All Things Art: NPC Conversions


Abraxxus

 

Posted

"IF we decided to do that, what would be your top choices? Also, if given the choice, would you consider this a priority over, say, brand new costume sets, 'lost' costume pieces, and other alternatives?"

Top Choices:
- PPD Hardsuit set(s)
- Praetoria Police pieces/sets
Priority over *everything* for me

Other choices:
- Wyvern boots
- Kheldian sash

I agree about keeping signature items to NPCs only (Maelstrom's "heart") but disagree on the general view about NPC spoofing. Zombie's post said it all. This reason shouldn't be a hindrance to get applicable NPC pieces/sets to players. Take it as "players joining factions," like Arachnos. It should be possible to copy their exact looks, or most of it, to look like they're really part of them.

[EDIT]
Not sure if it applies to costume pieces, but NPCs have face textures and hair not available to players. For example, Romans have a very short hair that players don't get. (I can't get a picture right now, but will as soon as I can). They probably don't belong to factions, but it would be nice to have them available to players. After all, shared face textures and hair are not signature looks.


 

Posted

Tha lack of mentions for the Carnival bustiers, with or without the big bows, is an outrage.

I think variations on some of the stuff on Ghost Widow, Belladonna Vetrano and Sister Airlia would also be cool to have.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjooks View Post
Any of the NPC back items.

I know the tech is a problem with this one, but honestly, I can't see anything costume-related that's more important or more needed. Given that back items have been at the top of the wish list for 6+ years, they should be made priority #1.

d
Totally agree with this sentiment.

But I can't help but imagine how puzzled spectators from outside the veteran player base will be when, if ever, we finally get back items. The collective cheer and fanfare will likely lead one to believe that the Berlin wall just fell!

But yes, back items should be the a top priority in terms of costume related systems implementation. Should have been 3 years ago IMO.


 

Posted

1) Anything Mender
2) Anything Carnie
3) Anything Legacy Chain
4) The chest/arms/thighs rigs that the Sky Raiders wear (IIRC)
5) More Cimeroran stuff

And add another agreement to the "as close as we can get without being exact" to NPC looks - my SG on Justice is a Freedom Corps branch, and we've been complimented several times for resembling Longbow without being identical.

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aka
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post
Couple of considerations to keep in mind as you make your suggestions: we'd probably choose not to make a player version of an NPC costume part if it [...] b) very, very signature and intimately tied to the group or character's look (like Maelstrom's 'heart' for example, which really should remain unique), or c), if it creates an opportunity for confusion and/or griefing (i.e. if by using the costume part, you could look EXACTLY like an enemy and therefore confuse other players).
David,

How about making parts that are "inspired by" some of the more requested signature pieces, such as Maelstrom's "heart". Something different enough that the signature character stays unique, but allows for something of a similar concept/look for the player.

For example, taking the "jewel" chest detail, and adding the bio-lum glow tech, allows for Iron-man-esque chest power-sources, but is still distinctly different from Maelstrom's "heart". Similar approaches could be used for some faction pieces.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallowed View Post
David,

How about making parts that are "inspired by" some of the more requested signature pieces, such as Maelstrom's "heart". Something different enough that the signature character stays unique, but allows for something of a similar concept/look for the player.

For example, taking the "jewel" chest detail, and adding the bio-lum glow tech, allows for Iron-man-esque chest power-sources, but is still distinctly different from Maelstrom's "heart". Similar approaches could be used for some faction pieces.
Anything is possible, but at that point, it's a new piece and not a conversion.


David Nakayama, Lead Concept Artist
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Posted

Since you asked, while there are few things that would be interesting to have, I would rather resources be put into new pieces and making some of the older low rez pieces look new with NPC peices being done when possible.


 

Posted

My top 5:

1) Nemesis parts, notably the highly-detailed armor plates seen on Fake Nemeses, the distinctive cuirasses worn by human members, and the pickelhaubs (those hats with the spike on top) and other outlandish helmets. Having the "Gatling gun" used by Dragoons as an option for Assault Rifle users would be nice, too.

2) Carnival of Shadows parts, notably their masks and sashes. (If you do decide to implement Carnie face masks, might I suggest making Tsoo face masks available as well so the male model gets a comparable part at the same time?) The Carnie parts are hands-down the second-most-requested costume set I hear players discussing in game, right behind ...

3) Kheldian sashes, like the ones Moonfire and Sunstorm wear.

4) The shoulders and helmets used by the Legacy Chain.

5) The Menders' unique pieces. These are probably my number one request, simply because they're so distinctive.


