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To be honest, even tho she used the phrase "pisses me off" I didn't find anything in GreatRocks original post remotely hostile. Some venting sure, but not hostile.
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
If it's just a question, why is your original post so hostile?
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To put it in a metaphor:
I am a guitarist, and a halfway decent one. I could tell you how easy it is to write a song for a 4 piece band consisting of 2 guitars, bass and drums.
That does NOT mean I could tell you how easy it is to write a piece of music for a 120 piece symphony orchestra. At least not with any credibility.
Yes, I have experience writing music, but I don't have experience writing music on such a huge scale. And I know better than to claim that I can.
Game programming is the same way. I'm sure you could explain how to program a smaller game, and probably rather well at that, but that doesn't give you enough experience to explain how to program an MMO.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'm a programmer, and I've been dragged into other peoples' existing projects enough to say, with confidence:
I have no clue at all how easy or hard it would be to make various changes to the boob sliders. And no one else who hasn't seen the code knows either.
Feel free to engage in comparisons of programming credentials if you want. I am pretty sure all the other sufficiently experienced programmers will agree, though, without seeing the code and really understanding it, it's not very useful to speculate on how easy or hard it would be to change a given feature.
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Even seeing the code doesn't help sometimes.
Originally Posted by seebs
Feel free to engage in comparisons of programming credentials if you want. I am pretty sure all the other sufficiently experienced programmers will agree, though, without seeing the code and really understanding it, it's not very useful to speculate on how easy or hard it would be to change a given feature.
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I have about two years' experience on a project where I got brought in sorta late.|
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Even seeing the code doesn't help sometimes. |
I submitted a representative sample of the previous guy's code and got the front page of the Daily WTF.
I have one piece of advice for everyone out there: If the guy who designed the schema says "all fields are VARCHAR for simplicity", run.
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Perhaps 'hostile' was an unsuitable choice of word. What I meant was that the original post was rather aggressive and assertive. I came into the thread expecting a technical issue of some sort and a maybe a major flaw in the game, and the player having a question about how to solve it.
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
To be honest, even tho she used the phrase "pisses me off" I didn't find anything in GreatRocks original post remotely hostile. Some venting sure, but not hostile.
Instead the player introduced a number of things that bothered her personally as "issues" with the game that need to be solved, while sounding incredibly insecure about it all, and then proposing a list of solutions that would be "very easy to implement" and the tone suggests that she's simply blaming the lack of these options on ignorance and inconsideration of developers.
That's how the original post came off to me. It was a complaint, followed by a poorly thought-out solution, followed by the assertion that the particular solution would 'fix' an otherwise broken game.
It's the difference of saying "How dare they not allow us to do such and such?! I have an issue with this flaw!" rather than "I would like to have such and such features in the game!"
And yes. After she cleared up some questions, I did cut her some slack. But then she keeps changing the context and purpose of her original post, threatens someone to die in a fire, and then tells people that she knows how to implement these features and they're easy as pie to implement cause she's written 3 games.
At this point, I don't even know what to say anymore! 
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It's not the same thing at all - like Statesman and Reichsman are the same, but the way they dress shows that one is a Hero and the other is a Villain, even though their bodies are the same - they've both chosen the way they dress, but they have no choice about their body.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You're unbelievable.
I'll explain it as simply as I can. If you assume that someone is a criminal based on the clothes they are wearing, you are judging them based on appearance, without knowing anything else about them. If you assume that a woman has loose morals based on the size of her chest, you are judging her based on her appearance, without knowing anything else about her. They are the exact same thing: Judging someone based on their appearance. So, since they are the same thing, your stance is: It is okay to judge someone by their appearance, but it isn't okay to judge someone by their appearance. I agree that you shouldn't assume a woman has loose morals because of her chest size. But it is just as wrong to assume someone is good or bad because of the clothing they are wearing. That's the point you seem to have completely missed. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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No it wasn't - the post was aggressively boobist and hostile to curves |
Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Perhaps 'hostile' was an unsuitable choice of word. |
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Seriously, if you've written a few Applet games for the web, or have some sort of rendering software on your computer than you like to play with (like GG apparently does |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
No offense GreatRock, but the only people I listen to when it comes to the coding of this game are the ones actually working with that code. (in other words, the devs)
You've programmed a few games, which is awesome for your age, but that doesn't mean you know how THIS game is programmed. You probably know more about video game programming than I do, I freely admit that. But I doubt rather a lot that you have experience with something as complex as this game has to be by it's very nature, since the only way you would have experience with something this complex is if you worked for a video game company, and I've never heard of one that will hire a 15 year old. |
) that's great. But I would be very surprised to find any 15 year old has been hired by a serious company to work on commertial software. Game or otherwise. And this coming from someone who at 15 also called himself a "programmer" and was coding games for the Commodore 64...So far I haven't really found anything about your posts to criticise, but you're just opening yourself up to be made fun of, there.
