All Things Art: NPC Conversions
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2010-10-10 23:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
The boots and dresses used in the Fashion Show mission
Perhaps letting us use a Rikti Head?
Kheldian Sash
Carnival Mask
And it would help a lot if the chest details were seperated into "gear" and "emblems" or something
All the leg and arm details from the Knives or Longbow would be awesome
Thanks for opening this dialogue, NS. Means a lot that you guys are listening.
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Ahhh. It is 4am by me. Dang time zones. |
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
It's only 1am.
 Just trying to catch up on things after being in New York all weekend. |
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Awh, were you at that Meet & Greet, too? Man, I missed everyone there. |
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
It's only 1am.
Just trying to catch up on things after being in New York all weekend. |
Also, since I'm done using the word "sashes" for at least three days now, I'm gonna go ahead and ask if we can possibly get those wicked awesome packpacks that Crey Eliminators, Crisis Units, and Protectors have (as well as Arachnos Engineers) because man, those things are cool, and I love backpacks.
Oooh, I like this thread!
Definitely Rikti armour, maybe changed a little to fit our characters' bulk. (or lack of)
Circle robes, the ones that come all the way down to the feet. I'm not even talking about the belt or the shoulder pieces or even the weird hats, just those down-to-the-feet robes.
And, lastly, a 'proper' trench coat that I've seen Dark Watcher, Protean, and those Syndicate Strikers wear. The ones with the collar sticking up. 
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Don't get yer hopes up for that one. It is likely to still not be an option.
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Originally Posted by The Hound
Circle robes, the ones that come all the way down to the feet. I'm not even talking about the belt or the shoulder pieces or even the weird hats, just those down-to-the-feet robes.
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THIS! So definitely this, though that technically would fall into some of the costume editor menu revamp that has been requested/mentioned in other threads.|
Originally Posted by Utopia
And it would help a lot if the chest details were seperated into "gear" and "emblems" or something
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I'd also like to second what people are calling the sashes I guess? The oracle costumes from the ITF, for example. Something like that is something we've been wanting for a long time.
And robes!! CoT robes! Tsoo robes! Though I can see how those and the 'sashes' would be hard to tie to current character models without splitting them into a top half and bottom half.
Something else that should be fairly easy to put in.... (theoretically).
The shoulder holsters that some of the PPD use.
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Seriously, there's no bigger proponent of going back and fixing stuff than me (ask anyone in the office) |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Can I ask, why is it that you guys seem to really hate going back and re-doing stuff? Whats with the whole insistence on 'new shinies' all the time, wether its zones, content or NPCs? Do the higher ups and Marketting Empire enemy group have a role in it all?
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, but if ALL we did was revamp existing content, it wouldn't contribute much to the game. Even with a fresh coat of paint, you'd still be playing the same basic story in the same kind of environment, right?So by far, the better return on investment is to focus on giving you guys NEW stories to experience, new zones to explore, and new enemies to fight. For my money, that's 1000x more fun. But obviously, revamps and revisits (like Faultline, Ultramode, new tails, alternate animation options, Girlfriend From Hell, hospital gurneys in hazard zones, etc.) will continue to happen alongside the new stuff.
David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
Can I put in a vote AGAINST the sybil clothing? I just don't think ALL of the unique pieces should be made available to players... just a decent smattering of them: especially ones that all but ask the player to join them. Ouroboros is a good example.
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Yes to high collar trenchcoats. |
Originally Posted by The Hound
Circle robes, the ones that come all the way down to the feet. I'm not even talking about the belt or the shoulder pieces or even the weird hats, just those down-to-the-feet robes.
And, lastly, a 'proper' trench coat that I've seen Dark Watcher, Protean, and those Syndicate Strikers wear. The ones with the collar sticking up. |
And as for full length robes, I would settle for more designs for the trenchcoat tail piece, textured to fit existing tops and enabled to use separately, similar to how the fur from the mystic robe is now available separately.
