Bait and switch Aegis Mez protection.

Slot it in a toggle (every non-melee AT has access to Dmg Res toggles at lvl 41). Problem solved.

Aww. You'll always be mentally challenged to me.

I read the IO and it says "Reduces mez duration by 20%" (*). In reality I get zero effective reduction when slotting into click powers.

* - I'd accept either 83.33% duration or 80% duration depending on the way the buff is calculated.

Every effect IO bonus only works for a limited time after the activation of a click power. If you want full time protection, slot it into a toggle. You not understanding how IOs work isn't a "bait and switch".

Those that work for a limited time say they are limited in duration after using. And they last 120 seconds.

10 seconds and not listed at all is quite different from the expected, by the wording, permanent bonus a la the 3% psi resist *ON THE SAME IO*.

The "always on" effects on the IO itself ( not as part of a set bonus ) are only triggered when the power is active. In an always on passive power, they actually pulse every x number of seconds, but have a limited duration, indefinitely. In a toggle, they act the same, but only as long as the power is turned on. In a click, they pulse when you click, but expire after a set duration until you click again. This is nothing new, and sure as hell not unique to the IO in question. Check the wiki, this behavior has been explained there for ages.

Edit: Minor correction, some special IOs are always on, period. Some are "procs", which trigger as I explained above. The one in question falls into the latter category. They won't necessarily say outright that they're a proc, which is kinda why you need to check up on these things rather than making assumptions.

Here, Proc IOs explained: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Invent...ncements#Procs

End drain resistance, not protection. The only armor set that won't be completely drained by a sapper after 2 shots is Electric Armor.

There is no armor set in the game that is completely immune to it.



A 60 foot mez power is still more than your average melee character gets without dipping into APP/PPP powers. An Empathy/Sonic defender that has Screech has more ability to nullify a Sapper at range than a BS/DA/Body scrapper will EVER have. Yes, Dark Armor has some end drain resistance, but it by no means makes them immune to it.

Point is, a support AT is still playable with no mez protection, because nearly every set available, with very few exceptions, has some sort of ability to nullify a mezzing enemy at range. A melee AT with no mez protection would not be playable, for the same reason, they lack the ability to prevent ranged mezzes.

If you stripped away the mez protection from melee characters they would quite literally be completely helpless against a ranged mezzer. With no passive mez protection, a melee character such as a tank, who is meant to attract the attention of enemies, would be unable to do their job.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

There are three types of IOs.

Procs - the "Chance to's" - these are what have the short self-buffs.

120s - Activation follows the same rules as procs, always afect the user, and duration is either Perma (in auto powers), as long as the power is on (in toggles) or for 120 seconds after the power is used (in clicks) - these all say "for 120s".

Globals - they work as a set bonus, differentiated from 120s by the lack of a listed duration.

Aegis is a Global - listed in the WIKI you just linked to as a global, not "Special" or "See notes".

Based on THE REST OF THE GAME, it's bugged.

Really? Not entirely sure what you're addressing here, so I'll respond to both possibilities. One of them is bound to be the correct point.

The TANK who is being hit by every single mez effect an 8 man spawn can throw at him doesn't need mag 10 protection?

If you start giving support ATs mag 3 protection, you might as well just remove mezzes from the game completely for all the threat they would be. Since, after all, you can adjust difficulty setting so that you will never encounter more than that at a time.

How is it not fair that the enemy mobs can do the same thing to us that we can do to them? A controller can hold them, but their enemy shouldn't be allowed to do the same thing? That's like saying enemy mobs shouldn't be allowed to attack a scrapper in melee.

Or are you saying enemy mobs shouldn't be allowed to mez defenders? Somehow I don't think it's possible to cause the AI to distinguish between them and change what they attack with.

Pretty simple equation really. Support ATs can mez the enemy at range, thus they can be mezzed in return. Melee ATs cannot mez the enemy at range, thus they (usually) cannot be mezzed.

You want mez protection on support ATs? You'll probably have to give up some of their mezzing effectiveness to get it.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Are you sure about that? My Spines/Dark Scrapper seems able to ignore multiple Sappers...they do knock down his endurance, but not completely...and he has negligible defense (Steadfast 3% and Combat Jumping).

This is what I meant. This is also the reason why scrapper, brutes and tanks can just solo huge spawns without much effort. Most support sets provide additional mez protection as well, so if more is needed it is practical to get.

With just acrobatics against mobs with holds I mostly ignore them anyway. Even on teams with lackluster aggro control post Fulcrum Shift or first strike.

Giving -10 is way too much.

No, it's not. Take a tank up against a large spawn of Carnies. You'll realize quite quickly that sometimes even -10 won't save you in that circumstance. And considering that Tankers are pretty much made to take that alpha strike, they do need that high level of protection at points.

No it isn't. If there is enough mez flying around to incapacitate the tank, how long do you think the rest of the team will last once he's out of commission? (having been in that situation before, I can assure you it is between 15 and 30 seconds, depending on how much damage is coming in along with those mezzes)

Melee ATs have such a high amount of mez protection because it is necessary for them to do their job. Unless you think a tank should NEED an Empath, Thermal, Sonic or Pain Dom along to stand a chance in hell of holding the agro of an enemy group that throws a lot of mez.

