All Things Art: NPC Conversions
By
Abraxxus,
Posted on: 2010-10-10 23:56 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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. Don't read too much into it or get your hopes too high. His first post specifically said "So in this thread, let's talk specifically about the possibility of reaching back into the COH archives and getting you those options. IF we decided to do that, what would be your top choices?". He even emphasized the IF, he didn't ever say when. It's still just spitballing and conjecture at this point.|
Originally Posted by Jophiel
Well, the conversation has moved from IF we should get NPC costumes to WHICH of the NPC costumes they're going to work on. I'd call that progress.
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The clockwork key back piece is likely too "signature" and involves a back item which we cant have yet anyway.
CoT robes have long been discussed as to why we can't have them.
Here's my list of the top 15 NPC costume pieces I'd like to get:
1: Kheldian Sash (This is something I've been waiting for since I joined the game and is the one costume pieces that will really complete the look for a lot of my characters)
2. Vanguard Belt w/ Thigh Armor
3. Vanguard Backpack
4. Praetorian Resistance Shirt (Like in this pic: http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//c/c...ceFighter1.jpg)
5. Legacy Chain Shoulders/Chest Pieces
6. Legacy Chain Helmets
7. Ouroboros Mender Shoulder Piece
8. Ouroboros Mender Belt
9. Ouroboros Mender Chest Piece (The one with the Ouroboros emblem)
10. Luddite Boots (Like the ones in this pic: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/w/images//e/ec/Luddite1.jpg)
11. Sky Raider Gloves
12. Sky Raider Helmet
13. Vahzilok Mortificator Skull Hat
14. Nemesis Soldier Helmet
15. Nemesis Soldier Boots
A full set I'd like to eventually see are the Paragon PPD Hardsuits.
Characters:
- Dawnshift (50 Peacebringer/Virtue)
If we can't get Carnival of Shadows Masks then take the suggestion from upthread please Noble_Savage.
A porcelain mask (in female and male variants) that can have mask patterns applied to it (lipstick, lipstick with makeup etc. those ones).
Edit: Also agree with Tyger, Signature NPCs get Signature pieces which keep them unique, everything else should be fair game.
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I personally don't care if we get them or not except for how they fill other desired needs (military add-ons, steampunk, etc). I've never been one to dream of playing a Carnie or Freakshow. But I still see progress |
Originally Posted by Knightfox
. Don't read too much into it or get your hopes too high.
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Forgot Sky Raiders in my "military stuff" groups. Just assume anyone with the various military/spec-ops pouches, holsters, sheathes, and other attachments is someone I want.
Thanks for this, David. I've read a couple conversations about this kind of thing lately and I'm glad to see a thread such as this pop up. I feel that these sorts of conversions are equally as important as new pieces, which in turn are equally as important as the graphical 'touch ups' you've mentioned being a possibility. I honestly can't think of why any one is more important than the others. Balance is obviously key. My NPC costume wants are far too many to list, and most of them are in this thread. But allow me to repeat my biggest wants:
- Kheldian Sashes
- Carnival Pieces
The textures won't be able to perfectly match the Carnies, as they use more than two colours. But I'm sure most of us asking for these pieces really won't mind if what we get isn't quite as inherently garish. The mask is a biggie for me, and I feel the reasoning against converting it isn't a great one considering what others have said in this thread. Some of us are trying to creatively make our characters look like they belong in a certain group. If I wanted to grief, I'd just pull out the [Ring Mistress Costume] you guys gave me.
- Ouroboros Pieces
Thanks again for this thread, Mr Savage. A second thanks for actually reading it.
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Originally Posted by Equation
Update old villain groups with parts that can translate to the character creator better.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
With all the time in the world, that would be awesome, but redo-ing all the costume work for whole villain groups isn't feasible. That said, I imagine we would add some shader improvements to anything we do touch.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
So by far, the better return on investment is to focus on giving you guys NEW stories to experience, new zones to explore, and new enemies to fight. For my money, that's 1000x more fun. But obviously, revamps and revisits (like Faultline, Ultramode, new tails, alternate animation options, Girlfriend From Hell, hospital gurneys in hazard zones, etc.) will continue to happen alongside the new stuff.
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So, take an NPC faction with old pixelated uninspired outfits and create a brand new wardrobe for them that works on player models. It's my understanding that NPCs can use player outfits rather readily, no? Because once you re-do their outfits for players, then you can use the pieces to re-create the NPC faction with the newer, better, more fashion-forward pieces.
Basically, you create, e.g., the New Hellion Costume Set for PCs. Then, re-dress the actual Hellions with the new pieces. Win-win.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
if it creates an opportunity for confusion and/or griefing (i.e. if by using the costume part, you could look EXACTLY like an enemy and therefore confuse other players).
Griefing will happen regardless, but obviously it should be kept to a minimum. |
1. The player ATs of Arachnos Soldiers and Widows look pretty much exactly like Arachnos found in every PvP zone. This alone takes the idea that players can't look like NPCs in PvP zones and completely invalidates it. If NPC spoofing was *really* a Dev-concern, then they would never have made these ATs.
