Overanalying Comics (Survivng what would kill normal people)
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-11-23 19:38 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
i dont know why poeple overanalyze the stuff either, i just enjoy the fighting with superpowers and all that
using gadgets and such make batman cool, and watching that stuff can also be quite hilarious (ie the original batman series with adam west "holy chemicals batman", ect)
If you go to cracked.com, they have list of some things
5 most epic one man rampages in history of war
5 real life soldiers who make Rambo like a wimp
6 soldiers who survived things that would kill a terminator
Anyways it goes show that a trained human being is capable taking some punishment and keep on going to kick butt. Batman has trained his body and mind to do something similar to the examples listed.
-Edit-
Oh yeah it's Cracked.com come so links might be NSFW
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Twitter: @Alpha_Ryvius
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I've heard of some of those people before, like The White Death and Audie Murphy.......but wow. |
Originally Posted by Unknown_User
If you go to cracked.com, they have list of some things
5 most epic one man rampages in history of war 5 real life soldiers who make Rambo like a wimp 6 soldiers who survived things that would kill a terminator Anyways it goes show that a trained human being is capable taking some punishment and keep on going to kick butt. Batman has trained his body and mind to do something similar to the examples listed. -Edit- Oh yeah it's Cracked.com come so links might be NSFW |
I've always wondered where the idea of Solid Snake and other Metal Gear characters came from.....
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-anim.php
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Well for Batman, it was never really he couldn't do a lot of those things.
It's that, Batman vs Flash for example, I don't see Batman reacting fast enough to even defeat the Flash.
They're in a ring. The bell is rung. Flash is already in batman's corner and throwing the punches.
That's how fast Flash is suppossed to be. 
Same with Superman, who can hit a lot harder.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Actually, it's been stated that the standard X-costumes now have body armor in them. This was quite some time ago, but I don't see them removing that bit of trivia for most of the costumes.|
Originally Posted by Nightphall
Some fans can be downright irrational at times. If Juggernaut punches Cyclops through a wall, people are fine with it. If Batman gets slammed through a wall by Solomon Grundy or Bane, people howl and say he shouldn't be able to survive an attack like that at all, while forgetting the degree of protection his costume provides. As far as I know, Cyclops doesn't have any special protection when he gets hit by superhumanly strong opponents.
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That aside, you still have a valid point.
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
Quote:
you've heard the term "stranger than fiction"? or somebody tells a true story so weird that they couldnt possibly make **** like that up? because even if something could plausibly and consistently happen, if it even smells implausible or impossible, then it IS implausible and impossible as far as fictional characters are concerned regardless as to whether or not somebody real got away with it. it's just fricken weird what some folks will accept and some won't.|
Originally Posted by Unknown_User
If you go to cracked.com, they have list of some things
5 most epic one man rampages in history of war 5 real life soldiers who make Rambo like a wimp 6 soldiers who survived things that would kill a terminator Anyways it goes show that a trained human being is capable taking some punishment and keep on going to kick butt. Batman has trained his body and mind to do something similar to the examples listed. -Edit- Oh yeah it's Cracked.com come so links might be NSFW |
as for the Batman problems. i love how sometimes that no matter well written a fight is, and plausible the victory is, most of the anti-Bats arguments boil down to "pfft, he only wins because of plot armor!"
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Originally Posted by BrandX
It's that, Batman vs Flash for example, I don't see Batman reacting fast enough to even defeat the Flash.
They're in a ring. The bell is rung. Flash is already in batman's corner and throwing the punches. That's how fast Flash is suppossed to be. Same with Superman, who can hit a lot harder. |
so we're supposed to accept that Batman would EVER take anyone on in a straight up fight? frak that.
The one that always gets me...
When non-supers get thrown at a concrete wall...and the concrete breaks. Ya...no. Now, I'm not an expert on civil engineering, but one would think concrete with rebar innit would be a bit more sturdy than the meatsack that comprises your average human being.
