All Things Art: NPC Conversions
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2010-10-10 23:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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He's stated that they'd like to make new versions, but with time issues, the idea is taking what's already in game and converting it for player use. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
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David's pretty much agreed to doing new pieces anyway. He certainly seems to want to. I don't think you make as much sense as you seem to think you thunk you do. |
All I stated is that rather than take a ton of old items, choose one that defines the NPC enemy and make an Ultra version for player use. I suggested ways I wouldn't have a problem obtaining them, then you crashed down on the whole idea because you'd rather not have to have more unlockables.
The idea isn't about how to obtain them. That's what you are getting hung up on. The idea is getting quality over quantity. Hell, I'd love if they unlocked every costume piece for us to use. But, if the quality of the item remains 6 years old, I'd probably never have a use for the item especially when all of the new stuff is far superior to the old.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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The good thing about tying stuff to Badges is that if you already have the Badge, you'll get the unlock right away. Not everything is counted, and thus you might need to re-qualify for an unlockable you should already have access to if it works off of something not counted before. Minor issue, just saying.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Alright, I think I see what you're after.
For example, the Council guns are one of the few unlocks I actively like. You get them for defeating 100 Council, not tied in to any badge or anything. Beat up Council, get their guns. That's how it should work, if it has to be unlock based. Personally, I don't care about functional stuff not being given to us on a silver platter. It's purely aesthetic pieces like costumes, which are simply there to look cool, that I object to being locked away by pointless barriers. |
And I for one do very much feel that those items which are part and parcel to a specific group shouldn't just be stuck in the costume creator for everyone. Or else, if freely given out, then what is the reasoning for not freely giving out Rikti Swords and Council Rifles but making those unlockable? Mind you, a Master of... Badge is a stupidly high threshold for something cosmetic, but making people go a teensy bit out of their way when they want something NOW has never hurt anyone.
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Knives of Artemis have a great-looking sword. I'd love to see that for the sword sets. I wouldn't mind seeing the Ballista helmet either.
Also, Resistance Pistols for Dual Pistols.
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Correct. |
Originally Posted by Commander
He's stated that they'd like to make new versions, but with time issues, the idea is taking what's already in game and converting it for player use.
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| All I stated is that rather than take a ton of old items, choose one that defines the NPC enemy and make an Ultra version for player use. I suggested ways I wouldn't have a problem obtaining them, then you crashed down on the whole idea because you'd rather not have to have more unlockables. |
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| The idea isn't about how to obtain them. That's what you are getting hung up on. The idea is getting quality over quantity. Hell, I'd love if they unlocked every costume piece for us to use. But, if the quality of the item remains 6 years old, I'd probably never have a use for the item especially when all of the new stuff is far superior to the old. |
Seriously? What the heck gave you the idea that I want 6-year old quality items? What I'm saying is that revamping old enemy groups AND giving players NPC related items could go hand in hand. Revamp old groups with high quality parts, at the same time using the new assets to make PC compatible versions, rather than having to reverse engineer all the old junk for use. It kill two birds with one stone. I'm just getting incredibly tired of the same old mantra that, somehow, 'New shinies is better than revamping!'
Revamp result: New Shiny
Added result: Removal of old junk
Downside: Error: None detected
Revamp of NPCs: Coincide: PC versions of NPC parts: Win/Win situation.
Savvy?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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True that. And I don't flat out object to unlockables. I just object to stuff like the 'Watchman' accolade for the Rikti sword/axe/rifle and such, which has to be earned again every new char, or things like the Red Cap knives on a Villain, which is simply a chore to achieve. Or the Nemesis rifle redside. I will not talk about the Nemesis rifle!!|
Originally Posted by Eisregen_NA
The good thing about tying stuff to Badges is that if you already have the Badge, you'll get the unlock right away. Not everything is counted, and thus you might need to re-qualify for an unlockable you should already have access to if it works off of something not counted before. Minor issue, just saying.
And I for one do very much feel that those items which are part and parcel to a specific group shouldn't just be stuck in the costume creator for everyone. Or else, if freely given out, then what is the reasoning for not freely giving out Rikti Swords and Council Rifles but making those unlockable? Mind you, a Master of... Badge is a stupidly high threshold for something cosmetic, but making people go a teensy bit out of their way when they want something NOW has never hurt anyone. |
Simply put, costume parts are a purely aesthetic and, supposedly, fun part of the game. (Its all fun, but you know what I mean.) They should not be locked away in such a way that they become a chore to acquire. That totally defeats the purpose of them.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I like how quickly this turned from a discussion of legacy costume additions to a pie fight.
