Bait and switch Aegis Mez protection.
By
AddamsFamily,
Posted on: 2010-11-11 18:45 in Player Questions
when i slot this i only use it for the psi resist
status effect resistance is almost worthless anyway because the mez will still hit you but this might make the duration slightly shorter, it offers no mez protection
I take it on most toons. Definitely on any without Mez Protection. Anything to shorten how long I'm held, slept, stunned, confused or feared. I place it in an Auto if possible, a toggle otherwise. Yes, it is near useless in a click--it a hard lesson learned.
The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister.
--The Question, JLU
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Status resist is only good because there are no other options. Melee ignore it completely, but since the developers seem to think that adding duration makes it harder it just screws over not melee, especially at the high levels.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
when i slot this i only use it for the psi resist
status effect resistance is almost worthless anyway because the mez will still hit you but this might make the duration slightly shorter, it offers no mez protection |
If there was something else I could grab other then Acrobatics, I'd get that. I already have the really pathetic -2 Acrobatics, but that gets overwhelmed constantly as well.
At least if the status resistance worked that would provide something to get away from the ridiculous mez durations. But no. It doesn't work.
Oh hey, it's Issue 9 again! Lets Do the Time Warp Again!!!
Okay, as my opening line indicates, the issues raised in the opening post are hardly new nor undocumented. Many of the rage threads over the Aegis proc were wiped away in one of the forum change-overs to new software, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised to see a new post on what is a dead horse.
The short version is this: the developers are happy with what the Proc does, and given that they haven't changed it in over 3 years, they probably are not going to change it now.
Is it a bait and switch? Well. No. The power does what it says it does, nothing more. It says it offers psionic and status resistance, and that's all it offers. The proc, nor the recipe, make any claim to offer protection.
If the mez protection is turning off, and you are not exemplared below the enhancement's minimum slotting level, bug it. It's not supposed to be 10 seconds after a click - that's clearly bugged.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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It should provide resistance (i.e. shortening the duration of mez effects). This is what the use of the IO is intended as it is named "Mez resist" shockingly enough.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
The power does what it says it does, nothing more. It says it offers psionic and status resistance, and that's all it offers. The proc, nor the recipe, make any claim to offer protection.
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In a click power the status resistance buff is only applied for 10 seconds after the power is used. The 3% psionic resistance is applied at all times.
The IO is useless in a click power for the primary purpose, yet the secondary use is still functional.
Additionally, the potential powers to slot this IO into are not suitable for the likely users who would desire this capability. 4 out of the 12 sets for C/C/D/MM have powers to slot this IO in without the need for Tough or a APP/PPP shield in order to make it work correctly.
It is a terribly designed piece of junk as it is now.
Functionally, it is as if you had a 4 slot Kinetic Combat, but you only gained the 3.75% Smash/Lethal defense for 10 seconds after using that power it is slotted in.
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It DOES provide a shortening of the duration of effects. When you have it slotted, any status effect that hits you will be shortened by 7.5%. |
Originally Posted by Savos
It should provide resistance (i.e. shortening the duration of mez effects). This is what the use of the IO is intended as it is named "Mez resist" shockingly enough.
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10% of 12 seconds is 1.2 seconds, so 7.5% is less than that. It IS shortening the duration, but you probably aren't noticing it.
It does not claim to do anything that it doesn't do, thus there is no bait and switch involved at all.
If you slotted it expecting to be protected from mez effects, or have them reduced by a significant amount, the problem is that you failed to understand the durations involved, rather than a problem inherent within the IO itself.
Most people DON'T slot it because they understand that it's effectiveness is minimal at best. Chalk it up to a lesson learned and don't slot it in the future.
If every character in the game had reliable mez protection, a lot of the enemies that are challenging would be pushovers. And that probably isn't a good thing for the game.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Mmm...
Hate to say this, but the devs likes having the support ATs 100% vulnerable to status effects, its their cheesy way to add challenge to content. Want to make the mission harder? Want more in game challenge? Easy! Add more ambushes that opens up with spam AOE mez! that's it, presto, more challenge! Wohooo!
