Incarnates - Alpha Slot
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-11-09 11:33 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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If you're exemplaring down a lot (e.g., running Posi TFs), it would behoove you to make an exemplar build with cheap Frankenslot IOs avoiding IO Sets.|
Originally Posted by Wanted_NA
Yeah I know that, But when you're looking at high-end builds with multi-billion costs in inf, that's a bit too hard to really implement. At least for me, I don't roll in the inf.
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You lose the IO Set Bonuses anyway when you exemplar down. Also, high level Enhancements take a big debuffing when you exemplar. And if you build your IO Sets with low level IOs so as not to lose the Global buffs, then they're weak enhancers for your high level gaming.
A exemplar build throws all of its slots into the pre-35 level powers, making all of them 5- or 6-slotted. Frankenslotting with cheap IOs puts them way over the ED cap, which is what you want to do, since their strength will be heavily diminished at low levels.
This will give you a character that, at the level of a Posi TF, is equivalent to being slotted with SOs at that level. Plus, with inherent fitness, you'll have Stamina at that level and no slots wasted on the Fitness Pool, meaning, you'll have a full attack chain. Plus they have access to their +5 level powers.
So, again, if you exemplar down any significant amount of time, an exemplar build is cheap and very powerful -- overpowered actually.
And thus... the argument that Incarnate abilities are needed or should be available when exemplaring just doesn't hold water. Without IO Sets or Incarnate Powers, a level 50 exemplared can already be overpowered. The Devs specifically do not want exemplars to get any more overpowered than they are. Asking for Incarnate abilities to be available exemplared is a non-starter with them.
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I'm trying to think of a graceful way out of this that doesn't involve admitting that I jumped to conclusions despite that being my pet peeve about internet conversations.|
Originally Posted by Silver Gale
I hope you're happy, Marcian - someone in the GR forum is already quoting the Tartarus/Zeus thing as fact and asking if that means the abilities will be faction-restricted.
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We here at Marcian Public Relations will keep you posted.
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Yes, that's the part I mentioned I don't do, which is why I'm not getting my hopes up for the Incarnate stuff. I'm currently assuming that any solo-friendly Incarnate mission content will be tiny at best.
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Originally Posted by GreenFIame
There are Incarnate Tf also like Alpha Strike and Tin Mage, I was told they be much tougher and We be needing The Incarnate Slots to stay Alive in it.
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I believe new enemies and new content is coming. Post-L50 content: What we used to think was easy-peasy will now (I conjecture) pwn triple-def-capped claws scrappers as if they were tiny, fluffy kittens.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
I guess this is the thing I'm least excited for in i19 and beyond. I just don't get it. We can already IO our toons out to godly proportions, and now with the new Alignment Merit system, it's really not difficult to do... and most of the game isn't very difficult to begin with. I've yet to run into anything in this game that I can't complete, most of it in a duo, and TFs with a competent team - not even an expert team, just a competent one. I just don't get the point of making our characters godly powerful... in order to do what? And are the upcoming TFs really going to be of a carefully balanced difficulty where the extra regen/damage boost is going to be the make or break point? I think it's a lot more likely that they'll be more difficult and any good team will be able to do them fine, because I can't see a way to predicate the difficulty on a boost like that - especially when we're choosing which boost we want. Are controllers who don't take the mez boost going to be unable to complete them?
I mean, yay powers, everyone loves their toon to be awesome, but it seems like it's just there to BE powerful. |
With all due respect, O mighty scrappers.
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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All due respect, but I don't know if your particular problem can be solved. Unless there is infinite new content (not realistic), the only way to provide a challenge is to either make something require repetition to obtain it (not your style), or make a reward for a task that is SO HARD that it is nearly impossible to accomplish (which nearly all players hate, and which results in people leaving the game.) I don't really see a middle ground here...
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Originally Posted by Flarstux
What if you've already been there/done that?