"Bombarding the CoH/V fora with verbosity since January, 2006"

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hy-Beams View Post
Since you asked, while there are few things that would be interesting to have, I would rather resources be put into new pieces and making some of the older low rez pieces look new with NPC peices being done when possible.
Counterintuitive point is counterintuitive.
If they did higher-rez, new pieces for NPCs, AND made versions that could work for PCs at the same time (the easiest way to do it, I'd assume), then we'd be getting new shinies that we'd never had before anyway.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
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NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Savage View Post
Anything is possible, but at that point, it's a new piece and not a conversion.
With Ultra Mode a key part of the game, wouldn't any conversion need to be updated? I mean, most groups (as someone mentioned) still look pixelated and 6 years old. Why not take the idea and change it?

Instead of converting something that looks old, take one (1) costume piece from a certain group and make a "Ultra" version of it. Something that defines the signature group (5th Column, Freakshow, etc.) and make it an unlockable.

As much as I'd love to be able to look like any NPC in game, the NPC's (with Ultra mode) look a bit lackluster.

So, I propose a series of "Ultra Unlockables":

Ultra 5th Column Face Mask: awarded for defeating a 5th Column in a 5th Column Task Force (maybe attach to a 'Master of' Badge; since it's 'Ultra' after all)

Ultra Freakshow Chest Piece: awarded for defeating Freakshow

Ultra Rikti Head/Mask: awarded for defeating Rikti percentage in a Lady Grey Task Force (maybe attach to a 'Master of' Badge; since it's 'Ultra' after all)

See where I'm going? Yes, it would have to mean making new items, but in the longrun, you're still going to have to make new items anyway. Why not make new versions of things people have been craving? Leave the NPC's to their old, drab costumes. We're the stars of the show, correct? We should be the ones that the NPC's are jealous of!

:P


pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olantern View Post
My top 5:
3) Kheldian sashes, like the ones Moonfire and Sunstorm wear.

5) The Menders' unique pieces. These are probably my number one request, simply because they're so distinctive.
This.


"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander View Post
With Ultra Mode a key part of the game, wouldn't any conversion need to be updated? I mean, most groups (as someone mentioned) still look pixelated and 6 years old. Why not take the idea and change it?

Instead of converting something that looks old, take one (1) costume piece from a certain group and make a "Ultra" version of it. Something that defines the signature group (5th Column, Freakshow, etc.) and make it an unlockable.

As much as I'd love to be able to look like any NPC in game, the NPC's (with Ultra mode) look a bit lackluster.

So, I propose a series of "Ultra Unlockables":

Ultra 5th Column Face Mask: awarded for defeating a 5th Column in a 5th Column Task Force (maybe attach to a 'Master of' Badge; since it's 'Ultra' after all)

Ultra Freakshow Chest Piece: awarded for defeating Freakshow

Ultra Rikti Head/Mask: awarded for defeating Rikti percentage in a Lady Grey Task Force (maybe attach to a 'Master of' Badge; since it's 'Ultra' after all)

See where I'm going? Yes, it would have to mean making new items, but in the longrun, you're still going to have to make new items anyway. Why not make new versions of things people have been craving? Leave the NPC's to their old, drab costumes. We're the stars of the show, correct? We should be the ones that the NPC's are jealous of!

:P
NO!

Hell damn NO to locking costume pieces behind TFs and s*** like that, especially not Master of runs! Hell, the Epaulets being locked behind all the old, boring Phalanx TFs is bad enough, especially since Villains don't get access to them.

/Ultra Unsigned


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hy-Beams View Post
Since you asked, while there are few things that would be interesting to have, I would rather resources be put into new pieces and making some of the older low rez pieces look new with NPC peices being done when possible.
I don't think they focus on just the one thing at a time - like they'll be fixing the older costume parts as well as making new ones and converting NPC ones for players to use - these threads are more about finding out what would appeal the most to players so that they can focus on those first.
For example, there's a huge range of NPC cosutme parts to convert, but they can't do them all at once because they're working on other costume stuff too - so this thread has so far shown them that converting Carnie bustiers and Mender shoulder and thigh pads would seem to be more popular than converting, say, CoT mage hats and Council breastplates.


@Golden Girl

City of Heroes comics and artwork

 

Posted

ok dave, here ya go.

1. carnie parts, specifically the corsets, masks, thigh high boots, hairstyles of the master illusionists, and if we could get the patterns of the illusionist/master illusionist tops as a tight option, maybe have it also selectable on skirts that we do have, the sashes too. that would be amazing. I noted dave has reservations with carnie masks, no prob, something similar but unique for players would be just as good, just some sort of cool porcelain mask with some sort of classical looking design on it and i'm golden. heck, kabuki masks would probably serve the same purpose for some here, but thats kind of outside of this particular thread

2. tsoo sorcerer pants, love the pattern, seperate the legs if you need, like a pair of hakama.

3. kheld sashes. you probably know this one, people have been begging for them since they appeared.

