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New and interesting direction? What show were you watching? Cuz it sure wasn't SGU. SGU was nothing more than a retelling of the same old "we're lost and can't get home" story that has been told dozens of times in other shows.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Really? Is that what all people want these days is just retreads of stuff that came before? SGU took the franchise in a new, interesting direction and it turns out people just want retellings of earlier plots.
Dear lord.... |
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Voyager has nothing in common with SGU save the "far away from home" bit. Voyager was a carbon copy of TNG and a pretty baneful and poor carbon copy at that. It wasted a perfectly good premise and gave us impervious, flawless characters on an impervious, flawless ship.|
Originally Posted by Veritech
the 'new and interesting' direction took everything that was wrong with Voyager and the new Battlestar Galactica and dropped it into a successful franchise. so id rather get some more familiar trappings for a Stargate movie than see more of what SG:U has been crapping out.
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And what was wrong with the new BSG? I liked the new BSG.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
If you actually liked that load of tripe that was SG:U, then I think I'm the one who gets to say "Dear Lord".
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
New and interesting direction? What show were you watching? Cuz it sure wasn't SGU. SGU was nothing more than a retelling of the same old "we're lost and can't get home" story that has been told dozens of times in other shows.
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I liked SG-1 and Atlantis, but I'd be pretty disappointed if they repeated the same formula for a THIRD time. When you retread the same premise over and over and over within a franchise, you wind up with Star Trek and its hackeyed recycling of old plots.
Okay I like SGU. Each of the SG series had its merits. No show is perfect.
Hey if you want me to sound weird. I also liked star trek enterprise. It was okay. And was getting good before it too got canceled but the whole reason that happened cause it was screwed from the beginning. And if memory serves me right what happened after enterprise was canceled oh the star trek franchise is basically dead. It was scaring the crap out of me to see SGU ending like enterprise. Lets hope it ends with a great ending or is enough to spawn another run.
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Your knee-jerk reaction is quite nicely also very ironic! Also, I'll note that you care nothing for tying up loose ends. Just let every big question go unanswered, huh? Doesn't work for a show like Stargate.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
It's certainly a hell lot better than your banal retread, mishmash of the Anubis and Ori arcs. The conception of a premise that you "brainstormed" there represents everything that is wrong with Hollywood; "We'll just do it again, but bigger and better and faster!!!" Your post made me feel physically ill when I read itKevin J. Anderson-sucktastic levels of physically ill.
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You were not a Stargate fan. You were an SG:U fan (a very rare breed if there ever was one). Your position makes a lot more sense now that I'm aware of that.
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| And what was wrong with the new BSG? I liked the new BSG. |
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How Kevin J. Andersonian.|
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Your knee-jerk reaction is quite nicely also very ironic! Also, I'll note that you care nothing for tying up loose ends. Just let every big question go unanswered, huh? Doesn't work for a show like Stargate.
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Anubis is not a loose end. Adria is not a loose end. Both are defeated and stuck in eternal battles for the rest of... well, eternity. I will state that I found Adria's defeat rather disappointing as it was exactly like Anubis' defeat. But oh well, not all of the writing can be stellar.
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| You were not a Stargate fan. |
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I never claimed any of the Stargate shows were original Scythus. You were the one that said |
Originally Posted by Scythus
As opposed to the Perfect Super Team that goes off to other places and saves the day no matter how implausible that the previous two Stargates did? That's been done a lot in television in scores upon scores of other shows as well. If you disagree, then I'd like to know what television you've been watching.
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| SGU took the franchise in a new, interesting direction |
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Really? I don't see "original" anywhere in that sentence, so clearly I didn't say any of them were original either. Oh, wait... you're just being a troll. Ah shucks, and I fed you.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I never claimed any of the Stargate shows were original Scythus. You were the one that said
Those aren't my words. I never said that about any of the Stargate shows. |
Honestly, though... how often do we see a franchise dump most of its formula for a new flavor? Not often. Star Trek did have DS9 and frankly, DS9 is awesome for that. But what else beyond that? I can't really think of anything else that's tried something different from its usual fare.
SGU didn't have the well trained, prepared team that SG-1 and Atlantis had. Instead, they have a completely unprepared and unqualified team and on top of it, they're stuck. That's interesting. It's not a retread of the previous two, so that makes it new.
Go Google the Hero's Journey and discover what it means, then you'll understand that while SGU's a "we're lost" plot, that is not what defines it alone.
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With the exception of the writers most of the SGU team were formerly employed on SG Atlantis. The show had many well trained, prepared people but didn't have the scripts to back it up. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
SGU didn't have the well trained, prepared team that SG-1 and Atlantis had. Instead, they have a completely unprepared and unqualified team and on top of it, they're stuck. That's interesting. It's not a retread of the previous two, so that makes it new.
