Jade, my only grip about the Emblems on this game is that they actually FLOAT a little above the skin of the model... its just like they are on a second mesh of the model.
Test this:
Make a female model. Basic slider position for average.
Place an emblem.
Now adjust the chest slider... youll see that you actually can place something between the symbol and the skin/base texture.
Its floating.
** Guardian�s Crazy Catgirl **
************* 22 XxX 10 *************
Yes. I can get lost on a straight-line map.
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Yes, Three genders. Male, Female, and Put your pants back on your scaring the cat. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Three?
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Nope, check the toilet doors in the base editor (and a couple of world locations as well). "Huge" is considered a distinct gender in the CoX-verse.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
In other words, another male
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That's only because their facilities have to be SO much sturdier... |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Nope, check the toilet doors in the base editor (and a couple of world locations as well). "Huge" is considered a distinct gender in the CoX-verse.
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And thank KayJMM, while I can't really explain why it's doing that, I hadn't really noticed.
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Right here:|
Originally Posted by GreatRock
Gah. SInce when did I say they didn't exist?
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| Real girls, in real life, don't have breasts that big |
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| You know, .001 of the world is a hell of a lot of people. Just saying. .001 of a billion is one million. That's a million people with big boobs per billion. And that's a lot of people. |
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Male, Female, and Huge? Given that there were separate bathrooms in city hall for each, one might say Huge is its own gender. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Three?
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Yup.|
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Male, Female, and Huge? Given that there were separate bathrooms in city hall for each, one might say Huge is its own gender.
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Not to mention i've read material from the Devs about the character/costume designer where the three model types are referred as genders.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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But in RL life, there are often 3rd bathrooms for disabled people to use - that doesn't make them a separate gender |
Originally Posted by Tyger42
Male, Female, and Huge? Given that there were separate bathrooms in city hall for each, one might say Huge is its own gender.
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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You do realize that gender can be a technical term that does not always refer to a binary choice between layout and type of reproductive organs and other sexual characteristics, right? Gender in regards to the three character models is not solely referring to whether they have bulbous breasts.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But in RL life, there are often 3rd bathrooms for disabled people to use - that doesn't make them a separate gender
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Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
I wish we could adjust the men's (and women's) body types so we could have out of shape heroes or even Blob-style villians.
Back in the day, when Lee & Kirby first created the Fan4, they weren't muscluar at all. Just regular body types.
Wow, I opened up a can of worms.
Sorry GG, it's just that 90+% of female bad guys are portrayed in the media (TV, movies, comics) as over sexualized in both body proportions and dress. And I'm talking the women who when they first appear seem to have the words "HI I'M EVIL" flashing over their heads or at least a "HI I'M UNTRUSTWORTHY".
It's very much like when Jessica Rabbit says "I'm not evil, I'm just drawn that way". She is designed around the classic femme fatale model. You may not like it but that usually means overly sexualized. Now if you don't like the fact that I equate the word "slutty" (of, resembling, or characteristic of a ****) with an over sexualized appearance, I'm sorry I didn't invent the stereotype, I just reference it.
Elephants are gray, not all gray animals are elephants.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Then they realized, you know for people who work out a lot, they seem out of shape?
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Originally Posted by AncientSpirit_NA
I wish we could adjust the men's (and women's) body types so we could have out of shape heroes or even Blob-style villians.
Back in the day, when Lee & Kirby first created the Fan4, they weren't muscluar at all. Just regular body types. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Well, how many scientists do you know of that routinely hit up the treadmill? I can't imagine that Reed had much time to go to the gym with all the experiments and research he was doing. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Then they realized, you know for people who work out a lot, they seem out of shape?
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They were drawn as regular people because, before they got their powers, they WERE regular people.