2. With Longbow having so many red-and-white spandex variations, a Longbow outfit can be made to easily spoof them, who are also found in every PvP zone. (In fact, I've actually done that to great success.)
3. 'Temp' Costume Powers perfectly... PERFECTLY... spoof NPCs found in PvP zones.
4. Have you *ever* received a complaint from *players* about someone who spoofed an NPC? Or received concerns from *players* about that possibility? Are the PvP forums alit with warnings about *not* giving players NPC costumes because they're afraid of spoofing? Don't protect players from something they aren't seeking protection from. Just the opposite, there are large numbers of players asking for NPC costumes. Please check in with Matt and Melissa about this: "Give the players what they want." This issue has always been exclusively a Dev-concern. One which they have violated over and over again while claiming they adhere to it. Please stop the charade (pun not intended).
So, really, when you make that argument... I find it.. I don't know what to say. I don't want to personalize the issue and say I'm insulted; nor do I want to really say what I think about that argument and insult you. It's just wrong. Factually wrong. It's a non-argument since it's like saying, "I don't want to give the impression that the world isn't flat." The world isn't flat... it's OK to give that impression.
NPC spoofing is a dead issue because the Devs have already made NPC spoofing not only possible, but probable. Saying you don't want to make spoofing possible is ignoring that reality.
Edit: Check out this spoofing thread. I, and many other players would be easily fooled by these spoofs. Going all the way isn't going to change things much.
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Kheldian sashes, again, please. Either just for Khelds or every AT like suggested earlier opened up with Moonfire TF or something, doesnt matter to me as long as we get em.
EDIT: I'd also like the Lost hoodies, like someone mentions later.
1. Kheldian sashes - can suit multiple origins, and we currently have nothing like them. A lot of bang for buck, here. The Circle of Thorns (including Akarist) also have similar sashes, though with runic designs.
2. Malta/ Knives of Artemis nightvision goggles - can also suit multiple origins, *seems* relatively simple.
3. Legacy Chain helmets - in particular Adamant of Steel or Tellus of Earth.
4. Succubus boots - well, males got magicians masks.
5. Tsoo shoulder sword things - probably a bit more technically complex, but damned cool. Most visible on the enforcers.
6. Tsoo/ Carnie porcelain masks.
Nightstar's blades!
"if I am guilty for what goes on in my mind, than give me the electric chair for all my future crimes"
So, after that mild flame above (sorry!), let me bring up an on-topic point:
Remember when I brought up the request in a different ATArt thread about photo-realistic faces that some NPCs have for them to be given to players?
See here and here.
You seemed to be interested in that.
And lo and behold, new NPCs started showing up with those photo-realistic faces again (some of the Praetorian PPD).
Are you taunting me? 
Anyway, since those faces are NPC parts... this is the thread to request they be released into the wild!
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I know it has been said already but all thing Tsoo, especially the sword sheaths (I'd like crossed sheaths and the paralleled sheaths.)
Let's see if I can come up with 15 or so. Some will be specific pieces, others will be theme sets:
1) Skulls mask and emblem jacket
2) Hellions mask and chest emblem
3) Kheldian/Carnie-styled sash
4) Longbow torso and hip patterns, and Freedom Corps chest emblem
5) Ouroboros insignia gear of some sort
6) Crey field agent-styled headset
7) Legacy Chain headwear and shoulder/chest mantles
8) Crab/Bane Spider bladed gloves for SoA characters' alternate costumes
9) Syndicate patterns and costume items
...
Okay, so I could only come up with 9 things for my wishlist.
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
1. Carnival of Shadows pieces. Specifically those used by the Ring Mistresses and minions. I don't care too much for the masks though.
2. Sybil costumes! Even if we get them without cap physics loin cloths, static loin cloths, or blocks access to capes/wings.
3. Candy Lebeuax's (sp?) costume if somehow we're allowed it.
4. Banished Pantheon shamans have some nice parts, particularly the static loin cloths. Though I'd be very disappointed if we didn't get those for male and female costumes.
5. Even if we can't get the robes, the Circle of Thorns mages have some other really nice parts. Besides, we need big funny hats to show how evil our toons are!
6. Civilian costume parts from the civvie NPCs wandering around. I would certainly love to put some of my characters in some normal clothing from time to time.
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If I could choose just one set, it would be the Knives of Artemis. All of the little deatils on their costumes make them great, and many different player character concepts would benefit from them.
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Originally Posted by Noble Savage
I think we're on the same page. From this thread, I'd like to generate a compact list of, say, 10-15 individual pieces (and maybe a full theme or two) for possible player use, just to get a conversation started.
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A friend of mine and I would be very interested in the blades iVy has,
PPD Hardsuits
Female Carnie Gear (back option)
Loin cloths (like ghost widow's); shorter versions for males
Warwolf head
Rikti head
Rikti Armor pieces (especially gloves/legs)
Dockworker overalls
Spectral Aura (like the spectral pirates have)
Opening up all NPC group costumes as Halloween (and/or other) Temps.
Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars
Who was it who said that NPC parts wouldn't be popular, again?
