Really we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. But a lot of these comments could easily be turned right around to apply to traps as well as Dev PG
Sure a IO'ed out trap is good, and my generic IO slot dev is not going to be soloing 0/8 I think maybe 0/2 or 0/3 before it just gets tedious. If we're talking reward mentality I'd rather get to the mission complete (and story arc end rewards) faster anyway over killing mobs nonstop. That 344 prestige I'm earning my SG is nice too.
Turn it around though, even with FFG and it's mez resist I seriously doubt any traps corr is going to be soloing 0/8 either with just SO's or 50 generic IO's, it's just not enough defense, nemesis for instance would veng right through you. A defense slotted dev? I'd wager she'd breeze though it with smoke grenades debuff icing on the cake.
Put the two side by side with generics and I'd wager the overall clear time of maps would be pretty much the same. Blasters would have the extra damage. Corrs would have the debuffs of acid and gas trap, plus the extra buff of FFG to help corr's lower damage scale.
Greater damage vs greater survivability, doesn't put one above the other, just a difference in tastes. This doesn't speak to dev being better or traps being superior. All it really speaks to is what I really wish you'd get. It's not the traps making you better it's the IO's.
Look at the set as a whole. You still have your last two powers as trip mine and time bomb (and TB really does need love) How many traps players skip it too?
Regarding trip mine and your comments that a defense cap will be setting them mid fight and a dev won't. Well again that speaks to IO's not traps, would a non def slotted trap be setting them mid fight? But also it's a false assumption. I can walk right up to many mob packs with ease once they aggro on someone else, plant a mine by a scrapper or tank, and boom. Do it all the time.
It's called observation, knowing your mob type (tricky with aoe heavy gangs like nem, cakewalk with crey), and a good sense of timing too. You know those things that fall under the heading of tactics and good game play in the chair over banking on defense sets to do it for you.
Also the dev blaster with smoke and cloak will be toe bombing mobs, something the traps can't pull off.
As for the rest, do you really think (same as dev) a steamroller team is going to need triage beacon? How many mobs are going to be left after the initial aoe blasting to really be affected in the 2-3 seconds you took to set up a fixed acid mortar? If a team already has enough buffs how much is FFG honestly needed past the mez resist for squishies? Or the debuffs seeker drones give?
How often to you expect a team to wait for you to set up gas traps, mortars or mines to lure mobs into when they're gonna plow right through them? It's dev's flaws all over again. Just instead of web, trops and SG being the only things usable it's web, trops, and FFG. At least dev has gun drone (slow as it is in setup time) to add extra damage.
Looking at IO sets? If you aren't going for defense or global recharge (why does no one seem to try and buff up regen though too?) then traps has the same problem as dev does. There's no sets aside from them that will really affect and buff up the powers in traps the way other blaster and corr sets will be affected by bonuses such as enhancing acc, damage, enhance healing powers, or enhance mez times.
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So even if you fired off your biggest AOE attack from ice, mobs still get a chance to hit back, it's just the way the game works. So end result is you could kill the whole spawn and in turn get killed yourself. But with Boost Range that rule no longer holds true. The one issue is you need to have the room to distance yourself away from the mobs to attempt that. Sometimes mobs are right around the corner and boost range is useless in this instance. But when I do have the range which is about 9 time out of 10 I can kill the whole spawn before a Device player even tries to use any of there powers. You wouldn't have a chance to place a trip mine or you would be placing it after the fact.
Regarding the aoe part. Ice isn't known for it's aoe's it's known for ST damage and holds, so lets be honest here. Replace ice with fire primary for instance and I'd wager those mobs might get off one or two attacks at most before the entire spawn is melted, may get hit but it's a moot point when everything is dead.
As for Ice, this is one of those moments where I will be snarky and question your in game knowledge. No ice player would open with a scattering rain or frost breath. I'd start with holds to ensure I'm not getting hit, take over half the spawn (at 0/1-2) out of the fight right off. Pound the non held targets into the ground. Then casually walk over the rest who are probably still frozen. Or just re-hold them, then wash rinse repeat.
And again be honest here, how would a traps corr do the same without getting hit too? More so a non defense slotted one?
As for the boost range part (how did this even enter into the discussion?) every thing you say about dev's drawbacks applies in the exact same manner to traps. Mobs won't be reaching acid mortar or seekers, FFG and triage is pointless when mobs don't get to shoot at you, and you won't be placing trip mines either. So how is this a flaw exclusive to dev that makes the set so lacking compared to others or traps?
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Devices regardless of the IOs still cannot compare because no matter what the IO is offering because the power is lacking. Smoke grenade perception is auto hit and the -ToHit debuff component requires a hit check. It only last 60 seconds. Compared to Traps FFG which can give a team 20 to 25 % Defense increase along with hold and other resistances. On top have you ever seen mobs try to kill a FFG ? It takes a bunch of mobs before that thing goes down. I use it sometimes just to take aggro and I walk in and just resummon another so I have the steady flow of defenses. The down side it is a bit slow to react to your movements. So if your rush in you will loose some defense for several seconds.
You know I find it funny you want to try and argue traps superiority again on a single comparison between two powers, given you said just above.
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We clearly cannot say that power X is better then Power Y because each has there own tactic or strategy.
Never mind that FFG also won't let you stealth pull single mobs from a pack too. You know, that tactics and strategy thing again.