The only melee AT that a case can be made for getting less is stalkers, and they've been shafted so many times that would just be kicking them when they're down.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

I suppose if I'm posting a nitpick, I shouldn't use "protection" since when referring to mezzes in this particular game it means something different than "a manner of mitigation", but I meant for the term to cover more than simply drain resistance: for example, all of the defense-based sets care far less about Sappers than Fiery Aura because they're just not very likely to get hit. I know that my Energy Aura, Ninjitsu, Super Reflexes, and Shields characters don't worry much about getting drained, and none of those sets has drain resistance and only EA has a means of refilling. True, no set - even Electric Armor - is completely immune to endurance drain and recovery debuffs, but a large number of the sets could care less by the time you start running into Malta.


And yet this is exactly what was done in i13's PvP revamp, so while I mostly agree with the point, it doesn't appear that the developers do.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

It's debatable whether or not you can count VEATs and Dominators as "support ATs"... so the other exception would be a Controller with Psi Mastery.

None of those seem to give up a great deal, unless you mean "not taking Fireball" for the Controller.

Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.

Originally Posted by Brillig It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.

So, if 8x spawns aren't a big deal at +4 without a tank, why do support ATs need mez protection again? You kinda shot your own argument in the foot here. If your support ATs can run on a team of 8 at +4 without a tank.....arguing that they still need mez protection is kind of ridiculous.

Except it's NOT unbeatable. If you've ever fought Carnies on a full team, you have seen situations where a tank, scrapper, or brute will get held. If a spawn shows up with a Master Illusionist and 2 regular Illusionists in it (which happens quite frequently), you have a lot of non-positional psionic mez right there already. Add to that the fact that Master Illusionists will spawn 3 more Illusionists and you have SIX mag 2 holds coming in at you that almost no one will be able to avoid (since I can't think of a whole lot of builds that can achieve large amounts of Psi defense), and if the Dark Servant the MI also spawns happens to tag you with Petrifying Gaze, you will be held through any amount of hold protection you have.

2 Malta Hercules Titans can hold a tank quite easily. They have a missile that leaves a patch of basically autohit hold. If a tank stands in that patch for too long, it will quickly overpower hold protection.

I don't know if I'm just that good, or if the people complaining are either that bad or just unlucky, but I haven't felt like lack of mez protection was really that big of a disadvantage to my support characters. Yes, I DO play more than just melee characters. If I get mezzed, the first thing *I* think is "Damn, I should have been paying closer attention and got him first" instead of "What? I got held? That is SO UNFAIR!"

You're basically trying to convince me that it's a good idea to reduce the amount of mez protection that melee ATs get. And it's not going to work. They need enough mez protection to do their job, and I already gave a couple examples of situations that will overpower their current level of mez protection. If you reduce it a tank, brute, or scrapper will need to have an Empath babysitting them at all times to be at all useful on a team. People are finally getting that the "pure healer" isn't any more necessary than a pure meatshield, why do you want to change it so it is?

I don't know if you came from a game where the tank/healer/dps trinity is in full swing (doesn't seem like it since you're advocating relying less on the tank), but your idea of reducing mez protection for melee ATs will make that playstyle necessary here as well. The fact that it ISN'T necessary is one of the best things about this game.

So, wait...let me make sure I have this straight.

You're suggesting that the devs completely revamp mez protection/resistance for player characters, change the duration of every single mez in the game, and reduce the number of enemies that have mez powers....just to solve a problem you have with a single IO?

Or are you asking so your defender can solo at the same difficulty as your scrapper with the same ease?

You may not be aware of this....but the ATs are not designed to be equally proficient at everything in the game. They never were, nor should they be. Every AT has something it does better than another AT, and that other AT has something it does better as well.

If you really want everything to be equal, I can go along with that. I want my tank to be able to buff his teammates to godlike status. I want my scrapper to be able to completely neuter 8 man spawns. Give me those things and you can have your equal mez protection.

Here's a challenge for you: Name one thing a well built melee AT (of any powerset combination) can do that not a single equally well built support AT (of any powerset combination) can do. This assumes equal skill, and equal budgets for the builds. Just one thing that a tank, scrapper, brute or stalker can do that a controller, defender, corruptor, or mastermind can't.

The only way a Controller will have full time mez protection is with enough recharge to make Indomitable Will permanent. And let's face it, if you have a build with that much recharge (which pretty much requires purples)....you probably aren't going to be having too many problems with mez.

And besides....Fissure is a better AoE than Fireball anyway

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

I just wanted to say that I agree with Claws' overview on the situation in the thread but always wanted to throw in my own experience of a tank being mezzed.

I was on a Posi TF (part 1 I think) with my Invulnerable tank and we were fighting some CoT. We had accidently aggro'd two mobs and I was trying my best to contain them. At one point I had 4 ruin mages on me all spamming their attacks and at one point I actually got held. It was only for a few seconds but it was enough make me double check my toggles were running (which they were). So it is possible for mezzing mobs to easily stack a hold on a melee AT so I think the 10 is just right.

As for the Aegis Mez protection I would never put it in a click power. Although I would never put a power that has limited duration in a click power (including the ones that last 120s), I always put them in toggles or auto powers. I use it in Steamy Mist on my Grav/Storm and stack it with other set bonuses such as the ones from Expedient Reinforcement. Every little helps IMO!

Member of GGRRR, a SG on Defiant - check out our website - GGRRR

Originally Posted by Zwillinger Quote: 16. Has Paragon Studios redefined "player" to require your mouse to subscribe separately from your keyboard? If your mouse has greater processing power than your gfx card, the answer is yes.

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

You may not be aware, our characters do not start out at low levels with the full mez protection they enjoy at high levels. On a Posi TF your Tanker would have had less than 10 mez protection.

I can't seem to find a reference for how the protection varies with level.

Since when was Tough a PPP?