The Flipper: Hero of the Markets
By
Another_Fan,
Posted on: 2010-09-25 10:53 in The Market and Inventions
I am still completely confused why anyone even gives a **** about salvage. I really am. If it hurts you this much to purchase it from the market... don't buy it there. *boggle*
Go to AE and roll some up. Use your merits and roll some up. Or *gasp* go play the game and get some for free. You have choices here people. Yet, you treat this like the market is the only way to get salvage. Its not. It is the most convenient, and therefore *gasp* you pay more.
Are you the kind of people who go to the local convenience store and ***** out the clerk for the price of their milk / bread / whatever because it costs more than the grocery store?
If you are petitioning for the rights of the poor in a video game, you've got some serious issues that need to be addressed. Its a game. Its not real life and it most definitely not the store or the stock market or anything else that's "real". Its a game.
Most of the people screaming "murder" claim they have money. If you're here to petition for some imaginary person who may or may not have enough money, instead of ******** about it here, why not do something about it? Have you gone out and farmed salvage to increase supply and drive down demand? Have you gone out and identified markets that are being flipped and outbid the flipper by one, turning around and listing yours for 0 profit (Have you flipped the flipper?) Have you offered people a way to make more money in this game? Have you shown them how to save money in this game?
Well?
Doesn't anyone find it odd that the people you are so eager to crucify are the same ones freely giving out advice on how to save money and how to make money, while most of the complainers do nothing of the sort?
If you like, here is an excerpt from my "Keep your Shirt Guide" which outlines why bid creeping salvage is a worthless waste of time:
*LINK*
Salvage is such a small portion of your actual cost of any build that in the end, it really does you no good to even worry about it a little. Why step over a $5 bill to pick up a penny?
Once again, it confuses me to absolutely no end that people get SO up in arms over salvage. It is by far the most worthless thing in this game. Yet people storm in here all huff-and-puff like salvage prices are what drive the economy. They demand the Devs "fix" the system and prevent flippers for "exploiting" the casual players.
Who are these casual players that are being exploited?
Who's out there saying "damn, I wish I didn't have to save up for that Al Silver I need". If this guy exists, how on earth is he going to manage paying the crafting cost? Is there really people out there who are determined to use crafted IOs that have 0 inf to their name? Why aren't these people using SOs? Those are fixed price and have no wait times involved at all. Why are they sitting at the market pondering the price of salvage instead of going out and playing the game?
And why, oh please tell me why, anyone deserves to get exactly what they want, the moment they want it. "I want a house! Someone go build me a house for $5,000 because that's all I can afford! Do it NOW! Kgo! - Oh, and make sure it has 6 bedrooms and a pool! I'm not taking any low end piece of crap! My $ is worth the same as your $!!"
Quote:
Flipping salvage is awesome money! You can make a billion in a week! True story! I posted how to do it earlier in this thread. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
No but you just came on the boards and tried to tell people how appreciative they should be for your attempts to enrich yourself.
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*roll eyes*
It may be wishfull thinking, but I read that as Beer Raid.
Alot of the people in this very thread do more educating how to make influence than bragging that they swindled old Mrs Templeton out of her pension cheque.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
I am still completely confused why anyone even gives a **** about salvage. I really am. If it hurts you this much to purchase it from the market... don't buy it there. *boggle*
Go to AE and roll some up. Use your merits and roll some up. Or *gasp* go play the game and get some for free. You have choices here people. Yet, you treat this like the market is the only way to get salvage. Its not. It is the most convenient, and therefore *gasp* you pay more. Are you the kind of people who go to the local convenience store and ***** out the clerk for the price of their milk / bread / whatever because it costs more than the grocery store? If you are petitioning for the rights of the poor in a video game, you've got some serious issues that need to be addressed. Its a game. Its not real life and it most definitely not the store or the stock market or anything else that's "real". Its a game. |
I'm here for the entertainment value. That and to try and figure out who Nethergoat had in mind as the target of his joke. The people that hate flippers or the flippers ? Currently, I think its both.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
Flipping salvage is awesome money! You can make a billion in a week! True story! I posted how to do it earlier in this thread.
*roll eyes* |
You need to read that in context. Yomo was saying his job was that of market maker or specialist firm, or day trader ? It gets really hard to tell with such a broad claim. Then he implied that there weren't enough people doing his job. What happened was the people doing the job decided it would be most advantageous for them to do it at a more profitable level, or they looked at where things were going and decided to play the momentum.
The other way to read it was he was upset, that I said " someone with a large sum of money decided to rock the market and succeeded", and that's what he does for a living
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I want the twirl mustache emote. I'd also like a tied to the train tracks emote for NPCS. Maybe a paragon orphanage that players can foreclose on.
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Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
It may be wishfull thinking, but I read that as Beer Raid.