I'll also expand on Claws' metaphor. Maybe you know about how to play the guitar, and maybe you can even repair it if something breaks. Maybe you can even replace the pickups and keys and choose the best strings for the sound you want. But that doesn't mean you know how to BUILD a guitar. Much less make it the quality of a Stratocaster.
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Well, duh, the Evil Goatee gives it away, every time...|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's not the same thing at all - like Statesman and Reichsman are the same, but the way they dress shows that one is a Hero and the other is a Villain, even though their bodies are the same - they've both chosen the way they dress, but they have no choice about their body.
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(And yeah, I know Reichsman has no goatee... he doesn't have a goatee, does he?)
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You know. I want to argue with you. I want to tell you how shallow and judgmental your view on peoples' appearances and its relation to their morality is. I want to prove to you how hypocritical your sound and how everything you say on these topics come off as double standards...
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's not the same thing at all - like Statesman and Reichsman are the same, but the way they dress shows that one is a Hero and the other is a Villain, even though their bodies are the same - they've both chosen the way they dress, but they have no choice about their body.
But I know that you will simply not budge. You're padding your post count, and disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing (as someone mentioned).
So I'm just gonna smile and nod! Yup! You're right! Statesman and Reichsman are the same, but the way they dress shows that one is a Hero and the other is a Villain, even though their bodies are the same - they've both chosen the way they dress, but they have no choice about their body. I fully agree with you and say that you speak sound and valid logic. You're also consistent in your opinions and are a paragon of non-discriminative behavior, along with great reading comprehension and great self-confidence in your image and what you represent. Yup! I wish I could be more like you!
Just smile and nod, guys!
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While that is one option to deal with posts that aren't worth reading I tend to take a more final approach.
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Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
You know. I want to argue with you. I want to tell you how shallow and judgmental your view on peoples' appearances and its relation to their morality is. I want to prove to you how hypocritical your sound and how everything you say on these topics come off as double standards... But I know that you will simply not budge. You're padding your post count, and disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing (as someone mentioned). So I'm just gonna smile and nod! Yup! You're right! Statesman and Reichsman are the same, but the way they dress shows that one is a Hero and the other is a Villain, even though their bodies are the same - they've both chosen the way they dress, but they have no choice about their body. I fully agree with you and say that you speak sound and valid logic. You're also consistent in your opinions and are a paragon of non-discriminative behavior, along with great reading comprehension and great self-confidence in your image and what you represent. Yup! I wish I could be more like you! Just smile and nod, guys! |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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They didn't choose what they wear. The Devs did. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's not the same thing at all - like Statesman and Reichsman are the same, but the way they dress shows that one is a Hero and the other is a Villain, even though their bodies are the same - they've both chosen the way they dress, but they have no choice about their body.
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Of course they didn't have any choice about their body. The Devs made that too, which they could have changed if they wanted to.
You can keep repeating the same thing over an over again and ignore the posts that have proved you wrong, but that doesn't make you right. By now, the thread is so offtopic that we're not even talking about the same offtopic issue that you originally started by putting words into somebody else's mouth and looking at it from the wrong perspective. lol
All we said is if we made a slutty toon, we'd give her a large chest. That does not imply that all people with a large chest are slutty, thus nothing to take offense to.
To borrow the analogy from Father Xmas, if I drew an elephant, I'd make it gray. That in no way implies that all gray animals are elephants, but I'm sure you are going to come to the defense of all gray animals everywhere and say they are offended, right? lol
Nobody is judging the elephant for being gray. I simply made it gray because it's an elephant.
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For a 3D modeller, this would be easy. For a 3D animator, this would also be mostly irrelevant. On the one hand, this would introduce a ton of problems: problems with the new mesh interfering with female top costumes with actual geometry instead of just textures, issues with placement of shoulder items and actual arms (which are segmented from the body), and probably issues with integration with the body sliders. On the other hand, if your focus is on cleavage, why not simply adjust the geometry of the actual female breasts, which are themselves somewhat independent geometry as they have to be to work with the chest sliders. You're going to have to do that anyway, as the male and female chest sliders don't exactly do the same things.|
Originally Posted by GreatRock
Do you know how redering works? I'm just asking, do you? YOu realize pulling the files for a muscular male then overlaying it on top of a female model, then merging the render and cutting the insides out is relatively easy, right?
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I'm assuming an experienced games programmer with knowledge of 3D animation rigs would know all of this. And before you ask, its safe to say I have a pretty good understanding of how this specific game works, and that includes the animation system.