4. legacy chain necklaces- i have been asking for a set of necklaces for a long time. these, and vanessa's cameo would really be great, maybe in either detail 2 or shoulders? im good for either.

5. anything you can get from the ppd hardsuits would rock, i can understand massive clipping concerns, but what you can do, especially those cool one-eyed helmets, would make my powersuited characters sing.

6. here's an out there one, but since we now have a "skinny trunk" with the clockwork one, could we get rikti body parts? might be a bridge too far, but had to ask.

7. oh, one more long-shot one, but remember the monster head fuss we had a time ago, the minotaurs have pretty nice monster heads, and a few people wanted bull heads on their 3-part short list. the model is different, so i realize that feasibility may be an issue, but just throwing that out there.


thats all i can think of for now, right now my main priority would be carnie stuff, they are the most striking and i have concepts that would be ready at launch if we got them, oh and could we get the mask for men too?

oh and i noticed dave's question about priority, this above other stuff..that is really a ticky question to answer, we dont know exactly what else would be coming down the pike, but I will make a stand that maybe if all of the require the same amount of work, then yeah the npc pieces have been around the longest and have had people asking for them for a very long time, so my personal take is that the request has seniority on new stuff or lost stuff. now if doing this will take significantly longer and would prevent anything else from coming out, then my inner pragmatist says go with the most reasonable idea first. but in an ideal world where i actually had a informed opinion about the amount of resources and planning schedules went on at paragon and everything took roughly equal amounts of time, i'd probably give these the priority.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
NO!

Hell damn NO to locking costume pieces behind TFs and s*** like that, especially not Master of runs! Hell, the Epaulets being locked behind all the old, boring Phalanx TFs is bad enough, especially since Villains don't get access to them.

/Ultra Unsigned
So, rather than take an idea and change it to your own liking, you'd rather flush it down the toilet? Forget the "Master of" runs. You mean to tell me you'd rather have a 6 year old costume piece than an new "Ultra Mode" version of it?

All I gave were examples of ways to obtain it. To me, it doesn't matter how to obtain it. Would I pay $10 for just a Ultra Mode Rikti Mask? Yep. I'd rather earn it as an unlockable, ingame, no matter the stipulations to earning it. Just having the option of having new models is my real suggestion.

I can see where the Devs would rather put out new items, rather than rehash old stuff. There is always a point they have to stop something, no matter how needed it is, and move onto something new and fresh. So, why not just take some old ideas, remodel them, and sell them as something new? Nike and Reebok do the same thing everyday and make a killing at it.


pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:

 

Posted

the glowing chest sigla, shoulder/neck pieces, gloves, loin cloth and boots of the Pantheon Lts. (and eventually... variants of each)

Wyvern pieces (helm, gloves, quiver strap (even if quiver is not included) and banded pants)

Mirror Spirit's gown style and hair-dress

Void Hunter tights and 'shoulder' (upper arm straps) - may have to be presented as Void Hunter upper body tights

Vahzilok Apron

Shivan Skin (tintable)

Tsoo Sorcerer skirt and hat

Rularuu Brute loin cloth

Sky Raider's harnessed uniform and Jump Bot pieces

Malta harness

Luddite tunic

Lost chest and shoulder pieces; Pariah heads; Prelate hanging hoods and feet

Legacy Chain shoulders

KOA harnessed tops, pants and boots

Ghoul-cuffs

Freakshow hair and Swiper claws

Crey aprons and Ciysis Unit shoulder pieces

Coralax heads

CoT Mage robes (as a top and a bottom)

Cimerorian hand and boot wraps; Minotaur harness, belt and loin cloth; Cyclops kilt and cuffs (which are almost the same as Ghoul-cuffs)

Female Carnie chest piece, Master Illusionist hair and gown top (sans lower dress portion); Ringmistress bra, gloves, sarong and thigh highs; Vaness Devore hair

Cabal tattered skirt


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
NO!

Hell damn NO to locking costume pieces behind TFs and s*** like that, especially not Master of runs! Hell, the Epaulets being locked behind all the old, boring Phalanx TFs is bad enough, especially since Villains don't get access to them.

/Ultra Unsigned
Release some as Defeat Badge unlockables, arc rewards, Accolade rewards, recipes, shop items through specific contacts or any combination of the above. Please just don't hand it all over to us for absolutely nothing (and I don't mean cash). IMO, there needs to be more shinies to work for in the game.


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander View Post
So, rather than take an idea and change it to your own liking, you'd rather flush it down the toilet? Forget the "Master of" runs. You mean to tell me you'd rather have a 6 year old costume piece than an new "Ultra Mode" version of it?