Alot of the people in this very thread do more educating how to make influence than bragging that they swindled old Mrs Templeton out of her pension cheque. |
Quote:
I know how you can start saving at least $15. a month to go towards you a home.....
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
I am still completely confused why anyone even gives a **** about salvage. I really am. If it hurts you this much to purchase it from the market... don't buy it there. *boggle*
Go to AE and roll some up. Use your merits and roll some up. Or *gasp* go play the game and get some for free. You have choices here people. Yet, you treat this like the market is the only way to get salvage. Its not. It is the most convenient, and therefore *gasp* you pay more. Are you the kind of people who go to the local convenience store and ***** out the clerk for the price of their milk / bread / whatever because it costs more than the grocery store? If you are petitioning for the rights of the poor in a video game, you've got some serious issues that need to be addressed. Its a game. Its not real life and it most definitely not the store or the stock market or anything else that's "real". Its a game. Most of the people screaming "murder" claim they have money. If you're here to petition for some imaginary person who may or may not have enough money, instead of ******** about it here, why not do something about it? Have you gone out and farmed salvage to increase supply and drive down demand? Have you gone out and identified markets that are being flipped and outbid the flipper by one, turning around and listing yours for 0 profit (Have you flipped the flipper?) Have you offered people a way to make more money in this game? Have you shown them how to save money in this game? Well? Doesn't anyone find it odd that the people you are so eager to crucify are the same ones freely giving out advice on how to save money and how to make money, while most of the complainers do nothing of the sort? If you like, here is an excerpt from my "Keep your Shirt Guide" which outlines why bid creeping salvage is a worthless waste of time: *LINK* Salvage is such a small portion of your actual cost of any build that in the end, it really does you no good to even worry about it a little. Why step over a $5 bill to pick up a penny? Once again, it confuses me to absolutely no end that people get SO up in arms over salvage. It is by far the most worthless thing in this game. Yet people storm in here all huff-and-puff like salvage prices are what drive the economy. They demand the Devs "fix" the system and prevent flippers for "exploiting" the casual players. Who are these casual players that are being exploited? Who's out there saying "damn, I wish I didn't have to save up for that Al Silver I need". If this guy exists, how on earth is he going to manage paying the crafting cost? Is there really people out there who are determined to use crafted IOs that have 0 inf to their name? Why aren't these people using SOs? Those are fixed price and have no wait times involved at all. Why are they sitting at the market pondering the price of salvage instead of going out and playing the game? And why, oh please tell me why, anyone deserves to get exactly what they want, the moment they want it. "I want a house! Someone go build me a house for $5,000 because that's all I can afford! Do it NOW! Kgo! - Oh, and make sure it has 6 bedrooms and a pool! I'm not taking any low end piece of crap! My $ is worth the same as your $!!" |
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No no, not at all. I'm just trying to explain that, in real life, market makers provide stability. When they stop participating, things go badly. And I can explain briefly what happened and why in the Flash Crash, but if you don't know or care, I can't convince you otherwise. It had nothing to do with a bear raid.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Seeing as you make a living at this, you should be familiar with
No but you just came on the boards and tried to tell people how appreciative they should be for your attempts to enrich yourself. |
Of course, flipping ice in this game isn't the same as market making.
Stephen Hawkings himself can't convince someone that the Earth goes around the sun on an internet forum!
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
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Ahhh eryq. You're an angry angry person aren't you? Its ok. There's programs for people like you |
Originally Posted by eryq2
I know how you can start saving at least $15. a month to go towards you a home.....
|
Quote:
Yes but you aren't Milton Friedman, and I'm not Adam Smith. Anyway market makers and specialist firms provide stability when they feel its in their interest to do so.|
Originally Posted by Yomo_Kimyata
No no, not at all. I'm just trying to explain that, in real life, market makers provide stability. When they stop participating, things go badly. And I can explain briefly what happened and why in the Flash Crash, but if you don't know or care, I can't convince you otherwise. It had nothing to do with a bear raid.
Of course, flipping ice in this game isn't the same as market making. Stephen Hawkings himself can't convince someone that the Earth goes around the sun on an internet forum! |
Its pretty clear what happened in the flash crash, you had a low latency trader that managed to set off an exponential price decay in the shares of the 500 largest companies in the U.S. economy. The market makers decided it was better to get out of the way, and let the fall hit stop loss orders.
The question is was it deliberate on the part of the people that started it ? Well you are planning to sell a large volume of X anything you can either have your strategy to sell less as your sales cause price declines or you can sell more as the price declines. You don't have to be Milton Friedman or Adam Smith to figure out the effect of either strategy.
When you program your strategy into the financial equivalent of a BOLO and allow it to act as your agent executing trades with times measured in mili seconds, it can very easily wreak havoc.
You can go back to the use of Super Dot and the crash of 87 to see the problems that this can and does cause.
flipping salvage is a great tool for learning about market forces, but it's a horrendously inefficient way to build a fortune. Not saying it can't be done, but it would take a lot more work and a lot more time than many other strategies.