I'd be all for a boob slider that goes lower on the scale. Could be a game lore reasoning behind why it doesn't. I'd imagine to get a license to be a hero in this city you'd have to be 18 (or possibly have some way of proving that you're an immortal who looks like a 10 year old, but are actually centuries old)
I had a female character for a while who was on the completely unrealistic side of things. She was an avatar of the sun itself, and chose her physical form based on a poster in the window of a Victoria's Secret store. She proportioned herself like that because she thought that's what ALL humans looked like. She still doesn't understand the difference in gender, or why the ones with fur on their faces keep staring at her. (I only say "her" because the character is a female model, the character doesn't actually have a gender at all)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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If people from Japan are complaining about unrealistic boob size in this game, have they never watched their own media? I'm pretty sure animators there have to take a "boob physics" class.|
Originally Posted by Mandu
That's like somebody from Japan complaining that the boobs are unrealistic because none of the women they know are even as large as the smallest setting. Environment alters perceptions of normality.
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Originally Posted by Impish Kat
Oh dear lordy... the many directions this could go...
 . |
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Say what?
That makes no sense AT ALL. The clothes you are wearing is one of the main things that determines your physical appearance. |
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
Michael Jackson would beg to differ on the skin.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Forum threads are living things. And to be fair, the "Slutty" discussion was centered around bewbies.|
Originally Posted by GreatRock
Also. Guys. Since when is this a thread about slutty looks? I just wanted more realistic proportions, never once did I say that boobs = bad. I just expressed distaste with how they were rendering, but did not insinuate that I don't like people with big boobies. If you guys want to have an argument about how to make yourself a ****, then, sure, but let's stay on topic, shall we?
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Three?
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Wow, I opened up a can of worms.
Sorry GG, it's just that 90+% of female bad guys are portrayed in the media (TV, movies, comics) as over sexualized in both body proportions and dress. And I'm talking the women who when they first appear seem to have the words "HI I'M EVIL" flashing over their heads or at least a "HI I'M UNTRUSTWORTHY". |
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Do you want to bet? Do you honestly want to bet that I'm not a programmer?|
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
People are talking amongst themselves about a different topic. No one's berating on your on the whole 'slutty' discussion. It's more about someone saying something, and someone else taking offense, and everyone telling her she's being silly, and her denying it.  You do not know how hard or easy it would be to implement this. You're not a programmer. You're not a designer. You're not a 3D Modelling artist. And last but not least, you do not work in Paragon Studios to have any clue on how the game engine functions.  You do not know how this game works, and how such features would be implemented, and whether or not they would affect other parts of the game, and whether or not the majority would embrace the additions. You're not a programmer. You're not a designer. You're not a 3D Modelling artist. And last but not least, you do not work in Paragon Studios to have any clue on how the game engine functions. It's CLIPPING. Not "clicking". Clipping is when a part of a geometry collides and is inserted into another geometry (or itself) and hence part of it is "clipped" from the rendering pipeline, and would not be rendered. Okay. Awesome suggestions! I would love new hairstyles! I'm hoping Issue 20 comes with more customization options, as David N. hinted at revamp of old costume pieces at some point! You do not know how hard or easy it would be to implement this. You're not a programmer. You're not a designer. You're not a 3D Modelling artist. And last but not least, you do not work in Paragon Studios to have any clue on how the game engine functions. And finally, all you're stating are various suggestions that you, personally, would like to see in the game. Why did you make this thread here and not in the Suggestions Forum? And if that's true, why is your thread titled "remarkable issues" and your original post labels the lack of these features flaws and issues with the game?! I do not get this! Even you don't know what this "thread is about"! xD |
'Cause I do. I really do. What about this, I pull the links for the three games I've made, and THEN you can reconsider. And I use clicking as slang for clipping. It sounds the same in my mind. Alright? Yeesh.
And, my remarkable issue was that I was remarking about the remarkable size of the cleavage in this remarkable game, and said size was an issue for me because I wanted more manly girls. Thus, a remarkable issue.
Any questions?
Do you know how redering works? I'm just asking, do you? YOu realize pulling the files for a muscular male then overlaying it on top of a female model, then merging the render and cutting the insides out is relatively easy, right?
And no, I don't work at Paragon. No, I don't know how the game works. But yes, I am a programmer, yes, I know how easy or hard something would be to render, and yes, you need to read what I've said before commenting.
