only 4 slotted. Further the recharge on these powers are much much faster then what your getting out of Time Bomb.

Which as a reminder Traps has both Time bomb and Trip mine.


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
Great, you don't play the way I do, so Devices doesn't serve your needs. Frankly I find Super Speed to be a huge pain indoors; the stealth on the power is a convenience while traveling.Mental Manipulation.
No your wrong I do play the way you do... With my AR Device toon.. I do nothing different with my AR Device then what everyone else does.. I set up.. I toe bomb and jump back.. I joust mobs to keep them at range where I am capped.. I hover above when I can't to keep them at bay.. I lay down the score of Trip mines before I talk to the contact from the blackcat tip mission. I lay out trip mines during each wave as fast as I can.. I play my Device guy within the scopes that everyone else does..

Again I have no clue how long you been playing.. I started when the game first came out. So for me I have seen the game evolved and things changed. I seen them TRY to make changes to Devices.. But nothing ever came out of Test. It's been always squashed. But crazy enough the stuff they wanted to do for Device instead they gave to VEATS.. How does that work out ?.. Just making Cloaking Device equal to what VEATS has would be super great improvement to Device.

If I didn't like my AR Device I wouldn't have wasted the time or money or respecs I did to update him. Further I wouldn't have wasted the time to post what learned from making the changes.

But today I would wonder myself why should I TODAY take Devices as a secondary.. In TODAY'S game why would I ?.. Look I'm not some FOTM guy. I have no 50 Brutes or Scrappers or Tankers. I have no Fire Kin..

I do have 4 masterminds which have AI issues, beyond any other issues they might have. Heck I have a Earth Rad.. Try to level a toon with NO attacks.. I was jumping for Joy when I got animate rock.. So I'm not some leet player.. like my title says Plainguy.. That's it.. I'm just average player.

So don't get bent out of shape.. Your making a point and I bring up a counter point.. IF you want to fight, that's you.. Not me..

Part of me is not comfortable with the answer well traps is newer and better because of that.. If so and you know it and I know it and others know it..
Then why don't the devs know it ?
Do they care to know it ?
Do they know but just don't care ?
The Devs should be called on the carpet to answer these questions. Not me and you..

Trust me if I was a new player I would be happy this thread is here to read so I can make my own determination. But at least I would know what I am getting into and not beguiled by what I would call a bit misleading info. By misleading I point you to the comment "spending 30s putting down Time Bomb and using FA". But failing to explain depending on your recharge rate it could be several minutes before you can use it again..

Reading that sure it sounds great.. Until you get to the part. Wait, I need to wait 2 minutes for Time Bomb to recharge ? And 2 minutes is with fairly decent rate.. Otherwise your can be close to 3 minutes..

Seebs wrote a great write up on Device.. And in his write up he was great enough to point out the realities of Device.. Which I commended him for it..


1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggy5 View Post
I have two blasters (50 Elec/ and 39 AR/) with devices as a secondary. On both, I wish had chosen something else. Both were created when I had less experience and my reasoning was as follows:
1) I liked that I had a stealth without having to going into the pool to get it because stealthing was important to me then.
2) The targeting drone seemed cool and a way to boost acc.
3) The land mines really appealed to me.

Now after playing many secondaries, I haven't found any reason to like Devices or to think about making another. I am wanting a second opinion, though. Anyone want to give input?
Wish I could give you good reasons to stay with it, but I felt the same way. Deleted a level 47 Energy/Device Blaster last year because I only had 3 powers from my secondary (Web Grenade, Smoke Grenade and Caltrops). Would have been only two powers, except Web Grenade is mandatory.

Here is the crappy part. I tried ALL of the device powers at some point on my road to 47, and slotted them well. It wasnt like I just tried them a couple of times and respecced. What I found was that they were OK. Just OK. Nothing to go wow about. Which is why I eventually deleted him. I miss Caltrops, but Energy/Energy is a boatload more fun to play, and that's the whole point of the game isn't it.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Most blasters I've made I've either deleted or abandoned for a number of reasons. My DP/Dev is the only blaster of mine that has broken level 30, and I like it for both sets. DP needs some buffs, yes, but it's a fun set and is good for both ST and AoE, but that's not the point of this topic.

Dev I find is great for the Cloaking Device and Smoke Grenades. Sure a Traps defender MIGHT be able to use a Stealth IO and Super Speed or a Concealment power to set up bombs and traps, but what if you just want to grab a glowie or shoot an object surrounded by baddies? Smoke Grenade works wonders.

