Don't go Free to Play(F2P), COH
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33253,
Posted on: 2010-10-27 07:26 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Originally Posted by Disappearing Girl
Or the people who didn't think they would use intentional deceptive language in thier advertising it wasn't a clear cut case of being able to read it was a case of being able to read lawyer talk as it was something like 'there are no incentives to prepurchase ' and then they added the prepurchase bonuses.
(posted by iPhone please excuse formatting) |
As can plainly be seen there was nothing deceptive in their announcements. No lawyerspeak. They were quite open and explicit in what came with the prepurchase. The incentive to buy the prepurchase was getting to play Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning 5 months before the people that chose to wait.
Furthermore NCSoft flat out told us that when they announced the Prepruchase Program they had no intention of offering any preorder bonuses thru retailers. The decision to offer a preorder bonus was in part the result of feedback they got from us,
And even after they decided to offer both the prepurchase program and the preorder thru Gamestop they took the time to explain the differences between the two of them.
So you can rant and deny the facts all you like, but the truth is they gave us all the information they had as soon as it was available.
But unless they actually came around to every player's home and talked them through the GR purchasing options, then they were clearly trying to trick us in some way.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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This is true, the least they could have done is stop by for lunch and a debriefing.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
But unless they actually came around to every player's home and talked them through the GR purchasing options, then they were clearly trying to trick us in some way.
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I still don't get the posts people have on the subject. They announced how you could get the game, I read the options, and was quite surprised to see that we would get some in game costume stuff and a free month if I didn't pre-purchase. I was entirely ready to pre-purchase, as I thought this would be the way to go for extras.
But nope, I was fine waiting a little longer to play two sets if I got a free month along with costume and aura options. I didn't have to cut through lawyer speak or anything confusing to figure this out, either: the options were laid out side by side and I made my decision easily. We discussed it on the Victory section of the forums right after the announcement: no confusion there, either.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
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They can't have my briefs!|
Originally Posted by LISAR
This is true, the least they could have done is stop by for lunch and a debriefing.
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I will give chase!
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
And every time someone tries that argument another person posts proof that we've always paid for extra stuff in this game. We paid for the extra costumes all the way back to CoV's release. It was at least a year or so before they merged both games and gave everyone that hadn't bought both games access to all the goodies in one package. The same will eventually happen with the GR stuff if we don't switch over to an F2P model.
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Like I said, some argue it but I don't subscribe to that claim.
Merging of GR into the mainstream game may happen in due course but not for a while I suspect. It would need the GR package to have been exhausted and some other new initiative to encourage people to buy a "complete" edition.
Thelonious Monk
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Wasn't trying to imply you did, just saying people quickly point out the fallacy of that argument whenever it gets brought up. |
Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Like I said, some argue it but I don't subscribe to that claim.
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| Merging of GR into the mainstream game may happen in due course but not for a while I suspect. It would need the GR package to have been exhausted and some other new initiative to encourage people to buy a "complete" edition. |
Actually, City of Heroes and City of Villains are not "merged." PlayNC simply tagged all existing accounts to be applicable for both versions of the game, but the separate versions of the game still exist on the Play NC Store, and I remember stories of people buying just one and wondering what happened.
PlayNC either pulled all separate versions from actual physical stores, or stores refused to carry them, so for a while the only thing you could buy was GvE, which had both games, and every release since then, such as Mac and Architect, has had both, as well. I'm not sure if Going Rogue had CoH and CoV in it, but I think there is a version of it that does, too.
And, by the way, the "merger" of City of Heroes and City of Villains was a gesture of good will / clever publicity stunt on the part of PlayNC when they bought the game over from Cryptic, to show us that they weren't buying it to scrap for parts and stop us from panic-mongering. For what it's worth, I appreciated it, and it seemed to go over very smoothly.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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That's what I mean by merged. When they were first released if you bought one you didn't have access to the other faction until you bought the other game.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Actually, City of Heroes and City of Villains are not "merged." PlayNC simply tagged all existing accounts to be applicable for both versions of the game, but the separate versions of the game still exist on the Play NC Store, and I remember stories of people buying just one and wondering what happened.
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| And, by the way, the "merger" of City of Heroes and City of Villains was a gesture of good will / clever publicity stunt on the part of PlayNC when they bought the game over from Cryptic, to show us that they weren't buying it to scrap for parts and stop us from panic-mongering. For what it's worth, I appreciated it, and it seemed to go over very smoothly. |
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I'm pretty sure that's still the case, actually. They merged accounts of existing players, but future accounts can still have just one game or just the other. It's just that no-one in their right mind would buy just one when both together cost the same amount.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
That's what I mean by merged. When they were first released if you bought one you didn't have access to the other faction until you bought the other game.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Then how do you explain people buying original copies of both CoH and CoV from places like Amazon and getting full access to both sides? Maybe it's something that only works for US accounts.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm pretty sure that's still the case, actually. They merged accounts of existing players, but future accounts can still have just one game or just the other. It's just that no-one in their right mind would buy just one when both together cost the same amount.
