City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

The Flipper: Hero of the Markets

Another_Fan

By Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2010-09-25 10:53 in The Market and Inventions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
the comedic prospect of AF lecturing on IRL finance is ALMOST enticement enough to take him off ignore....
I can get higher quality stupidity elsewhere. He's inept, but he's not actually saying enough interesting stuff to be funny. I mean, come on. I've actually been harassed by real Usenet kooks. This guy's barely even cranky.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
erm, I'm not going to bother telling you where and how often you are wrong. Send me a PM and I'll be happy to work you past your random samplings of Investopedia.com

hint: you are wrong a lot. Both in frequency and amount. Seriously, send me a PM and I think I can help you understand some things.
Nahh when I get a seminar from an investment guru it usually comes with a buffet, and a pitch for a bad investment.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
the comedic prospect of AF lecturing on IRL finance is ALMOST enticement enough to take him off ignore....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
basically everything I know about economies I learned by messing around with this market- before I got interested in the CoH economy I hadn't paid attention to or given any thought to how such things functioned on a macro scale.
Almost as comical as contrasting these statements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seebs View Post
I can get higher quality stupidity elsewhere. He's inept, but he's not actually saying enough interesting stuff to be funny. I mean, come on. I've actually been harassed by real Usenet kooks. This guy's barely even cranky.
I have no difficulty believing, that you can find stupidity easily.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Nahh when I get a seminar from an investment guru it usually comes with a buffet, and a pitch for a bad investment.
That's cool. You can believe whatever you want. Just don't expect that what you believe is correct.

If this were a post on treating GIST cancer, I would expect that your response would be something like:

"But the ulna is connected to the femur, and the meosis contradicts the mitosis, so therefore glandular issues should be the primary issue."

I understand now why many people have you on ignore. I'll stop trying to educate you now. It's a little sad, but hey, ignorance is bliss.

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
That's cool. You can believe whatever you want. Just don't expect that what you believe is correct.

If this were a post on treating GIST cancer, I would expect that your response would be something like:

"But the ulna is connected to the femur, and the meosis contradicts the mitosis, so therefore glandular issues should be the primary issue."

I understand now why many people have you on ignore. I'll stop trying to educate you now. It's a little sad, but hey, ignorance is bliss.

And I would expect you to profess equal knowledge of oncology, and boil down a 102 page report on a patients condition to two sentences that support your position. When disputed complain "Pasteur couldn't talk about germ theory on the internet"

 

Posted

I, on the other hand, would simply attempt to post a picture mostly unrelated to the topic.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
And I would expect you to profess equal knowledge of oncology, and boil down a 102 page report on a patients condition to two sentences that support your position.
Hahaha. I haven't shown any tendency towards this in the past on these forums, but feel free to make stuff up. As is your right.

Judge me all you want. You can probably make a better latte than I can. You can probably juggle better than I can. I'm sure that you mop better than I do. (I'm an awful mopper).

But please, for all that's holy to you, don't pretend you know something you don't. Picking random things from the interweb does not make you an expert.

http://xkcd.com/386/

best of luck to you with your rants!

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork View Post
I, on the other hand, would simply attempt to post a picture mostly unrelated to the topic.
Are you trying to diffuse an interweb feud?

I must say, oooh, that's a nice cane.

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

Well the other option was to sell popcorn, but an evil flipper cornered the market on artificial butter flavoring.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork View Post
I, on the other hand, would simply attempt to post a picture mostly unrelated to the topic.
It is NOT Lupus!

(couldn't help myself, as you were...)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
And I would expect you to profess equal knowledge of oncology, and boil down a 102 page report on a patients condition to two sentences that support your position. When disputed complain "Pasteur couldn't talk about germ theory on the internet"
Claim:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
Hahaha. I haven't shown any tendency towards this in the past on these forums, but feel free to make stuff up. As is your right.

Judge me all you want. You can probably make a better latte than I can. You can probably juggle better than I can. I'm sure that you mop better than I do. (I'm an awful mopper).

