The Flipper: Hero of the Markets
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2010-09-25 10:53 in The Market and Inventions
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Nope. We're all evil.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The flipper PAID more than anyone else was willing to for the flippable item.
The flipper then LISTED it for less than anyone else was willing to. These indisputable facts undermine all character assassinations aimed at the kindly, helpful flipper. The flipper provides a twofold good- paying sellers the highest price going and listing for the lowest price available. Truly, the Flipper is a Hero of the Markets. |
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Evil red dolphins running around causing much woe to the masses
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Agreed. The devs should add a huge bronze statue outside of all markets dedicated to all of us hardworking market heroes!
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Truly, the Flipper is a Hero of the Markets.
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Preferably based on the proletariat icon in my new sig!
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Agreed. The devs should add a huge bronze statue outside of all markets dedicated to all of us hardworking market heroes!
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Two comments:|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The flipper PAID more than anyone else was willing to for the flippable item.
The flipper then LISTED it for less than anyone else was willing to. These indisputable facts undermine all character assassinations aimed at the kindly, helpful flipper. |
1) As far as I know, most of them aren't doing it to be helpful.
2) Despite the first two statements being accurate, you just KNOW that the clueless are reading your post and thinking that you're mocking them.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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As for 1, that's the beauty of the profit motive. It aligns the interests of the profiteer with those of both the buyers and the sellers. Despite not *wanting* to be helpful, they are.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Two comments:
1) As far as I know, most of them aren't doing it to be helpful. 2) Despite the first two statements being accurate, you just KNOW that the clueless are reading your post and thinking that you're mocking them. |
As for 2, um, knowing Goat? No comment.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
About that new sig Goat...
Communism + marketeering = ??? 
PROFiiiwaaittaminute... that's not right...
This post makes me feel bad about NOT flipping. I do think flipping is stabilizing and helpful market activity. I just don't find it fun the way I do crafting.
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say what you like about the commies, they had fantastic graphic design!
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
About that new sig Goat...
Communism + marketeering = ??? |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Win.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
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China?
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
Communism + marketeering = ??? |
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Didn't the fascists have better uniforms and engineering though?
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
say what you like about the commies, they had fantastic graphic design!
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Yeah, and their trains kept better time
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Didn't the fascists have better uniforms and engineering though?
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It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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they were definitely snappier dressers.
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Didn't the fascists have better uniforms and engineering though?
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
?
Flippers causing me to pay more than I would have or wait longer to get the item is a benefit? Never going to understand that one.
Thanks?
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oh well, facts are facts.|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
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Never going to understand that one. |
to elucidate:
the flipper PAID MORE than you were willing to pay, which is a benefit to the seller.
and the flipper LISTED FOR LESS than anyone else was willing to list, which is a benefit to the buyer.
The flipper also maintains steady supply, which is a valuable service to all.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I am paying more due to a flipper. Not seeing the benefit. Maybe it's there and I just can't see it.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
oh well, facts are facts.
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No flipper, the item sells for less to me or without having to wait for the real price. Is that inaccurate?
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The seller of the item you desire disagrees with you.|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
I am paying more due to a flipper. Not seeing the benefit.
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| No flipper, the item sells for less to me or without having to wait for the real price. Is that inaccurate? |
Reader's Digest, you're assuming you'll be able to buy at the bottom of the range at all times, which is not necessarily the case (especially with junk other players actually want).
Supply is not static and without stabilizing forces prices are subject to unpredictable spikes. Presuming supply will always be there when you want it at the price you expect to pay is Utopian logic.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
The Flipper doesnt maintain steady supply. The people that get the recipes and put them on the market, maintain the supply. All the flipper is doing, is crafting and making money. Things that anyone can do, but are too lazy to. (myself included) Ill pay 20mil instead of 10mil just to avoid having to buy salvage, run to base to find out 1 recipe had the same piece as another and back to the market, lol.
Jeet, you dont have to pay more. Buy the recipes and not the crafted. Youll save a ton. If you dont believe me, look at some recipes that you want compared to the crafted forms. Most of the time, it's 50% less or more. Is the markup redidculous? Most of the time, yes. But if you don't like it, buy the recipes.
Eryq2, we've pointed this out repeatedly: By keeping bid offers up, the flipper makes more things go on the market to begin with, that would otherwise have been vendored. This is not only measureable, it's measured. We've done the experiment.
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You are utterly wrong.|
Originally Posted by eryq2
The Flipper doesnt maintain steady supply.
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With salvage specifically, they demonstrably increase supply in two ways- first, recirculating salvage that would otherwise be destroyed via crafting or vendoring.