Since that is their mentality, the chance that they will give up their cheesy way to add challenge to the game, by letting Support ATs actually resist a mez attack! Ha ha ha ha, Never gonna happen! They gave support ATs 2 baby pacifiers, break frees and reduced duration mez effect IOs! so shut up and start sucking, game is working as dev's intended!
When it gets to reduced duration, all I can do is laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and wish I could be mentally challenged and not notice how pointless that is!
When one considers how long the durations of mob mez's are, even if by some miracle you could cut by half the duration, its all pointless anyway, ha ha ha... So instead of being mezzed by 15 seconds, I am mezzed by 7 seconds, ha ha ha, I am usually dead in 3 seconds by the mob ambush (since they go mez, melee, mez, melee pattern of attack, and lately tend to spawn right on top of you), so that made an awesome difference, right?, ha ha ha ha! Must suck pacifier harder, maybe it will make a difference...
As of the introduction of IO sets, many support ATs have gone the route to soft cap defense as a mitigation to the over excessive use of mez (since there is absolutely nothing that can be effectively done to protect from it); but as we can see now, a new batch of mobs are coming out with new high to-hit-buffs or buff others that are making defense pointless, guess we can chalk it up to increased challenge, ha ha ha, this is so balanced, it's simply genius (ends sarcasm).
Stormy
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Interesting, but not an accurate point at an absolute level, also why melee has no challenge in the game.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If every character in the game had reliable mez protection, a lot of the enemies that are challenging would be pushovers. And that probably isn't a good thing for the game. |
Remember that each Mez attack has a MAG potency, and so the "dangerousness" of a mez mob is dependent on its MAG potency and the victim's MAG defense. This why Support is so helpless against minions, they have MAG-0 to resist a MAG-1 Attack, a Tanker with MAG-12 potency defense, would need to be simultaneously striken by 13 mezzing mobs to be affected, I don't think it ever happens...
So some MAG protection afforded to Support ATs, is not game breaking by any means, it just makes low end mobs not as dangerous, a level of danger they should never had in the first place. If a MAG 3 was to be given to Support ATs, it would let them resist 3 Mez minions attacks, but if they were attacked by a Mez Minion and Mez LT at the same time, they would have a 75% chance to resist, if they were hit by a Boss (MAG 3) it would be a 75% chance to resist, the same chance the boss would have to resist a controller's strongest mez! If the Controller was hit by both a LT and Boss, effective combined MEZ MAG 5, the Controller would have a 25% of shaking it, if a minion was to add their 10 cents, thus a boss, lt and minion, then the Support AT has NO chance,a nd is auto sent to la la la land. I would think a support getting hit by a boss, lt, and 1 minion (MAG 6 composite) to happen far more often than the MAG 12 composite needed to affect a tank.
Stormy
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Originally Posted by Savos
In a click power the status resistance buff is only applied for 10 seconds after the power is used.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It DOES provide a shortening of the duration of effects. When you have it slotted, any status effect that hits you will be shortened by 7.5%.
10% of 12 seconds is 1.2 seconds, so 7.5% is less than that. It IS shortening the duration, but you probably aren't noticing it. It does not claim to do anything that it doesn't do, thus there is no bait and switch involved at all. |
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My Warshade told me to tell you to look more thoroughly next time.|
Originally Posted by Savos
What a worthless IO.
Classes that benefit from this IO do not generally have any resist powers to slot it in outside of APP/PPP. Classes that have resistance powers have no need to reduce duration. As a kinetic, I get stunned, held, slept, etc a ridiculous amount of time and the one IO that purports to assist with this provides no viable assistance in that regard. What a terrible decision. A quick browsing through Mid's shows in the grab bag of Controller/Defender/Corruptor/Mastermind sets, there are 4: Arctic Fog (Cold Domination) Sonic Dispersion (Sonic Resonance) Steamy Mist (Storm Summoning) Shadow Fall (Dark Miasma) Four sets with viable spots out of 12 total Con/D/Cor/MM sets slot this IO outside pools or PPP/APP. Who in the world is this IO for? There were no worthwhile mentions in Blaster or Dominator sets. All ATs that have some interest in not getting mezzed, except perhaps perma-Dom Dominators. |
This IO is a godsend for Kheldians, even if it is just a reduction in duration. Slotted alongside a Steadfast -KB, you can turn the level 1 Kheldian auto-resists into something a little (please note the term little) like the Wolf Spider Armor power SoA's get.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
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So, you're saying no melee AT is ever challenged by anything in the game at any time? If so, that is simply ludicrous. |
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Interesting, but not an accurate point at an absolute level, also why melee has no challenge in the game.