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I might be the only one, but I've wanted the "retro Arachnos" pieces from the Mender Tesseract strike force (at least on Soldiers/Widows) ever since I first saw them.
Honestly I'd like to see more chest pieces. Right now the only two sense-making chest pieces are Ring Strap (okay) and Resistance Strap (moar of that please!).
Marauder has two, Silos has one, the Menders have nifty three-prong ones. I'm talking more chest straps that could be used to hold shoulder pieces.
Also:
Mercs/Malta backpacks
The Wyvern Monocle (it's there, I swear) and chest plate
Leg attachments such as plates, bags, and armored tubes. I don't mean the giant cans in Armored, but actual leg armor. Best current example of this is Clockword w/Pad.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Has anyone said 'Sky Raiders' yet? If so, I totally overlooked it.
Sky Raider Helmets remain some of the best designs out there for me. The original Half Helmets we got kinda fall flat of the mixture of style and simplicity the Sky Raider design has, and the post-CoV designs tend to go over the top and seem very busy (such as the Enforcer and Vanguard 'hats') or are very specific in style (Samurai, Valkyrie, Warrior designs). The Sky Raider design hits a very fertile middle ground, I'd think.
Also, Porter harnesses, but those probably fall into the same problematic area as all non-wing, non-cape back options.
Freakshow mesh tops. So much better than what players get.
That said, I'm of two minds on the whole thing. On the one hand, I'd love to get my hands on some of the concepts behind a lot of the NPC designs. On the other hand, I feel that NPCs should be able or allowed to retain their unique look to some extent. As a result, it might be better to make pieces inspired by NPC pieces which are not direct copies. A full-face porcelain mask that is not exactly the same as Carnie masks but very similar in appearance. A skull-styled mask that is close to the 5th column's Darth Vader look but not quite there. And so on.
Edit: I bet this will piss a lot of people off, but I'd also like to see more pieces as unlockables, tied to Badges. Any/all Badges, though getting a peculiar NPC item would of course be best linked to a Badge corresponding to that NPC.
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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You mean like Arachnos VEATs? I just dont see the griefing aspect. I mean without any work it is easy to spot a player - they have names above their heads where NPCs do not unless you click on them.|
Originally Posted by Noble Savage
Couple of considerations to keep in mind as you make your suggestions: we'd probably choose not to make a player version of an NPC costume part if it a) doesn't fit on the existing character rigs/work well with other parts, or if it's b) very, very signature and intimately tied to the group or character's look (like Maelstrom's 'heart' for example, which really should remain unique), or c), if it creates an opportunity for confusion and/or griefing (i.e. if by using the costume part, you could look EXACTLY like an enemy and therefore confuse other players).
Skull and Carnival masks are in the gray area for me, but most other parts are fair game for discussion. ------------- I think we're on the same page. From this thread, I'd like to generate a compact list of, say, 10-15 individual pieces (and maybe a full theme or two) for possible player use, just to get a conversation started. Griefing will happen regardless, but obviously it should be kept to a minimum. |
NPC costume parts for players have more than 1 use.
First, it can be fun from a thematic point of view to have your characters backstory tie to some existing group in the game. For flavor or just something different to do from 1-50. Having some of the pieces greatly reinforces the character story.
Second, some people want them just to creatively add to characters that already exist or inspire them next time they're in the character creator.
Third, with AE, creating custom members of an enemy group is not pretty without some of the easily identifiable pieces that make a certain enemy group look like they belong together. A Skulls boss without the mask looks rather out of place. The same could be said for creating a custom Carnie character and not having any of the costume pieces.
I guess, my 2 inf worth of opinion is that there is a lot of people who would love use these costume pieces. It is possible a couple people will pull something that could be considered griefing, but I believe it is more likely that players are more interested in being creative with these costume pieces. And those of us with current alts that have a back story rooted in existing factions will love them to death.
The problem I have is the pieces I actually want the most are pieces that don't fit in the current costume creator model.
Jumpsuits & Overalls (as worn by Zig prisoners and Dock workers)
Full skirts (as worn by Tsoo)
Robes (as worn by Circle of Thorns)
It would require changes to the costume creator UI (A 'Full Body' group?), and likely interact weirdly with the power animations. I understand that this is *highly* unlikely, but I figure if I put it here it might be put on the list as a stretch goal.
Any of the NPC back items.
I know the tech is a problem with this one, but honestly, I can't see anything costume-related that's more important or more needed. Given that back items have been at the top of the wish list for 6+ years, they should be made priority #1.
d
Any chance of us getting the Legacy Chain necklace, armour, or head dresses? I don't feel that they look too signature to the group, and these few pieces could easily be recoloured by a player to fit an entirely different theme altogether.
The rotating clockwork key on their backs! Just make it non-combinable with capes, because moving parts and free flowing fabric = no-no
Liberty
My 50s:
Hero: Armor Assassin (scrapper), Cross Dresser (scrapper), Surly Seaman (blaster), Defensive End (Tank), Rad Rhino (Cont)
Villain: Beast Infection (Corr), Sweet Zombie Jesus (MM), Milk Weasel (Stalker), Orgullo (MM), Agent Eris (Crab)