I don't mind repeating content. I do it with every new alt. What I don't like is doing the same stuff over again on a character that's done it already. That's why I can't farm worth a damn, even if I get it in my head to try. So, for my 50s that have played through all the available level 50 stuff - is there going to be enough NEW level 50 stuff for them to get anywhere with this? |
Arc #6015 - Coming Unglued
"A good n00b-sauce is based on a good n00b-roux." - The Masque
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I'm well aware of that. But, for a non min-maxer, the actual difference between a level 35 IO and a level 50 IO isn't ground breaking, and makes a nice middle ground for both exemp'd builds and level 50 gaming. There're also the builds with purple sets that do exemp down with you.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
If you're exemplaring down a lot (e.g., running Posi TFs), it would behoove you to make an exemplar build with cheap Frankenslot IOs avoiding IO Sets.
You lose the IO Set Bonuses anyway when you exemplar down. Also, high level Enhancements take a big debuffing when you exemplar. And if you build your IO Sets with low level IOs so as not to lose the Global buffs, then they're weak enhancers for your high level gaming. A exemplar build throws all of its slots into the pre-35 level powers, making all of them 5- or 6-slotted. Frankenslotting with cheap IOs puts them way over the ED cap, which is what you want to do, since their strength will be heavily diminished at low levels. This will give you a character that, at the level of a Posi TF, is equivalent to being slotted with SOs at that level. Plus, with inherent fitness, you'll have Stamina at that level and no slots wasted on the Fitness Pool, meaning, you'll have a full attack chain. Plus they have access to their +5 level powers. So, again, if you exemplar down any significant amount of time, an exemplar build is cheap and very powerful -- overpowered actually. |
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| And thus... the argument that Incarnate abilities are needed or should be available when exemplaring just doesn't hold water. Without IO Sets or Incarnate Powers, a level 50 exemplared can already be overpowered. The Devs specifically do not want exemplars to get any more overpowered than they are. Asking for Incarnate abilities to be available exemplared is a non-starter with them. |
Like I said I'm stoked about them. While I do exemp down a lot I don't do that on all my toons. I do have a couple toons that I play just on 50 because their builds isn't exactly exemp-friendly or they're simply just not "wanted" for low level gaming. My Emp would love the Recharge buff since I only really use her on level 50 TFs anyways (well I suppose Dr. Q, too though I'd prefer my Sonic/Sonic 'fender or a Blaster on that one), and my MA/SD and KM/SD would like them some of those buffs too.
@Sparky Jenkins || Freedom Server | Union Server
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Main Villain: Kerry Astrid - Fire/Cold Corruptor
Maybe someone who was in the I18 beta can answer this. Since the Alpha enhancements can be swapped out, they must be a persistent thing. Do they sit in your normal enhancement inventory? Or do they have their own inventory?
I'm assuming since they can't be traded, you can't stick one in your market inventory when you're not using it.
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In I18 Beta, the Shards and Components were in their own Salvage Tab (all non-tradeable) in the Salvage Window.|
Originally Posted by Gearsinger
Maybe someone who was in the I18 beta can answer this. Since the Alpha enhancements can be swapped out, they must be a persistent thing. Do they sit in your normal enhancement inventory? Or do they have their own inventory?
I'm assuming since they can't be traded, you can't stick one in your market inventory when you're not using it. |
There was a separate Incarnate GUI Window in which the recipes for crafting components and Boosts lived and in which you can slot your Alpha Slot and in which your Alpha Boosts were stored for swapping or for storing so as to create the next higher level Boost.
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Fixed for correctness' sake.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
There was a separate Incarnate GUI Window in which the recipes for crafting components and Boosts lived and in which you can slot your Alpha Slot and in which your Alpha Boosts were stored for swapping or for storing so as to maek stuff.
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Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
I have a query. Perhaps those I18 beta goers could answer. So if you say, make a common Cardiac boost and slot it, then later gain components used to make an Uncommon Cardiac boost. Can you remove the common boost and use these components to create an uncommon? And then gather more components and create a rare? And so on. Or is it that once you make the boost, it stays as it is and cannot be upgraded?
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Actually in the I18 Beta all of the higher level Boosts required a lower level boost as a component. So the answer is technically no, you can't "deconstruct" boosts, but you aren't wasting the components either.