But please, for all that's holy to you, don't pretend you know something you don't. Picking random things from the interweb does not make you an expert.

http://xkcd.com/386/

best of luck to you with your rants!
Apparently I have a better memory than you as well.

Example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
No no, not at all. I'm just trying to explain that, in real life, market makers provide stability. When they stop participating, things go badly. And I can explain briefly what happened and why in the Flash Crash, but if you don't know or care, I can't convince you otherwise. It had nothing to do with a bear raid.

Of course, flipping ice in this game isn't the same as market making.

Stephen Hawkings himself can't convince someone that the Earth goes around the sun on an internet forum!
And really setting yourself as an authority of as comparable stature as Stephen Hawking has in Astronomy, in finance when you didn't get the concept of the capital gains tax ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
Ok, trying really hard not to be a jerk. Yes, I know that. You know that. EVERYONE knows that. Still trying not to be a jerk, but you are making it really hard...

Next, where do you live in real life that ST cap gains tax is less than 10%? Is there housing and high speed internet access available?
Or that it is only paid on profits ?

 

Posted

Hahaha, you win!!! You are better and smarter than everyone on the interwebz! (There is even no such thing as the Interwebz! It is a hybrid form of the Internet and the World Wide Web and a crazy Z for fun!).

Oops, rather you are better and smarter than I am. Gratz!

p.s. the Earth really does go around the Sun. But you'll have to verify that yourself.

And if you can make me a latte, that would be super.

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
Hahaha, you win!!! You are better and smarter than everyone on the interwebz! (There is even no such thing as the Interwebz! It is a hybrid form of the Internet and the World Wide Web and a crazy Z for fun!).

Oops, rather you are better and smarter than I am. Gratz!

p.s. the Earth really does go around the Sun. But you'll have to verify that yourself.

And if you can make me a latte, that would be super.
Does this line actually work for you in real life ? I mean the whole "Do you know who I am" shtick , you are trying so hard at ?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Does this line actually work for you in real life ? I mean the whole "Do you know who I am" shtick , you are trying so hard at ?
I'm wondering if you're as snarky in real life when people point out to you that you're wrong. People with a good self-esteem can accept they're wrong if it's pointed out. Take that as you will.

- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSorrow View Post
I'm wondering if you're as snarky in real life when people point out to you that you're wrong. People with a good self-esteem can accept they're wrong if it's pointed out. Take that as you will.
LOL but when you are right and someone is being snarky to you, its so much fun.

Unlike the other poster in this exhange, I laid out what I gathered from actually reading the report, for anyone to judge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan View Post
Its pretty clear what happened in the flash crash, you had a low latency trader that managed to set off an exponential price decay in the shares of the 500 largest companies in the U.S. economy. The market makers decided it was better to get out of the way, and let the fall hit stop loss orders.

The question is was it deliberate on the part of the people that started it ? Well you are planning to sell a large volume of X anything you can either have your strategy to sell less as your sales cause price declines or you can sell more as the price declines. You don't have to be Milton Friedman or Adam Smith to figure out the effect of either strategy.

When you program your strategy into the financial equivalent of a BOLO and allow it to act as your agent executing trades with times measured in mili seconds, it can very easily wreak havoc.

You can go back to the use of Super Dot and the crash of 87 to see the problems that this can and does cause.

vs

Quote:
Analysts criticized the SEC and CFTC for taking five months to issue a diagnosis of why the market went haywire without also including how to fix it. The report detailed the fallout — loss of liquidity, a computer-driven domino selling effect, massive mispricing of stocks — caused by a large sell trade of futures contracts that mimic trading in the S&P 500 index. The trade was executed "extremely rapidly," using a computer algorithm. "I'm not sure this report does much to placate investors," says Larry Tabb, CEO of Tabb Group.
from http://www.usatoday.com/money/market...ash04_ST_N.htm

And just to continue the snarkfest maybe Yomo can get Mr. Tabb to make him coffee and I have no doubt Yomo takes flack for his mopping

Just in case you aren't familiar with the corresponding terms in red. S&P 500 = The stock index composed of the 500 largest publicly traded companies in the us. Financial equivalent of a BOLO (robotic tank) =computer algorithm. Domino effect = selling hitting stop loss points when other sells went into effect (stops). Superdot was the electronic order entry system in place at the NYSE during the crash of 87

Edit: Just a note the usa today article came out a t-4 hours as I write this

 

Posted

my level 2 marketeer The Heroic Flipper earned 3 million last week from selling his tutorial inspirations and using his three slots to flip uncommons.