@Rien
I am Lord Omi. Now and forever. They can take our City, but they can't take me.
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You're unbelievable. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
You can choose what types of clothes you wear - you can't choose what size your chest is.
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I'll explain it as simply as I can.
If you assume that someone is a criminal based on the clothes they are wearing, you are judging them based on appearance, without knowing anything else about them.
If you assume that a woman has loose morals based on the size of her chest, you are judging her based on her appearance, without knowing anything else about her.
They are the exact same thing: Judging someone based on their appearance.
So, since they are the same thing, your stance is: It is okay to judge someone by their appearance, but it isn't okay to judge someone by their appearance.
I agree that you shouldn't assume a woman has loose morals because of her chest size. But it is just as wrong to assume someone is good or bad because of the clothing they are wearing. That's the point you seem to have completely missed.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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This. I've noticed the exact same thing, GG. You really go out of my way to disagree with everyone, just for the sake of disagreeing, don't you.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
So, since they are the same thing, your stance is: It is okay to judge someone by their appearance, but it isn't okay to judge someone by their appearance. |
@Rien
I am Lord Omi. Now and forever. They can take our City, but they can't take me.
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The big thing is, since you don't work at Paragon, you don't know what kind of baggage they have. But no offense was intened to you - we frequently get people saying "That would be easy to do!" without knowing what would need to be done, because not only are they not a programmer/etc, they are not one working at Paragon Studios.|
Originally Posted by GreatRock
Do you want to bet? Do you honestly want to bet that I'm not a programmer?
'Cause I do. I really do. What about this, I pull the links for the three games I've made, and THEN you can reconsider. And I use clicking as slang for clipping. It sounds the same in my mind. Alright? Yeesh. And, my remarkable issue was that I was remarking about the remarkable size of the cleavage in this remarkable game, and said size was an issue for me because I wanted more manly girls. Thus, a remarkable issue. Any questions? Do you know how redering works? I'm just asking, do you? YOu realize pulling the files for a muscular male then overlaying it on top of a female model, then merging the render and cutting the insides out is relatively easy, right? And no, I don't work at Paragon. No, I don't know how the game works. But yes, I am a programmer, yes, I know how easy or hard something would be to render, and yes, you need to read what I've said before commenting. |
As a computer term, clipping is well know for being what it is - clicking however is something you do with a mouse; at least that is how most would see it. And how close they are... makes it sound like you were repeating something slightly wrong.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Clipping vs clicking... It was a personal slang of mine. I suppose there could be some confusion, but I didn't realize this when I posted it. I just say clicking, cause, it would seem like they click together or something. Or something.
I'm kind of amazed this thread has gotten so much review. Usually my questions go unanswered.
The only real thing that I want changed is to make your heroes more realistic. And I know, this is an unrealistic game, but that doesn't mean I'd like to be just like Omi. Even though he's a guy. It really bugs me how silly the females look when we're kicking ****, and that issue I pinned down to the boob size. Sure, the arms are small, too. I just tend to see those things first.
@Rien
I am Lord Omi. Now and forever. They can take our City, but they can't take me.
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It is a popular topic, not least because it has been an occasional (maybe frequent) topic over the years. I have to assume there is some sort of technical reason it has not been addressed, given how nice it would be if I was a Dev just to prevent conversations like this from popping up. But assumptions are risky things.|
Originally Posted by GreatRock
I'm kind of amazed this thread has gotten so much review. Usually my questions go unanswered.
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My stance is firmly on the side of:
- an expanded range of options for body and costume styles in CoH would be welcomed
- a person's opinion can only be as informed as the knowledge and experience they have encountered
- a person's opinion is valid at all times, maybe more so if they admit a bias - which implies an openness to continue to be better informed
- attacking an opinion is bad form, seeking to help inform an opinion is the way forward
<related aside>
I had the opportunity many years ago to contribute to a school paper of a coworker's daughter. She was not familiar with comics, but needed some to read for a college paper, I loaned her a series of my collection to read as background material. The angle was originally, as I understood it, related to morality in media.
The paper became instead a tear down of modern sexism in comics due to the unrealistic nature of female depiction: from the heroic ones (and their impossible clothing selections for combat) to the critical supporting civilians who all looked like they had come out of factory. It prompted an interesting discussion, where I tried to indicate she had an opportunity to further shift the paper's point. I included observations about how most young men cannot hope to look like their heroic comic counterparts, either. I also tried to debunk part of her main thesis: namely the modern angle: Athena was a goddess of war commonly recognized for beauty, with just a helmet tossed on while wearing flowing robes - it seemed to me to be at least related and more of an ancient issue of depictions of strong women.
In fact, I went farther and tried to suggestion that perhaps it was an issue of storytelling and depictions of icons, of bigger/better/more, of the perfect image in all respects. And maybe, maybe, it was more important to explore that continued and consistent desire in human civilization. She wouldn't hear my arguments and submitted the paper as it was. I always felt like I failed that paper for some reason...
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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And just to add some further information. Several years ago there was a particularly obnoxious poster on the forums by the name of KittyKrusader who religously professed to be the font of all knowledge when it came to programming because she used to write code for NWN. Her attitude is one of the ones that helped form the negative reaction people here still get when they see someone say they are a programmer or that they know how easy something would be to put in the game.|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
The big thing is, since you don't work at Paragon, you don't know what kind of baggage they have. But no offense was intened to you - we frequently get people saying "That would be easy to do!" without knowing what would need to be done, because not only are they not a programmer/etc, they are not one working at Paragon Studios.
As a computer term, clipping is well know for being what it is - clicking however is something you do with a mouse; at least that is how most would see it. And how close they are... makes it sound like you were repeating something slightly wrong. |
The "I'm a programmer" phrase has the unfortunate effect of putting people that remember Kitty on edge and unconsciously defensive.
(If Kitty has 50 posts left that haven't been deleted by the mods I'd be surprised)
No offense GreatRock, but the only people I listen to when it comes to the coding of this game are the ones actually working with that code. (in other words, the devs)
You've programmed a few games, which is awesome for your age, but that doesn't mean you know how THIS game is programmed. You probably know more about video game programming than I do, I freely admit that. But I doubt rather a lot that you have experience with something as complex as this game has to be by it's very nature, since the only way you would have experience with something this complex is if you worked for a video game company, and I've never heard of one that will hire a 15 year old.
(Happy Birthday BTW)
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
We are dealing with a couple of things here. First of all, we have a wireframe "mesh", over which a texture is applied. The wireframe shapes the way the texture is stretched, and so the texture itself, if viewed flat, is distorted. Typically when a computer editor builds an avatar, it lays layers of images over a texture, and whatever is in front "shows through". Thus, for instance, the chest symbol is very likely "painted" on top of the body texture and thus is the final layer that ends up visible, even though they are technically all at the same depth.
Complicating this, the CoH editor apparently also lays color information on top of the textures. Thus, for instance, if you have a Tops with Skin option, the texture is that of skin, but the color is of a shirt or top or whatever. The chest symbol may be somewhat the same thing, although it appears to at least lay a solid texture down as well. But the colors of the symbol are customizable because you can lay that down as a layer too.
Now, you come to the situation of a shirt over the upper body, or a shoulder decoration or belt that can clip. This is placed over the body, and is itself a wireframe, with its own textures and layers. That normally has to be placed outward somewhat of the body, so parts of the body mesh don't stick through the accessory during animation. That's what's meant by "clipping".
Anyway, I'm fairly sure than unless the symbol is itself on a jacket or shirt, which it can be, it can't clip. It is distorted by being formed to the shape of the wireframe, but it shouldn't be able to clip.
OTOH, changing the dimensions of the chest, or the arms, certainly would cause clipping. Because any accessories placed over those models would also have to have their dimensions changed as well. That's effectively what the sliders do, and in essense the sliders have to adjust every single wireframe that is used by your character, from chest and arms and legs to shirts and jackets worn over the body, shoulder decorations and capes to even the powers you use, such as Stone Armor's rock layers.