All I gave were examples of ways to obtain it. To me, it doesn't matter how to obtain it. Would I pay $10 for just a Ultra Mode Rikti Mask? Yep. I'd rather earn it as an unlockable, ingame, no matter the stipulations to earning it. Just having the option of having new models is my real suggestion.

I can see where the Devs would rather put out new items, rather than rehash old stuff. There is always a point they have to stop something, no matter how needed it is, and move onto something new and fresh. So, why not just take some old ideas, remodel them, and sell them as something new? Nike and Reebok do the same thing everyday and make a killing at it.
I...tht....b-

I don't actually posses enough facepalm for that comment!
Does the idea of 'costume parts for free' have any merit? No? Revamping old parts that are looking pixelated and six-years old to Praetoria sort of standards, and giving the players useable variants at the same time! I'd rather have a revamped piece without and added, stupid string attached to it!

The Rikti, frankly, don't need re-doing. Thats the sort of standard that everything else needs to be brought up to. End of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
No mention of the Lost TV set helmets?
Almost put that in but spaced it out... along the same lines as the Pumpkin Head piece, perhaps?


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare View Post
Release some as Defeat Badge unlockables, arc rewards, Accolade rewards, recipes, shop items through specific contacts or any combination of the above. Please just don't hand it all over to us for absolutely nothing (and I don't mean cash). IMO, there needs to be more shinies to work for in the game.
There already are. Their called IOs and HamiOs. Purples and PvP IOs.
Costumes are the one thing that should never be classed as 'high end' rewards. Doing the ITF for Roman armour? That makes sense. You get a full set of costume parts for doing a thematic, tied in TF.

Doing a MoLGTF for one costume part? No. Just no. Having to pay stupid ammounts of Vanguard merits for the VG armour is bad enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
There already are. Their called IOs and HamiOs. Purples and PvP IOs.
Costumes are the one thing that should never be classed as 'high end' rewards. Doing the ITF for Roman armour? That makes sense. You get a full set of costume parts for doing a thematic, tied in TF.

Doing a MoLGTF for one costume part? No. Just no. Having to pay stupid ammounts of Vanguard merits for the VG armour is bad enough.
Don't get caught up on how to obtain it. First, let's get them to agree to making new bits and pieces. Rather than call off the war before the first battle starts, let them see that the main point is that we want more items, regardless.

Now they know we want more, and are asking "what" we'd like to have. Don't flush the toilet because of speculated ways to earn the items. Lets get them to agree on having the items in the first place.

(Note: when I mentioned "Rikti head/Mask" I'm not referring to a selectable hat or accessory item. I'd like to actually get a Rikti Head model that's unlockable. I'd like to have it as a Monsterous head and have some secondary accessories, like mouth guard or full helmet. Not just a simple mask from the pulldown menu.)


pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
There already are. Their called IOs and HamiOs. Purples and PvP IOs.
Costumes are the one thing that should never be classed as 'high end' rewards. Doing the ITF for Roman armour? That makes sense. You get a full set of costume parts for doing a thematic, tied in TF.

Doing a MoLGTF for one costume part? No. Just no. Having to pay stupid ammounts of Vanguard merits for the VG armour is bad enough.
I didn't say anything about high end rewards; doing a TF for a costume set sucks; including the ITF. And no matter how you color it, enhancements are enhancements are enhancements; the four things you listed, all one and the same to me... a grind for slot fillers; meh.

What I'm suggesting is normal course of play rewards that anyone can attain; solo or team... with multiple ways to earn them.

Am I saying that all costume pieces should be released this way? Of course not but there's nothing wrong with mixing it up a little (short of charging $10 per set). And there's nothing wrong with not getting everything handed to a player on a silver platter. (I would even contend that the 'strings attached' to the Vanguard pieces are pushing it.)


Apparently, I play "City of Shakespeare"
*Arc #95278-Gathering the Four Winds -3 step arc; challenging - 5 Ratings/3 Stars (still working out the kinks)
*Arc #177826-Lights, Camera, Scream! - 3 step arc, camp horror; try out in 1st person POV - 35 Ratings/4 Stars

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander View Post
Don't get caught up on how to obtain it. First, let's get them to agree to making new bits and pieces. Rather than call off the war before the first battle starts, let them see that the main point is that we want more items, regardless.

Now they know we want more, and are asking "what" we'd like to have. Don't flush the toilet because of speculated ways to earn the items. Lets get them to agree on having the items in the first place.

(Note: when I mentioned "Rikti head/Mask" I'm not referring to a selectable hat or accessory item. I'd like to actually get a Rikti Head model that's unlockable. I'd like to have it as a Monsterous head and have some secondary accessories, like mouth guard or full helmet. Not just a simple mask from the pulldown menu.)
...
David's pretty much agreed to doing new pieces anyway. He certainly seems to want to.
I don't think you make as much sense as you seem to think you thunk you do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.