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Originally Posted by Shadowclone
I have a query. Perhaps those I18 beta goers could answer. So if you say, make a common Cardiac boost and slot it, then later gain components used to make an Uncommon Cardiac boost. Can you remove the common boost and use these components to create an uncommon? And then gather more components and create a rare? And so on. Or is it that once you make the boost, it stays as it is and cannot be upgraded?
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Cool, thank you! They may have changed it, but we can at least see their intentions.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Actually in the I18 Beta all of the higher level Boosts required a lower level boost as a component. So the answer is technically no (you can't "deconstruct") boosts but you aren't wasting the components either.
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Thanks for the Math-Fu Rush and Sam!
Looking at where you can obtain the components- LGTF/STF/CoP/ITF makes me personally quite happy.
I can see the exemplar and solo arguments. But in context the incarnate system is not aimed at that stuff. We wanted solid end game and the devs have worked towards that.
They are creating a reason to do top level content. Every high end trial and tf is an opportunity to obtain alpha gear and also an opportunity to use alpha gear.
I am sorry for solo'ers but this is an MMO. Your solo content is untouched and from what i can see the incarnate system isnt really any use for soloing. Same for exemplaring. And you arent being completely ignore as you still have inherent fitness to look forward to.
For me this system looks very attractive. And with the new TFs factored in and maybe hami getting an incarnate reward you could concievably run a different epic tf/trial every night of the week.
I am far from an NC fanboy and was quite vocal about the terrible gutting the devs did to pvp. I even left the game for a good 6 months. But I have to say the devs have really earned my respect again. I even appreciate the devs holding back incarnates from GR to polish it up. Just proves how much the devs care about getting this right.
I cant wait to jump back on some of my inactive lvl 50 characters. This game has turned around so much recently. The distinct lack of doom in this thread is amazing :P
The new TFs (plus any future Incarnate content) will probably be tougher because they include stuff like level 52+ enemies as a minimum. Therefore, you need to get the "level shift" ability, so your character can rise to the point that level 52s are even-con for you, and the final AV (level 54? 55? 56?) is within reasonable range of your level.
It will be something like that. They don't want something as daft as the LRSF but also don't want something easy. Level shifting and bosses like Protean with funky gimmick powers (e.g. everyone on the team needs to use their AoE Judgement ability when the boss gets to 75%/50%/25% HP or the boss heals back to 100%) will be the way forward.
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Actually as far as we know right now, Incarnate shards will drop from solo content and can be used to craft the special salvage required to craft the Alpha slot powers, so TFs may not be absolutely necessary. If this is in fact the case, the entire system of becoming an Incarnate can be soloed, albeit very slowly.
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Originally Posted by Charnell
I am sorry for solo'ers but this is an MMO. Your solo content is untouched and from what i can see the incarnate system isnt really any use for soloing. Same for exemplaring. And you arent being completely ignore as you still have inherent fitness to look forward to.
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Yeh looking forward to some challenges. I like the LGTF for the hami fight. Tough but do-able with teamwork. Last stage of STF I suppose but I dont like how that TF basically forces you to have a granite tanker.
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Originally Posted by Dollymistress
The new TFs (plus any future Incarnate content) will probably be tougher because they include stuff like level 52+ enemies as a minimum. Therefore, you need to get the "level shift" ability, so your character can rise to the point that level 52s are even-con for you, and the final AV (level 54? 55? 56?) is within reasonable range of your level.
It will be something like that. They don't want something as daft as the LRSF but also don't want something easy. Level shifting and bosses like Protean with funky gimmick powers (e.g. everyone on the team needs to use their AoE Judgement ability when the boss gets to 75%/50%/25% HP or the boss heals back to 100%) will be the way forward. |
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Issue 4 was mostly useless to me too, since it was all about the arenas and I don't do PvP. I got a some costume options out of it. If they can throw a few minor goodies in for me in Issue 20, I won't mind the focus on stuff I won't use. |
Originally Posted by Charnell
I am sorry for solo'ers but this is an MMO. Your solo content is untouched and from what i can see the incarnate system isnt really any use for soloing. Same for exemplaring. And you arent being completely ignore as you still have inherent fitness to look forward to.
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And yes, I'm looking forward to the I19 inherent Fitness.
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Why do people keep saying things like this?|
Originally Posted by Charnell
Yeh looking forward to some challenges. I like the LGTF for the hami fight. Tough but do-able with teamwork. Last stage of STF I suppose but I dont like how that TF basically forces you to have a granite tanker.
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I only did the STF 3 times (villainside player
), all on PuGs or half-PuGs, and never had a granite tanker. Invul, willpower and fire. All completed without to much difficulty.I can tank the LRSF on my invul brute, without much problems, and he isn't purpled or softcapped. (I built him for +life. Yes, for concept reasons. I don't have hasten for the same reason.)
All you need is a *team* of people who know how to play. They don't even need to have done the particular TF/SF before.
@True Metal
Co-leader of Callous Crew SG. Based on Union server.
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Well, I had terribad luck with my first and to date only LRSF run (**** you, arc locked SF |
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Why do people keep saying things like this?
I only did the STF 3 times (villainside player ), all on PuGs or half-PuGs, and never had a granite tanker. Invul, willpower and fire. All completed without to much difficulty.I can tank the LRSF on my invul brute, without much problems, and he isn't purpled or softcapped. (I built him for +life. Yes, for concept reasons. I don't have hasten for the same reason.) All you need is a *team* of people who know how to play. They don't even need to have done the particular TF/SF before. |
) We had a full team of very competant players, we steamrollered all the missions...except the last one. The Phalanx must have had their weetabix that day, either that or Numina had gone buff happy when we were trying to get ready. They mauled us. Over and over. They even mauled our Vengeanced Shivans.So, yeah. I have yet to do a LRSF all the way through... That was the first time in recent history that Alphas capped Defences have failed me.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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In the GR beta, I was able to unlock the Alpha and build up to a second-tier (uncommon) boost in about a week of almost entirely solo play (I used Vanguard merits that may not have been earned solo to unlock the slot and to get a component). That was on my empath, by the way. It was slower than doing the TFs to get components, but not horribly so.|
Originally Posted by Steel_Shaman
Actually as far as we know right now, Incarnate shards will drop from solo content and can be used to craft the special salvage required to craft the Alpha slot powers, so TFs may not be absolutely necessary. If this is in fact the case, the entire system of becoming an Incarnate can be soloed, albeit very slowly.
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That doesn't necessarily establish how long it will take in I19, since the system has been tinkered with, but I don't expect it to be much different.
The Way of the Corruptor (Arc ID 49834): Hey villains! Do something for yourself for a change--like twisting the elements to your will. All that's standing in your way are a few secret societies...and Champions of the four elements.
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Agreed. Heck, I've run a PuG Abandoned Sewer Trial where only one person had ever run it before, and only once it that. We won.|
Originally Posted by TrueMetal
Why do people keep saying things like this?
I only did the STF 3 times (villainside player ), all on PuGs or half-PuGs, and never had a granite tanker. Invul, willpower and fire. All completed without to much difficulty.I can tank the LRSF on my invul brute, without much problems, and he isn't purpled or softcapped. (I built him for +life. Yes, for concept reasons. I don't have hasten for the same reason.) All you need is a *team* of people who know how to play. They don't even need to have done the particular TF/SF before. |
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My first LRSF was a total success, admittedly our team was pretty opted (Multiple SOA's) but we basically steamrolled the Phalanx. Didn't even do anything fancy.
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Originally Posted by Shadowclone
Agreed. Heck, I've run a PuG Abandoned Sewer Trial where only one person had ever run it before, and only once it that. We won.
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"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
It's more like wearing gear from another MMO. You chose what piece you want to wear and gain its benefits, and then swap it out for another in different situations. All the Alphas take up the same slot, the Alpha slot, so you "wear" two at once. It's an either/or thing. Either you have your Spiritual on or your Cardiac on.
Given time, you can build/have all of them, but you can only ever wear one of them.
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