Best AT for Kinetics
By
Amy_Amp,
Posted on: 2010-11-11 14:22 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I made a DP/Kin Corr that's pretty fun. Add in Soul Drain and you get some pretty nice damage for the sets 'nova'.
I have a Elec /Kin troller an he is very fun an when i pick up soul drain , dark consuption an dark obliteration he will be a beast ( i think).
I have been on teams with fire /kin corruptors an the damage they pump out is awsome but I like being a troller since i like pets with SB.
I have an AR/Kin corrupter who stalled out around 32 because she just isn't a whole lot of fun. She's "okay" in teams and a chore to solo both in terms of damage and survivability. I'd re-roll her as something else (Kin isn't essential to her concept) except that I'm too lazy to grind out the Tommy Gun customization a second time.
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A mistake I made in the past, most DoTs still check for scourge once, when the attack hits. This is true with both the examples you've listed here. It doesn't matter if the DoT brings them closer and closer to Scourge levels, they only roll for Scourge when the attack first hits. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
Case in point, Archery. Archery is largely made up of a large number of single strike shots, and only has two powers that benefit from scourges double damage on damage over time: blazing arrow and rain of arrows. While all attacks have a chance for double damages, that overall damage becomes limited.
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Rain of Fire, Ice Storm and Blizzard are exceptions, they constantly recheck for Scourge at each tick because each individual tick makes a ToHit roll.
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Okay. First lesson in Kinetics 101: Your buffs are not for you. Fulcrum Shift, as a power, is designed for your team-mates to take advantage of. If you are getting into Melee range on a regular basis, you need to back up. Control Sets with good alpha mitigation capabilities are often used as platforms to drive players buffing themselves with FS. One of the reasons the Fire / Kinectics Controller rose in popularity as a farming solution is that fire control offers both a perception debuff in smoke, and a stun debuff in Flashfire. Those particular debuffs can give Fire / Kins time to get into melee range and leverage fulcrum shift for themselves. |
I've also never heard of Flashfire being described as "a Stun debuff". That's a misuse of the term "debuff"
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Okay. Defense is meaningless. No really. There are a couple basic problems with obsessing after defense. Your archtype, the corruptor archtype, has no defense debuff resistance. This means that it's only going to take one single attack landing with a defense debuff, and you no longer have any defense. |
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Short version. No. To put it bluntly, what you are trying to do, the developers don't want you to do. It's known as blapping, named after players who played blasters like scrappers trying to take advantage of the old blaster defiance. In order for what you want to work as you want it to work, you pretty much have to cherry pick which enemies you fight, making sure to only take on opponents with smashing or lethal damages and no mez effects. Now, if you are dead set on using a ranged archtype in a non-ranged combat situation, your best bet is going to be controllers, and from what it sounds like you want, you might as well go ahead and make the flavor of the it's going to get nerfed again and ruin it for everybody else Fire / Kin. |
Firstly Blapping was popular not because Blasters liked being at 10% HP so they'd have a big damage buff, but simply because the melee attacks hit hard. I've never seen any indication that the Devs didn't want people to do it either. In fact given that the last Control set (one of those "ranged ATs" you mention) added has a PBAOE Drain aura in it it's fairly obvious that you are simply wrong here.
It also means that Elec/Kin might be a good match for the OP. You can be Mr Super Sapper, although the damage before 38/41 (when you get Fulcrum Shift and APPs / PPPs) mightn't be the best.
Other possible "synergistic" combos can be Ice/Kin Controllers (Arctic Air gives you some melee ranged protection, but again you will have low damage for the first 50% of your existence), Rad or Elec / Kin corrupters or Defenders (Rad and Elec have a PBAOE attack, and in Elecs case this can go towards making you a fairly good sapper) and Sonic/Kin Defenders or Corruptors (Sonic is single target orientated and you can use the Sleep & Fulcrum Shift to Fulcrum in safety as it won't wake sleepers up).
