What if you acquire 1 billion inf in debt and are unable to make 2 billion quickly, like some can?
Er...
No.
I read through this, and all I can see are the "bad old days" of XP debt, spending whole levels (first 50 being an elec/elec blaster) trying to work that off.
Not a marketeer, don't want to be forced to be one (or a farmer, or otherwise "grind.")
Want an INF sink, make it one that people want to put INF into and get a decent return on.
Eh, my idea is a lottery system.
You spend X inf on a ticket, and each week (or day) theres a drawing. Winner gets 85% of the amount spent on tickets, losers lose everything.
That way, 15% is already burnt off, and give it a chance for no winners, so the entire lump sum can be burnt off.
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Okay first, as usual, Memphis Bill and I agree. Next .. can I ask just exactly WHY removing influence from the game is SOOOOOO desperately needed? It seems to me like we have more than enough influence sinks since the Invension System began and especially since the very rare, and highly coveted, purple recipes arrived. I can, and just did recently,sell a Purple that increase pet damage by 53% for more than 300 million and I keep seeing things here on the forums where some recipes are selling for a billion or more.. and we need to find ways to get RID of Influence? |
Originally Posted by seebs
You know, like XP debt. If you have 1 billion inf debt, the next two billion inf you would have acquired, by any means whatsoever, gets split into burning off the debt and actually going to you.
What "inf debt" would do is allow removal of inf from the game (desperately needed) without making affected characters completely unplayable, or requiring them to actually have that inf lying around. What could it be used for? Well, the obvious thing would be blatant exploits -- characters could be assigned inf debt equal to the inf they obtained through the exploit. Maybe other things. Mostly, though, if the tool were there, it would provide a way to remove inf from the game without rendering characters unplayable, and we need more of those. |
Bill's right this idea smacks of how things used to be when before Patrol XP when players got totally frustrated as they slowly made their way from level to level trying to work off debt and cringing if they died in a mission meaning it would take even longer before they finally got back to earning decent XP. I run several SGs and unlike many I stay in SG mode all the way to level 50 and sometimes beyond.. I have exactly one character that is no longer playing in SG mode.. My 50 level Carb Spider She is my badger and over the course of playing every TF, running countless Time travel missions, and getting every intance door badge on BOTH red and blue side she has earned the Sg over 1.2 million in prestige. She earned the right to shut off the prestige and collect full INF. I have no desire to see that cut because she lost a battle to an AV.. especially now that we have Apex and Tin Man TFs.. I lost track of how many deaths I suffered on Apex battling BM.
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I'm sorry to say but you have no idea what a inf sink is.
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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Okay first, as usual, Memphis Bill and I agree. Next .. can I ask just exactly WHY removing influence from the game is SOOOOOO desperately needed? It seems to me like we have more than enough influence sinks since the Invension System began and especially since the very rare, and highly coveted, purple recipes arrived. I can, and just did recently,sell a Purple that increase pet damage by 53% for more than 300 million and I keep seeing things here on the forums where some recipes are selling for a billion or more.. and we need to find ways to get RID of Influence?
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What shall claim a Sky Kings' Ransom?
PPD & Resistance Epic Archetypes
1. Make throw-away character.
2. Email all cash to said character and delete.
3. ???
4. Anti-Profit.
I'm confused.
How exactly would one get into influence debt to begin with?
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Inf sinks aren't about removing it from any one character, but removing it from the game entirely. Such as the 10% fee at the market or the ability to buy prestige. The reason it's seen as necessary is because it's so easy to create inf in this game, particularly if your build can defeat enemies at a fast pace.|
Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Okay first, as usual, Memphis Bill and I agree. Next .. can I ask just exactly WHY removing influence from the game is SOOOOOO desperately needed? It seems to me like we have more than enough influence sinks since the Invension System began and especially since the very rare, and highly coveted, purple recipes arrived. I can, and just did recently,sell a Purple that increase pet damage by 53% for more than 300 million and I keep seeing things here on the forums where some recipes are selling for a billion or more.. and we need to find ways to get RID of Influence?
|
The sheer amounts of inf floating around out there are causing prices of certain items in the market to go nuts. Rare, highly sought after items increase in price until most people can't afford them through their normal play methods. Common, frequently used things like particular salvage and recipes increase in price as well, sometimes drastically. In that case it's because people who have wagonloads of inf get bored waiting around for their bids to fill at reasonable prices, so they overbid in an attempt to get it immediately. They can afford it, after all. These things cause folks who play "the casual way" to get frustrated, since from what they can see, prices on even the most common items in the game are seriously out of whack.
When you buy things on the market, 90% of that inf stays in the game and just shifts from one character to another. Worse, when high-ticket items sell off-market for prices above the inf cap, that inf has no market fee deducted. So that's 10% of 2-5 billion that doesn't get destroyed.
In essence, as long as people have "extra" money to throw at getting what they want, prices are going to go up. Players who don't have that kind of money get frustrated and develop a poor opinion of the game. That not only causes those players to stop playing, but it spreads negative word of mouth about an otherwise great game. Pretty lose-lose in the big picture.
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That's all well and good, but the OP's idea is still NOT a good one.
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Originally Posted by Triplash
Inf sinks aren't about removing it from any one character, but removing it from the game entirely. Such as the 10% fee at the market or the ability to buy prestige. The reason it's seen as necessary is because it's so easy to create inf in this game, particularly if your build can defeat enemies at a fast pace.
The sheer amounts of inf floating around out there are causing prices of certain items in the market to go nuts. Rare, highly sought after items increase in price until most people can't afford them through their normal play methods. Common, frequently used things like particular salvage and recipes increase in price as well, sometimes drastically. In that case it's because people who have wagonloads of inf get bored waiting around for their bids to fill at reasonable prices, so they overbid in an attempt to get it immediately. They can afford it, after all. These things cause folks who play "the casual way" to get frustrated, since from what they can see, prices on even the most common items in the game are seriously out of whack. When you buy things on the market, 90% of that inf stays in the game and just shifts from one character to another. Worse, when high-ticket items sell off-market for prices above the inf cap, that inf has no market fee deducted. So that's 10% of 2-5 billion that doesn't get destroyed. In essence, as long as people have "extra" money to throw at getting what they want, prices are going to go up. Players who don't have that kind of money get frustrated and develop a poor opinion of the game. That not only causes those players to stop playing, but it spreads negative word of mouth about an otherwise great game. Pretty lose-lose in the big picture. |
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I was just answering the question about why people think inf sinks are necessary. Not everyone knows what they are or why they'd be good for us.|
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
That's all well and good, but the OP's idea is still NOT a good one.
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About the debt idea, I agree (sorry seebs). To make a meaningful impact it would have to be both common and fairly severe, which would likely lead to as much frustration as high market prices. I do like the creativity of it though, it's not just another "gimme stuff to buy" idea. That part's good
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This idea is covered in Clever.|
Originally Posted by Arbegla
Eh, my idea is a lottery system.
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Although I wouldn't have the lottery be for Inf. I'd make it for something exclusive-ish, that gets used up...
...like a Gold Title. Or a special jetpack. Or other such thing that lasts, say, 24-48 hrs of game-time.
Special enough that everyone wants it, but not so special that anyone needs it. And make sure people can buy multiple tickets in this draw!
/e goes away to think on this...
ThatGuyThere hit the nail on the head (I just wish I could remember his name!).
An effective inf sink needs to be sought after, and widely accessible. If it's too expensive, then less inf will be burned. If it's too cheap, then it's also ineffective. If it's a strict lottery, then not enough gets removed from the system.
Seebs, I love that you're not coming up with the same old tired ideas, but I have to disagree on this suggestion. Whatever inf sink gets added, I don't think it should come in the form of a penalty. Ideally, I'll be tap-dancing after spending 200mil on some MacGuffin.
I think respecs should have been sold for inf, but it's too late now. We need to come up with something that is universally valued, but isn't already sold for real-world money and doesn't step on the Market's toes.
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Bolding mine. |
Originally Posted by Triplash
The reason it's seen as necessary is because it's so easy to create inf in this game, particularly if your build can defeat enemies at a fast pace.
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Yes, if you're running something that's an AOE monster, it is. If you're not, well, INF doesn't flow quite as easily, barring a lucky drop - in which case the prices at the market work in your favor.
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| The sheer amounts of inf floating around out there are causing prices of certain items in the market to go nuts. |
Others - like me - who have a large stable of alts don't tend to have "rich" characters. My highest tends to hover around 300 mil (not IOed out, but not lacking in them, certainly not purpled) - the INF goes to supplying bases and lowbies. Most of my others never see 100 mill, other than a lucky drop, and may not top 50 mill.
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| Rare, highly sought after items increase in price until most people can't afford them through their normal play methods. |
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| Common, frequently used things like particular salvage and recipes increase in price as well, sometimes drastically. In that case it's because people who have wagonloads of inf get bored waiting around for their bids to fill at reasonable prices, so they overbid in an attempt to get it immediately. They can afford it, after all. These things cause folks who play "the casual way" to get frustrated, since from what they can see, prices on even the most common items in the game are seriously out of whack. |
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| In essence, as long as people have "extra" money to throw at getting what they want, prices are going to go up. Players who don't have that kind of money get frustrated and develop a poor opinion of the game. That not only causes those players to stop playing, but it spreads negative word of mouth about an otherwise great game. Pretty lose-lose in the big picture. |
If the market were the *only* way to get the items? I'd agree, it would be pretty bad. But it isn't (not even for market teleporters.)
Just have to be willing to look at the alternatives.
