Disney's Avengers, Any Good?
By
Airhammer,
Posted on: 2010-11-07 19:44 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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All's fair in love and comics. I watched Batman: Under the Red Hood the other night and DC has clearly ripped off both Deadpool (Red Hood) and Red Skull (Black Mask), so turnabout is fair play.|
Originally Posted by Eisregen_NA
Brainiac supported by what looks like forces from Apokolips no less.
Hmmm. I guess that means that in the wake of JLU's final episode, Destroyer, it turned out that Luthor did also resurrect Brainiac. Who then took over Apokolips and chose to invade an alternate earth rather than get trounced by the JLU yet again. Perfectly sensible choice in as far as comics logic is concerned. |
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Wasn't Deadpool a supposed ripoff of DC's Deathstroke?
And having a skull for a head is a pretty common thing to do in comics.
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Beats me; I loathe Deadpool and am not too familiar with Deathstroke. Lobo was a rip of Wolverine, though. (Of course, if we really pull the "inspired by" train out of the station, almost all of the original Timely/Marvel characters come from DC and many of DC's characters come from pulp sources.)|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Wasn't Deadpool a supposed ripoff of DC's Deathstroke?
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| And having a skull for a head is a pretty common thing to do in comics. |
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He was. Liefield "came up" with the look and general abilities, and Nicieza was like "dude. You just 'created' Deathstroke." Nicieza named him Wade Wilson as a goof. Hell, Wade's first appearance was fighting The New Mutants....the junior X-men. Deathstroke's made his bones antagonizing the Teen Titans.|
Originally Posted by Xzero45
Wasn't Deadpool a supposed ripoff of DC's Deathstroke?
And having a skull for a head is a pretty common thing to do in comics. |
Fortunately, Nicieza pretty quickly diverged the character from any more similarities.
As far as Red Hood being a rip of Deadpool or Mask being a rip of Skull...that's a pretty large stretch. Takes more than a similar mask to be a ripoff, imo. Hell, Wade and Slade don't look all that similar at all, (especially under the mask...ugh) and that's an acknowledged lift.
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Taskmaster, Vengeance, Atomic Skull, Crossbones, Destroyer, Mr. Bones, Phosphorus... |
Originally Posted by Ironik
I can name 3 characters and then I'm out: Red Skull, Black Skull, Ghost Rider.
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Also, interesting note: George Perez supposedly created Deathstroke during his run on Teen Titans as a nod to another of his own characters introduced during his run on the Avengers at Marvel... Taskmaster. So Deadpool is a knockoff of a DC alt of a Marvel character. Heh.
And I'm pretty sure there's no black around Red Hood's eyes in the comics, that was just done for the animated movie to make them stand out a little more.
Anyway!
I'm digging the Avengers series so far. Maybe not quite as much as the animated DC Timmverse shows, but there's obviously a lot of love for these characters and their history here.
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I didn't include Taskmaster because he wears a skull-like mask in every appearance I've seen him in, including the recent Siege. Same with Crossbones and Destroyer. (The recent Destroyer miniseries was pretty good, btw.) Vengeance is a Ghost Rider, basically, so if we're counting all the ghost riders individually then we'll have quite a few more characters. Atomic Skull and Doctor Phosphorous I'd never heard of before and had to look them up, but they definitely count. Maybe not Dr. P technically, since you're really seeing his skeleton through his skin, but it works for me.
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Originally Posted by Hazmatter
Taskmaster, Vengeance, Atomic Skull, Crossbones, Destroyer, Mr. Bones, Phosphorus...
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That's funny. |
Originally Posted by Hazmatter
Also, interesting note: George Perez supposedly created Deathstroke during his run on Teen Titans as a nod to another of his own characters introduced during his run on the Avengers at Marvel... Taskmaster. So Deadpool is a knockoff of a DC alt of a Marvel character. Heh.
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I've always dug Taskmaster.|
Originally Posted by Ironik
That's funny.
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was just going through the wiki's on the Wilsons...Taskmaster couldn't beat Wade, despite his "monkey see, monkey do" fighting abilities. Wade's toooooo crazy and unpredictable apparently....and Batman has lost to Deathstroke (badly on occasion) every time they've crossed paths.