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But if it makes you feel better to call me names, please continue. I at least was loyal enough to actually support the show by watching it on the syfee channel unlike the thousands of others that killed it by watching it online or rebroadcast on other networks.
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Yes, no show in the history of television has ever done that before.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
Instead, they have a completely unprepared and unqualified team and on top of it, they're stuck. That's interesting. It's not a retread of the previous two, so that makes it new.
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Wait. Is Scythus talking about the people working on the show or has he switched to the concept behind the storyline? If it's the latter it has no bearing on the failure of the show. You can have a successful show based on the wrong people being stuck in the wrong place at the wrong time as long as the scripts don't suck and the characters are likable. Neither of which happened on SGU.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Yes, no show in the history of television has ever done that before.
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What.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
With the exception of the writers most of the SGU team were formerly employed on SG Atlantis. The show had many well trained, prepared people but didn't have the scripts to back it up.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Wait. Is Scythus talking about the people working on the show or has he switched to the concept behind the storyline? If it's the latter it has no bearing on the failure of the show.
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The mere fact that you couldn't follow a simple argument and realize I was talking about the storyline's concept and not its production staff reveals that your opinions are barely worth another thought from me. I get it, you hated the show but it neither sucked, nor were the characters unlikable. If I liked them, then very clearly that makes them likable as I have a tendency to shift into hate very easily.
And Kevin J. AndersI mean, Coyote_Seven needs to read up on his Hero's Journey as well.
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ROTFL|
Originally Posted by Scythus
And Kevin J. AndersI mean, Coyote_Seven needs to read up on his Hero's Journey as well.
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Seriously, you have absolutely no idea.
And I don't intend to share why I think it's so damned funny that you'd say this. My only regret is that in doing so, I won't be able to explain why I know that you have no idea what you're talking about. This is just another example of why the opinions of people who don't even know you are completely worthless.
And having just said that, let me also say that I find your sense of taste to be rather lacking.
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Originally Posted by Scythus
What.
Oh. Well it would figure that you got confused. The mere fact that you couldn't follow a simple argument and realize I was talking about the storyline's concept and not its production staff reveals that your opinions are barely worth another thought from me. I get it, you hated the show but it neither sucked, nor were the characters unlikable. If I liked them, then very clearly that makes them likable as I have a tendency to shift into hate very easily. And Kevin J. AndersI mean, Coyote_Seven needs to read up on his Hero's Journey as well. |
Please feel free to disregard my opinions as much as you like. It still doesn't change the fact that the show has been cancelled because the characters were unlikeable and the writing sucked.
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My sense of taste is lacking, Mr. Bring Back Vanquished Villains for a Bigger, Badder, More XTREEEEM Done Before Plot? Excuse me while I laugh.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
ROTFL
Seriously, you have absolutely no idea. And I don't intend to share why I think it's so damned funny that you'd say this. My only regret is that in doing so, I won't be able to explain why I know that you have no idea what you're talking about. This is just another example of why the opinions of people who don't even know you are completely worthless. And having just said that, let me also say that I find your sense of taste to be rather lacking. |
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Sure, Mister LOST in Space. |
Originally Posted by Scythus
My sense of taste is lacking, Mr. Bring Back Vanquished Villains for a Bigger, Badder, More XTREEEEM Done Before Plot? Excuse me while I laugh.
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um you do realize that season 2 was getting good ratings. And people were watching. Sorry but just because a show got canceled doesn't mean cause it was crap. Take Jerhico. And yes I was pissed when it was canceled and I was one of the people that petitioned to get it back. The same thing that happend to Jerhico happened to SGU. In fact more people were watching SGU.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Please feel free to disregard my opinions as much as you like. It still doesn't change the fact that the show has been cancelled because the characters were unlikeable and the writing sucked.
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Sorry but I have seen way to many shows get pulled early and most of the time without giving any hint about it earlier. So at least the writers can get a decent ending in. Or at least let them finish the last few episodes that are the ending. Hello Starship Troopers Roughneck Chronicles, grrrr. The stations don't care about the shows all they care about the money. And when you don't care about a show it is hard to make good choices about it.
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If that's all you saw, then you really are lacking.
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Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Sure, Mister LOST in Space.
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actually, Season 2 has gotten some pretty damn dismal ratings. this season has done WORSE than the first season. Also, SG:U's ratings have never been anywhere close to Jerico's ratings. if any show got what Universe did for it's first couple episodes, it never would have lasted past the first six episodes, much less made it to a 2nd season. |
Originally Posted by OmnipotentMerlin
um you do realize that season 2 was getting good ratings. And people were watching. Sorry but just because a show got canceled doesn't mean cause it was crap. Take Jerhico. And yes I was pissed when it was canceled and I was one of the people that petitioned to get it back. The same thing that happend to Jerhico happened to SGU. In fact more people were watching SGU.
