Best AT for Kinetics
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2010-11-11 14:22 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I've been having a lot of fun with an Elec Control/Kinetics Controller, but I haven't gotten up high enough to throw Gremlins and Fulcrum Shift into the mix yet.
The AoE sleep power really helps with the aggro so far, though.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
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Controller
For what you're suggesting Fire/Kin or Plant/Kin Controller may be ideal. But it's a rough journey to the 30s if you try to solo that part.
If you want to try to "fix" your Corruptor, look to the Psi APP. Slept enemies don't react when you open with Fulcrum Shift, so it gives you more set up time. If approaching a group while injured you can also sleep them and steal HP from them.
The best defense is enemies who can't attack, so a Controller with a good method of AoE control that is available every spawn (like Fire or Plant) is your best bet. There's a reason Fire/Kins are the farmer of choice... get enough recharge and you can just Flashfire + Fire Cages every mob and move in to use Fulcrum Shifted Hot Feet and whatever AoE you pick from your epic pool.
That said, I prefer Plant to Fire for mitigation. Seeds of Confusion is absolutely wonderful, and Plant has decent AoE damage. Not as much as Fire, but decent, and the mobs are attacking each other so that adds more.
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does this controller method work even on bosses and is it good in Task Force missions.
I should have mentioned I would like to do those as well.
I have two RL friends I will be hunting with for the most part.
One is a ss/sd brute and the other is a plant/rad controller.
I am looking for something that would complement them as well.
I know Kinetics will be one of my powers. I just cant seem to choose the second one.
To be honest I was not expecting the controller would be the pick.
I thought maybe the defender because of the fact they can get more defense.
I read something like 45 S/L/E 45 Range not sure if that can be done or not though.
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Given your allies and the fact that you're set on Kin.....I'd go with dark/kin cor or kin/dark defender. Adding the to_hit debuff from dark blast will make the enemy hit much less often and with a brute, a kin, and a rad troller you'll want that more than a little more damage.
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Originally Posted by InUse
does this controller method work even on bosses and is it good in Task Force missions.
I should have mentioned I would like to do those as well. I have two RL friends I will be hunting with for the most part. One is a ss/sd brute and the other is a plant/rad controller. I am looking for something that would complement them as well. I know Kinetics will be one of my powers. I just cant seem to choose the second one. To be honest I was not expecting the controller would be the pick. I thought maybe the defender because of the fact they can get more defense. I read something like 45 S/L/E 45 Range not sure if that can be done or not though. |
Mastermind! :P
Personally, a kinetics character will have their hands full with just the kinetics set. Choose a matching powerset that's a bit hands-off to really maximize effectiveness. Currently, that is usually controllers, especially once they get pets. Defenders have better numbers, and a good kin defender is quite a sight to behold. But really being good with kinetics is easier on a controller.
For your planned team, a kinetics corrupter could be the best choice, if you can handle all the kinetics stuff while also blasting. I've tried it as a defender, it wore me out. Lots of respect to those who can handle it.
I am probably an aoe damage *****, so I like duel pistal or archery/kin, for the FS - then open up aoe hell on them
Well, thanks for trying everyone maybe kinetics is just not for me. After reading the forums back to 2009 I just cant seem to find a kinetics set that peaks my interest.
I think COH is at the top of my list with; what character should I play today 
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Kinetics is great but I find whenever I am playing a char with kinetics I'm always kinning and barely have time to do other things, its what made me abandon my energy/kin corruptor.
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Originally Posted by Khenal_Baroney
Mastermind! :P
Personally, a kinetics character will have their hands full with just the kinetics set. Choose a matching powerset that's a bit hands-off to really maximize effectiveness. Currently, that is usually controllers, especially once they get pets. Defenders have better numbers, and a good kin defender is quite a sight to behold. But really being good with kinetics is easier on a controller. For your planned team, a kinetics corrupter could be the best choice, if you can handle all the kinetics stuff while also blasting. I've tried it as a defender, it wore me out. Lots of respect to those who can handle it. |
Going Defender will give you the maximum benefit in terms of numbers. The powers of Defender Kinetics are actually stronger (more HP per heal, more Damage per Fulcrum Shift... etc...) than when other sets take it. On the other hand, if you go Controller, then you get a pet who can benefit from your buffs even when you're not on a team.
So... I would say skip "Siphon Power", because it's just not worth the hassle to try and keep that buff current all the time, and use Controller Electricity as your primary, because the End Drain effects of Transfusion and Transference stack nicely with Electric Control's end drain effects to help you get enemies down to zero end so they can't fight back.