Trip Mine stacked a few times over is great for pesky hard targets, a tought looking group or if you know for a fact an ambush is coming.

Targeting Drone has a lower end cost (Not that much lower, but worth mentioning) and almost double the to hit bonus than Tactics. Sure you don't share it with the team, but that's life.

At the end of the day I do have to admit Dev offers little defense and Smoke Grenades's to hit debuff can't match FFG's defense bonus, but that just means Dev isn't perfect.

Also Dev is a BLASTER only power choice while Traps is avalable to Defenders, Corruptors and Masterminds and all three of them are more about buffs and debuffs. A Blaster is about doing damage, damage and more damage. You have Targeting Drone to make sure your attacks always hit, Trip Mine to lure foes into and Caltrops to keep them out of melee. Cloaking Device and Smoke Grenade offers some defense, but it's all about damage. Defenders cannot do the kind of damage a blaster can, a Mastermind needs his or her minions for damage and a Corruptor can't do Blaster level damage until Scourge kicks in.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
....

Part of me is not comfortable with the answer well traps is newer and better because of that.. If so and you know it and I know it and others know it..
Then why don't the devs know it ?
Do they care to know it ?
Do they know but just don't care ?
The Devs should be called on the carpet to answer these questions. Not me and you..

....

Seebs wrote a great write up on Device.. And in his write up he was great enough to point out the realities of Device.. Which I commended him for it..
So, I am not the only one that went WTF ! when I saw Traps for the first time.

Hehe, it would be very interesting to hear what the DEV's thoughts are on Devices. Perhaps they are letting it die a slow death because it was TOO good at launch and any attempts to fix it would just restore it to those days of former glory.

Stacked Smoke Grenade, we miss you


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by plainguy View Post
So don't get bent out of shape.. Your making a point and I bring up a counter point.. IF you want to fight, that's you.. Not me..
If anything's making me want to fight, it's the double periods. My eyes cannae take much more.

No, I don't want to fight. But Devices is not obsolete. Maybe it doesn't do what you'd like it to do and Traps works better. Great. Traps doesn't do what I want to do; Devices does. And frankly, no other Blaster secondary is appealing. Maybe that means Blasters as a whole need another redesign, but they're far from ineffective.


De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.

 

Posted

So I have a bit of an alt stable right now as the redone sig shows.

My two favorite blasters though? My 50 Ice/dev and the 25 energy/dev.

If I had to pick a way of explaining it? It would be because devices let my blasters do what no other set can. Control the battlefield, control aggro, and as Seebs puts it, it's alpha strike dodging damage dealing with trip mine and time bomb. As the archery combo may do approx or greater damage, but you gotta be standing there the whole time taking hits. and toe bombing into the middle of a fight is a huge blast of aoe damage. Trip mine's damage is also on par with all three crashless nukes, lacks the HoB "standing there like an idiot" hit check everyone seems to enjoy complaining about, and is a lot faster in terms of recharge.

Devices isn't for everyone I'll grant that, and I'll grant you the set could use a few improvements starting with time bomb. If I was gonna pick two off the top of my head, make it's setup time a lot less, and make it ignitable like oil slick arrow. Or able to be set off by a trip mine, imagine the toe bombs then! =p

I'd add to that list gun drone activating as fast as FFG too.

Other blaster sets have a few neat tricks like ice slick, boost range and cones, or drain psyche, but most just boil down to more damage.

But with /ice being the exception not one is gonna let me do something like lay caltrops right on the circle spawns during Posi 1 as they storm out of city hall into a kill zone. Or bunch up spawns for aoe carnage. and /ice can't blind mobs to keep close groups from aggroing, not to mention be able with smoke and cloak to single pull mobs out of a spawn (see again battle control)

It's a blaster set that requires a bit of planning and a bit of thinking to fully leverage, and on a steam roller team yeah I'm mostly limited to smoke and caltrops, along with taser to control my own aggro, throw in the odd mid fight trip mine. But by no means it's an underpowered or lacking set to the point where people shouldn't take it. Specially newer players pushed away from it.

It's like a lot of AT or powerset bias and mostly a matter of taste too. I love the set but I'm not gonna jump down someones throat and yell PLAY IT NOW! Just give it a chance, and if you don't like it that's fine, just don't go bashing it senselessly.