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hahahahahaha. I don't know how I missed this. *tear*
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Okay. I haven't read the thread itself, just responding to the original post, so if this stuff has already been addressed and I'm just repeating it, yeah, sorry.
Okay. Big problem here. The buff archtypes have deliberate minimal resistances and protections against mez effects in the game. Outside of the anti-mez fields in the Sonic Resonance and Force Field power sets, only Controllers get any mez-protection with Indomitable Will. Even then, IW is a level 41 Epic Power, and you'd need to be pretty much at hard recharge cap for it to be perma. So, your basic request here, isn't one you are ever going to fill. Requisite link to damage caps: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Damage_Cap#Damage While Corruptors do get 100% more damage boost than controllers or defenders, raw damage is only one factor. The majority of a corruptors damage comes late in the HP bar of an opponent when scourge kicks in and they start doing double damage. Controllers, by comparison, get double damage as long as any mez effect is applied to an opponent. Defenders get a Damage buff when they are solo or with up to two team-mates, and have stronger buff / debuffs. Then there's the matter of the power sets themselves. Case in point, Archery. Archery is largely made up of a large number of single strike shots, and only has two powers that benefit from scourges double damage on damage over time: blazing arrow and rain of arrows. While all attacks have a chance for double damages, that overall damage becomes limited. So, does the higher potential damage cap on a corrupter off-set the stronger buffs / debuffs of a Defender? Does it offset the control offered by a controller? That is up to any particular player to decide for themselves. There is no hard only one way to go answer. Each archtype has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Okay. First lesson in Kinetics 101: Your buffs are not for you. Fulcrum Shift, as a power, is designed for your team-mates to take advantage of. If you are getting into Melee range on a regular basis, you need to back up. Control Sets with good alpha mitigation capabilities are often used as platforms to drive players buffing themselves with FS. One of the reasons the Fire / Kinectics Controller rose in popularity as a farming solution is that fire control offers both a perception debuff in smoke, and a stun debuff in Flashfire. Those particular debuffs can give Fire / Kins time to get into melee range and leverage fulcrum shift for themselves. Okay. Defense is meaningless. No really. There are a couple basic problems with obsessing after defense. Your archtype, the corruptor archtype, has no defense debuff resistance. This means that it's only going to take one single attack landing with a defense debuff, and you no longer have any defense. The larger the mob that you enounter, the more chances the enemy has to penetrate your defenses, and the more likely you will be going splat. Yeah, here's the thing. Many mez attacks, such as sleep or hold, are not delivered through smashing / lethal damage attacks. The mez attack most often coupled with smashing / lethal / energy attacks is stun. You are getting hit by enemies with attacks you have no protection against. Short version. No. To put it bluntly, what you are trying to do, the developers don't want you to do. It's known as blapping, named after players who played blasters like scrappers trying to take advantage of the old blaster defiance. In order for what you want to work as you want it to work, you pretty much have to cherry pick which enemies you fight, making sure to only take on opponents with smashing or lethal damages and no mez effects. Now, if you are dead set on using a ranged archtype in a non-ranged combat situation, your best bet is going to be controllers, and from what it sounds like you want, you might as well go ahead and make the flavor of the it's going to get nerfed again and ruin it for everybody else Fire / Kin. |
To the OP, I just wanted to cast my vote for my choice: Kin/Sonic defender. It takes you and your teammates not just to the damage cap, but beyond.
On your smallish (2 teammates) set team, perhaps this is a less compelling choice (maybe), where your individual orange numbers make up a good percent of team DPS. As team size grows though, and your -res attacks affects more teammates damage, the Kin/Sonic's effectiveness increases dramatically.
So, this is my own personal observation, from playing Kin for all 3 ATs, several times, I find the Fire/Kin Corruptor to be more satisfying for me, individually (FSd Fire Ball + RoF puts a lot of "You have defeated..." text in the combat window), but it's also my observations that teams tend to be more effective with the Kin/Sonic def, especially when you get to harder targets.
