Quote:
But the Fear debuff is a bit borked, because it spawns on the Target and not the caster. So if the target dies, no debuff.|
Originally Posted by Castle
Reposting from I19 Beta threads
|
It doesn't really make much sense
thanks for the clarification.
Quote:
I've always thought this was a bit counter-intuitive and backwards myself.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
But the Fear debuff is a bit borked, because it spawns on the Target and not the caster. So if the target dies, no debuff.
It doesn't really make much sense |
Scenario 1: You AS Fritz. He lives. His buddy George sees this go down.
George: "Oh my god, you severely wounded Fritz!" *cowers in fear*
Scenario 2: You AS Fritz. He dies.
George: "Oh my god, you killed Fritz! You dirty *******!" *blam blam blam blam blam*
Quote:
Wait, you consider being weaker in dps, AoE dps, survivability, and self-buffing a fair tradeoff for being able to quickly down a single problem lieutenant or having the chance to fear mobs around a boss?| At this point, they are about as strong as we want to make them |
The example of shared aggro is an extremely minor problem compared with the fact that people don't want them on teams because Scrappers/Brutes consistently outperform them in pretty much every way.
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Quote:
Don't forget Widows and Banes.
|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Wait, you consider being weaker in dps, AoE dps, survivability, and self-buffing a fair tradeoff for being able to quickly down a single problem lieutenant or having the chance to fear mobs around a boss?
The example of shared aggro is an extremely minor problem compared with the fact that people don't want them on teams because Scrappers/Brutes consistently outperform them in pretty much every way. |
Quote:
An AT taht is supposed to excel(sp?) at single target damage and still gets outperformed is balanced.|
Originally Posted by Castle
Reposting from I19 Beta threads
|
The Fear and Tohit debuff is pointless.
What a joke.
Thank you for the feedback Castle.
I will say that I hope you re-consider looking at Stalker AoE potential outside of Hide, but other than that, I am inclined to agree with your view point.
"getting aggro" Is the least of our problems castle.
Having a niche role with not much content that allows us to leverage that niche, and performing worse at that niche than other ATs is the problem.
Thanks for posting this Castle.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
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I too appreciate the candor. Not to be a nabob of negativity, but the Cliff Notes version I would write is "Hey Stalkers, sucks to be you".
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Quote:
I agree here, what you described in the the repost hardly ever happens to my stalker on a team. In fact there are times where if I never attack I never got aggro period even if everyone else was dead. I would say our biggest issue is the team contribution nothing else. Solo we are fine aside from the escort missions where the hostage cant seem to see more than 2 feet in front of themselves. That whole thing could be resolved if you just get rid of the hostage having too short perception range is more annoying than anything else. if an ambush is going to get us they gonna see me anyways so why make me give up potential damage due this? If you are worried it makes escorts too easy how is this any different than just chugging multiple inspirations or being softcapped so that I never get hit while bringing the hostage to the door?|
Originally Posted by Shadestorm
"getting aggro" Is the least of our problems castle.
Having a niche role with not much content that allows us to leverage that niche, and performing worse at that niche than other ATs is the problem. |
I think the team buff range needs to change and the fear effect changed to such that it radiates from the caster, aggro isnt the issue cuz they already will be aggroed on us anyways. If there are pvp concerns then make it where it doesnt effect players.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dark_Impact
George: "Oh my god, you killed Fritz! You dirty *******!" *blam blam blam blam blam*
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Those lousy stinking yellow fairies! Those horrible atrocity-filled vermin! Those despicable animal warmongers! They've killed Fritz! Take that! Take this! Take that, you green slime! You black hearted, short, bow-legged...
I agree.
At this point, Stalkers are well balanced as an archetype, but with the way mobs perceive enemies there are always going to be unfair moments. For example, playing a Mayhem Mission causes Longbow spawns which are aggroed on you to the point of absurdity, where you can fly to the top of the map, wait ten minutes and STILL have them hopping at the rafters to get to you. This nullifies Assassin's Strike entirely, unless you happen to be softcapped for defense, at which point you can chance it.
I interpret 'systematic' as to mean that the problem for Stalkers lies in the game mechanics themselves, mainly the AI, and that altering these systems to accommodate for Stalkers is the manpower-consuming task at hand.
It's reassuring to see that you (plural, the devs, Paragon Studios) have identified the problem with the precision of a laser-guided scalpel.
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Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.
Yeah, to add to what has been said, if I use placate, there is a chance my squishy teammate is crushed, so I feel like I can't use placate aggressively or defend my squishies on the team adequately when the brute or tank is tied up.
Thank god I play Elec and Spines ninjitsu stalkers.
I can see ALOT of solo farming to complete incarnate builds in the future for them.
This post is pretty much:
Stalkers underperform relative to brutes and Scrappers. Not enough resources are available to fix the issue as the dev team sees them. Good luck stalkers.
I guess its accepted that there cannot be made a convincing arguement why to include a stalker on a team instead of a brute or scrapper. I personally will stop trying to convince people to team with my stalkers.
I guess that is just ok.
EDIT: Oh and placate bug is just never getting fixed now is it?
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
But the Fear debuff is a bit borked, because it spawns on the Target and not the caster. So if the target dies, no debuff.
It doesn't really make much sense |
Is that it? Is that what it does?
When GR released, I made a Stalker because...I didn't have one, having deleted the few I'd made.