=D
on topic,
Freakshow armors
PPD stuff
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I actually zoned into Port Oakes via the VG teleporter and was standing next to a guy doing a damn good job of imitating a Vampyre. So good in fact that I immediately SJ'd away, figuring he was part of someone's ambush (I play with floating names off) before I realized he was just a player. Also, I bring my redcap pet out on Katie TFs >.>|
Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
For three-point-five; don't get me started on the vet pet rikti monkey or redcap in certain missions. We already have points of confusion within the game. There are already special event costume codes flying around. So concern of further confusion as a means to argue against highly adaptable but pretty generic costume bits that help plug thematic holes in the CC library being converted from existing NPC groups just doesn't hold water for me.
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For my actual list:
Carnie costumes. Everything from the Fencer is top priority for me. I'd love the Illusionist dresses, but that probably falls under full-body stuff you won't give us D:
Masks: Skull, Tsoo, and Carnie. They don't have to be an exact match, just give us the ability to have the full-face porcelain mask and use the optional design elements. You'll be surprised by how we use them!
Sibyl costumes. Even if we don't get the "wavy" effect (though this would be a perfect opportunity to give the waist-cape to the rest of the non-widow population!) the design and the belt are excellent.
Cimmoria chest straps and sandals.
Kheldian sash. I agree with whoever suggested all Khelds have access to this and everyone else gets it if they do Moonfire. This is the ONLY time I will suggest unlocking costume pieces, because I hate that, but it IS a signature piece to Khelds, and you get the "Honorary Peacebringer" badge for Moonfire.
Legacy trimmings. We can duplicate a lot of the Legacy Chain with the martial arts robes, but the chest/neck/shoulders, boots and helmet have no good analogue. Please gimme!
FASHION SHOW OUTFITS! Those things are awesome and they're just going to WASTE in that one mission!
Banished Pantheon Shaman. The primative loincloth, feather/palm leaf collar, the grass skirts, the arm and calf wraps, all of these please! A lot of us have Native/primative characters who would benefit enormously from these pieces!
Animal parts. Want a Beast booster without having to come up with a ton of new pieces? Snakes, Minotaurs and the Council/Fifth war-wolves are your template. All three of those look great, they have awesome heads, great skins, and heck, I'd love a release of the body types. You'd be surprised how happy this would make a lot of people, and how those pieces would get used!!
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Originally Posted by MagicFlyingHippy
Knives of Artemis have a great-looking sword. I'd love to see that for the sword sets. I wouldn't mind seeing the Ballista helmet either.
Also, Resistance Pistols for Dual Pistols. |
I have been asking for this sword for years. Plz, Mr. Noble Savage.... pllllzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
Just to add, I'd love to see some of the NPC faces ported over. Gimme some Luddite facial hair!
Also, can we get Specialist Harrison's hairstyle?
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Eee! I have an excuse to beg for the thing I've been wanting forever. My favorite character is a Bride of Frankenstein/Bride of Reanimator type. I would love it if we could have some sort of patchwork flesh option like the Vahzilok. I imagine it could work like the zombie option we already have. It would be even better if it were a tights option so it could be worn under skirts.
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That's the "Roman short hair" I was referring in my previous post.
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Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Just to add, I'd love to see some of the NPC faces ported over. Gimme some Luddite facial hair!
Also, can we get Specialist Harrison's hairstyle? |
CARNIVAL OF SHADOWS
1. I must have [Vanessa DeVore's Hair]! That is the main priority.
2. Second is her [Thigh High Boots].
3. The [Arm Warmers/Long Gloves].
4. The rest are regular Ring Mistress parts we want.
I'm also dying to have [Master Illusionist's hair]! You can definitely make a new version, a Queen Elizabeth version maybe...
CIMERORIAN
1. Ugh must have [Sybil Gowns]! I know I know, they said it will have clipping issues, but I refuse! I must have it.
COUNCIL
1. [Maestro's Collar] a must! Maybe a new version.
2. [Arakhn Collar] and her whole outfit.
ARACHNOS
1. [Night Widow Gloves]
2. Dr. Aeon Clones costume pieces!
[The Jeans]
[The Top]
CIRCLE OF THORNS
1. Behemoth's [Loincloth] or Hellfrost [Loincloth]
2. Everything Succubus. First we want [Succubus Hair].
3. [Succubus Thigh High Boots]
THE CABAL
Not very crazy about this but, Villains should have access to their costume pieces.
CREY
1. [Countess Crey Cocktail Dress], and her [HAIR]!
2. [Crey Scientist] lab coat.
DOCKWORKERS
1. [Dockworker Heavy] one piece outfit.
SCRAPYARDERS
1. [Foreman]'s jacket, jeans, hat, everything!