Second, by raising the price floor and making it worthwhile for players to sell instead of delete.
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| The people that get the recipes and put them on the market, maintain the supply. |
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| All the flipper is doing, is crafting and making money. |
But hey, way to bring your brand of penetrating insight and deep knowledge to the thread!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Cool. I'm a hero for flipping! \o/
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No, you're paying less. Or, alternatively, you're paying rather than not paying because there aren't any.|
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo
I am paying more due to a flipper.
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| Not seeing the benefit. Maybe it's there and I just can't see it. |
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| No flipper, the item sells for less to me or without having to wait for the real price. Is that inaccurate? |
If you take an item which sells for wildly fluctuating prices, and sometimes there's no supply within a factor of ten of the "normal" price, and add a couple of flippers who do nothing at all but place tons of bids at lowish prices, and list at highish prices, within a couple of weeks the item has a stable supply at a price somewhere between the low and high end of the previous range.
That this should happen is pretty much obvious.
Most salvage, if I'm gonna sell it, I'm gonna sell it by listing at 1inf and not even looking. But wait! Most of the time, I get under 1k inf. Or even under 250. Which means I'd be better off vendoring... So a vendoring I go.
Now, what happens if that flipper is there, consistently bidding more than the vendor will pay me? Why, I always sell the item at the marketplace, because I'm guaranteed to get at least that good a price -- better if anyone's bidding at higher values.
Meaning more of the item in question go on the market to begin with.
Seriously, this is very basic economics. Flippers, in general, stabilize prices by driving the high end down and the low end up. They make it easier to buy things for predictable prices. Now, those prices may not be as low as you'd like -- but in the absence of a flipper, either you'd be paying more or you'd be waiting a longer time for your bids to fill. Or both.
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Well...I'm not expecting miracles, just the natural price from supply and demand. I still don't get your assertion that the supply comes from flippers. Seems to me it would be there without them...just cheaper.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Supply is not static and without stabilizing forces prices are subject to unpredictable spikes. Presuming supply will always be there when you want it at the price you expect to pay is Utopian logic.
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Originally Posted by eryq2
The Flipper doesnt maintain steady supply. The people that get the recipes and put them on the market, maintain the supply. All the flipper is doing, is crafting and making money. Things that anyone can do, but are too lazy to. (myself included) Ill pay 20mil instead of 10mil just to avoid having to buy salvage, run to base to find out 1 recipe had the same piece as another and back to the market, lol.
Jeet, you dont have to pay more. Buy the recipes and not the crafted. Youll save a ton. If you dont believe me, look at some recipes that you want compared to the crafted forms. Most of the time, it's 50% less or more. Is the markup redidculous? Most of the time, yes. But if you don't like it, buy the recipes. |
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Ok...I can buy some of that. Were flippers making Nevermelting Ice worth selling recently?|
Originally Posted by seebs
Completely inaccurate. Again, we are not talking about speculation or guesswork; the experiment has been tried, and we have seen the results.
If you take an item which sells for wildly fluctuating prices, and sometimes there's no supply within a factor of ten of the "normal" price, and add a couple of flippers who do nothing at all but place tons of bids at lowish prices, and list at highish prices, within a couple of weeks the item has a stable supply at a price somewhere between the low and high end of the previous range. That this should happen is pretty much obvious. Most salvage, if I'm gonna sell it, I'm gonna sell it by listing at 1inf and not even looking. But wait! Most of the time, I get under 1k inf. Or even under 250. Which means I'd be better off vendoring... So a vendoring I go. Now, what happens if that flipper is there, consistently bidding more than the vendor will pay me? Why, I always sell the item at the marketplace, because I'm guaranteed to get at least that good a price -- better if anyone's bidding at higher values. Meaning more of the item in question go on the market to begin with. Seriously, this is very basic economics. Flippers, in general, stabilize prices by driving the high end down and the low end up. They make it easier to buy things for predictable prices. Now, those prices may not be as low as you'd like -- but in the absence of a flipper, either you'd be paying more or you'd be waiting a longer time for your bids to fill. Or both. |
It's the higher end stuff that I would rather the flippers stay away from. Salvage is no problem for me. Seeing a purple recipe skyrocket over a couple hours from 25 million to 200 million doesn't endear them to me.
The flipper PAID more than anyone else was willing to for the flippable item.
The flipper then LISTED it for less than anyone else was willing to.
These indisputable facts undermine all character assassinations aimed at the kindly, helpful flipper.
The flipper provides a twofold good- paying sellers the highest price going and listing for the lowest price available.
Truly, the Flipper is a Hero of the Markets.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone