Are too many sequels killing video gaming?


Acemace

 

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Originally Posted by Vitality View Post
I'm telling you...if you're a fan of football and a fan of playing madden...you will know that the game is much more than just a roster update.
If you're a football fan, you'd be playing FIFA, not Madden...


 

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Originally Posted by PhroX View Post
If you're a football fan, you'd be playing FIFA, not Madden...
lolz fifa


 

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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
example: while Halo has been a enjoyable series imo, their ODST prequel was rather lackluster and left a bitter taste because it was so short and really didn't offer anything new for it's price tag...luckily for Bungie, Halo:Reach has been a huge success.
I wish I hadn't've added to their success. Such a regretted purchase Reach has been. The best thing I can say about it, is at least there weren't any Flood in it.


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This seems like as good a place as any to post this:

Something occurred to me recently. I've sort of fallen out of love with videogames. There's a bunch of reasons for this; fewer friends interested in them to share the experience with, being banned from discussing them on one of my favorite social boards, a decline in Japan's industry that was what I originally loved, a lack of exciting original mechanics, and a shift from the exotic fantastic towards modern realistic simulations are among the many factors.

One game recently, who's subtitle is an anagram for Mother made me realize part of what's really killing games for me: aiming. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good shooter and aiming properly is a fun game mechanic, but part of me realized every game is essentially a variation on lining up cross-hairs with the right stick and pulling the trigger. The Mother game has some notable flaws, but there's a moment early in the game where I'm running down a hallway firing shots that automatically go where they need to where I realize that a game can be fun and challenging without manual aim from a behind the back/first person perspective.

I really think that's what's drained my love of gaming. It's not the sequels; its that every game, not just those within the same franchise or even genre have exploited a single mechanic to the point where nearly every game has started to feel like a rehash to some degree.


 

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I think a lot of it depends on "why" there is a sequel in the first place. Is it just a continuation of the original story that the developers were time-crunched over and had to trim out (Halo 2 and 3, for example)? Did the sequel come out fairly soon after the previous game, or was there a reasonable amount of time between them? Is it because the technology exists to "do the game the way it was meant to be", like making the game for a new console generation?

Honestly, I think there's room for sequels. Generally, they keep development costs down by using a lot of the same resources. Many stories in original games lend themselves to sequels because there's a lot of loose threads, or minor characters that could have their own story told. I don't think any developer thinks that their game's life is done, even if they hadn't planned for a sequel or two. There's always something more to add, or more features that either couldn't be done at the time or there wasn't time for. They also provide revenue for more original stuff, so that's always good too.


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Mediocrity and appealing to the lowest common denominator is what's killing video gaming.


Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!

 

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I think this is question #2.

Question #1 is: Are video games dying?

And the answer is "No".


 

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Hell, video games are flourishing. They're getting better and better and better. There are stinkers here and there, but compare them to movies, where it seems like there are way more stinkers than keepers. Of course, I could be just biased.

Yeah, some people are old fogeys, saying "[NES/SNES/Sega/Atari game] was better than any of this crap, and cheaper to make too!" To which I have to say "And guess what, those that weren't alive then, who grew up poor, or who just plain didn't have access to them, can play them now too." Re-releases, plus the modern stuff too? Win and win for everyone!

It's a great time to be a gamer.


 

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Some sequels are good, then sometimes you get a sequel like KOTOR II or Bioshock 2 that seem to exist for the sole reason of getting a quick cash grab.


 

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Originally Posted by That_Ninja View Post
Some sequels are good, then sometimes you get a sequel like KOTOR II or Bioshock 2 that seem to exist for the sole reason of getting a quick cash grab.
eh, kotor 2 had a lot going for it, id call it mechanically superior to 1, but lucasarts pushed it out before it was ready.


 

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Originally Posted by Nightphall View Post
Well it certainly isn't about "Quality not Quantity" anymore......

Sequels in movies usually "kill" them when the 3rd movie hits in most cases, especially when it comes to superhero movies.

X3: The Last Stand

Spider-Man 3

Blade Trilogy

Batman Forever (I expect an argument about this one)

Superman III

Am I forgetting any?
Oh like horror movies are any better in their 3rd edition.

Jaws 3d and Friday the 13th 3d come to mind, and that was in the 80's.

How about Star Trek 3?

Rambo 3?

Terminator 3?

Aliens 3?

The 3rd movie is awful, and I think they do that on purpose.


 

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Halloween 3 (Yes I'm aware that the series was originally intended as a bunch of different stories, but the WTFness of the third movie still stands)


 

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Saw III.

I'll go to fisticuffs with anyone that tries to write off the Saw series. I love it and analyze it a lot more than most people. That being said, I refuse to ever watch the 3rd one again. I hated it. Just made notes on what plot points would carry through, memorized those, then went to hypnotherapy to forget the rest.


 

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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
Halloween 3 (Yes I'm aware that the series was originally intended as a bunch of different stories, but the WTFness of the third movie still stands)
Oddly I liked the differences in Halloween 3 versus the first two. I was not fond of the original story lines, and they helped scar me in regards to hospitals.


 

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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
Saw III.

I'll go to fisticuffs with anyone that tries to write off the Saw series. I love it and analyze it a lot more than most people. That being said, I refuse to ever watch the 3rd one again. I hated it. Just made notes on what plot points would carry through, memorized those, then went to hypnotherapy to forget the rest.
gonna watch Saw 3D then I assume? ;D


 

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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
gonna watch Saw 3D then I assume? ;D
Very excited about it, but very curious.

There's really not much more to the story than for the last remaining survivors to slap each other silly and call it a day. We were heavily led to believe that there are no more Jigsaw traps. Every character alive utterly hates each other.... that's it.

Beyond all of them having a Matrix style epic battle and then calling it a day, I'm confused as to how they are planning to make a full length movie out of it.


 

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I tend think sequels have every bit as much purpose as new IPs do. Some games don't quite hit their sweet spot till second or third game. Sure there's game that take steps backward because the developers are trying hard to keep the series from being stagnate. Make it too much the same and people will be up in arms about it. Change too much you get back lash as the game doesn't feel like the same series anymore. It's a tough line to walk.


I think one of the biggest gripes I have is games trying mix too many genres together AKA sandbox games. Don't get me wrong as some games placing them into big expansive 3D worlds was the next step and worked great such as Zelda: ocarina of time. Other series have been perfected in 2D such as megaman, mario, castlevania and shine the most there.

Games of yesterday had tech limitations and had to pick a strength. Some times they would turn limits into a unique gameplay mechanic. Such as Bionic commando focused on swinging around rather than jumping since you couldn't fit any more buttons on a NES controller. Silent Hill put fog in it's backguards to hide some of the graphical weakness which made the game spookier. Games would pick a strength and do it well as they could.

Current games have a bad habit of watering down genres such as survival horror and stealth games. In both you would be inept in combat because it would force you to avoid trouble , conserve resources and use stealth. Now both have more or less mutated into 3D action games.(such as metal gear and Resident Evil.) I mean who doesn't want a character who can duke it out with everything on screen with no qualms. Sorry for giving people a different type of challenge besides mauling everything insight.

I don't see sequels being the problem. I have more of a problem that people started putting graphics before game play.(thanks final fantasy 7.) Flash before substance. They've turned gaming into T ball where everyone wins. Heaven forbid people actually get stuck in a game and...GASP have to learn new tactics and tricks besides button mashing through everything. And developers just making massive games that try do everything but excell at nothing. (see brutal legend.) Those are much bigger beefs in my mind than sequels.



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Originally Posted by That_Ninja View Post
Some sequels are good, then sometimes you get a sequel like KOTOR II or Bioshock 2 that seem to exist for the sole reason of getting a quick cash grab.
KOTOR 2 had a lot more going for it than the first one.


Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!

 

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Originally Posted by Marcian Tobay View Post
The article fails to establish that sequels are anything more detrimental than personally annoying to them. Some sequels are good, some are bad. Some original titles are good, some are bad. The OP fails to make a case that a bad product can be linked to sequels. The shovelware on the Wii is all "original".

I don't see a real case here.
Look a good game is a good game. Just because it's in the same IP as a previous game has no bearing on weather or not the game is made well, wether it's fun has good graphics, sound, design , story etc. In fact, I'd say sequels are great in games because if it's a good game. They can often use it as a platform to make the next game, and give themselves a leg up.

IE use the engine, the mechanics, physics, graphics etc, so that when they make the sequel, they have these things in place, and can focus more on fine tuning mechanics, game play, new ideas and story etc.

Now Madden is actually a great case for this. I did some accounting work a few years back and EA was a client and long story short, we had interviews with some of EAs developers on several games including madden. Madden is a game where every year, they build on what came the year before, to improve it, make it better etc. Madden as of 08, still had pieces of madden 93 in it. I'm not kidding about that, that's straight from the Dev's mouths. Madden 08 was built with programming that had been in all the games from 93 on.

So in this case, Madden every year, gets a little better because instead of building something completely new every time, they improve upon the existing, already successfull game and make it better. In this way, video game sequels are iterative and make for better games in the IP as it goes on, if it's handled right.

Also, companies are probably more inclined to spend more money on proven titles like Halo and Madden, and that's when companies have the cash to start pushing the envelope, inventing new tech etc, pushing things forward, as opposed to unknown games with smaller budgets. Those games make technological leaps so other games can progress too.


That being said, I'm not a fan of Madden, and though it is more than a roster update every year, they really are just literally making the same game with a few new bells and whistles year after year since 93.


"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" - The Joker

 

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I always thought it was obvious why Madden is so popular.

It not only has the pure gamer culture playing it, it has the sports fans who buy the systems, just to play the the Madden games.

Maybe it's just me living ina smaller area now, but there's still a lot out there who look at some of the fantasy setting games and go "to cool for that" but make it a sports game and it's okay!

Maybe they'll make exceptions for a few games, like Halo. But it'll always come back to those sports games.

I've worked with quite a few, and to them, the new Madden game is the only game they really look forward to picking up at the local Gamestop.


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Originally Posted by BlackArachnia View Post
Oh like horror movies are any better in their 3rd edition.
Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness!

And eh, sequels are usually fine by me. The ones that are detrimental to the series instead of adding something are usually pretty obvious.


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Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
I can't wait for Mortal Kombat 9
The game? Or the movie?


 

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Originally Posted by BrandX View Post
Maybe they'll make exceptions for a few games, like Halo.
They DO make an exception for Halo.

Though the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare games are even bigger sellers for the "frat boy" demographic.


 

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Originally Posted by Kelenar View Post
Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness!

And eh, sequels are usually fine by me. The ones that are detrimental to the series instead of adding something are usually pretty obvious.
Evil Dead II was not a true sequel. It was a reshooting of the same movie. It was also not very scary outside of his wife popping up right outside the window after dancing with her head.

Evil Dead III, (God I know this will be an unpopular statement) was not a horror movie. It was a bad comedy. Yes there were some funny scenes, but it was so far removed from the original Evil Dead, I could barely place the two. Let's just consider Evil Dead III a sequel to Evil Dead II and ignore it as a trilogy.

Over all, I did not like II or III, but I found III to be worse than II. Just my point of view.


 

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Originally Posted by Nightphall View Post
We all remember the amount of towns that were in Final Fantasy VII. Yet, there weren't really any to be seen in XIII, and Square admitted that a lot of content (like an entire games worth of bonus dungeons) was cut from XIII to get it to be able to fit on the 360. Hence, no towns.

If they didn't create one town for XIII, I doubt they'd create 10+ towns in a VII remake.
Perhaps if they had focused more on gameplay than "oh pretty graphics" they'd have had enough room.