It's like crafting commons- sure theres inf to be made, but it's more of a community service to the playerbase than an eeebil scheme to fill up your swimming pool with doubloons.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
It's a matter of perspective. My ss/fire brute in his mid levels financed his build of Crushing Impacts and commons in the low 30s (on the redside market, no less) by flipping ancient bones in a bound of 1500 to 25000. That was only a week or so of work.
If you don't need a lot of money, flipping will provide you all the money you need.
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Nope, not at all. It's funny how quick you guys are to call me out, BUT ok to blast anyone else that has a different opinion than you all. Read the post you left. Sounds oh so much more angry than any of mine. Notice all the ****** words? Nice way to sound so condescending to anyone that don't do as you think. Kinda hypocritical if i do say so myself.
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Originally Posted by Misaligned
Ahhh eryq. You're an angry angry person aren't you? Its ok. There's programs for people like you
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You know, condescending language is only a problem when the person receiving it doesn't deserve it.
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Noone is better than anyone else. Believe that.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
You know, condescending language is only a problem when the person receiving it doesn't deserve it.
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Stupid people "a myth!" details at 11!
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Originally Posted by eryq2
Noone is better than anyone else. Believe that.
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Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
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The mere fact you say so is enough reason for me to be certain it's not true. Ten seconds of googling serves to earn me ten thousand different proofs of that. |
Originally Posted by eryq2
Noone is better than anyone else. Believe that.
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It's rare to have bigfoot tell you that bigfoots don't exist.
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Coming from a couple of people in here, i'll take that as a compliment in comparison...
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
The mere fact you say so is enough reason for me to be certain it's not true. Ten seconds of googling serves to earn me ten thousand different proofs of that.
It's rare to have bigfoot tell you that bigfoots don't exist. |
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this is true, it's a handy way to make a quick couple of million for characters who don't want the moon.
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Originally Posted by Talen Lee
If you don't need a lot of money, flipping will provide you all the money you need. |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
so you're no better than Charles Manson?|
Originally Posted by eryq2
Noone is better than anyone else. Believe that.
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Much is explained!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
Wait.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
this is true, it's a handy way to make a quick couple of million for characters who don't want the moon.
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wait a minute.
Are you saying there are people who don't want all the money in the world?
Preposterous.
Eryq,
You sound like you feel that people are persecuting you. I don't see it, but I believe your feelings! Your feelings are important and valid!
Do you want a hug?
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erm, I'm not going to bother telling you where and how often you are wrong. Send me a PM and I'll be happy to work you past your random samplings of Investopedia.com|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Yes but you aren't Milton Friedman, and I'm not Adam Smith. Anyway market makers and specialist firms provide stability when they feel its in their interest to do so.
Its pretty clear what happened in the flash crash, you had a low latency trader that managed to set off an exponential price decay in the shares of the 500 largest companies in the U.S. economy. The market makers decided it was better to get out of the way, and let the fall hit stop loss orders. The question is was it deliberate on the part of the people that started it ? Well you are planning to sell a large volume of X anything you can either have your strategy to sell less as your sales cause price declines or you can sell more as the price declines. You don't have to be Milton Friedman or Adam Smith to figure out the effect of either strategy. When you program your strategy into the financial equivalent of a BOLO and allow it to act as your agent executing trades with times measured in mili seconds, it can very easily wreak havoc. You can go back to the use of Super Dot and the crash of 87 to see the problems that this can and does cause. |
hint: you are wrong a lot. Both in frequency and amount. Seriously, send me a PM and I think I can help you understand some things.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a *real* useful invention. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...t-sarcasm.html
the comedic prospect of AF lecturing on IRL finance is ALMOST enticement enough to take him off ignore....
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Oh wait, I DO do this for a living. Let me repeat the phrase that demonstrates the lack of flippers to stabilize: "In other words, the lack of buyers and the rapid selling of E-Mini futures contracts began to affect the underlying stocks and the broader stock indexes. "
I don't come to [YOUR PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT] and tell you how wrong you are at [CLEVER INNUENDO THAT INSINUATES YOU DO SOMETHING DEGRADING AND INSIGNIFICANT].
The selling was initially absorbed by "high frequency traders" and other buyers, the report said. But the algorithm responded to an rise in trading volume by increasing the number of E-mini sell orders it was feeding into the market.
A bear raid is a type of stock market strategy, where a trader (or group of traders) attempts to force down the price of a stock to cover a short position. The name is derived from the common use of 'bear' or bearish in the language of Market sentiment to reflect the idea that investors expect downward price movement. A bear raid can can be done by spreading negative rumors about the target firm, which puts downward pressure on the share price. This may be a form of securities fraud. Alternatively, traders could take on large short positions themselves, with the large volume of selling ideally causing the price to fall, making the strategy self perpetuating.