The problem with a lot of times is that it's that people think dodging bullets means dodging bullets. When you dodge a bullet or a lazer you are not dodging the actual bullet or the light. You are seeing where barrel is pointed at and dodging away from that before the gun is ever fired.
And likewise a lot of things look like they are more damaging than they would be to a person because a lot of people aren't trained in how to take a blow. That's why if you take 2 equally strong people, 1 trained and 1 untrained, the untrained can be taken out with a punch that would hardly phase the trained one.
That is not to say however, like pointed out above a person hitting concrete could every break it... The area size of a human body precludes it from hitting concrete at any force without dieing and breaking the concrete...And i mean the whole body. Obviously a punch can break concrete. Less area, more pressure per square inch so it's possible with a fist. with a body we know a terminal velocity human will just splatter the ground and not even make a dent.
Could Batman do it though? I don't know the specs but there is credibility to the ability to do it. See the way the bat suit's armor works is that the ceramics cause the energy of a bullet to spread out and thus do less or no damage to the wearer. How effective it is in dissipate the energy that would be enough to break concrete is clearly outside of our ceramic armor ability, but who knows, Batman might have more effective ceramics. Depending on how effective determines how many times he could have it happen. I would say in his normal gear Batman can't survive more than a single concrete breaking full body hit if that. But considering there are other energy field techs at his disposal, who knows.
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You'd be surprised how shoddily buildings are put together these days. |
Originally Posted by Dark One
The one that always gets me...
When non-supers get thrown at a concrete wall...and the concrete breaks. Ya...no. Now, I'm not an expert on civil engineering, but one would think concrete with rebar innit would be a bit more sturdy than the meatsack that comprises your average human being. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Hey, I'll suspend my belief for something that looks cool.|
Originally Posted by Dark One
The one that always gets me...
When non-supers get thrown at a concrete wall...and the concrete breaks. Ya...no. Now, I'm not an expert on civil engineering, but one would think concrete with rebar innit would be a bit more sturdy than the meatsack that comprises your average human being. |
Isn't that sorta what comics are about? Fantastical stories and action?
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concrete just aint what it used to be. |
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
You'd be surprised how shoddily buildings are put together these days.
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Yes. Something that one friend of my tends to forget as he constantly points out the physics violations of movies and action shows......
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Originally Posted by Cowman
Isn't that sorta what comics are about? Fantastical stories and action?
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Originally Posted by Durakken
The problem with a lot of times is that it's that people think dodging bullets means dodging bullets. When you dodge a bullet or a lazer you are not dodging the actual bullet or the light. You are seeing where barrel is pointed at and dodging away from that before the gun is ever fired.
And likewise a lot of things look like they are more damaging than they would be to a person because a lot of people aren't trained in how to take a blow. That's why if you take 2 equally strong people, 1 trained and 1 untrained, the untrained can be taken out with a punch that would hardly phase the trained one. That is not to say however, like pointed out above a person hitting concrete could every break it... The area size of a human body precludes it from hitting concrete at any force without dieing and breaking the concrete...And i mean the whole body. Obviously a punch can break concrete. Less area, more pressure per square inch so it's possible with a fist. with a body we know a terminal velocity human will just splatter the ground and not even make a dent. Could Batman do it though? I don't know the specs but there is credibility to the ability to do it. See the way the bat suit's armor works is that the ceramics cause the energy of a bullet to spread out and thus do less or no damage to the wearer. How effective it is in dissipate the energy that would be enough to break concrete is clearly outside of our ceramic armor ability, but who knows, Batman might have more effective ceramics. Depending on how effective determines how many times he could have it happen. I would say in his normal gear Batman can't survive more than a single concrete breaking full body hit if that. But considering there are other energy field techs at his disposal, who knows. |
He survives for one reason and one reason only.................HE's BATMAN! 'Nuff said!
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Did they touch on this at all in Trinity? Because they were saying how Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman represented some kind of trinity of forces of the universe or something, and maybe they used that to justify the universe "favoring" him.
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Originally Posted by Nericus
He survives for one reason and one reason only.................HE's BATMAN! 'Nuff said!