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With that combo of a Shield Brute and a Plant/Rad controller? I would lean towards something with a lot of AoE . . . like a Fire/Kin Corrupter. I can see an easy strategy: Brute goes in to gather foes up into a tight group. Plant/Rad goes in to hit them with Seeds+Roots. Fire/Kin Corr goes in to Fulcrum Shift and then Rain of Fire while the Plant/Rad debuffs with EF and more Roots. By then, all the minions are dead and the Lieuts are pretty close to it.
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Originally Posted by InUse
does this controller method work even on bosses and is it good in Task Force missions.
I should have mentioned I would like to do those as well. I have two RL friends I will be hunting with for the most part. One is a ss/sd brute and the other is a plant/rad controller. I am looking for something that would complement them as well. I know Kinetics will be one of my powers. I just cant seem to choose the second one. To be honest I was not expecting the controller would be the pick. I thought maybe the defender because of the fact they can get more defense. I read something like 45 S/L/E 45 Range not sure if that can be done or not though. |
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Local, That may be my biggest issue. I cant find another Kinetics I want to play as much as I do fire/kin.
I keep banging my head against the wall trying to find something that will equal his buffs along with his damage and it just isn't happening.
Kin was made to be played with Fire.[/thread] Ice/kin corr comes close due to blaster level rain and nuke. There are other obvious picks for synergy, but if you look at what Kin is really about, Fire is the most logical pairing.
Fire/Kin trollers really are amazing. I know there are an army of them out there, but once you get one to level 38 you'll see why. Total lockdown and amazing damage. Few things, even when IO'd out, can come close to doing as much damage with as much safety as an F/K 'troller can do on nothing but SOs or common IOs.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
Kin was made to be played with Fire.[/thread]
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Okay. I haven't read the thread itself, just responding to the original post, so if this stuff has already been addressed and I'm just repeating it, yeah, sorry.
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Okay. Big problem here. The buff archtypes have deliberate minimal resistances and protections against mez effects in the game. Outside of the anti-mez fields in the Sonic Resonance and Force Field power sets, only Controllers get any mez-protection with Indomitable Will. Even then, IW is a level 41 Epic Power, and you'd need to be pretty much at hard recharge cap for it to be perma.|
Originally Posted by InUse
Trying to maximize damage along with survivability (Mez)
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So, your basic request here, isn't one you are ever going to fill.
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| I really enjoy getting the defender powers quicker but afraid I will find myself at 50 wondering why I didn't go with another AT. With the cap at 400 it seems a bit of a waste to me. |
While Corruptors do get 100% more damage boost than controllers or defenders, raw damage is only one factor. The majority of a corruptors damage comes late in the HP bar of an opponent when scourge kicks in and they start doing double damage.
Controllers, by comparison, get double damage as long as any mez effect is applied to an opponent.
Defenders get a Damage buff when they are solo or with up to two team-mates, and have stronger buff / debuffs.
Then there's the matter of the power sets themselves.
Case in point, Archery. Archery is largely made up of a large number of single strike shots, and only has two powers that benefit from scourges double damage on damage over time: blazing arrow and rain of arrows. While all attacks have a chance for double damages, that overall damage becomes limited.
So, does the higher potential damage cap on a corrupter off-set the stronger buffs / debuffs of a Defender? Does it offset the control offered by a controller?
That is up to any particular player to decide for themselves. There is no hard only one way to go answer. Each archtype has it's own strengths and weaknesses.
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| Right now I am doing FS then pretty much face plant. |
Fulcrum Shift, as a power, is designed for your team-mates to take advantage of. If you are getting into Melee range on a regular basis, you need to back up.
Control Sets with good alpha mitigation capabilities are often used as platforms to drive players buffing themselves with FS. One of the reasons the Fire / Kinectics Controller rose in popularity as a farming solution is that fire control offers both a perception debuff in smoke, and a stun debuff in Flashfire. Those particular debuffs can give Fire / Kins time to get into melee range and leverage fulcrum shift for themselves.
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| even with 45/S/L with my Fire/Kin corruptor. |
No really. There are a couple basic problems with obsessing after defense. Your archtype, the corruptor archtype, has no defense debuff resistance. This means that it's only going to take one single attack landing with a defense debuff, and you no longer have any defense.
The larger the mob that you enounter, the more chances the enemy has to penetrate your defenses, and the more likely you will be going splat.