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David,
I totally understand your concerns about player characters looking too similar to NPCs, and the potential griefing situations it can cause. One way around this is to not give players entire NPC costume sets. Instead, just a few notable pieces. Going back to the Skulls as an example: If players were given their masks and emblem jackets, they could come close to recreating the NPC model, but they couldn't perfect the look due to the NPC-only "tucked in pants and boots" combo that The Skulls, Hellions, Crey security guards, and several other NPCs wear. I realize that this would still allow for some griefing to occur, but caution must sometimes be thrown to the wind. After all, those people who would use availability of NPC parts to grief others would likely grief other players through other means if those NPC parts weren't available.
Also, the "griefing other players by looking too much like NPCs" argument kinda loses steam when Paragon Studios gives away costume powers at every meet and greet they do.
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Posting before having seen the whole thread:
First and foremost, I want any pieces of Fake Nemesis that we can get. Most importantly, the gloves and boots are my first priorities, as well as the steam engine backpack if backpacks ever become available. Nemesis has the right idea about big boots and gloves that our editor mostly lacks.
Secondly, Freakshow. More specifically the Tank torso as a chest detail, optionally without the large plate behind the head if that clips too much, the large arm braces of Juicers an Stunners as well as their Jacob's Ladder backpacks.
*VERY IMPORTANT*
The shoulders of Romulus Augustulus. David, I assure you that those are not "signature." They are just twice the right shoulder from the Gladiator shoulders set we already have with some feathering. If you must, just get rid of the feathering and give us just two of the large gladiator shoulders as a symmetrical set. PLEEEASE!
Tsoo robes, as found on Sorcerers and many bosses, would be very nice. I've heart tell that it's animations that are the problem (Martial Arts keeps coming up), but between them, the Tsoo Bosses already use pretty much all of Martial Arts.
Pieces from Primal Earth clockwork would be nice, those skeletal robotic rusty (or non rusty) parts that make up the Clockwork are pretty nice, though I imagine they may not be consistent with the player rigs.
That's about all I can think of at the moment. I may have more later.
*edit*
And because I'm an idiot, I forgot two:
1. Rikti gear. Granted, not all of the Rikti's gear even works on human models, but I'm mostly looking for the shoulders and the back details.
2. Sybil outfits. I know the danger of multiple cape rigs, but what I really want is Sister Solaris's top. I don't think that's signature, as it's just a lace top, and she still has her insignia belt and her FOUR cape rigs. I just want that top for my own use.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think we're on the same page. From this thread, I'd like to generate a compact list of, say, 10-15 individual pieces (and maybe a full theme or two) for possible player use, just to get a conversation started. |
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
David,
I totally understand your concerns about player characters looking too similar to NPCs, and the potential griefing situations it can cause. One way around this is to not give players entire NPC costume sets. Instead, just a few notable pieces. Going back to the Skulls as an example: If players were given their masks and emblem jackets, they could come close to recreating the NPC model, but they couldn't perfect the look due to the NPC-only "tucked in pants and boots" combo that The Skulls, Hellions, Crey security guards, and several other NPCs wear. I realize that this would still allow for some griefing to occur, but caution must sometimes be thrown to the wind. After all, those people who would use availability of NPC parts to grief others would likely grief other players through other means if those NPC parts weren't available. Also, the "griefing other players by looking too much like NPCs" argument kinda loses steam when Paragon Studios gives away costume powers at every meet and greet they do. |
Griefing will happen regardless, but obviously it should be kept to a minimum.
David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
COH Concept Art Gallery now open at http://pixelsaurus.deviantart.com/
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Human David Logic: Flawed|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Seriously, there's no bigger proponent of going back and fixing stuff than me (ask anyone in the office)
, but if ALL we did was revamp existing content, it wouldn't contribute much to the game. Even with a fresh coat of paint, you'd still be playing the same basic story in the same kind of environment, right?So by far, the better return on investment is to focus on giving you guys NEW stories to experience, new zones to explore, and new enemies to fight. For my money, that's 1000x more fun. But obviously, revamps and revisits (like Faultline, Ultramode, new tails, alternate animation options, Girlfriend From Hell, hospital gurneys in hazard zones, etc.) will continue to happen alongside the new stuff. |
Revamp contribution: Considerable
Ultra-mode: Fresh Coat of paint
Revamped NPCs: Repaired chassis
Enabling: Human speech function
Thing is, the old NPCs don't look any better than they did six years ago. Ultra mode didn't change all that much for the character models, just the environement.
So, groups that looked ugly before Ultra mode (Lost, Outcasts, Trolls, Council/5th etc) still look the same. And they will continue to look six years old and pixelated until such time as a revamp.
It's like the old Phalanx TFs. I know that's not your perview and all
but the concept is the same. 'Why revamp when you can make new shinies?' I'll tell ya why; because old busted isn't as fun as new hawtness. And old busted stays old busted until it gets made new hawtness. So, in essence, re-vamping stuff IS adding something new. It's taking away something old and rusty and replacing it with a shiny new part. If that part is PC friendly, so much more the better.Hope that makes sense. It's godawful 9:30 here, and the damn flat had no damn milk so I've had no damn breakfast....
Hungry Alpha is hungry!!
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I wonder why I now want to look at Men in Black 2 again...
Must have been something Alpha said. (Enjoy your breakfast and milk)
But more in the spirit of the thread.
PPD hardsuit would be a niiiice one or at least parts from it.
Sybil suit, yes that might be the cape thing, but it looks just sooo good.
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"No, no, you drove that old busted joint. I drive...the new hawtness." *Points at K* "Old and busted." *Points at himself* "New hawtness."|
Originally Posted by Lady Arete
I wonder why I now want to look at Men in Black 2 again...
Must have been something Alpha said. (Enjoy your breakfast and milk) |
"..." *Remote unlocks the car, hands keys to K* "Old, busted hawtness..."
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Back detail options please!
like backpacks and such!
The costume pieces used by the WarWorks would be good, as well as the smoother and less skeletal clockwork pieces used by such characters as IVy. Also, the pieces used by the low-level Praetorian Police would be nice.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Yeah, I think backpacks is a #1 priority for putting the thumbscrews on the tech guys and making it work. Would add so many options.
And the large PPD gloves. And reason we didn't get them? Any please, don't say clipping. I'll scream ><
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Hmm yeah the griefing players arguement does fall down, especially with regards the fact I actually OWN a temp power Carnival of Shadows Ring Mistress costume that I managed to snag from a forum contest.
As was said before, make pieces available but not the whole thing.
Carnival of Shadows:
Mask.
Sash.
Harlequinn bustier top.
That leaves out the boots and a variety of tops from the rest of the group.
The Freakshow just the chest detail (looks like it is pumping Excelsior right into their heart) and the arms (hammer and claw variations). We can't then recreate the hair, the pierced tongue face or the shoulders to go with it.
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If you were to do this, DEFINITELY go for the Freakshow first. They're probably the most signature and beloved group CoH has.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
With all the time in the world, that would be awesome, but redo-ing all the costume work for whole villain groups isn't feasible. That said, I imagine we would add some shader improvements to anything we do touch.
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Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
Yeah, their also amongst those in need of a quite heavy redo, IMO. Low textures, low detail faces...even the new Super Stunners look fairly meh.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Those boots
That armour
That hat and belt
Crey and Knives of Artemis get a couple spiff looking headsets/earpieces that would be neat to have. Also maybe a way to mimic that cyborg hand that some Crey get to wear along with their business suits.
Apart from that, I would say take a look at tattoos and other body art available throughout the game. From the Fortune teller in the lowbie hero mission even up to more recent additions. Our choices in that department have been limited. I fully realize that allowing for tattoos to fit in with our existing options well is the main reason it hasn't been done. To let players have it would basically require either individual control over each arm appearance or dozens of new skin textures and making sure lots of existing patterns work on each and every one. I'm just asking for the issue to be reexamined.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Creative people like to be able to do something from the ground up... make it theirs, not re-do somebody else's work. Call it ego if you want, but I can't say I disagree with the sentiment if it plays a role.
Also, if you are going to invest the time and effort, it seems more logical to ADD things rather than to essentially add nothing but to simply make something that is already there, a bit prettier. The whole "if it ain't broke... blah blah blah."
All that said, I would LOVE it if the NPC groups got a bit of a touch up here and there. Completely redoing entire groups? Unnecessary. Just improving a few things here and there would go a LONG way. Heck, just to give the Skulls some better more realistic heads and newer jackets would be a huge boon.
(FPARN!!)