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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But it only works if there's an internal consistency.
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Originally Posted by Cowman
Isn't that sorta what comics are about? Fantastical stories and action?
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Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Then it's not a big deal cuz Batman consistently takes down metas. |
Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
But it only works if there's an internal consistency.
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- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
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Oh, I don't actually mind the writing of Batman surviving such things.|
Originally Posted by Cowman
Hey, I'll suspend my belief for something that looks cool.
Isn't that sorta what comics are about? Fantastical stories and action? |
I don't even mind when we see Batman beat someone you'd think would win against him.
It's only when in discussions, about such things, that I'll say such things as, Batman can't beat such people as the Flash and Superman in a fight.
When it comes to the actual reading of comics, or watching their respective movies, the rule of cool takes over.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Batman's combat abilities and prowess have been perhaps a bit....overamped....since Frank Miller wrote Dark Knight Returns where at the end Batman does defeat Superman. Of course Bruce had a few things in his favor.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Oh, I don't actually mind the writing of Batman surviving such things.
I don't even mind when we see Batman beat someone you'd think would win against him. It's only when in discussions, about such things, that I'll say such things as, Batman can't beat such people as the Flash and Superman in a fight. When it comes to the actual reading of comics, or watching their respective movies, the rule of cool takes over. |
1. He told Clark where to meet him for the final showdown, Crime Alley. Bruce's turf that he has long since scoped out and has rigged for the fight.
2. Superman had just taken a nuclear blast and was extremely weakened, plus there was a nuclear winter in effect hence he's cut off from the sun and thus at a lower then normal power.
3. Bruce rigged a barrage of missiles set to go off when Superman used his x-ray vision and the missiles gave him a tough time due to his low power.
4. Bruce wore an exo suit of armor that was charged up by the entire power grid of the city. He channels some of that into Superman, hurting him even more due to his low power level and then uses the rest of the energy to charge the suit's strength boosters and proceeds to pound Superman.
5. Bruce had Green Arrow hiding in the shadows with an arrow of kryptonite, which poisoned Superman even more.
Though Bruce faked his death at the end of that fight, he still won against Superman.
It boils down to this: with enough prep time and gadgets at his disposal, there are few foes that Batman cannot defeat. Had Superman been closer to his normal power levels, and been more ruthless in that fight, the Bruce would have been owned. But Bruce knows that Superman doesn't fight that way so that was yet another advantage to Bruce.
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Actually I think it boils down to the fact that Superman doesn't truly want to beat Batman. Whether out of pity (for Bruce or himself) or respect, Clark doesn't want to beat him down.|
Originally Posted by Nericus
It boils down to this: with enough prep time and gadgets at his disposal, there are few foes that Batman cannot defeat. Had Superman been closer to his normal power levels, and been more ruthless in that fight, the Bruce would have been owned. But Bruce knows that Superman doesn't fight that way so that was yet another advantage to Bruce.
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About the only time I've seen Superman beat the crap out of Batman in continuity is during the Sacrifice arc, in which Superman thinks he's fighting a member of his rogues gallery that rivals his abilities physically, so Superman was actually trying to kill him, and it was only Wonder Woman's intervention that saved Batman. Even still, Bruce was beat to hell and near death after that confrontation.
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
If it is entertaining me I probably wouldn't even notice any inconsistencies.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Yeah, but if Superman was beating up someone who he thought could take it, how could Batman possibly have survived even the first blow?|
Originally Posted by CaptainFoamerang
Actually I think it boils down to the fact that Superman doesn't truly want to beat Batman. Whether out of pity (for Bruce or himself) or respect, Clark doesn't want to beat him down.
About the only time I've seen Superman beat the crap out of Batman in continuity is during the Sacrifice arc, in which Superman thinks he's fighting a member of his rogues gallery that rivals his abilities physically, so Superman was actually trying to kill him, and it was only Wonder Woman's intervention that saved Batman. Even still, Bruce was beat to hell and near death after that confrontation. |
Dangit, am I over analyzing? Hmph. Guess that's why I can't read Bats and Supes' books, anymore.