Incidentally, against my better judgment I actually analyzed the female chest geometry a while ago in reference to another thread about this subject, and discovered that at the lowest the chest slider would go the female breasts were about an inch above the chest in relative scale inches, for a standard height model. They were maybe a B-cup in volume, although that was an estimate (its not like I can have them try on bras to be sure). What makes them look larger than that is partially texturing, and partially the fact that the female torso has a significant arch forward. The model would probably look like it had more than A-cup breasts even if you literally removed the breasts due to that arch.
Personally, I don't have any problem with increasing the range of the chest slider to further decrease the size of the female chest. However, I don't think that will always have exactly the effect some people think it will, especially given how much the appearance of cleavage is often due to visual textures and not geometry, which can't be so easily messed with. Adding a more muscular torso, though, would almost certainly require adding a new model in the general case. It would be too much of a pain to add it to the existing model and keep everything else consistent. As for the rest of the thread, good luck with that.
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You are STILL judging them by their appearance. |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
It's not the same thing at all - like Statesman and Reichsman are the same, but the way they dress shows that one is a Hero and the other is a Villain, even though their bodies are the same - they've both chosen the way they dress, but they have no choice about their body.
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Whether their appearance is by their choice or not is completely irrelevant, as it is not THEIR actions that are the problem.
YOUR actions are the problem, specifically the action of JUDGING THEM BECAUSE OF HOW THEY LOOK.
Whether you judge someone by their clothes, or the size of their chest you are doing the same exact thing: Judging them by something about their appearance.
Of course this is going to fall on deaf ears though, because you are so convinced of your own moral superiority that you seem to think it gives you the right to judge people based solely on what they look like. It doesn't, and only pure arrogance makes anyone think it does. And yes, that makes you JUST as bad as anything you accused Master-Blade of doing. Pure hypocrisy.
Have a nice day, you've proven time and time again that you will twist anything to mean whatever you want it to mean just to avoid being proven wrong. News flash: You HAVE been proven wrong several times in this thread, and everyone sees it except you.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I blame Arcana for making me analyze female chest geometries. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
...against my better judgment I actually analyzed the female chest geometry
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And for padding her post count. >.>
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This got me to thinking how cool it would be if we could make our characters appear according to our designs in a solid full scale form. I have a "werewolf" I'd love to put on my front porch at Halloween.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Incidentally, against my better judgment I actually analyzed the female chest geometry a while ago in reference to another thread about this subject, and discovered that at the lowest the chest slider would go the female breasts were about an inch above the chest in relative scale inches, for a standard height model. They were maybe a B-cup in volume, although that was an estimate (its not like I can have them try on bras to be sure). What makes them look larger than that is partially texturing, and partially the fact that the female torso has a significant arch forward. The model would probably look like it had more than A-cup breasts even if you literally removed the breasts due to that arch.
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I blame Star Trek for my flights of fancy like this.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Hey all. This thread has gotten a lot of polarized responses, and I've seen some good comments and suggestions, but the thread isn't going anywhere constructive so I'm going to have to lock it.
Large breasts are--for better or worse--a staple of the superhero genre of comic books. City of Heroes, being a game that takes its inspiration from comic books, gives you the option to emulate the (sometimes overly) well-endowed characters from the medium. Conversely, if you want your female character to have a more modest chest size, the slider allows you to do that as well. I've seen suggestions in this thread to let the slider go further in both ways; if you feel that's something that you might be interested in, let me know and I'll pass it along.
With regards to the issue of more costume options for females, and the placement/size of chest emblems, if you'd like to start a new thread on that, please feel free to. The character creator is one of the things that makes City of Heroes what it is, and I know you all love more options. So please, any suggestions you have about that, feel free to make a new thread about it.
If there's any other opinions you have about the chest slider issue, also feel free to drop me a line.
'Cause I do. I really do. What about this, I pull the links for the three games I've made, and THEN you can reconsider. And I use clicking as slang for clipping. It sounds the same in my mind. Alright? Yeesh.
And, my remarkable issue was that I was remarking about the remarkable size of the cleavage in this remarkable game, and said size was an issue for me because I wanted more manly girls. Thus, a remarkable issue.
Any questions?
Do you know how redering works? I'm just asking, do you? YOu realize pulling the files for a muscular male then overlaying it on top of a female model, then merging the render and cutting the insides out is relatively easy, right?
And no, I don't work at Paragon. No, I don't know how the game works. But yes, I am a programmer, yes, I know how easy or hard something would be to render, and yes, you need to read what I've said before commenting.
Okay. So you're bringing up an issue and a complaint. You're putting fault in something, and people disagree with you. Why do you claim "I'm just asking a question"? Why is your thread in the Questions forum?
If it's just a question, why is your original post so hostile?