In terms of SGU, there should be more on Young in the next episode based on the clip that Syfy released. It pretty much showed him talking to TJ with it clear that something was bugging him to which he revealed his wife wants a divorce. The official description actually says that he starts doubting his ability to lead the mission after having what he believes are prophetic dreams of Destiny being destroyed. Next episode after that, the secret Rush has been keeping is let out of the bag.
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Where a movie or show is filmed doesn't really distance it from the executive calling the shots. It's common practice to shoot movies and TV shows in Canada for lower production costs. SyFy is owned by NBC/Universal; it's hard to get more "Hollywood" than that.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
I'm not really sure you can call it a "Hollywood" show since it's filmed in Vancouver (like just about everything on Syfy and USA), but your point is taken.
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Don't get me wrong, I like SGU. I feel the show has potential, but I believe they need to hurry up and start displaying that potential.|
Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
I disagree on the SGU front.
Everett and Rush aren't "Bad guys." They are just very flawed guys. The both have good intentions, both are trying to make the best of bad situations, their both just in over their heads and have a number of vices making them do less than perfect things all the time. Honestly I think SGU is doing a good job. It' is character driven, the characters just aren't as 2-Dimensional as the characters in SG-1. They aren't all completely good and heroic. But I like that. |
Rush is definitely a bad guy. Any actions he's taken have been completely out of self interest. Any good that came of them was purely coincidental.
I never suggested Colonel Everett was a bad guy, he's just portrayed as incompetent. I had really hoped they'd finally give Everett something he could excel at with the Lucian Alliance Incursion, but instead they had him botch that up. The show makes no illusions about his incompetence. They go out of their way to have other Colonels out performing him.
Just because characters are not "completely good or heroic" doesn't mean they need to be pathetic.
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Yeh have to say im not hugely surprised. Caprica had plenty of space to flex its muscles and never really built up any steam.
And right from the start the focus on attractive teenagers didnt bode well for me. Most of the other characters were also a mix of relaxed and rich people. The main teenage girl character (ZOE?) was also not that attractive as a personality. She became a terrorist because she was bored?
Yet look at the characters in BSG. There was always a palpable feeling of imminent danger. Strung out and on the edge. No prima-donna spoilt brats. Just real people trying to stay alive.
Kara was a personal favourite. Like a lot of the BSG characters she is taken way beyond a one dimensional stereo type. In fact the only real weak link for me in BSG was appollo. And he was still quite likeable and integral to the plot.
While Caprica for all its pretension towards a character focus showed none of BSG's excellent development. At the end of the first series there was little or no development of any of the characters. Adama's father probably had the most opportunity to develop and yet it went nowhere. The lead teenager was exactly the same even after being turned into a virtual entity and locked in a metal body.
tl:dr
For once I completely agree with a series cancellation.
Wipe the slate clean and start again.
Hopefully the new series will grow some legs quick.
First Zoe wasn't a terrorist per se. She had no idea her boyfriend was going to blow up the train, she thought she was going off world to whichever world the Church of the One True God was located (Gemenon?) and bring her creation, virtual life, there. She felt repulsed by the hedonistic virtual playground that her father indirectly help create. The fact she got hung with the terrorist moniker bugged me to no end.
What I hope at least in this new series, we find out whether Adama's virtual clone of a sister became part of the Cylon consciousness or not during the first war.
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My guess (assuming they weren't able to do any episodes to bring Caprica to some kind of reasonable conclusion) is that they'll try to work some bits and pieces of what Caprica tried develop into the new series to give it some overall continuity.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
First Zoe wasn't a terrorist per se. She had no idea her boyfriend was going to blow up the train, she thought she was going off world to whichever world the Church of the One True God was located (Gemenon?) and bring her creation, virtual life, there. She felt repulsed by the hedonistic virtual playground that her father indirectly help create. The fact she got hung with the terrorist moniker bugged me to no end.
What I hope at least in this new series, we find out whether Adama's virtual clone of a sister became part of the Cylon consciousness or not during the first war. |
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I hope not, because much like the second Highlander movie Caprica never happened.|
Originally Posted by Lothic
My guess (assuming they weren't able to do any episodes to bring Caprica to some kind of reasonable conclusion) is that they'll try to work some bits and pieces of what Caprica tried develop into the new series to give it some overall continuity.
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Sorry. I'm really struggling to not go off on a nerdrage. It was a bit of a shock to realize that I'm wanting to express myself like I've seen the Trekkies do somewhere we can't mention on these forums.
I came to the conclusion that SyFy like producing gorgeous-looking but thin-as-paper television shows. They saw what they had in BSG, and tried to milk the cash cow.