MU
1. All things [Goddess Hequat]
SNAKES
1. [Necklace] or armor plates, the arm details etc.
MISCELLANEOUS
1. Strip her down and give all her costume pieces to us! [Everything Candy Lebeaux]
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Originally Posted by Goblin_Queen
Agreed! In an ideal world where resources were readily available I would strive to give something new, something converted from current NPC factions and something upgraded from old costume bits. A three pronged attack. Get everyone something each Issue and chip away at the pile of awesome out there.
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THIS!
An excellent Idea! add a bit from the three. everyone gets what they want.
Prometheus: ... so what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
Me: From a certain point of view?
Prometheus: You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on your point of view.
Me: You're right about that. Power Blast is very pretty from a certain point of view. But that point of view is not head-on. <Kaboom> - Arcanaville.
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"Shinies" in the broadest sense, yes. Costumes, no. All this does is waste good costume bits. Are badges, recipes, ehancements, experience, inf, prestige, powers, slots and levels not enough?|
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
Release some as Defeat Badge unlockables, arc rewards, Accolade rewards, recipes, shop items through specific contacts or any combination of the above. Please just don't hand it all over to us for absolutely nothing (and I don't mean cash). IMO, there needs to be more shinies to work for in the game.
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I say this again - having to unlock the "good" costume pieces before you can make a specific costume is no different than having to unlock the "good" letters of the alphabet if you want to make a decent name, and I hope your ideal heroic name doesn't contain any vowels.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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"We" don't want more items regardless. "We" want more items in the costume creator at character creation. "We" would sooner have NO NEW PIECES AT ALL than have good pieces added locked behind TFs. "We" would sooner PAY for our new pieces than have them for "free" for the price of a grind.|
Originally Posted by Commander
Don't get caught up on how to obtain it. First, let's get them to agree to making new bits and pieces. Rather than call off the war before the first battle starts, let them see that the main point is that we want more items, regardless.
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And, yes, I am completely serious. I would sooner have nothing than TF-locked costumes.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Top of my list: The Kheldian sashes!
Girdle and upper arm pieces from the Sybils (yes I know that the 39 month Vet badge gives us a Championship belt similair to the Sybil girdle but the detail is a off-putting for non-boxer themed characters.)
Please a proper Trenchcoat *sob* with up-turned collar from the Syndicate lot. Or Dark Watcher's trenchcoat with maybe a canvas texture to it?
Leg and arm details from KoA and Longbow.
Sandals from the Cimerorans that we can colour! (Valentine's Event rewards we can't colour*sniff* )
I know you said the Carnie mask is out how about a porcelin texture to the face?
Any upper arm pieces, necklaces or long evening style gloves.
Something I forgot...
Devouring Earth. Yup, that's right. Tentacle mouths and Devoured skin texture. Branches growing up out of the backs and shoulders. Total tree hair (not that whipped-back leaf stuff that is the ONLY option we have now!) and bark skin. There's been enough DE toxin dumped into the water by now and enough kidnapped civilians that didn't quite get rescued in time, I want the option to make more DE/dryad type characters.
I can not stress enough how bad an idea unlockable costume parts are. Remember how pisses everyone was at the vet costumes, that is no different for the casual player that dosen't have time to do a TF to get a costume item. It also hinders concepts by not allowing characters to have these costume items at the beginning.
Back on topic.
The PPD hard suit is another oft requested item, that I would like to have.
If you would just share some of the costumes already in the game it would be cool too. Why again can't DB have the gladius that is unlocked by defeating 100 Romans?
The Romulus belt is nothing more than the shoulders placed at the waist, and seems to be much the same as the Samurai belt in function. As far as the Samurai belt goes, it has a sash under it. Just remove the armor pieces and give us the under sash.
Many of the NPC groups have leg armor, it would be really nice to have those thigh options.
ANY NPC back pack would be great, there are several current costume pieces that look weird w/o a complimenting back portion.
I will add more as I think of it.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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David,|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Couple of considerations to keep in mind as you make your suggestions: we'd probably choose not to make a player version of an NPC costume part if it a) doesn't fit on the existing character rigs/work well with other parts, or if it's b) very, very signature and intimately tied to the group or character's look (like Maelstrom's 'heart' for example, which really should remain unique), or c), if it creates an opportunity for confusion and/or griefing (i.e. if by using the costume part, you could look EXACTLY like an enemy and therefore confuse other players).
Skull and Carnival masks are in the gray area for me, but most other parts are fair game for discussion. |
I have to call this one. All the Arachnos VEPs make this silly. We have no trouble running a mission full of Arachnos with VEPs on the team. Why would any other combo be confusing?