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Why not a recipe randomly chosen from a pool by the computer? Even if it's a highly sought after rare or unique, so long as it's purely random who gets it, all the inf involved in the lottery would be 100% burned, replaced by an item...add an extra 10% burned if the lucky winner turns around and sells his winnings on the market. Limit lotteries to per-server, have multiple lotteries going on at one time, dole out the winnings ever other day to start anew, charge 100k per ticket (1-per character)...|
Originally Posted by ThatGuyThere
This idea is covered in Clever.
Although I wouldn't have the lottery be for Inf. I'd make it for something exclusive-ish, that gets used up... ...like a Gold Title. Or a special jetpack. Or other such thing that lasts, say, 24-48 hrs of game-time. Special enough that everyone wants it, but not so special that anyone needs it. And make sure people can buy multiple tickets in this draw! /e goes away to think on this... |
I'd be checking up on lottery prizes, creating new characters on other servers to e-mail inf to so they can bid on desired prizes, the whole enchilada...if I didn't have to try saving billions for a certain PvP IO or a super rare temp-power recipe...maybe even costume codes.
But I doubt I'd ever bother for a crummy Gold Title or Jet pack. Lol, who'd waste their time for stuff like that? >_>
I think every SG base should be powered by an inf burning furnace.
Wait...what was the topic again?
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Great points all. For example, I completely agree on making use of the alternate means. I have learned enough about the markets in the last few months to be able to bring in substantial inf when I need it, but I spent a long time relying almost solely on what came from defeats. So I tend to be in the same boat as the alt-heavy players you mentioned. Trip herself maintains around 200-300mil on average, while a wide selection of other characters just take life as it comes. And that suits me fine. There are plenty of options for getting things I want, no complaints here.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
(An excellent display of logic)
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I'm not going to stand here and insist that everything I said was absolutely true, especially when I was pretty much just paraphrasing what I had read on the subject over in the Market section. What I said earlier is my understanding of why inf sinks are considered important. But I know I'm more than capable of being wrong
If my reasoning is off though, then Wendy's question stands: Why do some people feel it's so important that we remove influence from the game?
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Would there be an animation that makes the fire flare up whenever someone actually threw inf into it? Because I think for that I'd do it |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I think every SG base should be powered by an inf burning furnace.
Wait...what was the topic again? |
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here ya go.
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Originally Posted by Triplash
If my reasoning is off though, then Wendy's question stands: Why do some people feel it's so important that we remove influence from the game?
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My City Was Gone
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Well if I'm understanding that right, then...|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
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Huh. Y'know, maybe there's just some conversations I should stay out of
Thanks for the info anyway! But I'm gonna think on that one a bit more before I pretend to have a grasp on it again.
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heehee! =P|
Originally Posted by Triplash
Well if I'm understanding that right, then...
Huh. Y'know, maybe there's just some conversations I should stay out of Thanks for the info anyway! But I'm gonna think on that one a bit more before I pretend to have a grasp on it again. |
Aside from all that boring IRL stuff, I want inf sinks because right now there's an entire class of player for whom inf has no real meaning because its so easy to make and there are, relatively speaking, so few things for us to spend it on.
That's one of the main motivators for the Crazy 88's...blowing tens of billions on meaningless prestige has given a bunch of us a reason to care about making inf again.
It'd be nice if the *game* gave us more ways to destroy inf instead of having to make up our own.
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My City Was Gone
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I want to rent billboards. |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
heehee! =P
Aside from all that boring IRL stuff, I want inf sinks because right now there's an entire class of player for whom inf has no real meaning because its so easy to make and there are, relatively speaking, so few things for us to spend it on. That's one of the main motivators for the Crazy 88's...blowing tens of billions on meaningless prestige has given a bunch of us a reason to care about making inf again. It'd be nice if the *game* gave us more ways to destroy inf instead of having to make up our own. |
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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that would be so awesome.
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Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I want to rent billboards.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Hey, if you have THAT much inf to throw away, mind throwing it my way?
I get the reasoning behind Inf sinks. I just don't think the game has any decent ones. And to the OPs idea, I don't actually posses enough Hell No! to unsign it with. Not everyone has a walking bank toon they can jsut dive to when they need stuff. Some of us have to do things the old fashioned way, because the market isnt so easy for some of us, and lady luck tends to deal foul hands in the drops department.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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No
You know, like XP debt. If you have 1 billion inf debt, the next two billion inf you would have acquired, by any means whatsoever, gets split into burning off the debt and actually going to you.
What "inf debt" would do is allow removal of inf from the game (desperately needed) without making affected characters completely unplayable, or requiring them to actually have that inf lying around.
What could it be used for? Well, the obvious thing would be blatant exploits -- characters could be assigned inf debt equal to the inf they obtained through the exploit. Maybe other things. Mostly, though, if the tool were there, it would provide a way to remove inf from the game without rendering characters unplayable, and we need more of those.