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| Its the mez that is killing me most of the time and I never seem to have enough Break Frees. |
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| Just wonder if maybe there is another AT out there that may be better suited for this role. |
To put it bluntly, what you are trying to do, the developers don't want you to do. It's known as blapping, named after players who played blasters like scrappers trying to take advantage of the old blaster defiance.
In order for what you want to work as you want it to work, you pretty much have to cherry pick which enemies you fight, making sure to only take on opponents with smashing or lethal damages and no mez effects.
Now, if you are dead set on using a ranged archtype in a non-ranged combat situation, your best bet is going to be controllers, and from what it sounds like you want, you might as well go ahead and make the flavor of the it's going to get nerfed again and ruin it for everybody else Fire / Kin.
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There are a couple of ways to mitigate this. First, Ranged defense is your friend. The vast majority of holds are ranged attacks (a couple are flagged as only psionic with no positional type, but most are flagged ranged), so if you can get around 33% Ranged defense you only need one Luck to softcap it, and if you are fighting large spawns you tend to get plenty of inspirations. The even better solution is to not use Fulcrum Shift when there are a lot of mobs that can attack you. On a Corruptor, that means waiting for a sturdier teammate like a Brute or Tank to grab aggro, while on a Controller it means locking most of the spawn down with an every-spawn control like Flashfire or Seeds of Confusion first. If you are solo as a Corruptor and trying to fight large spawns, I'd suggest popping Lucks and a Break Free before jumping in to use Fulcrum Shift, and staying at range with softcapped (either naturally or 33% + a Luck) Ranged defense until you need to fire off FS again. But really, /Kin Corruptors are better for team support than soloing... as I mentioned before nothing beats having the mobs unable to attack you at all for mitigation, and that's a Controller's specialty. And since /Kin Controllers essentially do double capped damage all the time due to Containment they hit plenty hard if you take an offensive set like Fire or Plant. And since those sets also have the best every-spawn controls, you probably will take one...
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Yeah, here's the thing. Many mez attacks, such as sleep or hold, are not delivered through smashing / lethal damage attacks. The mez attack most often coupled with smashing / lethal / energy attacks is stun. You are getting hit by enemies with attacks you have no protection against.
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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
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I like it on all ATs. Seems easier on a controller.
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Defense is far....FAR from meaningless. Defense debuffs are easily counteracted by using inspirations like purples if you have softcapped defense, but no DDR.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Okay. Defense is meaningless.
No really. There are a couple basic problems with obsessing after defense. Your archtype, the corruptor archtype, has no defense debuff resistance. This means that it's only going to take one single attack landing with a defense debuff, and you no longer have any defense. |
With that said, it's hard to beat a Fire/Kin Corr, personally I would stick with it. You can always pick up Acrobatics to give you some hold protection. Ranged defense can save you from being mezzed more than S/L defense, but it's harder to softcap.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Okay. I haven't read the thread itself, just responding to the original post, so if this stuff has already been addressed and I'm just repeating it, yeah, sorry.
Okay. Big problem here. The buff archtypes have deliberate minimal resistances and protections against mez effects in the game. Outside of the anti-mez fields in the Sonic Resonance and Force Field power sets, only Controllers get any mez-protection with Indomitable Will. Even then, IW is a level 41 Epic Power, and you'd need to be pretty much at hard recharge cap for it to be perma. So, your basic request here, isn't one you are ever going to fill. Requisite link to damage caps: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Damage_Cap#Damage While Corruptors do get 100% more damage boost than controllers or defenders, raw damage is only one factor. The majority of a corruptors damage comes late in the HP bar of an opponent when scourge kicks in and they start doing double damage. Controllers, by comparison, get double damage as long as any mez effect is applied to an opponent. Defenders get a Damage buff when they are solo or with up to two team-mates, and have stronger buff / debuffs. Then there's the matter of the power sets themselves. Case in point, Archery. Archery is largely made up of a large number of single strike shots, and only has two powers that benefit from scourges double damage on damage over time: blazing arrow and rain of arrows. While all attacks have a chance for double damages, that overall damage becomes limited. So, does the higher potential damage cap on a corrupter off-set the stronger buffs / debuffs of a Defender? Does it offset the control offered by a controller? That is up to any particular player to decide for