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
Some of the stuff I'd most like to see available to players overall would be:
Circle of Thorns
Carnival of Shadows
Sky Raiders
The Lost
And yes I'd probably rather see those sooner than new pieces.
@Draeth Darkstar
Virtue [Heroes, Roleplay], Freedom [Villains], Exalted [All Sides, Roleplay]
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No. They are not enough and mostly irrelevant to 'shinies' (ie. extras). Good costume bits are always going to be in the pipeline (for free or fee); so waste is irrelevant to the issue.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
"Shinies" in the broadest sense, yes. Costumes, no. All this does is waste good costume bits. Are badges, recipes, ehancements, experience, inf, prestige, powers, slots and levels not enough?
I say this again - having to unlock the "good" costume pieces before you can make a specific costume is no different than having to unlock the "good" letters of the alphabet if you want to make a decent name, and I hope your ideal heroic name doesn't contain any vowels. |
I, personally, like unlocking extras that are off the beaten path of repetitive, linear progression. And after playing through over 2,000+ plus levels and about as many hours of repetitive, linear progression; going off the beaten path is what keeps things fresh for me... keeps me coming back.
Funny thing is, for as long as you, I or any other long standing player is concerned; most of the requirements that could be thrown at us (in a minor sense) has already been met by more than a handful of the toons in our possession... so the issue of unlocking (as far as you and I are concerned) is mainly moot except for new and fairly new toons; which at our experience and abilities, would make it a breeze to go through and have most minor extras unlocked in short order.
Honestly, I don't subscribe to the philosophy of needing to have everything right off the bat; I don't live in a Ricky Schroeder world. But to each his own.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
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I have never done the Moonfire TF, and I never plan to. If I had to do it to get the sash I have been wanting for years, I will not be happy about it. I don't always have the time for a TF, I know I am not alone in that. |
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
No. They are not enough and mostly irrelevant to 'shinies' (ie. extras). Good costume bits are always going to be in the pipeline (for free or fee); so waste is irrelevant to the issue.
I, personally, like unlocking extras that are off the beaten path of repetitive, linear progression. And after playing through over 2,000+ plus levels and about as many hours of repetitive, linear progression; going off the beaten path is what keeps things fresh for me... keeps me coming back. Funny thing is, for as long as you, I or any other long standing player is concerned; most of the requirements that could be thrown at us (in a minor sense) has already been met by more than a handful of the toons in our possession... so the issue of unlocking (as far as you and I are concerned) is mainly moot except for new and fairly new toons; which at our experience and abilities, would make it a breeze to go through and have most minor extras unlocked in short order. Honestly, I don't subscribe to the philosophy of needing to have everything right off the bat; I don't live in a Ricky Schroeder world. But to each his own. |
I can live with defeat unlocks, because they can be done a little at a time, TFs (no matter the original design idea) are a start, and finish event in most cases.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
I'm pretty sure the folks arguing about whether/what/how things ought to be unlocked are either rapidly approaching or have gone past Noble Savage's Rule #4 in his OP.
The man wants to know what you'd like to see and why, not filter through post after post of your deepest feelings on running TFs or getting Defeat Badges.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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I agree and have already stated how I felt about TF unlocks for costumes; sucks. I still want freebies too but I won't have a conniption if I have to put a hurting on a hundred Carnies to get those snazzie back pieces they've got. |
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
I have never done the Moonfire TF, and I never plan to. If I had to do it to get the sash I have been wanting for years, I will not be happy about it. I don't always have the time for a TF, I know I am not alone in that.
I can live with defeat unlocks, because they can be done a little at a time, TFs (no matter the original design idea) are a start, and finish event in most cases. |
[I'm going to alter my thoughts a bit. I would say the exception would be 'signature' pieces that we're not supposed to get anyway. So, instead of getting Roman Armor for the ITF (as an example) you would get Romulus' Roman Armor and Nictus Aura. (meanwhile, the standard armor pieces could be purchased from the Cimeroran vendor as a piece or a recipe]
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
What I'm suggesting is normal course of play rewards that anyone can attain; solo or team... with multiple ways to earn them.
Am I saying that all costume pieces should be released this way? Of course not but there's nothing wrong with mixing it up a little (short of charging $10 per set). And there's nothing wrong with not getting everything handed to a player on a silver platter. (I would even contend that the 'strings attached' to the Vanguard pieces are pushing it.)
For example, the Council guns are one of the few unlocks I actively like. You get them for defeating 100 Council, not tied in to any badge or anything. Beat up Council, get their guns. That's how it should work, if it has to be unlock based.
Personally, I don't care about functional stuff not being given to us on a silver platter. It's purely aesthetic pieces like costumes, which are simply there to look cool, that I object to being locked away by pointless barriers.