Wheeee!

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
flipping salvage is a great tool for learning about market forces, but it's a horrendously inefficient way to build a fortune. Not saying it can't be done, but it would take a lot more work and a lot more time than many other strategies.

It's like crafting commons- sure theres inf to be made, but it's more of a community service to the playerbase than an eeebil scheme to fill up your swimming pool with doubloons.
You have to start somewhere, man.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger View Post
You have to start somewhere, man.

I am not ashamed to admit, I started by flipping Spirit Thorns....buying at less than 100 inf, selling at 250+.....and vendoring at least 3 stacks in 5. Then I moved on to vulturing level 45 Common IO recipes....then flipping rare salvage...then memorizing and crafting level 35 Commons....

Now Im a full fledged Marketophile or Flipologist or whatever..but I always look back at Spirit Thorns with a certain fondness.

--Frog

 

Posted

my first humble step on the market was vendoring rare recipes for the kingly sum of 10k each...I couldn't believe it!

If I'd known at the time you could vendor level 50 generics for 100k my head might have exploded.

The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.

My City Was Gone

 

Posted

I think my first step was buying high level SOs and vendoring them.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethergoat View Post
the comedic prospect of AF lecturing on IRL finance is ALMOST enticement enough to take him off ignore....
On the unintentional humor scale, where a 1 is:

You typed "Your" when you meant "You're"

and a 10 is:

"I'm going to kill two people in cold blood, then spend the rest of my life trying to find the real killers, mostly on the golf course and in Las Vegas"

He ranks 5-ish. Not worth clicking a button, in my opinion.

Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata View Post
On the unintentional humor scale, where a 1 is:

You typed "Your" when you meant "You're"

and a 10 is:

"I'm going to kill two people in cold blood, then spend the rest of my life trying to find the real killers, mostly on the golf course and in Las Vegas"

He ranks 5-ish. Not worth clicking a button, in my opinion.
Da bum pish,

I am here evenings two shows till thursday gentlepeople, remember to tip Yomo.

Edit: In a WC fields voice, That's at you son not with you

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator View Post
I think my first step was buying high level SOs and vendoring them.
I started by crafting Scirocco's triples for profit back before we had Obliteration.

- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSorrow View Post
I started by crafting Scirocco's triples for profit back before we had Obliteration.
I started by crafting endurance mod lvl 25 & 30 - every morning I'd wake up and craft, set salvage orders, and go to work. Sell 'em overnight.

Then one day, I flipped 3 (3!!!) Deific Weapons, at $500K a pop. I was like, hells yeah, this is where the BIG money is at.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad_Avenger View Post
I started by crafting endurance mod lvl 25 & 30 - every morning I'd wake up and craft, set salvage orders, and go to work. Sell 'em overnight.

Then one day, I flipped 3 (3!!!) Deific Weapons, at $500K a pop. I was like, hells yeah, this is where the BIG money is at.
Almost my story as well. I would wander over to the old market forums occasionally, tho I wasn't a marketeer myself, because of the drama. I read Fulmens talk about level 35 endmod IOs a couple times so I decided to give marketting them a try. Got my recipe memorized and started crafting them. Made some decent money. The niche was periodically unprofitable, likely because of competition and badging, so I learned my first lesson about being mobile and expanded my operations to level 40 endmod and level 35 and 40 heals and recharge redux. Then, one day I had this epiphany: I'm paying a lot for these pieces of salvage, but I see they occasionally go for a lot less. I'll put in lowball bids and wait for them to fill overnight! Genius! Lesson number 2 learned.

It eventually dawned on me that I could utilize those price differences on orange salvage to make "huge" profits.