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A Sapper is much more dangerous to a melee AT than it is to a ranged AT. Why? Because just about every ranged powerset in the game has SOME way to put that Sapper out of commission before ever being hit by it's end drain. Most melee powersets do not. Many do have mezzes in them, but they are all melee range mezzes. If a Sapper agros on you from across the room, and you don't have sufficient defense to avoid it, your endurance will be gone and you will be held before you can ever get close enough to mez it first.
Vanguard Sword mobs seem designed specifically to be difficult for melee ATs. My scrappers have a helluva time fighting them, while my blasters rip through them with relative ease. My Rad/Sonic defender had the easiest time against them, and he has no status protection and can't shoot while mezzed.
Devouring Earth can make melee ATs defenses useless, and it can be difficult at times to reach the emanators in order to dispose of them. A ranged AT doesn't have to move to kill the emanators. Rularuu and Nemesis can also be difficult.
Saying melee ATs are not challenged by anything is one of the more ridiculous statements I've heard recently.
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Remember that each Mez attack has a MAG potency, and so the "dangerousness" of a mez mob is dependent on its MAG potency and the victim's MAG defense. This why Support is so helpless against minions, they have MAG-0 to resist a MAG-1 Attack, a Tanker with MAG-12 potency defense, would need to be simultaneously striken by 13 mezzing mobs to be affected, I don't think it ever happens... So some MAG protection afforded to Support ATs, is not game breaking by any means, it just makes low end mobs not as dangerous, a level of danger they should never had in the first place. If a MAG 3 was to be given to Support ATs, it would let them resist 3 Mez minions attacks, but if they were attacked by a Mez Minion and Mez LT at the same time, they would have a 75% chance to resist, if they were hit by a Boss (MAG 3) it would be a 75% chance to resist, the same chance the boss would have to resist a controller's strongest mez! If the Controller was hit by both a LT and Boss, effective combined MEZ MAG 5, the Controller would have a 25% of shaking it, if a minion was to add their 10 cents, thus a boss, lt and minion, then the Support AT has NO chance,a nd is auto sent to la la la land. I would think a support getting hit by a boss, lt, and 1 minion (MAG 6 composite) to happen far more often than the MAG 12 composite needed to affect a tank. |
Do you know of any tanks, scrappers, brutes, or stalkers that can mez an enemy from 80 feet away earlier than level 41? I don't.
Now, of the support ATs, let's see how many of them have that ability.
Dominators and Controllers, well duh, that's what they do.
Defenders? Yup, every single powerset they have has at least one ranged mez power in it, except for energy blast, which has gobs of KB that can be used to similar effect. Corruptors? Only Fire Blast lacks a ranged mez power. Also, both Defenders and Corruptors have other means of mitigation that can be used to prevent being mezzed.
Masterminds? Yep, most have access to mez powers, and ALL of them can still give commands to their pets while mezzed. Kheldians have ranged mezzes as well.
Blasters have access to a mez power in every primary except Fire and Energy, and they can all fire 3 attacks while mezzed.
People who make a huge deal out of mez protection differences strike me as people who don't think any kind of strategy should be necessary to play the game.
The ATs that get mez protection have no way to prevent it at range, the ones who do not get it DO have the means to prevent it.
If your support AT cannot handle a single mezzing minion, I take that as also meaning you don't know how to effectively play your character.
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Originally Posted by Savos
Please read. The resistance is not applied, even negligible amounts of it as you infer. It only lasts 10 seconds, then mez duration goes back to 100% in combat monitor. Aegis Mez protection lists 20% resistance bonus, 1/(1 + 0.2) = 83.33% duration. This would be a significant help for a support class that is frequently in melee regardless of any other considerations. Ideally, this would be protection, but given the complete lack of options, this is the best I could find.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Generally in agreement, but some nitpicks below:
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How many armor sets have endurance drain protection? How many Stalkers worry about a single Sapper in a spawn? I actually worry far more about Mu (or Clockwork) in the lower levels, because endurance drain protection is hard-capped far below what most sets provide until late in your character's career.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
A Sapper is much more dangerous to a melee AT than it is to a ranged AT. Why? Because just about every ranged powerset in the game has SOME way to put that Sapper out of commission before ever being hit by it's end drain.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Do you know of any tanks, scrappers, brutes, or stalkers that can mez an enemy from 80 feet away earlier than level 41? I don't.
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If you're talking about the base range of a reliable mez, Defenders get two sets and Corruptors only get one set (Psi - which can go out to 100' - and Ice Blast only has BFR at 80'). The ranged mezzes are usually 60' range, with a couple of exceptions (Cosmic Burst is 40', Dark Pit is 70' and could hit 80' due to AoE size but can't target something at that range, and Power Push is 70' if you're counting it due to being the only 100% reliable KB in the set).
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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And this is why powers like Increase Density, Thaw, and Clarity exist. I have never seen an Empath or /Pain Domination not take Clear Mind or Enforced Morale, but have seen many /Kinetics, /Thermals, and /Sonics pass on taking their Mez Resist granting powers, mostly at lower levels. Hopefully i19 might help remedy that. USE EM!
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Which is precisely what occurs.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
If it's only lasting 10 seconds, it might be bugged.
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An IO being bugged is still not bait and switch.|
Originally Posted by Savos
Which is precisely what occurs.
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Which is a silly concept in this game anyway. Mind you, i feel almost the same way about the Triumphant Insult: Chance to Stun proc since a mag 1 stun doesn't affect anything but Underlings by itself, and for a long time it didn't even do that, but it was never a case of bait and switch.
And it did amuse me to refer to it as the Trumphant Insult: Chance To Do Nothing proc.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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I like the people who call the immobilize proc "Trap of the hunter chance to suck". Heh, Makes me smile every time.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
An IO being bugged is still not bait and switch.
Which is a silly concept in this game anyway. Mind you, i feel almost the same way about the Triumphant Insult: Chance to Stun proc since a mag 1 stun doesn't affect anything but Underlings by itself, and for a long time it didn't even do that, but it was never a case of bait and switch. And it did amuse me to refer to it as the Trumphant Insult: Chance To Do Nothing proc. |
I also always shake my head at the touch of death proc. only one with a 15% chance to fire instead of 20%. If it is because of doing negative energy, the dev's are on drugs because Lady Grey's proc has 20% and it also deals negative.
Personally, I think almost all the procs need a little rebalancing. Not a lot, but a small nudge.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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It's semi-bugged, but overall just just awful all around. It works, but it only works for 10 seconds after using the power. I was expecting a full time buff a la Steadfast 3% and -KB, but instead got something totally pointless and ineffective.|
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
An IO being bugged is still not bait and switch.
Which is a silly concept in this game anyway. Mind you, i feel almost the same way about the Triumphant Insult: Chance to Stun proc since a mag 1 stun doesn't affect anything but Underlings by itself, and for a long time it didn't even do that, but it was never a case of bait and switch. And it did amuse me to refer to it as the Trumphant Insult: Chance To Do Nothing proc. |
I'd say that qualifies.
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Lady Gray is also not optimal for melee attacks, and there are less powers that Fit Lady Gray than Touch of Death.
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
I like the people who call the immobilize proc "Trap of the hunter chance to suck". Heh, Makes me smile every time.
I also always shake my head at the touch of death proc. only one with a 15% chance to fire instead of 20%. If it is because of doing negative energy, the dev's are on drugs because Lady Grey's proc has 20% and it also deals negative. Personally, I think almost all the procs need a little rebalancing. Not a lot, but a small nudge. |
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Mmm...
Melee do have some challenge, but not nearly as significant as non-melee experience. If you read the posts in these forums, asking for more chalenge, they are coming from melee, why would this be?
The zapper for instance is one of the very few challenge4s melee do have, not only they can one-shot zapp their endurance, they are also placed around corners and places very hard to target in advance or from a distance; making them that much more hazardous. but the Zapper's range can reach those so called ranged as well. I can agree with you, at one time, range was protection, and that ranged attacks could provide effective protection; but frankly that is not entirely true either.
What I am looking for is aless black and white approach to mez attack protection, and allow shades of grey.
Stormy
In short, the IO sucks. Use breakfree's.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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May be useful on a tank fighting heavy mezzers (malta/carnies/etc).
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Originally Posted by Savos
What a worthless IO.
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Yeah, this proc has a long history of strange behavior. It used to be that this proc applied it's bonus in 5% increments, so once you used the power you received 5% resistance indefinitely, up to 25% resistance after you'd used the power 5 times. (In a toggle power it would increase by 5% every 10 seconds until it hit the 25% mark.) So basically the proc worked by adding a set bonus which saturated at the five bonus mark.|
Originally Posted by Savos
It's semi-bugged, but overall just just awful all around. It works, but it only works for 10 seconds after using the power. I was expecting a full time buff a la Steadfast 3% and -KB, but instead got something totally pointless and ineffective.
I'd say that qualifies. |
In i17 they finally modified the proc so that the bonus was applied all at once, but now only provides 20% status resist instead of 25% and the benefit now expires after 10 seconds rather than being permanent until zoning. (In a toggle power, it applies as long as the toggle is active, even if you are mezzed)
Unfortunately, seeing as the devs changed the proc to work in its current method, I would suspect that it is working as intended. I bugged it back in i17, but I wouldn't expect a change on it any time soon, if ever. That said, I do slot one in Steamy Mist.
Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
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Posts like this are endearing and bring up good points. The poster doesn't come across as hyperbolic at all.
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Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Mmm...
Hate to say this, but the devs likes having the support ATs 100% vulnerable to status effects, its their cheesy way to add challenge to content. Want to make the mission harder? Want more in game challenge? Easy! Add more ambushes that opens up with spam AOE mez! that's it, presto, more challenge! Wohooo! Since that is their mentality, the chance that they will give up their cheesy way to add challenge to the game, by letting Support ATs actually resist a mez attack! Ha ha ha ha, Never gonna happen! They gave support ATs 2 baby pacifiers, break frees and reduced duration mez effect IOs! so shut up and start sucking, game is working as dev's intended! When it gets to reduced duration, all I can do is laugh, and laugh, and laugh, and wish I could be mentally challenged and not notice how pointless that is! When one considers how long the durations of mob mez's are, even if by some miracle you could cut by half the duration, its all pointless anyway, ha ha ha... So instead of being mezzed by 15 seconds, I am mezzed by 7 seconds, ha ha ha, I am usually dead in 3 seconds by the mob ambush (since they go mez, melee, mez, melee pattern of attack, and lately tend to spawn right on top of you), so that made an awesome difference, right?, ha ha ha ha! Must suck pacifier harder, maybe it will make a difference... As of the introduction of IO sets, many support ATs have gone the route to soft cap defense as a mitigation to the over excessive use of mez (since there is absolutely nothing that can be effectively done to protect from it); but as we can see now, a new batch of mobs are coming out with new high to-hit-buffs or buff others that are making defense pointless, guess we can chalk it up to increased challenge, ha ha ha, this is so balanced, it's simply genius (ends sarcasm). Stormy |
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
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What a worthless IO.
Classes that benefit from this IO do not generally have any resist powers to slot it in outside of APP/PPP. Classes that have resistance powers have no need to reduce duration.
Adding on to this, click based resist powers that accept the Aegis IO do not work effectively at all. You keep the 3% psionic resist, but the only time you gain 20% status resist is for 10 seconds following the casting of the power.
Better hope you have a toggle!
Awful.
As a kinetic, I get stunned, held, slept, etc a ridiculous amount of time and the one IO that purports to assist with this provides no viable assistance in that regard.
What a terrible decision.
A quick browsing through Mid's shows in the grab bag of Controller/Defender/Corruptor/Mastermind sets, there are 4:
Arctic Fog (Cold Domination)
Sonic Dispersion (Sonic Resonance)
Steamy Mist (Storm Summoning)
Shadow Fall (Dark Miasma)
Four sets with viable spots out of 12 total Con/D/Cor/MM sets slot this IO outside pools or PPP/APP. Who in the world is this IO for? There were no worthwhile mentions in Blaster or Dominator sets. All ATs that have some interest in not getting mezzed, except perhaps perma-Dom Dominators.