themselves. There is no hard only one way to go answer. Each archtype has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Okay. First lesson in Kinetics 101: Your buffs are not for you. Fulcrum Shift, as a power, is designed for your team-mates to take advantage of. If you are getting into Melee range on a regular basis, you need to back up. Control Sets with good alpha mitigation capabilities are often used as platforms to drive players buffing themselves with FS. One of the reasons the Fire / Kinectics Controller rose in popularity as a farming solution is that fire control offers both a perception debuff in smoke, and a stun debuff in Flashfire. Those particular debuffs can give Fire / Kins time to get into melee range and leverage fulcrum shift for themselves. Okay. Defense is meaningless. No really. There are a couple basic problems with obsessing after defense. Your archtype, the corruptor archtype, has no defense debuff resistance. This means that it's only going to take one single attack landing with a defense debuff, and you no longer have any defense. The larger the mob that you enounter, the more chances the enemy has to penetrate your defenses, and the more likely you will be going splat. Yeah, here's the thing. Many mez attacks, such as sleep or hold, are not delivered through smashing / lethal damage attacks. The mez attack most often coupled with smashing / lethal / energy attacks is stun. You are getting hit by enemies with attacks you have no protection against. Short version. No. To put it bluntly, what you are trying to do, the developers don't want you to do. It's known as blapping, named after players who played blasters like scrappers trying to take advantage of the old blaster defiance. In order for what you want to work as you want it to work, you pretty much have to cherry pick which enemies you fight, making sure to only take on opponents with smashing or lethal damages and no mez effects. Now, if you are dead set on using a ranged archtype in a non-ranged combat situation, your best bet is going to be controllers, and from what it sounds like you want, you might as well go ahead and make the flavor of the it's going to get nerfed again and ruin it for everybody else Fire / Kin. |
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I noticed you like to do TFs. Might I recommend an Ice/Kin corruptor. It's one of the few sets that can drop their Teir 9 damage power (blizzard) and refill their end bar instantly to keep the fight going. Seriously, dropping an Aim/Soul Drain/Fulcrum Shifted Blizzard is a thing of beauty. I took Ghost Widow for PBu/Veng on my team build. I use Psi Epic and 3 holds on my solo build. It's pretty versatile to say the least.
After starting up a new account (lost the old info, didn't care enough to get it back) .. The bit above is terrible terrible terrible. That rabble above about your buffs not being for you is about as wrong as it gets with kins. EPICALLY corrupter kins. The day kins (esp fire/kin trollers and corruptors) stop darting in for FS, will be roughly in Dec. 2012 (oh noes, end of the world)
I had 3 /kin's IO'd to the teeth at 50, and probably enjoyed the AR kin the most. Naturally this was because I spent alot of time TV farming but hey, he was good in TF's too!
FS yourself and spam your crashless pewpew AoE with the AR, or get wicked with blizzard and some ice effects in TF's. Both are good. The cookie cutter Fire/Kin is always decent as well.. but pretty standard. (And standard is boring)
It's terribly easy to SB/FS everyone and have plenty of time to lay the smack down, (or debuffs) - Keep an eye on health and end and don't go too overboard DPSing in a group. Don't get too hung up on the buffs, once you get a routine down, it really becomes abit more about your DPS/Control pairing.
Also, if you go Cor, pick up Vengeance. This monkey-business (pardon the pun) will get put down soon enough, and the harder longer battles will come around again.
Fire/kin's are a dime a dozen on both sides. TBH sounds like you need an AR/Kin or Ice/Kin corrupter. Sonic is pretty nifty too at times, esp if you're going to be more TF/SF oriented.
It's honestly pretty hard to go wrong with any kind of kin, epically coupled with a top tier nuke, as kins have the easiest time recovering from the crash.
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Ditto for me on my Kin/Elec defender. Was awesome to play and helped a team alot, but was WAYYY! too much Kin-ing and not enough blasting for me. After 2-3 hours teaming, I was burned out.
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Originally Posted by Elimination
Couldn't have said it better myself. Kinetics is great but I find whenever I am playing a char with kinetics I'm always kinning and barely have time to do other things, its what made me abandon my energy/kin corruptor.
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BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Looking to mainly group leveling up but would enjoy to do other things on my own when I get to 50.
looking at
Kin/sonic
sonic/kin
Archery/kin
AR/kin
Fire/kin crpt
fire/kin Contr.
Trying to maximize damage along with survivability (Mez)
I really enjoy getting the defender powers quicker but afraid I will find myself at 50 wondering why I didn't go with another AT. With the cap at 400 it seems a bit of a waste to me.
Right now I am doing FS then pretty much face plant. even with 45/S/L with my Fire/Kin corruptor. Its the mez that is killing me most of the time and I never seem to have enough Break Frees. Just wonder if maybe there is another AT out there that may be better suited for this role.
Thanks