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if, for some reason, the player somehow enters a code that only unlocks a single faction / side, Customer Service was activating the other faction / side of the game manually. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then how do you explain people buying original copies of both CoH and CoV from places like Amazon and getting full access to both sides? Maybe it's something that only works for US accounts.
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The system is supposed to be setup so that buying City of Heroes or City of Villains or entering a code unlocks both games. Doesn't mean it always works.
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That's probably what I remember. I admit I was going off hazy memories, but I distinctly remember people buying one side's game and getting access to that side only. I must have missed whoever was posting it following up with that fix.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
if, for some reason, the player somehow enters a code that only unlocks a single faction / side, Customer Service was activating the other faction / side of the game manually.
The system is supposed to be setup so that buying City of Heroes or City of Villains or entering a code unlocks both games. Doesn't mean it always works. |
If CS would fix your account to owning both versions if you both just one half of the game, then I was wrong in spirit, even if not in practice. It means they really did unify the game, and the instances of one-side-only accounts are unintended. Oh, well. All the better.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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checking the new dev digest on Massively, just figured out the impetus for this thread...hearty lols @ 'that other game'. If you want a pick me up, scan their forums...the place is littered with hilarious threads.
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My City Was Gone
Quick question about F2P, would the boosters count as F2P. If so, I don't have any problems with that, buying what I want vs. what I don't want in addition to my monthly fee. Curious though, typically if someone worked on a project, and they wind the project up and all went well, they don't typically lay people off, they put them to work somewhere else because they have done a good job. From all accounts, GR was better than a good job. So why layoffs...........and why BABs if he was a lead designer? Was it posted somewhere about him being layed off?
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It's not terribly uncommon to wind up training your replacement, Bull. And Chris Bruce is working with Cryptic Studios, now. So it's likely as not that he had the offer, trained his replacement, saw them through the update, and headed off to a different (Better?) paycheck.|
Originally Posted by thgebull0425
Quick question about F2P, would the boosters count as F2P. If so, I don't have any problems with that, buying what I want vs. what I don't want in addition to my monthly fee. Curious though, typically if someone worked on a project, and they wind the project up and all went well, they don't typically lay people off, they put them to work somewhere else because they have done a good job. From all accounts, GR was better than a good job. So why layoffs...........and why BABs if he was a lead designer? Was it posted somewhere about him being layed off?
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And a Free To Play game of City of Heroes' magnitude would almost certainly have 2 pay schedules. Either you pay the standard $14.99 a month and get free access to everything that you already do, with no access to "Booster Packs" or special items or equipment which are basically short duration buffs that you purchase from a store without paying for it, separately. OR You can be a Free to Play player with access only to a certain number of character and costume slots. You'd also wind up with limited access to some current and future "Adventure Packs". For example: a limit on how many Task Forces you can run in a day, or whether or not you can enter Cimerora/Oroborous/Architect missions.
Please note that I don't know that any of these things are imminent, or how they would be implemented. I'm just making an educated guess based on the current economic and industry methodology.
-Rachel-
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I thought this had been debunked. Is there proof one way or the other?
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
And Chris Bruce is working with Cryptic Studios, now.
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On Linkedin he went from Senior VFX Animator at Cryptic Studios to Senior Animator/VFX Lead at Paragon Studios, and is currently Senior Animator at Cryptic Studios.|
Originally Posted by Flarstux
I thought this had been debunked. Is there proof one way or the other?
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There is a Linkedin bug that will sometimes put you back a square when you have no employment, but that would list him as the Senior VFX Animator at Cryptic Studios, instead of Senior Animator at Cryptic Studios.
So with the title-change comes assurance that it is his current position, rather than the bug.
-Rachel-
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Originally Posted by je_saist
if, for some reason, the player somehow enters a code that only unlocks a single faction / side, Customer Service was activating the other faction / side of the game manually.
The system is supposed to be setup so that buying City of Heroes or City of Villains or entering a code unlocks both games. Doesn't mean it always works. |
Thanks for the info.
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Correct.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
On Linkedin he went from Senior VFX Animator at Cryptic Studios to Senior Animator/VFX Lead at Paragon Studios, and is currently Senior Animator at Cryptic Studios.