When you have a prequel show where you know what's coming (Enterprise, I'm looking at you), you kill a lot of the essential tension in precisely that premise. But I agree with what others said; my problem started and ended with Zoe....the way it was being shaped up was that the whole reason the Cylons rose up and destroyed humanity is because they were patterned on a dead teenage girl with a daddy complex.
I mean, seriously?
S.
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My problem is that they seem to be hell-bent on replicating BSG in the SG universe.
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Originally Posted by Ice_Wall
Honestly I think SGU is doing a good job. It' is character driven, the characters just aren't as 2-Dimensional as the characters in SG-1. They aren't all completely good and heroic. But I like that.
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I don't see Zoe as being the instrument of mankind's destruction - as you say, she's just a girl with daddy issues. I think she was just the first model of how you can put a human consciousness into a Cylon. And she eventually slipped from Dr. Greystone's grasp for the time being. |
Originally Posted by SuperOz
my problem started and ended with Zoe....the way it was being shaped up was that the whole reason the Cylons rose up and destroyed humanity is because they were patterned on a dead teenage girl with a daddy complex.
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I'm guessing the direction they were heading was that the STO gets their Apotheosis program going and they eventually download the memories of a bunch of dead STO suicide bombers into the Cylons. They would have the kind of ruthlessness it takes to declare war on humanity.
But we may never know now. I completely agree with Lothic in that they should have done the story in a miniseries format with a tangible beginning, middle, and end, rather than the meandering soap opera they were doing.
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Some of the best SG-1 episodes centered on how those characters weren't perfect and could make mistakes (heck, O'Neill didn't think he deserved to become Ascended), so I agree completely. Yes, those characters were usually on the heroic side, but they did have some balance.|
Originally Posted by Desmodos
I never suggested Colonel Everett was a bad guy, he's just portrayed as incompetent. I had really hoped they'd finally give Everett something he could excel at with the Lucian Alliance Incursion, but instead they had him botch that up. The show makes no illusions about his incompetence. They go out of their way to have other Colonels out performing him.
Just because characters are not "completely good or heroic" doesn't mean they need to be pathetic. |
You can have jerk characters or people that aren't perfect, but if you can't make them someone for the audience to connect to, that's bad.
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Originally Posted by Pouncer
I don't see Zoe as being the instrument of mankind's destruction - as you say, she's just a girl with daddy issues. I think she was just the first model of how you can put a human consciousness into a Cylon. And she eventually slipped from Dr. Greystone's grasp for the time being.
I'm guessing the direction they were heading was that the STO gets their Apotheosis program going and they eventually download the memories of a bunch of dead STO suicide bombers into the Cylons. They would have the kind of ruthlessness it takes to declare war on humanity. But we may never know now. I completely agree with Lothic in that they should have done the story in a miniseries format with a tangible beginning, middle, and end, rather than the meandering soap opera they were doing. |
Perhaps so, but I was honestly filled with dread with that being the first example. An emo daughter with daddy issues? I'm pretty sure the story was heading in the direction that Zoe and co. would hook up with the STO faction and they'd go after humanity, as you say.
What bothers me is the parallels it draws to the more human Cylons who do exactly the same thing, but much more effectively. Children with parent complexes...? Doesn't sound that far removed, to me.
S.
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Both SGU and Caprica were supposed to be character driven. The truth is, the only reason anyone watches either show was for the concept. Ironically, SG1 and BSG were more character driven then either of these follow up shows. Even the flawed characters in BSG were likeable, Gaius Baltar anyone? Heck, even Baul was more likeable then most of these folks.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
You can have jerk characters or people that aren't perfect, but if you can't make them someone for the audience to connect to, that's bad.
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...at least Sanctuary is living up to my expectations.
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I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if I'm retelling what others have said:
"Caprica" wasn't originally designed around the Battlestar Galactica plot. The pilot script was a generic "cyborg takes over the world after humans give it the ability to think" kind of deal. The writer brought the script to a producer at SyFy and the producer figured that, since BSG was winding down and that they were already looking for a sequel/prequel to it, they gave the script to the BSG producers and a deal was made.
Basically, "Caprica" was an entirely different show that's original plot was reworked to feature Cylons. They went into the script, pulled certain items and then filled in the blanks so that it would fit the story of BSG.
Now, I'm not thrilled at the cancellation but I'm not surprised. The plot, to me, didn't work with BSG. It felt like they had a drama that they HAD to throw some action in to appease the BSG fanbase. Week after week, there was more and more that seemed too far-fetched, even for SciFi standards.
I don't know much about the next Cylon prequel, but I'm hoping that it's done by fans of BSG or at least the plot was specifically designed AROUND what we saw in BSG.