"America is about speed. Hot, nasty, bad-[censored] speed."
-Eleanor Roosevelt
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.
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Superman holds back. He does it so constantly, I don't think he CAN bring himself to go in with a full force hit right off the bat. He has to build up to it, always trying to find that level of minimal effective force, so he doesn't go around hitting people so hard their heads explode from the impact of his fist.
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Originally Posted by MisterTorgo
Yeah, but if Superman was beating up someone who he thought could take it, how could Batman possibly have survived even the first blow?
Dangit, am I over analyzing? Hmph. Guess that's why I can't read Bats and Supes' books, anymore. |
"I do so love taking a nice, well thought out character and putting them through hell. It's like tossing a Faberge Egg onto the stage during a Gallagher concert." - me
@Palador / @Rabid Unicorn
Quote:
It was all explained in the comic where the JLA analyzed the recording of the attack. Superman had beamed into the Watchtower and Batman barely noticed something was up in time to activate Watchtower defense protocols, which included attack drones and such, and they were set at "omega levels" or whatever, which I believe are in place in case someone like Despero comes knocking, so within his fantasy, when Superman was trading blows with someone, it could very well have been one of those drones or Wonder Woman instead of Batman.
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Originally Posted by MisterTorgo
Yeah, but if Superman was beating up someone who he thought could take it, how could Batman possibly have survived even the first blow?
Dangit, am I over analyzing? Hmph. Guess that's why I can't read Bats and Supes' books, anymore. |
- CaptainFoamerang
Silverspar on Kelly Hu: A face that could melt paint off the wall *shivers*
Someone play my AE arc! "The Heart of Statesman" ID: 343405
Quote:
Who did Superman believe Batman was? It was Darkseid, right? I would think that, after all this time, if Superman was still starting a fight with the dark lord of Apokolips with not even enough force to kill a Regular Human™ in a batsuit, then he needs to rethink his line of work.|
Originally Posted by Rabid_Metroid
Superman holds back. He does it so constantly, I don't think he CAN bring himself to go in with a full force hit right off the bat. He has to build up to it, always trying to find that level of minimal effective force, so he doesn't go around hitting people so hard their heads explode from the impact of his fist.
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I often read superhero books for some imaginative, well-thought knuckledusters. It bugs me when the fights as presented interfere with my suspension of disbelief. As someone else mentioned, it's about internal consistency.
And knuckledusting.
"America is about speed. Hot, nasty, bad-[censored] speed."
-Eleanor Roosevelt
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.
EDIT: Changed the subject title. The original didn't really fit.
I know a lot of people get into fits whenever Batman fights villains with superpowers, whether they be from his own Rogues' Gallery, or many of the metahumans that populate the DC Universe.
"He's only human! He shouldn't be able to dodge lasers!"
"A blow like that should have killed him!"
"Batman can't beat anyone with powers"
I don't know what it is......maybe people forget that Batman's suit does a rather decent job at preventing damage (in our game's terms, it provides greater than normal resistances to Smashing, Lethal, Fire, and various others.) Not to mention the various martial arts training methods that he used to learn to work through pain and the like. And that's even if you manage to hit him in the first place. (And I didn't mention the other features of the costume)
When it comes to fighting people with powers, I agree.....depending on the opponent. Villains like Clayface and Metallo would require Batman utilizing his gadgets to beat them, but say someone like Weather Wizard or Dr. Arthur Light......once Batman gets up and close, neither of the two have superhuman endurance or invulnerability. One punch from Batman will knock them out. Something I wish more people would realize. Even superpowered people who don't have super strength take out villains with normal punches from time to time.
But when it comes to other heroes in either DC or Marvel, to quote a trope I saw on the internet today:
Anyone have any other examples regarding the two in a certain circumstance?
1. A normal trained human who can survive superhuman blows with explanation (I suppose Powered Armor heroes could fit in this group)
2. A superpowered being who is not invulnerable but still survives them
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