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Kinda sad to see there were no suggestions for Ill/Kin Troller, Ive had a blast with mine
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i agree. i have no trouble FSing PAed and flashed mobs, just have to do it before my phantasm scatters them all. although the new 'melee-rush' behavior has made it much easier to FS my phantasm before scattering the mob. plus FS helps with spectral wounds already awesome damage.
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Originally Posted by nytflyr
Kinda sad to see there were no suggestions for Ill/Kin Troller, Ive had a blast with mine
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50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004
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There are some synergy issues with Illusion/Kinetics. This includes things like Phanty's knockback knocking away your siphon target, PA can't be buffed, and Illusion is single target when Kinetics has a greater impact on AoE sets. Not saying that the combo is bad, but it is not the best to pair with Kinetics.|
Originally Posted by nytflyr
Kinda sad to see there were no suggestions for Ill/Kin Troller, Ive had a blast with mine
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Fire/Kin is popular for good reason. Plant/Kin is pretty darn good, too. Both are focused more on AoE damage.
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First let me say: ignore that bull doo doo about kinetic buffs being not for the kinetic. Total rubbish.
Second, your current trio sounds really stacked! Maybe you just need to work out tactics a bit. Give your plant and brute teammates a couple seconds to mitigate that first strike that mezzes you. If you Fulcrum shift before the spawn is mostly dead, with quick killing it can spill over to the subsequent groups.
Third, the mass hypnosis in psychic mastery, takes a big big chunk out of any alpha. I highly recommend that for kinetics.
Another idea, you and your plant teammate with your extra powers from I19 stamina respec could each take stimulant! That is a good power to have just one slot in.
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corrupter. Dunno why you seem to be having issues, I destroy stuff on my fire/kin corrupter and he is softcapped as well. Controllers will likely get you even more aggro and do less dmg -- but you can mez things before they mez you. Kin fender?? I'd still go with corruptor, sure that FS is nice at lower levesl but depends on how often you plan on being down there.|
Originally Posted by InUse
Trying to maximize damage along with survivability (Mez)
I really enjoy getting the defender powers quicker but afraid I will find myself at 50 wondering why I didn't go with another AT. With the cap at 400 it seems a bit of a waste to me. Right now I am doing FS then pretty much face plant. even with 45/S/L with my Fire/Kin corruptor. Its the mez that is killing me most of the time and I never seem to have enough Break Frees. Just wonder if maybe there is another AT out there that may be better suited for this role. |
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Okay. First lesson in Kinetics 101: Your buffs are not for you.
Fulcrum Shift, as a power, is designed for your team-mates to take advantage of. If you are getting into Melee range on a regular basis, you need to back up. |
Issue 24 PPM Calculator // The Great Makeover: The Vindicators
I always find Kinetics to be a little contradictory. You get all these wonderful +damage powers and you think to yourself "man I am going to hit so hard!"
It turns out your half right.
Everybody ELSE hits hard. You spend all your maintaining your Siphon Speed stack, FS'ing, SB'ing and then Transferring to keep your end up.
After that you throw out a few attacks then it's back to buff maintenance.
Everyone loves on a /Kin on the team since it means they don't have to bring theirs.
There is a fundamental flaw with "are your buffs for you / are your buffs for your allies". Your buffs are for you and your allies. They are AOE buffs for a reason.
I have great fun with a kin/rad defender but I quite consistently team her. The buffs make her damage output remarkable and her allies' damage output frankly terrifying, and we all have fun. Hooray!
je_saist just gave some of the worst advice I've ever seen.
Fulcrum Shift basically requires you to be in melee combat and is an incredible buff. It's for you and everyone around you. Even if it is just yourself and the melee characters, hit that buff and everything dies in 2 seconds from your AOEs.
Fulcrum Shift is just game changing and one of the defining powers of the whole game itself. If you aren't in melee with it then you don't know what you are doing.