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sure, people may have been watching SG:U, but not nearly enough to keep it afloat.
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Well I saw the original movie and thought it was mediocre back in 1994, saw around a dozen episodes of SG:SG-1 and thought about 3 of them were good, saw about 2 episodes of SG:Atlantis and never bothered even trying SG:Universe.|
Originally Posted by Veritech
sure, people may have been watching SG:U, but not nearly enough to keep it afloat.
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I feel some sympathy for those who thought these shows were good because lord know plenty of shows I've liked over the years got killed far too early. I really kind of almost wanted to like this franchise, but ultimately I suppose I'm just glad I never quite got into it. *shrugs*
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IMNSHO the biggest problem with SG:U was pacing.|
Originally Posted by Veritech
actually, Season 2 has gotten some pretty damn dismal ratings. this season has done WORSE than the first season. Also, SG:U's ratings have never been anywhere close to Jerico's ratings. if any show got what Universe did for it's first couple episodes, it never would have lasted past the first six episodes, much less made it to a 2nd season.
sure, people may have been watching SG:U, but not nearly enough to keep it afloat. |
It took them FOREVER to get some of the story arcs into full swing. I know they were trying to be more epic and less episodic but still.
The other thing was the mid-season breaks. Those completely DESTROYED *ANY* momentum the show built.
"Let's just take a multi-month break RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ******* SEASON! What could go wrong?"
Whoever thought this was a "good" idea needs to be taken out back and forcibly sterilized...with a chainsaw...for the good of television viewers everywhere.
Season one was blah enough that the gap wasn't a huge deal. Season two had started to really come together when they hit their next mid-season break. It's a shame the series was so badly mishandled. It had a buttload of potential.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Mid season breaks work for an established series like Burn Notice, Psych, Royal Pains on USA, which are the same people who control SyFy. Even series like Eureka and Warehouse 13, people who like the series will be on the lookout for it. But those series are fairly episodic with a minor overall story arc for the season.
SG:U however tries to be Lost in space. Large cast, mostly random strangers, tossed together in much less than ideal circumstances. Finally after a season and a half they start to get the ship they are stranded upon under some vague control they, SyFy, choose to break on a cliffhanger big *** space battle. Also it's not a happy series. Unless you define happy as "we didn't starve, suffocate or flip out and kill everyone today".
So yes I'll watch the end of it. Let's see if Chloe turns into a homicidal alien hybrid. Let's see how the ship survives this battle. Let's see if someone is left behind only to catch up again. Maybe it will end on an upbeat. Probably because they are almost out of down beats.
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The movie really only is decent. It's actually somewhat surprising it ever went on to anything else, as it was an interesting idea but was only run with in a somewhat interesting manner. SG-1 really capitalized on it and added the things needed to make it spark and be a show. |
Originally Posted by Lothic
Well I saw the original movie and thought it was mediocre back in 1994, saw around a dozen episodes of SG:SG-1 and thought about 3 of them were good, saw about 2 episodes of SG:Atlantis and never bothered even trying SG:Universe.
I feel some sympathy for those who thought these shows were good because lord know plenty of shows I've liked over the years got killed far too early. I really kind of almost wanted to like this franchise, but ultimately I suppose I'm just glad I never quite got into it. *shrugs* |
Still, that isn't going to be for everyone. And the show has had missteps since then. SG-1 should have ended after Season 8 (since they basically restarted the show in Season 9). Atlantis was somewhat different enough to be its own thing, but I think having a different staff working on it (with some continuity) would have helped to make it stand out more from SG-1.
Universe was just too different from what worked for the show to get off the ground, I think. New things are great, but when it changes that dramatically (when the other two series were so recent) probably is not a good idea, given the fan base. If you think about it Star Trek: TNG started out somewhat similar feeling to the original series, then figured out where it wanted to go on its own.
Multiple series in the same universe can have difficulties holding their own.
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People don't want "new and innovative".
Oh, they THINK they do. They think they want original stories and plots, but deep down that's not really true, even if they can't admit it to themselves.
People want more of the same. Seriously. More of the same, with just enough tweaking that is SEEMS like it's new, but with that comfortable core that they're used to and remember.
This applies to pretty much anything, not just television.
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Ah... a fellow cynic.
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Originally Posted by NinjaPirate
People don't want "new and innovative".
Oh, they THINK they do. They think they want original stories and plots, but deep down that's not really true, even if they can't admit it to themselves. People want more of the same. Seriously. More of the same, with just enough tweaking that is SEEMS like it's new, but with that comfortable core that they're used to and remember. This applies to pretty much anything, not just television. -k |
Dear lord....