Anyway, I read the power descriptions, including Assassin Strike, since I was sure I had heard about changes to the AT at some point. The fear debuff sounded cool, but then it seemed to go off only once in a very great while. I wondered why they even bothered adding the mechanic since it so rarely occurred. I guess most of my targets died after the AS, so I was just never seeing it.
If that is how the mechanic works it is even more useless than I had previously thought. Having a low chance to occur would actually increase its use, since again, a vast majority of my AS targets are killed dead. Though I'd rather the effect just came from me and not the target.
To be fair, though, now that I know I can see ways to use this. It's a free extra hit on the AS target if it doesn't go down. Could also hit a LT/Boss, then attack the minions while they cower. But then, I don't know how long the effect lasts, or if most stalkers would be able to down a couple of minions before the LT/Boss recovers.
We often sit and think of you,
We often speak your name;
There is nothing left to answer,
But your photo in the frame.
-Anon.
Quote:
It's not super-powerful, but its far better at terrorizing minions than lts or bosses. Your best bet is to hit the heavy target with your AS. If it kills him, good for you, if not, it'll terrorize quite a few minions for what's usually long enough for you to finish off the big target. If you're a def based secondary, it's even nice in solo EV or AB fights for the -tohit.|
Originally Posted by Ossuary
Is that it? Is that what it does?
When GR released, I made a Stalker because...I didn't have one, having deleted the few I'd made. Anyway, I read the power descriptions, including Assassin Strike, since I was sure I had heard about changes to the AT at some point. The fear debuff sounded cool, but then it seemed to go off only once in a very great while. I wondered why they even bothered adding the mechanic since it so rarely occurred. I guess most of my targets died after the AS, so I was just never seeing it. If that is how the mechanic works it is even more useless than I had previously thought. Having a low chance to occur would actually increase its use, since again, a vast majority of my AS targets are killed dead. Though I'd rather the effect just came from me and not the target. To be fair, though, now that I know I can see ways to use this. It's a free extra hit on the AS target if it doesn't go down. Could also hit a LT/Boss, then attack the minions while they cower. But then, I don't know how long the effect lasts, or if most stalkers would be able to down a couple of minions before the LT/Boss recovers. |
It still makes little thematic sense that it's only effective when you don't kill someone outright. If anything I'd think the guy's friends would be MORE afraid when I just pop out of nowhere and instantly kill their boss.
Quote:
I can't tell you the last time I used AS on a team.|
Originally Posted by Shadestorm
It's not super-powerful, but its far better at terrorizing minions than lts or bosses. Your best bet is to hit the heavy target with your AS. If it kills him, good for you, if not, it'll terrorize quite a few minions for what's usually long enough for you to finish off the big target. If you're a def based secondary, it's even nice in solo EV or AB fights for the -tohit.
It still makes little thematic sense that it's only effective when you don't kill someone outright. If anything I'd think the guy's friends would be MORE afraid when I just pop out of nowhere and instantly kill their boss. |
Much better to open up with AoEs.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Placate bug?
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Put a debuff (Example pick any spines or ninja blade attack) on a target then placate it.
Placate doesn't work when a debuff is on your target.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
If there was an anti-taunt, to de-aggro the mob. Maybe reducing the stalkers threat level to 0 so that the mob doesn't aggro on it?
Wow... "shared aggro" issue is like my least concern. I feel my Stalker is not getting enough aggro when I want to (well, limited AoE to start and I don't generate Taunt so the AV that I am focusing on runs all the time).
To give you an example, we were doing an ITF and I was the only melee AT. I was spines so I felt very comfortable taking alpha using BU + Throw Spines. It all went very well until the last two AVs. I mean we didn't die or anything but since my Stalker doesn't generate taunt (and for a good reason), the AV kept running away and we didn't have enough immb.
I am a bit disappointed that Castle won't increase the Critical radius to match Cosmic Balance's. 
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Quote:
At this point, why bother talking about possible changes/fixes if the dev feels Stalker is as "balanced" as it gets? T_T| Rather than further derail this thread, this should be continued over in the Stalker forums. |
There are so many little things that can make Stalker more enjoyable on a team:
1. Shortening Assassin Strike animation would help greatly
or
2. Increasing Critical buff radius to match Cosmic Balance (I don't buy this BS that Stalker's critical buff causes more lag if the radius is larger. What about Cosmic Balance then??) I would even take 2% per teammate buff but the radius is much larger because at least I know I am getting the critical buffs more often.
or
3. Simple damage increase
All these can be done without that big of a change.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
So, at this point you pretty much have to rewire all the AI scripts to attack stalkers absolutely last on the list, huh?
I have to wonder why stalkers can't have more AoE, though. Letting them throw out The Lotus Drops would help team contribution a lot, I'd think.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
Reposting from I19 Beta threads
The problems Stalkers have at this point are systemic, not specific to them. However, due to their intended playstyle, they are hit by these things in particularly harsh fashion.
Example "Shared Aggro":
On a team of 8, someone aggros a large spawn of 16 mobs. Approximately half the mobs immediately peel off and attack the aggroers teammates, regardless of LOS or Stealth preventing them from being able to see where those teammates are. For most ATs, this is a minor inconvenience. For Stalkers, it can cost them a substantial amount of their alpha strike damage.
In the past, I've addressed this to a degree by increasing their damage, adding additional critical avenues and even adding a Fear debuff to their Assassin Strike abilities. At this point, they are about as strong as we want to make them, which means any further improvements have to lie in addressing those systemic problems. Frankly, that means it is a LOT more complicated and manpower consuming.
And, that is where it stands.
Rather than further derail this thread, this should be continued over in the Stalker forums.