And again be honest. Looking at the newest updated MIDS FFG gives 15.85% fully enhanced for defense. And zero resistance to any damage type, just mag 7 mez resists to hold root and stun. Moot point for me though as I'll hold any mezzer before they can think of shooting at me. As for smoke only lasting 60 seconds? Name me one fight that lasts longer then that, never mind that smoke has a 15 sec recharge and would be reapplied long before that timer ran out. Another case of where you seem to have little knowledge of how the real game works when you stop looking at numbers PG.
As for pulling aggro with FFG, I can do the same with gun drone and it shoots back, takes a lot to bring it down too.
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All these AT have there ups and downs, beyond the fun factor persay of device it has too many downs compared to other sets.
A lot of the same ones I could easily say traps has once you pull IO's out of the mix. Yet also the same buffs dev gets when you throw them in. You're really too willing to ignore the many negatives of traps and positive aspects of dev in the process too. The two sets a lot more similar then I think you'd care to admit.
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End result you have to look at the whole thing today not just the AT because IOs do make a difference regardless if the game is balanced around SOs. This is why a Dominator is soloing Master TFs.
And that screams to me that IO's really are overpowering AT's to do things they shouldn't be allowed to do regardless of time and money needed to actually pull it off. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised if defense sets do suffer a nerf down the line because of it.
Really we're gonna have to agree to disagree here. But a lot of these comments could easily be turned right around to apply to traps as well as Dev PG
Sure a IO'ed out trap is good, and my generic IO slot dev is not going to be soloing 0/8 I think maybe 0/2 or 0/3 before it just gets tedious. If we're talking reward mentality I'd rather get to the mission complete (and story arc end rewards) faster anyway over killing mobs nonstop. That 344 prestige I'm earning my SG is nice too.
Turn it around though, even with FFG and it's mez resist I seriously doubt any traps corr is going to be soloing 0/8 either with just SO's or 50 generic IO's, it's just not enough defense, nemesis for instance would veng right through you. A defense slotted dev? I'd wager she'd breeze though it with smoke grenades debuff icing on the cake.
Put the two side by side with generics and I'd wager the overall clear time of maps would be pretty much the same. Blasters would have the extra damage. Corrs would have the debuffs of acid and gas trap, plus the extra buff of FFG to help corr's lower damage scale.
Greater damage vs greater survivability, doesn't put one above the other, just a difference in tastes. This doesn't speak to dev being better or traps being superior. All it really speaks to is what I really wish you'd get. It's not the traps making you better it's the IO's.
Look at the set as a whole. You still have your last two powers as trip mine and time bomb (and TB really does need love) How many traps players skip it too?
Regarding trip mine and your comments that a defense cap will be setting them mid fight and a dev won't. Well again that speaks to IO's not traps, would a non def slotted trap be setting them mid fight? But also it's a false assumption. I can walk right up to many mob packs with ease once they aggro on someone else, plant a mine by a scrapper or tank, and boom. Do it all the time.
It's called observation, knowing your mob type (tricky with aoe heavy gangs like nem, cakewalk with crey), and a good sense of timing too. You know those things that fall under the heading of tactics and good game play in the chair over banking on defense sets to do it for you.
Also the dev blaster with smoke and cloak will be toe bombing mobs, something the traps can't pull off.
As for the rest, do you really think (same as dev) a steamroller team is going to need triage beacon? How many mobs are going to be left after the initial aoe blasting to really be affected in the 2-3 seconds you took to set up a fixed acid mortar? If a team already has enough buffs how much is FFG honestly needed past the mez resist for squishies? Or the debuffs seeker drones give?
How often to you expect a team to wait for you to set up gas traps, mortars or mines to lure mobs into when they're gonna plow right through them? It's dev's flaws all over again. Just instead of web, trops and SG being the only things usable it's web, trops, and FFG. At least dev has gun drone (slow as it is in setup time) to add extra damage.
Looking at IO sets? If you aren't going for defense or global recharge (why does no one seem to try and buff up regen though too?) then traps has the same problem as dev does. There's no sets aside from them that will really affect and buff up the powers in traps the way other blaster and corr sets will be affected by bonuses such as enhancing acc, damage, enhance healing powers, or enhance mez times.
As for Ice, this is one of those moments where I will be snarky and question your in game knowledge. No ice player would open with a scattering rain or frost breath. I'd start with holds to ensure I'm not getting hit, take over half the spawn (at 0/1-2) out of the fight right off. Pound the non held targets into the ground. Then casually walk over the rest who are probably still frozen. Or just re-hold them, then wash rinse repeat.
And again be honest here, how would a traps corr do the same without getting hit too? More so a non defense slotted one?
As for the boost range part (how did this even enter into the discussion?) every thing you say about dev's drawbacks applies in the exact same manner to traps. Mobs won't be reaching acid mortar or seekers, FFG and triage is pointless when mobs don't get to shoot at you, and you won't be placing trip mines either. So how is this a flaw exclusive to dev that makes the set so lacking compared to others or traps?
And again be honest. Looking at the newest updated MIDS FFG gives 15.85% fully enhanced for defense. And zero resistance to any damage type, just mag 7 mez resists to hold root and stun. Moot point for me though as I'll hold any mezzer before they can think of shooting at me. As for smoke only lasting 60 seconds? Name me one fight that lasts longer then that, never mind that smoke has a 15 sec recharge and would be reapplied long before that timer ran out. Another case of where you seem to have little knowledge of how the real game works when you stop looking at numbers PG.
As for pulling aggro with FFG, I can do the same with gun drone and it shoots back, takes a lot to bring it down too.