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Caprica was a joke. I see in the $1.00 bin at the store already. Just curious, what did the girl trio have to do with the story? Every time, I tuned into the show I saw them doing petty things. It seemed like the show was geared towards 15-20 year olds.
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Originally Posted by Desmodos
http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2010/10/...ncels-caprica/
OH, for any that didn't know, the new BSG series will be called "Blood and Chrome.". Rumors of Caprica's demise sparked up immediately after it was announced. |
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Yup. Maybourne on SG-1 went from being one of my most detested characters to one of those that I loved seeing whenever he came back (his rapport with O'Neill was awesome). Heck, same goes for some of the big bads like Ba'al. |
Originally Posted by Desmodos
Both SGU and Caprica were supposed to be character driven. The truth is, the only reason anyone watches either show was for the concept. Ironically, SG1 and BSG were more character driven then either of these follow up shows. Even the flawed characters in BSG were likeable, Gaius Baltar anyone? Heck, even Baul was more likeable then most of these folks.
...at least Sanctuary is living up to my expectations. |
I only watched that opening mini-series for BSG and a few of the follow up episodes (we don't get cable and we haven't got around to watching them on Netflix), but while I thought it could lead towards being too moody, pretty much all of the characters were quite interesting... and most of them were flawed (but in a balanced way). It's a hard thing to do, I know, but shows seem to do better with being character driven when they say they aren't going to be.
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There are plenty of reasons Caprica failed as a show.|
Originally Posted by Residentx10
Caprica was a joke. I see in the $1.00 bin at the store already. Just curious, what did the girl trio have to do with the story? Every time, I tuned into the show I saw them doing petty things. It seemed like the show was geared towards 15-20 year olds.
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But at least one of those reasons WASN'T that it was geared towards 15-20 year olds.
A few teenagers in a show does not automatically make that show a "teenaged" oriented show.
Disliking a show like this is fine, but at least dislike it for non-silly reasons. *shrugs*
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Lothic,|
Originally Posted by Lothic
There are plenty of reasons Caprica failed as a show.
But at least one of those reasons WASN'T that it was geared towards 15-20 year olds. A few teenagers in a show does not automatically make that show a "teenaged" oriented show. Disliking a show like this is fine, but at least dislike it for non-silly reasons. *shrugs* |
I see your comments. I never understood or better yet took the time to understand the show. I only caught episodes here and there. In reading the post. I guess the show was about the cylons first attempts at humanism.
Also, if a show only shows "teenagers"...it's a teenaged-oriented show.
Seriously, golden girls ain't for kids. Also, I did add this in my comments
" it seemed"
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Well then ironically you must have caught the ONLY episodes that featured the teenagers a lot. There were many episodes of Caprica which barely gave any screentime to those characters. Several eps didn't have them in them at all. Like I said the show had a lot of problems, but being pegged as a show "only teenagers would care about" was never one of them.
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Originally Posted by Residentx10
Lothic,
I see your comments. I never understood or better yet took the time to understand the show. I only caught episodes here and there. In reading the post. I guess the show was about the cylons first attempts at humanism. Also, if a show only shows "teenagers"...it's a teenaged-oriented show. Seriously, golden girls ain't for kids. Also, I did add this in my comments " it seemed" |
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Yeah, there's really only one teenage regular, and one that appears in maybe 2/3rds of the episodes. All the others tend to be one-off appearances or maybe 2-3 episodes.
The vast majority of the rest of the cast is above age 30.
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I like SGU. I like SG-1. Haven't watched SGA... yet. But I don't like SGU and SG-1 for the same reasons. SG-1 is more of an idealistic fantasy like Star Trek (which I also love) with a few dark spots here and there just so you don't think the characters are complete saints (also just like Star Trek). I will agree that SGU is getting a bit too dark with most of the characters. I used to like Colonel Young, and hated Wray and Rush for trying to seize authority. Now I am not so sure, and I think it's interesting that the show has sort of made me back away from my initially formed opinion of the characters. But now I don't have anyone to cheer for. Grier is a belligerent jerk, Young is almost morally bereft in his style of command, Wray is a power-hungry feminazi, Rush is such an absorbed intellectual that he'd willingly put others in harm's way for the sake of research... and then the characters that aren't deplorable are largely boring... TJ and Chloe are damsels in distress that everyone has to rescue and who also don't seem to show a whole lot of emotion given their very somber situations (TJ having lost her baby, Chloe having lost her father). Eli's the only one I give a damn about, and despite being a boy genius and "the most important person on this ship" he still seems to have been relegated to being a side-character.|
Originally Posted by Desmodos
I find SGU to be following the same route. The only redeeming characters there have smaller roles. Everett Young is proving to be the worst Colonel ever portrayed in the SG franchise. Even when Dr. Nicholas Rush saves the day, you still can't help but wish he'd die in the process.