There is a Linkedin bug that will sometimes put you back a square when you have no employment, but that would list him as the Senior VFX Animator at Cryptic Studios, instead of Senior Animator at Cryptic Studios. So with the title-change comes assurance that it is his current position, rather than the bug. -Rachel- |
It originally posted that he was with Cryptic, then as we were chatting about it, it changed... and later changed to some humorous alternatives when Chris realized he had an audience-- kinda a cool way to acknowledge the goodbyes. About a week ago, I noticed that it was back to saying Cryptic and even noted that he started there Oct2010-Present... so I'd consider that solid affirmation.
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Honestly, i still feel he did some extremely good work here, and it's my opinion that the new company he's working for could really use him. The animation team that's here now has also been doing great work, so it's not like he left PS without a good animation team.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Correct.
It originally posted that he was with Cryptic, then as we were chatting about it, it changed... and later changed to some humorous alternatives when Chris realized he had an audience-- kinda a cool way to acknowledge the goodbyes. About a week ago, I noticed that it was back to saying Cryptic and even noted that he started there Oct2010-Present... so I'd consider that solid affirmation. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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The company he went to needs a lot of good employees. |
Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Honestly, i still feel he did some extremely good work here, and it's my opinion that the new company he's working for could really use him. The animation team that's here now has also been doing great work, so it's not like he left PS without a good animation team.
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... *sends them a resume to see what happens*
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Subscription is always preferable if the product and the market will support it. You need to consider the original investment those games - I have yet to see one with the with the same level of quality and amount of content as CoX (on the completely F2P games that is). There is absolutely no comparison between CoX and, say, Farmville.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
That's the assumption that F2P is done to offset the "sinking ship" syndrome... which isn't 100% the case. For several years, many academics studying MMO trends have been pointing to the microtransaction models in Asia and their profitability, compared to subscription service models. Stateside, we saw social network "games" making fistfuls of money (from ads and microtransactions) for their "free" games full of micro transactions (and selling your information). Heck, even in console games- with their online stores selling anything from music tracks to expansions to skimpier costumes... I've read industry estimates that predict that in as little as two years, developers will see more revenue from downloadable content than they see from the new game sales through the boutique stores (especially considering the cut the boutique stores get... plus used game sales).
There's plenty of this evidence emerging -- pointing to the idea that the microtransaction model might not be the poor-cousin of the subscription model... it *might* just turn out to be the more profitable model over the long haul... and heck, might make the intellectual property you're using even more valuable by making it recognizable to a wider range of people. That means broadening the IP to other media will be more profitable, increasing your overall portfolio. Granted, I *DO* think that the model would work best on a game built from the ground-up with it in mind, but don't sell the retrofits short just yet... |
The other MMOs that I've seen go to "F2P" are really just giving an extended trial. Those games are still a subscription service, but they have made their free trial unlimited. Those free accounts, like CoX's current trial accounts, are extremely limited. The only difference is that they do not expire and they can purchase game features piecemeal if they choose.
As for downloadable content, of course they're seeing more money because it's easier for people to buy online and download than it is to go to a store and hope they have a copy of the game they want. It would surprise me if NCSoft wasn't already seeing much more income from downloads than from box sales. That, however, is not the same thing as going F2P.
What it really comes down to is potential profit and risk. No company is going to take the risk of going to a F2P model until and unless the potential profits out-weight the potential risks. CoX appears to be a stable and popular MMO (one of the best on the market IMO) and so it seems unlikely that NCSoft would risk their subscription income at this time. Perhaps the market will be different a year from now, but right now it just doesn't seem likely.
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Which, again, is a game-ender for me. The one thing I do NOT want to see in this game is players being tiered into different groups with one having a distinct, tangible advantage over another because they pay more. This is the sort of thing that makes real life harsh and unforgiving and what utterly destroys the feeling of escapism that leisurely activities and fiction in general tends to bring, and on which it tends to sell.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
And a Free To Play game of City of Heroes' magnitude would almost certainly have 2 pay schedules. Either you pay the standard $14.99 a month and get free access to everything that you already do, with no access to "Booster Packs" or special items or equipment which are basically short duration buffs that you purchase from a store without paying for it, separately. OR You can be a Free to Play player with access only to a certain number of character and costume slots. You'd also wind up with limited access to some current and future "Adventure Packs". For example: a limit on how many Task Forces you can run in a day, or whether or not you can enter Cimerora/Oroborous/Architect missions.
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Granted, there are games out there which sell themselves as being harsh, ruthless and full of developer-encouraged griefing. Granted, there are those, but I don't want THIS game - this being City of Heroes - to be among them.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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But yes for three months there were no incentives for preordering over prepurchase, then then that changed. And a lot of people did make thier purchasing decision long before Gamestop/Razer ever entered the picture, on reading that thre was no incentives to preorder. Before there was.