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I'm one of the people that actually likes the intro song. And while I don't like some of the choices (Black Nick Fury with hair instead of Samuel L. Fury? Manga Wasp?), I *DO* like some of the references. (Wolverine fighting along with Captain America against the Naz... er, Hydra invasion was a nice touch). Needs more Moon Knight and Deadpool though.
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I believe it's been established that theres two people Taskmaster "can't" mimic. Deadpool, because he's simply way too unpredictable, and Moon Knight. Though technically it's not that he CAN'T mimic Moon Knight, it's that he *WON'T*, since Moon Knight tends to be more apt to take the punch rather then try to actually, y'know, DODGE it.
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Originally Posted by Furio
I've always dug Taskmaster.
was just going through the wiki's on the Wilsons...Taskmaster couldn't beat Wade, despite his "monkey see, monkey do" fighting abilities. Wade's toooooo crazy and unpredictable apparently....and Batman has lost to Deathstroke (badly on occasion) every time they've crossed paths. |
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Originally Posted by LiquidX
I believe it's been established that theres two people Taskmaster "can't" mimic. Deadpool, because he's simply way too unpredictable, and Moon Knight. Though technically it's not that he CAN'T mimic Moon Knight, it's that he *WON'T*, since Moon Knight tends to be more apt to take the punch rather then try to actually, y'know, DODGE it.
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Ya...he's no dummy.
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Yeah. It's a distinction that's always amused the heck out of me, though.
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Originally Posted by Furio
Ya...he's no dummy.
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One of MY favorite characters. |
Originally Posted by Furio
I've always dug Taskmaster.
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Though I gotta say I prefer his UDON costume over his traditional one.
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Blazing Skull and Blight also come to mind.
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Originally Posted by Hazmatter
Taskmaster, Vengeance, Atomic Skull, Crossbones, Destroyer, Mr. Bones, Phosphorus...
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Gotta agree. I also like how the storylines are cohesive and the episodes build upon each other. Throw in plenty of fight scenes and some humor (i.e. Thor's perception of Jarvis as the talking house) and it's an enjoyable half-hour. Maybe not the Timmverse, which is the gold standard in superhero animation, but still a worthy addition. I like it better than a lot of Marvel's previous television ventures.
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Originally Posted by Hazmatter
I'm digging the Avengers series so far. Maybe not quite as much as the animated DC Timmverse shows, but there's obviously a lot of love for these characters and their history here.
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
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As far as the Avengers' OP goes...it's fitting and sounds like it would be used as a WWE theme for Survivor Series :3
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Batman managed to disrupt Deathstroke's plans enough to make him fail on missions.|
Originally Posted by Furio
I've always dug Taskmaster.
was just going through the wiki's on the Wilsons...Taskmaster couldn't beat Wade, despite his "monkey see, monkey do" fighting abilities. Wade's toooooo crazy and unpredictable apparently....and Batman has lost to Deathstroke (badly on occasion) every time they've crossed paths. |
Batman did managed to take down Deatstroke when he had the help of the boy wonders and ganged up on him three on one.
But yeah, one on one usually goes pretty badly for Bats. Deathstroke is one of my all time favorite characters.
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I have the issue where they tangled. Taskmaster was mimicing DP and beating him rather easily. Once DP realized what was going on, he started to dance as he fought, which is what threw Taskmaster off. So Deadpool isn't unmimicable, it's just that Wade has to make a conscious effort to change things up.|
Originally Posted by LiquidX
I believe it's been established that theres two people Taskmaster "can't" mimic. Deadpool, because he's simply way too unpredictable, and Moon Knight. Though technically it's not that he CAN'T mimic Moon Knight, it's that he *WON'T*, since Moon Knight tends to be more apt to take the punch rather then try to actually, y'know, DODGE it.
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They have some weird relationship. In the Taskmaster limited series they were hanging out and talking like old buddies. In other things, it's like they hardly know each other and they're bitter enemies. Inconsistent writing.
Learn modesty, if you desire knowledge. A highland would never be irrigated by river." (Kanz ol-Haghayegh)
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That Taskmaster/Deadpool fight was always bugsome to me and worthy only as comedy---as if Taskmaster couldn't fight just because he couldn't copy the moves of his current opponent? |
Originally Posted by The_Dude73
I have the issue where they tangled. Taskmaster was mimicing DP and beating him rather easily. Once DP realized what was going on, he started to dance as he fought, which is what threw Taskmaster off. So Deadpool isn't unmimicable, it's just that Wade has to make a conscious effort to change things up.
They have some weird relationship. In the Taskmaster limited series they were hanging out and talking like old buddies. In other things, it's like they hardly know each other and they're bitter enemies. Inconsistent writing. |
Anywho, as to the OP: yes, I enjoy the show a lot, though I'm one of the ones who despise the theme song. Does it compare to Justice League? Honestly, some of their respective episodes do, yeah (the Graviton battle was excellent). Given time to build it's own characterizations and technology, it's got a lotta potential. I don't get the sense that I'll ever like it as much as Spectacular Spider-Man, yet, though.
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I'm sure Task could pull moves/fighting styles from memory and take out most opponents...but DP is a top-tier combatant in his own right, and has the advantage of actual enhanced abilities over Task. I never saw the issue...was this their first time fighting? I'd imagine that Task would start out just fighting him, and then once DP went wacky on him, and getting the upper hand he'd default to trying to learn his style, in order to be able to predict DP....once that fails, yeah, I could see the fight going badly for Task
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I am getting caught up on youtube. (as the episodes are on there atm.) I'm really digging it so far. They seem have several threads all going at once leading to the break out and formation of the avengers. I'm glad they're willing show other characters besides the main team they are showing in the intro. I hope this lasts for awhile. (makes me wish I still had cable to follow it and give it rating.)
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Deadpool was taking down one of Taskmaster's training academies. As he was working his way through the minions, Taskmaster observed him on CCTV. After a few minutes, he decided he had him figured out. Taskmaster had that upper hand in the beginning, and things were going badly for DP.|
Originally Posted by Furio
I'm sure Task could pull moves/fighting styles from memory and take out most opponents...but DP is a top-tier combatant in his own right, and has the advantage of actual enhanced abilities over Task. I never saw the issue...was this their first time fighting? I'd imagine that Task would start out just fighting him, and then once DP went wacky on him, and getting the upper hand he'd default to trying to learn his style, in order to be able to predict DP....once that fails, yeah, I could see the fight going badly for Task
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Also, in that issue, Bullseye was providing sniper cover from outside the compound. Most of the issue was focused on DP whining about relationship issues to Bullseye on the comms. At the end, Bullseye told him to get his act together or he'd kill him himself.
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The show tries really hard to be like the Timmverse right down to the angular character designs.
It fails to have the kind of inter-connectivity and depth JLU had, and is trying way to hard to do that. JLU felt like it had a layered history behind it that people could perceive even if they had never seen any of the Batman cartoons or Superman: TAS. You just felt like the characters existed in this universe before the show started, and you felt like they existed after the show was over.
This show really doesn't do that for me. It feels like when they were writing the show bible they reached into a big bag full of B and C-List Marvel characters and organizations from various eras, threw them against a wall and drew lines connecting them at random. Then they stood back and proudly admired how they managed to cram more obscure characters into their episodes than DC could, missing the point completely.
Also, it suffers greatly from Disneyfication. JLU and the other DC shows pushed a lot of boundaries. This show has no edge and no heart. It feels both like a case of too many cooks and a case of over-engineering.
In the end though, the show's biggest sin is merely being OK when compared to greatness. This is a condition it brings on itself though, by trying hard to ape greatness without really understanding why it's great.
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I don't think you can blame any faults on Disney, as this was in the pipeline years before that merger happened.
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Hmmm. I guess that means that in the wake of JLU's final episode, Destroyer, it turned out that Luthor did also resurrect Brainiac. Who then took over Apokolips and chose to invade an alternate earth rather than get trounced by the JLU yet again. Perfectly sensible choice in as far as comics logic is concerned.
Winston Churchill