This seems to have been done intentionally in both shows. The term thrown around from the onset was "more character driven" shows. Seems the folks over at SyFy feel "character driven" stories require a collection of ********. |
And when are they going to explore some planets? Maybe meet some friendly aliens? I realize these stargates are much older than the ones in the Milkyway and neighboring galaxies and wouldn't likely contain any humans due to the Gou'ald not taking slaves, but couldn't the ancients have seeded some of these worlds like they did in our galaxy? The only time these people are on planets is when they're collecting flora samples or getting killed by horrible monsters.
As for the comment about Enterprise killing tension because we knew what would happen... I disagree. TOS takes place over 100 years after ENT. All we know is that Earth would endure, humans and aliens would coexist as part of a Federation, etc. Knowing that certainly didn't prepare me for season 3 of Enterprise, in which Earth was attacked and 7 million people were killed. We also didn't know who might live, who might die, what would happen to lead in to TOS happening. It's not the same as the Star Wars prequels where we all know Anakin is going to be Vader.
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'Blood and Chrome' : article courtesy Blastr.com
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Originally Posted by Commander
I don't know much about the next Cylon prequel, but I'm hoping that it's done by fans of BSG or at least the plot was specifically designed AROUND what we saw in BSG.
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While it might be true that Caprica was originally a non-BSG show they reworked to be a BSG prequel it's hard to get around the fact that the SAME people (David Eick, etc.) were involved in making both shows. I'll grant you that Caprica ended up having some critical problems, but the people who created the BSG you loved had complete and full control over what direction Caprica took. They had complete responsibility and could have made Caprica as good or as bad as they wanted. Apparently they didn't do so well. |
Originally Posted by Commander
"Caprica" wasn't originally designed around the Battlestar Galactica plot. The pilot script was a generic "cyborg takes over the world after humans give it the ability to think" kind of deal. The writer brought the script to a producer at SyFy and the producer figured that, since BSG was winding down and that they were already looking for a sequel/prequel to it, they gave the script to the BSG producers and a deal was made.
Basically, "Caprica" was an entirely different show that's original plot was reworked to feature Cylons. They went into the script, pulled certain items and then filled in the blanks so that it would fit the story of BSG. Now, I'm not thrilled at the cancellation but I'm not surprised. The plot, to me, didn't work with BSG. It felt like they had a drama that they HAD to throw some action in to appease the BSG fanbase. Week after week, there was more and more that seemed too far-fetched, even for SciFi standards. I don't know much about the next Cylon prequel, but I'm hoping that it's done by fans of BSG or at least the plot was specifically designed AROUND what we saw in BSG. |
So don't be so quick to assume that Caprica WASN'T "done by fans of BSG or at least the plot was specifically designed AROUND what we saw in BSG" because who better to judge what that should have been than the guys who actually made BSG?
Obviously the Cylons had to come from somewhere so the idea that there had to be a "Cylon origin story" out there made perfect sense. The fact that the producers of this show "borrowed" a similar idea to start from wasn't the problem with Caprica. Caprica failed because it lost its focus and never got around to telling the story it was supposed to tell. That was David Eick's fault, not the basic premise of the story itself. Caprica had the POTENTIAL to be a great show even as a "non pow-pow drama" as you seemed to think it was.
In any case based on the relative failure of Caprica I'm not going to automatically assume Blood and Chrome is going to be any better than Caprica until I see it for myself. *shrugs*
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I liked Caprica. thought It was a program with lots of potentional. I loved Battlestar also. It was good dark "realistic" sifi. Im gonna miss the program
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Everett and Rush aren't "Bad guys." They are just very flawed guys. The both have good intentions, both are trying to make the best of bad situations, their both just in over their heads and have a number of vices making them do less than perfect things all the time.
Honestly I think SGU is doing a good job. It' is character driven, the characters just aren't as 2-Dimensional as the characters in SG-1. They aren't all completely good and heroic. But I like that.
Can't comment about Caprica though, never saw it...
Young is...odd. I don't think he's shown the necessary skills or leadership to have risen to the rank of Colonel. He definitely isn't afraid to ruffle feathers and that would go against the political nature of getting to that position. He's willing to protect his people, but despite his feather-ruffling nature, too soft-footed around people who think they are more important than they actually are (Wray).
One thing I will say...TJ definitely managed to project a motherness air about herself, IMO. Just the way she carried herself in the episode after she lost the baby. She really did make it seem like she had a child. Kinda odd to put into words though.